Deck History
I have been playing this deck sense early 2008 and have really learned the ins and out of how it works and the general idea behind the deck. I first made the deck as kind of a joke but after a lot of testing it has really become a very powerful combo type deck. My version now is built to be a little more resilient due to the amount of hate that it generally draws at my LGS, so I typically win around turn 6ish. If it was built more for speed it would typically go off on turn 4-5, but is not able to recover as fast from disruption. The deck is supposed to be very competitive and I have run it in a number of side events at PTQ and a few GPs with a pretty good win ratio. It is geared more towards multiplayer but is fast enough against most 1v1 decks that don't have a lot of early counters, Hinder and Spell Crumple are about the only things that slow the deck down which is why there are many tutors. Also, if using the french ban list play Emrakul, the Aeons Torn over Concordant Crossroads. I will go into more detail about options and builds after the deck list.
In the deck's early stages I was running a lot less lands like around 45 but after playing the deck for a little while I came to the realization that the deck was not really a standard "play big green dudes" deck like Omnath, Locus of Mana or Asuza, Lost but Seeking. The Deck felt like it really want to be a straight up combo deck so i started to go through a lot of deck analysis and trying different things. When building this deck and making card decisions the most important thing to remember is that if it doesn't win you the game or put lands in your hand it might as well be a land. This holds pretty true for pretty much the entire deck. So with that idea in mind I started tuning the deck to be a fast combo deck. With the current land count you will be drawing lands the majority of the time which factors into a lot of the timing when trying to set up a winning turn. I also feel that there are only a few really good win conditions so I only run a few but am packing a lot more tutors to get to the best win conditions. Right now I am running 59 lands but to be honest I feel that 61 is really the right number but I am testing a few cards so am waiting to see if 59 is consistent enough.
Why Play Sasaya?
"59 lands? That seems terrible, Trees." Well sure normally 59 lands would seem pretty terrible but in this type of deck it is exactly what you want. Hold judgment until you have seen the deck in action, more detail on exactly how the deck work in the next section. First, why would you want to play this deck?
Pros
-If you love combo decks that go "all in" then this is about as all in as you can get.
-Like playing storm or Eggs, every card in the deck is there to help you combo off with the bare minimum of disruption.
-You love winning with cards that are a little off the wall (Cards like Sprouting Vines are your best combo enablers).
-You love green but are tired of Primeval Titan.
-Sometimes you just want a quick game.
-You love tool box style decks.
-People don't think the deck will do anything so is great for tournaments.
-You just want a different experience when playing EDH every now and then.
-You can win a game within the first few turns.
-Swinging for 90 damage on turn 5 makes you feel like a big man.
Cons
-If you get into a long game you have few ways to keep pressure on and just have to wait and see if you can combo off.
-Hinder on your general is REALLY bad for you.
-Few answers if you don't win early (Nullmage Shepherd is the only answer you will ever need and have).
-When I say "all in" I mean it.
Philosophies
-You don't always want to hit every land drop. If missing your 3rd or 4th land drop allows you to play and flip your general the next turn then it is worth it even if it means discarding a spell. Just don't discard the spell that will win you the game, lol.
-If you have Sasaya out you should have about 25 mana on turn 5, then 36 on turn 6, 49 on turn 7 just to put things in perspective,... unless you hit Journey of discovery, Rites of flourishing, or things like that.
-After years of play testing and a lot of tweaking I have found that about 60 lands is the most optimal. 63 is a little to much, but you need a lot of lands in order to be able to assume that you will most often draw them. Many time you will have 6 lands and a win condition/tutor and you have to rely on drawing a land to win.
-You have to run an obscene number of lands or the deck is just not consistent enough to go off reliably. If it doesn't win you the game or gets you a land it might as well just be a land.
-The deck runs a very small amount of removal, basically Nullmage shepherd or Masticore will deal with most things that would prevent you from winning.
-Use cards like Abundance, Sprouting vines, or Yavimaya elder to set up a winning turn. Instant speed land tutoring spells are really good.
-It's best to keep your win conditions as creatures to keep the deck more consistent. I only run 3 real win conditions (Kamahl and masticore are more utility/wincons) because its hard to be consistent with a lot of sub par wincons it's best just to run more tutors.
-The deck runs 9 creature tutors and some non-basic land search so parts of the deck can play like a toolbox. If you have some special cards that you love as a win condition then you have plenty of ways to utilize them.
-If people try and destroy your general in response to flipping her then you just reveal again (people always try this when they first see her). If they try and destroy her as an enchantment you can just float a lot of mana and re-cast her, most of the time you should have ways to use that mana and get more lands to make sure you can flip her.
Analysis
Not a bad opening hand and pretty good draws but a little too many spells. Weird Harvest can be a little risky if you know that some people are packing creature counters or something that might wreck your plans, but you can always Harvest for one more and get Eternal Witness or Nullmage Sheppard. Often Masticore or Kamahl are you go to cards. If you are worried about getting wrathed you can get Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and leave some mana open to turn their lands into creatures. If not Nemata, Grove Guardian is probably your best one card win condition.
T1: Draw Slippery Karst, play land then pass.
T2: Draw Forest, play land, pass.
T3: Draw Forest, Play land pass.
T4: Draw Sprouting Vines, play land, play Abundance. Pass.
T5: Chose to draw non land, get Worldly Tutor, play land then pass. Play Sprouting Vines if two spells are played to get 3 lands.
T6: Chose to draw a land, get a Forest. Play Sasaya, reveal hand of 6x Forests, Slippery Karst, Wolfbriar Elemental, Seek the Horizon, Worldly Tutor. She Flips. Play a land tap 3 lands for 18 mana, play Wolfbriar Elemental to get 14 2/2 tokens. Pass.
The next turn you can just chose to draw a non-land and hope to get something good. Play your land, tap for 49 (you have 7 forest that all tap for 7 each) Worldly Tutor for Kamahl, cycle Slippery Karst to draw Kamahl, play him and Overrun with your 40 left over mana to make your 14 2/2 wolves into 26/26 wolves with trample (364 damage on turn 7). But if someone wraths after you make all your wolves on T6 you can still hope to draw something good with Abundance on your turn and Worldly Tutor and Slippery Karst for Kamahl if you fear a board wipe or get Nemata.
