cyclic olivia

[rrwoods]

I temporarily gain control of my opponent's Olivia Voldaren (e.g., via Threaten). I target Olivia with her own control-changing ability. The temporary effect granting me control wears off (e.g., the turn ends). Do I still control Olivia?

[MopDa]

------------------------------------Default Controller*
          ----------------          Threaten
                     ---------------Olivia control

*Default Controller - Player under whose control creature enters the battlefield

I imagine it to myself as showed above. As all control-changing effects are in the same layer, timestamps define the result. With Olivia (self-)control had already overwritten Threaten effect, game machine won't even notice Threaten control-changing effect vanished (in terms of controlling)

[Yamikiri]

Even though Threaten returns control at the end of the turn, there is another control effect still active, the one that you controlled when you activated Olivia's effect. For as long as you control Olivia, you control Olivia. It's the only control effect still active, so it's the only one that continues to apply.

[MopDa]

Originally Posted by Yamikiri

Threaten returns control

I must point out that it doesn't literally "return control", it just ceases to apply

[rrwoods]

Hmm, ok.

I asked the question because I thought I might get responses like that, but my interpretation is that you go through the layers starting from a clean slate each time.

So when only Threaten is active, you apply Threaten and have control of Olivia.

When both are applying, you apply Threaten and Olivia, and have control of Olivia.

When Threaten's effect ends, you check whether to apply Olivia, and can't, because you don't control Olivia.

[Kahedron]

Yamikiri has the correct answer. When you activate olivia's ability targetting her self you add a new layer of control ontop of that of threaten.

As you are the controller of olivia when you activate her ability the you in the ability will always refer to you not not your opponent so once the turn ends the fact that threaten's effect would end it is irrelevant.

[Nalianna]

but if somehow you lose control of olivia, then, you will lose control of olivia?

If opponent Charlie (in a 3+ player game) threatens her (but doesn't activate her ability).

where will she go then?

[_]

Originally Posted by Nalianna

but if somehow you lose control of olivia, then, you will lose control of olivia?

If opponent Charlie (in a 3+ player game) threatens her (but doesn't activate her ability).

where will she go then?

Original controller. As the control changing effect has now ended because you lost control of her.

[azngenius]

Originally Posted by _

Original controller. As the control changing effect has now ended because you lost control of her.

Incorrect. Control effects never disappear unless something makes them disappear. They're simply written over. They still exist.

Here's what happens with Olivia:

- First, you cast Threaten 1. The Threaten-1 control effect is the topmost control effect, so it is the one that matters. You can gain control of Olivia.
- Then, you activate her ability. The Olivia control effect is now the topmost control effect, and it says you control Olivia. No change in control, obv.
- Then, the Threaten-1 control effect ends. This doesn't affect what is the topmost control effect (still Olivia), so nothing changes.
- Then, Charlie casts Threaten-2. The Threaten-2 control is now the topmost control effect, so Charlie controls Olivia.
- Then, the Threaten-2 control effect ends. What's underneath? The Olivia control effect! The one that says you control Olivia. So you hooray, you control Olivia!

[Kahedron]

Originally Posted by azngenius

Incorrect. Control effects never disappear unless something makes them disappear. They're simply written over. They still exist.

Here's what happens with Olivia:

He was correct Olivia's control change ability has a duration of for as long as you control Olivia herself. The instant she changes controller the control change effect the OP used to keep her is going to end so when the clean up step rolls round she will go to her original controller.

[azngenius]

Erp. Didn't read Olivia. Sorr!