This hand was pretty slow there were no plays before turn 4 which was sad and I drew a ton of lands but I guess it turned out ok. Abundance is really good for oblivious reasons and Seek the Horizon can get a lot of lands if need be but I ended up drawing a lot of land so it was unnecessary. Not a bad hand but having some earlier plays is nice.
Card Choices Lands Blasted Landscape, Slippery Karst, Tranquil Thicket: Useful for emptying your hand after you flip the Sasaya to get something more useful. Dark Depths: Can be fetched with Expedition Map and Sylvan Scrying (if you want to run it) and can work as a win con if you cant find a creature. Dryad Arbor: Can be tutored as a creature if you really need a land in your hand to flip your general. Haunted Fengraf: Can randomly get a card back, worst case scenario it gets a Yavimaya Elder back but either way all its targets are good for you. High Market: Sometimes can be useful to save your key creatures from exile type removal. Maze of Ith: Super good defense, to good not to play. This can help you survive into the late game if I cant seem to keep your general on the table. Reliquary Tower: Helpful when you want to keep things in your hand but need to keep lands in your hand to flip your general. Scrying Sheets: Helps get more lands in your hand. Strip Mine: There are few lands that can really prevent you from winning but staring down a Glacial Chasm is just the worst. With FTV: Realms out I have been seeing Chasm a lot so I decided to start packing this card again just in case. Terrain Generator: Helps power out lands after you flip your general, but be careful if you are expecting that your general will die.
Land Fetch Abundance: Great for getting lands when you need it or non-lands when you don't Armillary Sphere, Horizon Spellbomb, Journeyer's Kite, Krosan Tusker, Realms Uncharted, Sprouting Vines, and Yavimaya Elder: Land fetch at instant speed is invaluable in this deck. It allows you to set up for the turn you play your general and win. Usually get the cycle lands with Realms and some utility land like Dark Depths. Cultivate and Kodama's Reach: Small ramp while still putting a land into your hand. Expedition Map: Instant speed land fetch while getting a good utility land. Journey of Discovery, Mulch, Seek the Horizon, and Gaea's Bounty: Big land tutors are super good. Journey also allows you to ramp latter. Sylvan Library: Much better then Sensei's Divining Top because it is free and will allow you to put more cards in your hand. Top will make you want to put 4 lands out so you can use all your 3 mana land tutors and still use top which can put you a turn behind playing your general. Not, that it still is not good just not as good as Library. Harmonize: Good green draw is hard to come by. Life From the Loam: Amazing ways to get land into your hand, better if you run a bunch of fetches like Misty Rainforest, Verdant Catacombs, etc. Rites of Flourishing: Draw an extra card and can play an extra land when you want to. Magus of the Library: Basically lets you draw an extra card and set up a winning turn with 7 lands in hand Scroll Rack: Great, lets you dig a little deeper in the deck.
Azuza, lost but seeking: great if you are building for speed, can empty your lands a little too quick incase there is a board wipe it will take you longer to flip the general again, besides you already make stupid mana. Still, great if you are aggressive. Panglacial Wurm: good if you really want a beater but all you have with Sasaya flipped is land fetch in your hand Nantuko Cultivator: A decent way to empty your hand of lands after you flip your general. I'm not a big fan of him, you don't always want to just empty your hand in case someone destroys your general. I feel that you might as well just run a tutor so you can just get what you want. Verdant Catacombs , Misty Rainforest, etc.: basically any and all on color fetches, even the slow Alara fetch lands, if you want more fuel for life from the loam , can even run Lodestone Bauble if you go this route Hurricane and Squall Line: If you want to just kill the whole table this is fine , but using a creature to win is best as you have many ways to tutor for them and only Planar portal to tutor for anything else. Centaur Glade : Good win con, but again you cant really tutor for it. Living Wish: Pretty good utility. You can run a lot of silver bullets, an extra win condition, or even a land in a pinch. Not necessary but can be great in a diverse meta where you need more options. Spawnsire of Ulamog : Similar to wish, it became a little worse after Emrakul, the Aeons Torn got the axe, still good as a one card win condition if you don't mind running a sideboard. Genesis: Really good, great if you are running Weird harvest so you can recover if someone grabs a Bloodfire Colossus or some kind of creature based board wipe. With Nostalgic dreams and Eternal witness I haven't really needed anymore recursion but he is the next best if you want more resilience. Vedalken Orrery: Can do some crazy tricks with this, like playing your general before your turn and then just winning before anyone gets a chance to wrath. Also, allows you to play more of your land fetch and not worry about hand size. Probably not worth it though. Sylvan Scrying: Good if you value your nonbasic lands a lot, but as a one-for-one it does not really help your clock. Helix Pinnacle : Probably the best card if you want a win con that's not a creature, hitting 100 counters is really easy. It still falls in the category of "hard to tutor for". Earthcraft:can make infinite mana with any token maker really easy, but the deck already makes TONS of mana as it is so its not really worth the spot. You could run this with Rocket Launcher for the lols. Time of Need: Good tutor, if you run this play Verdeloth the Ancient over Wolfbriar. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn: Legal in 1v1 so if you are play with the 1v1 ban list run him over Concordant Crossroads. Font of Mythos, Howling Mine: These cards can be good. Rites of Flourishing is similar but the added ablitity to play an extra land puts it way above these 2. Still they are both pretty good, not to mention the politics of the cards are valuable too. Horn of Greed: Good card that lets you keep your tempo but I'm not sure if is better then other cards in the deck.
All-star Cards and Good Synergies
-If you cast Genesis wave then you really just win. Realistically when you cast it you will be casting it for 30 or more. you should hit Eternal witness or Citanul Flute/Planar portal to get Witness to cast Genesis wave again. All the lands from the first Wave come into play untapped which will allow every land to tap for 49 each (about 2500 mana) then you just make some tokens, over run 50 times with Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, blow up everyone's lands with Kamhl/Masticore, doesn't really matter, everything will have haste from Concordant Crossroads so you just win.
-Tooth and Nail just wins. Cast it, get Eternal witness and Seedborn muse. Cast Tooth and Nail again, get Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Masticore. Blow up everyone's lands during their upkeep.
-Nemata, Grove Guardian is your #1 stand alone win condition. Make an army and on your next turn swing and make more tokens to sacrifice so the rest become huge.
-If you have Seedborn muse and Journeyer's kite don't be afraid to hit your 5th land drop, this engine gets really dumb.
Budget Build
This deck is pretty easy to build on a budget. My build runs a lot of tutors and less win conditions so that I am only playing the best win conditions that the colors have to offer. When building on a budget I would suggest just cutting some of the tutors and just running more win conditions and a few more lands in place of so other more expensive. I know that Tooth and Nail can be a little pricey but I left it in just because of how powerful the card is. As always these are just suggestions and you should always make some changes for your own meta.
5/12/2012-added the shell section and a few more possible inclusions
6/8/2012-making it prettier, adding some stuff to options.
6/16/2012-Added reasons for card choices.
6/18/2012- Out: Rowen, Forest, Green Sun's Zenith
In: Weird Harvest, Magus of the Library, Sylvan Library
7/10/2012- Finally getting around to updating and buffing up the guide to try and get primer status. Overhauled a lot of the sections and added a lot of new sections. Much more explanations about how the deck works and strategies behind the deck.
7/13/2012- added some more cards to the possible choices and cleaned up some other sections.
9/9/2012- Out: Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Snow-Covered Forest
In: Haunted Fengraf, Strip Mine
Any suggestions on how to make the Primer better, personal experience with the deck, card choices, or any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!
cultivate and Kodama's Reach are both in the deck and are star players. Collective Voyage is ok, i tried it and it is good if you run more fatties and disruption but the deck already blows other decks out of the water with so much mana you don't need to help every one else. It can be a good idea to just play it for like 40 and empty your deck of basics but then you have a lot of dead basic land fetch cards, which is ok if you have your gas already. Also, if your play group runs any mass land destruction you just straight lose. But, it is a fun card that feels great if your meta allows you to run it. Baloth Woodcrasher is just a beater and the deck opporates much better with creatures thta have mana sinks like token makers. Explosive Vegetation does not work in this deck, you need land in your hand to flip your general which gives you much more mana.
@azncbc1992 Azuza, lost but seeking can be very powerful in this deck, the only down side is that she can empty your hand a little too quick. my build is built for maximum consistency. In most metas people will probably be packing some enchantment hate, most of the time the deck is fast enought to get around that but not all the time so you don't want to empty your hand of land to quick and risk not being able to flip your general for a long time. If you are running a really aggressive version of the deck and are playing the 1v1 banlist and can play Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and a few other more aggressive cards then Azuza, lost but seeking is a great card. I loved her a lot but burned more then once after a board wipe happened. Thanks for the suggestion i forgot to add her to the suggestions section.
Would it be useful to post a build for an aggressive version of the deck and a more resistant version? i know that my version has some meta calls but everyone operates in a different meta.
Constant Mists plays well with this deck as a hold against a failure to go off. Works well with Life From the Loam as well to ensure you can keep it up.
The deck is pretty aggro and is ment to be an all in combo deck. Usually you are able to win pretty quick so you really don't need to fog a big army. The deck also has only one tutor for non-creature spells and not a lot of straight draw power, not that you need it when one card wins the game. Constant mist could he good late game but if you haven't won by then you probably have worse problems then needing to fog. But if you really want a fog effect then I would suggest spore frog because you have a ton of tutors for him and is great with genesis. On the whole the deck should not be out aggrod but it can happen.
I suppose. I run a list that is very different than yours, but I've found Constant Mists in such a land-heavy deck is occasionally very useful. It's relevant against explosive starts and early threats, and late game pretty much requires a counter or you have a soft lock.
You're right in that it can be somewhat narrow and un-tutorable. On the other hand, I'm never unhappy to draw it - it pretty much ensures that short of a Counterspell, Wheel of Fortune, Mind Twist or Fireball, I can stall for time to reach my wincon.
Ya, I think if you are not building for speed it is a really good card, you will always have fuel for it. I'll add it to the possible inclusions section but I think its a little slow for my build, thanks for the input!
I felt that Boseiju was not really doing anything. If they had a counter they would have used it on your general and it comes into play tapped so I was not impressed. I like Fengraf as a cheap recurable way to get creatures back, even at random. There have been a few lands that have been giving me trouble lately, namely Glacial Chasm, so i decided to run it again.
There have not really been a ton of good stuff coming out lately for the deck. As a mono color deck I'm not sure if Rav will have anything spectacular cumming out but there is a chance so we will see.
What are your thoughts on using Hall of Gemstone to deter counters on your turn?
It's ok but I think I would rather run Dosan the Falling Leaf. Consistancy is really something that i think about in this deck. I run a lot of creature tutors so if i want to run an effect then i would rather have it on a creature. So far counters are the biggest issues that the deck runs into but most of the time the deck is so fast and explosive that i don't really worry about it.
At the risk of this post not getting seen as it's from almost 2 yrs ago, what are some thoughts on Caged Sun and Extraplanar Lens? Or are they too slow for this deck and how much mana it can already explosively generate?
Hello, I'm still here. I think that you don't really need Caged Sun and Extraplanar Lens, Sasaya gives you more then enough mana. I can see using them as a back up, but I was usually able to play and flip her on turn 4-5 and win that turn or the turn after.
Patron of the Orochi: good source of mana but you usually have plenty. Avenger of Zendikar: probably not explosive enough Night Soil[/card]:I'm not really worried about people's graveyard. Gelatinous Genesis: this is a pretty good instant army but probably not as good as Genesis Wave for an X spell. cards with Genesis Wave come into play untapped (i.e. all your lands) and you will probably hit another card that will let you make an army. You want to have your win conditions as creatures so you can tutor for them consistently. I'm running a small amount of win conditions supplemented by tutors because those creatures are the best and I want them above all others.
Token doublers: you should have more than enough tokens already.
Anthems: I ran a few at various points but decided that they were not that good. The deck is very fast and has no way to tutor for something other than lands or creatures so I felt that I never really saw them. Elfhame Sanctuary: this is a card I was not aware of and would probably be a good add.
I just got the deck completed and ran it for the first time tonight, it's definitely explosive, no doubt about it! I went a slightly different route than you, a few less tutors and some redundancy in wincons, still scary nonetheless.
I can see now that anything that generates one extra mana (caged sun, etc.) or token doublers are just unnecessary with how much mana Sasaya can dump out. I am currently using Snake Basket as another token maker though, it's not repeatable, but at a 1:1 mana:creature rate, it's a monster when it does go off. All that saved mana just means more Kamahl overruns 😃
That would be bad but the deck can usually generate enough mana to get pop Depths already. Although, if something goes wrong with Sasaya this could be a good combo.
@hwang24. I found that you need to think hard about playing lands, sometimes it is best to miss a land drop if that means you will have enough lands to flip Sasaya on the next turn. Looking at my list I realized I forgot Sensei's Divining Top which should be in the deck as well. I understand wanting more variety of win conditions and less tutors. I found that I got a little bored with going for the same win cons over and over again. It was more optimal but less fun. I was running 58 lands but I felt that the deck ran a little smother at around 60. Anything less than 55 and it becomes to risky to rely on consistently drawing a land to flip Sasaya.
That would be bad but the deck can usually generate enough mana to get pop Depths already. Although, if something goes wrong with Sasaya this could be a good combo.
@hwang24. I found that you need to think hard about playing lands, sometimes it is best to miss a land drop if that means you will have enough lands to flip Sasaya on the next turn. Looking at my list I realized I forgot Sensei's Divining Top which should be in the deck as well. I understand wanting more variety of win conditions and less tutors. I found that I got a little bored with going for the same win cons over and over again. It was more optimal but less fun. I was running 58 lands but I felt that the deck ran a little smother at around 60. Anything less than 55 and it becomes to risky to rely on consistently drawing a land to flip Sasaya.
Agreed, I really like this deck, I have a Child of Alara deck that runs 80 lands. Yes, 80, 19 are tutors, mana acceleration, scapeshift, and other win conditions with ad nauseum
Lair Delve could be good if the deck is at least 70% creatures & land.
Was also thinking Peregrination but the 4CC might be a little high on the curve.
Lair Delve could be good if the deck is at least 70% creatures & land.
Was also thinking Peregrination but the 4CC might be a little high on the curve.
If you have a good amount of lands or top manipulation going like, Sylvan Library, Top, Scroll Rack, or something else then I think Lair Delve could be very good. I think you are right about Peregrination. It seems fine but 4cc can be difficult if you want to play Sasaya on turn 4, flip her and then drop your land. It could still be pretty good, though.
I think it's really good in this deck. Gelatinous Genesis is great but because it is not a creature there are very few ways to tutor it. The hydra being a creature makes is significantly better, even though it will require more mana. I deck cranks out enough mana that spending the extra 6 is not terrible and the consistency of the card is much more important.
I have a Nemata,the Grove Guardian deck that is basically a mono-ramp/mana doubler deck. I am interested in switching it into this list. Trees, you have inspired me =)
@Trancekat, Thank you very much.
@akroma44, Candelabra of Tawnos would probably be pretty good, maybe a little unnecessary but good. Magus of the Candelabra being a creature would, for once in this deck, not be as good because of the inability to use it the turn you play. Illusionist's Bracers is probably not worth the spot. The deck needs to run an extremely high number of lands so card choice is crazy important. The bracers would work well in the deck but because they require other cards to function its difficult to make cuts for it, despite my personal affinity towards the card. If you are wanting to make the switch go for it. I really think it is an interesting deck that is unique in EDH. It really is a hard combo deck (like Goblin Charbelcher or Storm) so keep that in mind, some metas are pretty averse to to it and I have gotten some flack when going to different shops not used to it. Also, people really do not understand the deck so the first few times you play play it places people will probably be taken really off guard. If there is minimal disruption the deck can win turn 4-5 very consistently.
Deck History
I have been playing this deck sense early 2008 and have really learned the ins and out of how it works and the general idea behind the deck. I first made the deck as kind of a joke but after a lot of testing it has really become a very powerful combo type deck. My version now is built to be a little more resilient due to the amount of hate that it generally draws at my LGS, so I typically win around turn 6ish. If it was built more for speed it would typically go off on turn 4-5, but is not able to recover as fast from disruption. The deck is supposed to be very competitive and I have run it in a number of side events at PTQ and a few GPs with a pretty good win ratio. It is geared more towards multiplayer but is fast enough against most 1v1 decks that don't have a lot of early counters, Hinder and Spell Crumple are about the only things that slow the deck down which is why there are many tutors. Also, if using the french ban list play Emrakul, the Aeons Torn over Concordant Crossroads. I will go into more detail about options and builds after the deck list.
In the deck's early stages I was running a lot less lands like around 45 but after playing the deck for a little while I came to the realization that the deck was not really a standard "play big green dudes" deck like Omnath, Locus of Mana or Asuza, Lost but Seeking. The Deck felt like it really want to be a straight up combo deck so i started to go through a lot of deck analysis and trying different things. When building this deck and making card decisions the most important thing to remember is that if it doesn't win you the game or put lands in your hand it might as well be a land. This holds pretty true for pretty much the entire deck. So with that idea in mind I started tuning the deck to be a fast combo deck. With the current land count you will be drawing lands the majority of the time which factors into a lot of the timing when trying to set up a winning turn. I also feel that there are only a few really good win conditions so I only run a few but am packing a lot more tutors to get to the best win conditions. Right now I am running 59 lands but to be honest I feel that 61 is really the right number but I am testing a few cards so am waiting to see if 59 is consistent enough.
Why Play Sasaya?
"59 lands? That seems terrible, Trees." Well sure normally 59 lands would seem pretty terrible but in this type of deck it is exactly what you want. Hold judgment until you have seen the deck in action, more detail on exactly how the deck work in the next section. First, why would you want to play this deck?
Pros
-If you love combo decks that go "all in" then this is about as all in as you can get.
-Like playing storm or Eggs, every card in the deck is there to help you combo off with the bare minimum of disruption.
-You love winning with cards that are a little off the wall (Cards like Sprouting Vines are your best combo enablers).
-You love green but are tired of Primeval Titan.
-Sometimes you just want a quick game.
-You love tool box style decks.
-People don't think the deck will do anything so is great for tournaments.
-You just want a different experience when playing EDH every now and then.
-You can win a game within the first few turns.
-Swinging for 90 damage on turn 5 makes you feel like a big man.
Cons
-If you get into a long game you have few ways to keep pressure on and just have to wait and see if you can combo off.
-Hinder on your general is REALLY bad for you.
-Few answers if you don't win early (Nullmage Shepherd is the only answer you will ever need and have).
-When I say "all in" I mean it.
Philosophies
-You don't always want to hit every land drop. If missing your 3rd or 4th land drop allows you to play and flip your general the next turn then it is worth it even if it means discarding a spell. Just don't discard the spell that will win you the game, lol.
-If you have Sasaya out you should have about 25 mana on turn 5, then 36 on turn 6, 49 on turn 7 just to put things in perspective,... unless you hit Journey of discovery, Rites of flourishing, or things like that.
-After years of play testing and a lot of tweaking I have found that about 60 lands is the most optimal. 63 is a little to much, but you need a lot of lands in order to be able to assume that you will most often draw them. Many time you will have 6 lands and a win condition/tutor and you have to rely on drawing a land to win.
-You have to run an obscene number of lands or the deck is just not consistent enough to go off reliably. If it doesn't win you the game or gets you a land it might as well just be a land.
-The deck runs a very small amount of removal, basically Nullmage shepherd or Masticore will deal with most things that would prevent you from winning.
-Use cards like Abundance, Sprouting vines, or Yavimaya elder to set up a winning turn. Instant speed land tutoring spells are really good.
-It's best to keep your win conditions as creatures to keep the deck more consistent. I only run 3 real win conditions (Kamahl and masticore are more utility/wincons) because its hard to be consistent with a lot of sub par wincons it's best just to run more tutors.
-The deck runs 9 creature tutors and some non-basic land search so parts of the deck can play like a toolbox. If you have some special cards that you love as a win condition then you have plenty of ways to utilize them.
-If people try and destroy your general in response to flipping her then you just reveal again (people always try this when they first see her). If they try and destroy her as an enchantment you can just float a lot of mana and re-cast her, most of the time you should have ways to use that mana and get more lands to make sure you can flip her.
Sample Games
#1
Opening Hand
3x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Terrain Generator
1x Harmonize
1x Rites of Flourishing
1x Weird Harvest
T1: Draw Mulch, play Forest
T2: Draw Dryad Arbor, play Forest. Play Mulch, reveal Seek the Horizon, Realms Uncharted, Forest, Reliquary Tower. Take the Lands, discard, Dryad Arbor for turn, pass.
T3 : Draw Chord of Calling, play Reliquary Tower then Rites of Flourishing, pass
T4: Draw 2 Forest, play land then Harmonize, draw Primal Command, 3x Forest, pass.
T5: Draw 2 Forest, Play Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant, reveal hand of Terrain Generator, 7 Forest, Weird Harvest, Chord of Calling, Primal Command, she flips. Play 2 lands, tap for 15 mana, use Weird Harvest for 2 getting Seedborn Muse and Kamahl, Fist of Krosa. Play them with the remaining 11 mana. Pass. Untap during your opponents upkeep and Chord of Calling for Masticore, then destroy all of their lands with Masticore and Kamahl for the win.
Analysis
Not a bad opening hand and pretty good draws but a little too many spells. Weird Harvest can be a little risky if you know that some people are packing creature counters or something that might wreck your plans, but you can always Harvest for one more and get Eternal Witness or Nullmage Sheppard. Often Masticore or Kamahl are you go to cards. If you are worried about getting wrathed you can get Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and leave some mana open to turn their lands into creatures. If not Nemata, Grove Guardian is probably your best one card win condition.
#2
Opening Hand
4x Forest
1x Abundance
1x Wolfbriar Elemant
1x Seek the Horizon
T1: Draw Slippery Karst, play land then pass.
T2: Draw Forest, play land, pass.
T3: Draw Forest, Play land pass.
T4: Draw Sprouting Vines, play land, play Abundance. Pass.
T5: Chose to draw non land, get Worldly Tutor, play land then pass. Play Sprouting Vines if two spells are played to get 3 lands.
T6: Chose to draw a land, get a Forest. Play Sasaya, reveal hand of 6x Forests, Slippery Karst, Wolfbriar Elemental, Seek the Horizon, Worldly Tutor. She Flips. Play a land tap 3 lands for 18 mana, play Wolfbriar Elemental to get 14 2/2 tokens. Pass.
The next turn you can just chose to draw a non-land and hope to get something good. Play your land, tap for 49 (you have 7 forest that all tap for 7 each) Worldly Tutor for Kamahl, cycle Slippery Karst to draw Kamahl, play him and Overrun with your 40 left over mana to make your 14 2/2 wolves into 26/26 wolves with trample (364 damage on turn 7). But if someone wraths after you make all your wolves on T6 you can still hope to draw something good with Abundance on your turn and Worldly Tutor and Slippery Karst for Kamahl if you fear a board wipe or get Nemata.
This hand was pretty slow there were no plays before turn 4 which was sad and I drew a ton of lands but I guess it turned out ok. Abundance is really good for oblivious reasons and Seek the Horizon can get a lot of lands if need be but I ended up drawing a lot of land so it was unnecessary. Not a bad hand but having some earlier plays is nice.
My Current List
Deck by Function
1x Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant
Lands
47x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Blasted Landscape
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Haunted Fengraf
1x High Market
1x Maze of Ith
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Scrying Sheets
1x Slippery Karst
1x Strip Mine
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Terrain Generator
Utility
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Eternal Witness
1x Nostalgic Dreams
1x Nullmage Shepherd
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Abundance
1x Armillary Sphere
1x Cultivate
1x Expedition Map
1x Gaea's Bounty
1x Harmonize
1x Horizon Spellbomb
1x Journeyer's Kite
1x Journey of Discovery
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Krosan Tusker
1x Life From the Loam
1x Magus of the Library
1x Mulch
1x Realms Uncharted
1x Seek the Horizon
1x Rites of Flourishing
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sprouting Vines
1x Sylvan Library
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Chord of Calling
1x Citanul Flute
1x Genesis Wave
1x Planar Portal
1x Primal Command
1x Summoner's Pact
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Weird Harvest
Win Conditions
1x Ant Queen
1x Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1x Masticore
1x Nemata, Grove Guardian
1x Wolfbriar Elemental
Cards by Type
[CENTER]
47x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Blasted Landscape
1x Dark Depths
1x Haunted Fengraf
1x High Market
1x Maze of Ith
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Scrying Sheets
1x Slippery Karst
1x Strip Mine
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Terrain Generator
Instants
1x Chord of Calling
1x Realms Uncharted
1x Sprouting Vines
1x Summoner's Pact
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Cultivate
1x Gaea's Bounty
1x Genesis Wave
1x Harmonize
1x Journey of Discovery
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Life From the Loam
1x Mulch
1x Nostalgic Dreams
1x Primal Command
1x Seek the Horizon
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Weird Harvest
Creatures
1x Ant Queen
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Eternal Witness
1x Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1x Krosan Tusker
1x Magus of the Library
1x Masticore
1x Nemata, Grove Guardian
1x Nullmage Shepherd
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Wolfbriar Elemental
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Armillary Sphere
1x Citanul Flute
1x Expedition Map
1x Horizon Spellbomb
1x Journeyer's Kite
1x Planar Portal
1x Scroll Rack
Enchantments
1x Abundance
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Rites of Flourishing
1x Sylvan Library
Card Choices
Lands
Blasted Landscape, Slippery Karst, Tranquil Thicket: Useful for emptying your hand after you flip the Sasaya to get something more useful.
Dark Depths: Can be fetched with Expedition Map and Sylvan Scrying (if you want to run it) and can work as a win con if you cant find a creature.
Dryad Arbor: Can be tutored as a creature if you really need a land in your hand to flip your general.
Haunted Fengraf: Can randomly get a card back, worst case scenario it gets a Yavimaya Elder back but either way all its targets are good for you.
High Market: Sometimes can be useful to save your key creatures from exile type removal.
Maze of Ith: Super good defense, to good not to play. This can help you survive into the late game if I cant seem to keep your general on the table.
Reliquary Tower: Helpful when you want to keep things in your hand but need to keep lands in your hand to flip your general.
Scrying Sheets: Helps get more lands in your hand.
Strip Mine: There are few lands that can really prevent you from winning but staring down a Glacial Chasm is just the worst. With FTV: Realms out I have been seeing Chasm a lot so I decided to start packing this card again just in case.
Terrain Generator: Helps power out lands after you flip your general, but be careful if you are expecting that your general will die.
Utility
Concordant Crossroads: Lets you win the turn you drop an army
Eternal Witness, Nostalgic Dreams: Great tutors, Dreams allows you to dump a bunch of lands from your hand and reuse everything in your graveyard. You can replay all the land tutors just to thin your deck when you have tons of mana.
Nullmage Shepherd: The only artifact and enchantment hate you will ever need.
Seedborn Muse: Great with Journeyer's Kite to get tons of lands. Planar Portal every turn. If you cast Tooth and Nail get her and Eternal Witness, Tooth and Nail again getting Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Masticore so you can destroy everyone's lands during their upkeep.
Land Fetch
Abundance: Great for getting lands when you need it or non-lands when you don't
Armillary Sphere, Horizon Spellbomb, Journeyer's Kite, Krosan Tusker, Realms Uncharted, Sprouting Vines, and Yavimaya Elder: Land fetch at instant speed is invaluable in this deck. It allows you to set up for the turn you play your general and win. Usually get the cycle lands with Realms and some utility land like Dark Depths.
Cultivate and Kodama's Reach: Small ramp while still putting a land into your hand.
Expedition Map: Instant speed land fetch while getting a good utility land.
Journey of Discovery, Mulch, Seek the Horizon, and Gaea's Bounty: Big land tutors are super good. Journey also allows you to ramp latter.
Sylvan Library: Much better then Sensei's Divining Top because it is free and will allow you to put more cards in your hand. Top will make you want to put 4 lands out so you can use all your 3 mana land tutors and still use top which can put you a turn behind playing your general. Not, that it still is not good just not as good as Library.
Harmonize: Good green draw is hard to come by.
Life From the Loam: Amazing ways to get land into your hand, better if you run a bunch of fetches like Misty Rainforest, Verdant Catacombs, etc.
Rites of Flourishing: Draw an extra card and can play an extra land when you want to.
Magus of the Library: Basically lets you draw an extra card and set up a winning turn with 7 lands in hand
Scroll Rack: Great, lets you dig a little deeper in the deck.
Tutors
Chord of Calling, Summoner's Pact, Primal Command, Worldly Tutor: Basic creature tutors.
Citanul Flute: Repeatable creature tutors, great with Seedborn Muse.
Planar Portal: Allows you tutor what ever, usually Tooth and Nail or Genesis Wave.
Genesis Wave: You just win. Genesis Wave for a lot, either hit Eternal Witness, Citanul Flute or Planar Portal for Eternal Witness then Genesis Wave again, and hit Concordant Crossroads and win right away.
Weird Harvest: Tutor for Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Masticore and even Eternal Witness if you are expecting a creature based counter after everyone else searches.
Tooth and Nail: Get Eternal Witness and Seedborn Muse, then get Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Masticore so you can destroy everyone's lands during their upkeep.
Win Conditions
Ant Queen and Wolfbriar Elemental: Basic army makers, great with Kamahl to Overrun.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Masticore: Land D or mass Overrun effect.
Nemata, Grove Guardian: can make a lot of creatures on one turn and then make them huge the next turn.
Other Possible Inclusions
Azuza, lost but seeking: great if you are building for speed, can empty your lands a little too quick incase there is a board wipe it will take you longer to flip the general again, besides you already make stupid mana. Still, great if you are aggressive.
Panglacial Wurm: good if you really want a beater but all you have with Sasaya flipped is land fetch in your hand
Nantuko Cultivator: A decent way to empty your hand of lands after you flip your general. I'm not a big fan of him, you don't always want to just empty your hand in case someone destroys your general. I feel that you might as well just run a tutor so you can just get what you want.
Verdant Catacombs , Misty Rainforest, etc.: basically any and all on color fetches, even the slow Alara fetch lands, if you want more fuel for life from the loam , can even run Lodestone Bauble if you go this route
Hurricane and Squall Line: If you want to just kill the whole table this is fine , but using a creature to win is best as you have many ways to tutor for them and only Planar portal to tutor for anything else.
Centaur Glade : Good win con, but again you cant really tutor for it.
Living Wish: Pretty good utility. You can run a lot of silver bullets, an extra win condition, or even a land in a pinch. Not necessary but can be great in a diverse meta where you need more options.
Spawnsire of Ulamog : Similar to wish, it became a little worse after Emrakul, the Aeons Torn got the axe, still good as a one card win condition if you don't mind running a sideboard.
Genesis: Really good, great if you are running Weird harvest so you can recover if someone grabs a Bloodfire Colossus or some kind of creature based board wipe. With Nostalgic dreams and Eternal witness I haven't really needed anymore recursion but he is the next best if you want more resilience.
Vedalken Orrery: Can do some crazy tricks with this, like playing your general before your turn and then just winning before anyone gets a chance to wrath. Also, allows you to play more of your land fetch and not worry about hand size. Probably not worth it though.
Sylvan Scrying: Good if you value your nonbasic lands a lot, but as a one-for-one it does not really help your clock.
Helix Pinnacle : Probably the best card if you want a win con that's not a creature, hitting 100 counters is really easy. It still falls in the category of "hard to tutor for".
Earthcraft:can make infinite mana with any token maker really easy, but the deck already makes TONS of mana as it is so its not really worth the spot. You could run this with Rocket Launcher for the lols.
Time of Need: Good tutor, if you run this play Verdeloth the Ancient over Wolfbriar.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn: Legal in 1v1 so if you are play with the 1v1 ban list run him over Concordant Crossroads.
Font of Mythos, Howling Mine: These cards can be good. Rites of Flourishing is similar but the added ablitity to play an extra land puts it way above these 2. Still they are both pretty good, not to mention the politics of the cards are valuable too.
Horn of Greed: Good card that lets you keep your tempo but I'm not sure if is better then other cards in the deck.
All-star Cards and Good Synergies
-If you cast Genesis wave then you really just win. Realistically when you cast it you will be casting it for 30 or more. you should hit Eternal witness or Citanul Flute/Planar portal to get Witness to cast Genesis wave again. All the lands from the first Wave come into play untapped which will allow every land to tap for 49 each (about 2500 mana) then you just make some tokens, over run 50 times with Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, blow up everyone's lands with Kamhl/Masticore, doesn't really matter, everything will have haste from Concordant Crossroads so you just win.
-Tooth and Nail just wins. Cast it, get Eternal witness and Seedborn muse. Cast Tooth and Nail again, get Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Masticore. Blow up everyone's lands during their upkeep.
-Nemata, Grove Guardian is your #1 stand alone win condition. Make an army and on your next turn swing and make more tokens to sacrifice so the rest become huge.
-If you have Seedborn muse and Journeyer's kite don't be afraid to hit your 5th land drop, this engine gets really dumb.
Budget Build
This deck is pretty easy to build on a budget. My build runs a lot of tutors and less win conditions so that I am only playing the best win conditions that the colors have to offer. When building on a budget I would suggest just cutting some of the tutors and just running more win conditions and a few more lands in place of so other more expensive. I know that Tooth and Nail can be a little pricey but I left it in just because of how powerful the card is. As always these are just suggestions and you should always make some changes for your own meta.
General
1x Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant
Lands
50x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Blasted Landscape
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Haunted Fengraf
1x Jungle Basin
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Scrying Sheets
1x Slippery Karst
1x Strip Mine
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Terrain Generator
Utility
1x Eternal Witness
1x Nostalgic Dreams
1x Nullmage Shepherd
1x Seedborn Muse
Land Fetch
1x Abundance
1x Armillary Sphere
1x Cultivate
1x Expedition Map
1x Gaea's Bounty
1x Harmonize
1x Horizon Spellbomb
1x Journeyer's Kite
1x Journey of Discovery
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Krosan Tusker
1x Lodestone Bauble
1x Magus of the Library
1x Mulch
1x Realms Uncharted
1x Rites of Flourishing
1x Seek the Horizon
1x Sprouting Vines
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Yavimaya Elder
Tutors
1x Citanul Flute
1x Deceiver Exarch
1x Genesis Wave
1x Planar Portal
1x Primal Command
1x Time of Need
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Weird Harvest
Win Conditions
1x Ant Queen
1x Gigantomancer
1x Helix Pinnacle
1x Killer Bees
1x Nemata, Grove Guardian
1x Unyaro Bees
1x Wolfbriar Elemental
1x Wurmcalling
[/deck][/CENTER]
Change Log
5/12/2012-added the shell section and a few more possible inclusions
6/8/2012-making it prettier, adding some stuff to options.
6/16/2012-Added reasons for card choices.
6/18/2012- Out: Rowen, Forest, Green Sun's Zenith
In: Weird Harvest, Magus of the Library, Sylvan Library
7/10/2012- Finally getting around to updating and buffing up the guide to try and get primer status. Overhauled a lot of the sections and added a lot of new sections. Much more explanations about how the deck works and strategies behind the deck.
7/13/2012- added some more cards to the possible choices and cleaned up some other sections.
9/9/2012- Out: Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Snow-Covered Forest
In: Haunted Fengraf, Strip Mine
Any suggestions on how to make the Primer better, personal experience with the deck, card choices, or any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!
RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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EDH
GWSigarda, Host of EnchantressGW[Primer]
@azncbc1992 Azuza, lost but seeking can be very powerful in this deck, the only down side is that she can empty your hand a little too quick. my build is built for maximum consistency. In most metas people will probably be packing some enchantment hate, most of the time the deck is fast enought to get around that but not all the time so you don't want to empty your hand of land to quick and risk not being able to flip your general for a long time. If you are running a really aggressive version of the deck and are playing the 1v1 banlist and can play Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and a few other more aggressive cards then Azuza, lost but seeking is a great card. I loved her a lot but burned more then once after a board wipe happened. Thanks for the suggestion i forgot to add her to the suggestions section.
Would it be useful to post a build for an aggressive version of the deck and a more resistant version? i know that my version has some meta calls but everyone operates in a different meta.
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RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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You're right in that it can be somewhat narrow and un-tutorable. On the other hand, I'm never unhappy to draw it - it pretty much ensures that short of a Counterspell, Wheel of Fortune, Mind Twist or Fireball, I can stall for time to reach my wincon.
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Out: Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Snow-Covered Forest
In: Haunted Fengraf, Strip Mine
I felt that Boseiju was not really doing anything. If they had a counter they would have used it on your general and it comes into play tapped so I was not impressed. I like Fengraf as a cheap recurable way to get creatures back, even at random. There have been a few lands that have been giving me trouble lately, namely Glacial Chasm, so i decided to run it again.
There have not really been a ton of good stuff coming out lately for the deck. As a mono color deck I'm not sure if Rav will have anything spectacular cumming out but there is a chance so we will see.
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It's ok but I think I would rather run Dosan the Falling Leaf. Consistancy is really something that i think about in this deck. I run a lot of creature tutors so if i want to run an effect then i would rather have it on a creature. So far counters are the biggest issues that the deck runs into but most of the time the deck is so fast and explosive that i don't really worry about it.
RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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Also, some more I can think of below:
Patron of the Orochi - since you're tapping for that much mana, might as well double it all?
Avenger of Zendikar / Night Soil / Gelatinous Genesis - more mass token generators
Doubling Season / Parallel Lives / Primal Vigor - double those tokens
Beastmaster Ascension / Coat of Arms / Eldrazi Monument - bigger army
Elfhame Sanctuary - another land fetcher
Patron of the Orochi: good source of mana but you usually have plenty.
Avenger of Zendikar: probably not explosive enough
Night Soil[/card]:I'm not really worried about people's graveyard.
Gelatinous Genesis: this is a pretty good instant army but probably not as good as Genesis Wave for an X spell. cards with Genesis Wave come into play untapped (i.e. all your lands) and you will probably hit another card that will let you make an army. You want to have your win conditions as creatures so you can tutor for them consistently. I'm running a small amount of win conditions supplemented by tutors because those creatures are the best and I want them above all others.
Token doublers: you should have more than enough tokens already.
Anthems: I ran a few at various points but decided that they were not that good. The deck is very fast and has no way to tutor for something other than lands or creatures so I felt that I never really saw them.
Elfhame Sanctuary: this is a card I was not aware of and would probably be a good add.
RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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I just got the deck completed and ran it for the first time tonight, it's definitely explosive, no doubt about it! I went a slightly different route than you, a few less tutors and some redundancy in wincons, still scary nonetheless.
I can see now that anything that generates one extra mana (caged sun, etc.) or token doublers are just unnecessary with how much mana Sasaya can dump out. I am currently using Snake Basket as another token maker though, it's not repeatable, but at a 1:1 mana:creature rate, it's a monster when it does go off. All that saved mana just means more Kamahl overruns 😃
Thanks again for the awesome deck idea!
That would be bad but the deck can usually generate enough mana to get pop Depths already. Although, if something goes wrong with Sasaya this could be a good combo.
@hwang24. I found that you need to think hard about playing lands, sometimes it is best to miss a land drop if that means you will have enough lands to flip Sasaya on the next turn. Looking at my list I realized I forgot Sensei's Divining Top which should be in the deck as well. I understand wanting more variety of win conditions and less tutors. I found that I got a little bored with going for the same win cons over and over again. It was more optimal but less fun. I was running 58 lands but I felt that the deck ran a little smother at around 60. Anything less than 55 and it becomes to risky to rely on consistently drawing a land to flip Sasaya.
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Agreed, I really like this deck, I have a Child of Alara deck that runs 80 lands. Yes, 80, 19 are tutors, mana acceleration, scapeshift, and other win conditions with ad nauseum
Was also thinking Peregrination but the 4CC might be a little high on the curve.
If you have a good amount of lands or top manipulation going like, Sylvan Library, Top, Scroll Rack, or something else then I think Lair Delve could be very good. I think you are right about Peregrination. It seems fine but 4cc can be difficult if you want to play Sasaya on turn 4, flip her and then drop your land. It could still be pretty good, though.
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RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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I have a Nemata,the Grove Guardian deck that is basically a mono-ramp/mana doubler deck. I am interested in switching it into this list. Trees, you have inspired me =)
Also, RIP Roofy, you will be missed...
@akroma44, Candelabra of Tawnos would probably be pretty good, maybe a little unnecessary but good. Magus of the Candelabra being a creature would, for once in this deck, not be as good because of the inability to use it the turn you play. Illusionist's Bracers is probably not worth the spot. The deck needs to run an extremely high number of lands so card choice is crazy important. The bracers would work well in the deck but because they require other cards to function its difficult to make cuts for it, despite my personal affinity towards the card. If you are wanting to make the switch go for it. I really think it is an interesting deck that is unique in EDH. It really is a hard combo deck (like Goblin Charbelcher or Storm) so keep that in mind, some metas are pretty averse to to it and I have gotten some flack when going to different shops not used to it. Also, people really do not understand the deck so the first few times you play play it places people will probably be taken really off guard. If there is minimal disruption the deck can win turn 4-5 very consistently.
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Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris