[Primer] Modern Knights

[Eriol]

Knight fans must be patient. Wizards will print us another good knight card. Then, we can forget about 4 CMC cards.

[Nabbydian]

Originally Posted by Eriol

I agree that with Aether Vial, you could probably trick your opponent into attacking Elspeth. Personally, in a vacuum, I find Elspeth's token generator ability a little slow.

With or without Aether Vial, opponent would still be forced to attack Elspeth eventually - that's what planeswalkers in general bring to the table. If Elspeth's token generator ability is faster she would be broken...

Originally Posted by DrWorm

Yea, I am not sure I can get behind the "virtual card advantage through diversion principle. I'm not saying the effect does not exist, but I am not sure it is worth paying 4 mana for.

It does seems costly, 4cc to create this situation or scenario. However, isn't that what keep Elspeth balanced? I think it depends if the deck is setup properly to make better use of Elspeth. I tend to use Elspeth as a means to improve the mid-game or step up board position.

Originally Posted by Eriol

Knight fans must be patient. Wizards will print us another good knight card. Then, we can forget about 4 CMC cards.

I'm already happy we have 5 knights from Avacyn Restored.

Below is a link to a short review I made on how the new knights fare in legacy, I suppose it's quite similar to in Modern so I'm not going replicate the post here.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showp...&postcount=202

[Eriol]

Originally Posted by Nabbydian

With or without Aether Vial, opponent would still be forced to attack Elspeth eventually - that's what planeswalkers in general bring to the table. If Elspeth's token generator ability is faster she would be broken...

I guess my problem is with other aggro decks. I'm close to losing by the time I can use Elspeth, which is why I took her out to put something faster or Wrath of God (I continue to change the cards in and out)

Originally Posted by Nabbydian

Below is a link to a short review I made on how the new knights fare in legacy, I suppose it's quite similar to in Modern so I'm not going replicate the post here.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showp...&postcount=202

The card links to three of the cards include the bold tag in the names, so it is messing up the search. Please correct.

[Nixx]

My biggest problem with the knight decks are tron based decks. They are so annoying!

[Nabbydian]

Originally Posted by Eriol

I guess my problem is with other aggro decks. I'm close to losing by the time I can use Elspeth, which is why I took her out to put something faster or Wrath of God (I continue to change the cards in and out)

If that is the case, board wipe is definitely better, as Elspeth will be too clumsy here. You could also take a second look at Knight of the Holy Nimbus - he could slow down your opponent, and survive a Exemplar-less Wrath of God.

Originally Posted by Eriol

The card links to three of the cards include the bold tag in the names, so it is messing up the search. Please correct.

No problem! Corrected!

Originally Posted by Nixx

My biggest problem with the knight decks are tron based decks. They are so annoying!

Would a full playset of Path to Exile & Despatch helps here? I recall seeing at least 4-6 creature exile spells in your puresteel knight deck. Oblivion Ring could be useful too.

[Eriol]

Originally Posted by Nabbydian

If that is the case, board wipe is definitely better, as Elspeth will be too clumsy here. You could also take a second look at Knight of the Holy Nimbus - he could slow down your opponent, and survive a Exemplar-less Wrath of God.

Wrath of God says, "Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated." I believe the "can't" wording takes precedence, so Knight of the Holy Nimbus gets destroyed anyway.

[Nabbydian]

Originally Posted by Eriol

Wrath of God says, "Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated." I believed the "can't" wording takes precedence, so Knight of the Holy Nimbus gets destroyed anyway.

Yup, forgot about it. My bad. Must have seen too much of Day of Judgment. Somemore, all the copies of Wrath I have is from Revised edition. Tend to forget about things like this.

How about playing Day of Judgment over Wrath of God if you are playing 4x Knight of the Holy Nimbus? Other than Thrun, the Last Troll, I can't recall other creatures with regeneration which is frequently seen in Modern.

[Eriol]

Originally Posted by Nabbydian

Yup, forgot about it. My bad. Must have seen too much of Day of Judgment. Somemore, all the copies of Wrath I have is from Revised edition. Tend to forget about things like this.

We all make mistakes from time to time. No biggie.

Originally Posted by Nabbydian

How about playing Day of Judgment over Wrath of God if you are playing 4x Knight of the Holy Nimbus? Other than Thrun, the Last Troll, I can't recall other creatures with regeneration which is frequently seen in Modern.

That is definitely an idea, but I haven't tried it. I used to be a lousy control player, so I'm used to wiping all creatures unconditionally. lol

[DrWorm]

Originally Posted by Nabbydian

How about playing Day of Judgment over Wrath of God if you are playing 4x Knight of the Holy Nimbus? Other than Thrun, the Last Troll, I can't recall other creatures with regeneration which is frequently seen in Modern.

It is pretty uncommon, I use it to my advantage in my Rock build that plays Loxodon Hierarch, but there are several decks that can play creatures from the graveyars, and that is about the same thing.

[The Witch King of Angmar]

Day of judgment would be good against living end or dredge decks, on top of the usual graveyard hate cards that is played.

[Nabbydian]

Originally Posted by Eriol

That is definitely an idea, but I haven't tried it. I used to be a lousy control player, so I'm used to wiping all creatures unconditionally. lol

Lolz I was a bad control player, and I don't think I have made any progress.

Anyway, I'm treating you as my guinea pig here. Honesty I like Knight of the Holy Nimbus, but have never really got down to playing him in my decks. I have been playing the likes of Knight of the White Orchid and Knight of Meadowgrain for the longest time, and have even considered White Knight over KotHN in the past. I did play against KotHN in mirror knight games in Cockatrice, and saw a guy tried him before against Jund, KotHN was quite decent during those matches.

Originally Posted by DrWorm

It is pretty uncommon, I use it to my advantage in my Rock build that plays Loxodon Hierarch, but there are several decks that can play creatures from the graveyars, and that is about the same thing.

Day of Judgment is usually going to be a sideboard card for me, and together with some graveyard hate spells I think we should have a good chance against them.

Are there any other ways to handle these decks other than the abovementioned?

Originally Posted by The Witch King of Angmar

Day of judgment would be good against living end or dredge decks, on top of the usual graveyard hate cards that is played.

Yeah, it would be beneficial to play both type of spells. And they are probably stuffs we have in the sideboard in the first place so we don't need to change much.

[Eriol]

Originally Posted by Nabbydian

Anyway, I'm treating you as my guinea pig here. Honesty I like Knight of the Holy Nimbus, but have never really got down to playing him in my decks. I have been playing the likes of Knight of the White Orchid and Knight of Meadowgrain for the longest time, and have even considered White Knight over KotHN in the past. I did play against KotHN in mirror knight games in Cockatrice, and saw a guy tried him before against Jund, KotHN was quite decent during those matches.

I need to find room for Knight of the Holy Nimbus (KofHN) in a future game. I can remove Thalia x2 from my deck, but I don't really have room for the other 2 KotHN. I have to look at this later. Don't expect me to post any feedback on this configuration for a while.

[Nabbydian]

Originally Posted by Eriol

I need to find room for Knight of the Holy Nimbus (KofHN) in a future game. I can remove Thalia x2 from my deck, but I don't really have room for the other 2 KotHN. I have to look at this later. Don't expect me to post any feedback on this configuration for a while.

lolz, no problem. I still think you will probably end up testing on KotHN before me, anyway, my focus at the moment is on Esper Hakkon Knights (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showp...&postcount=423) which I'll be sleeving up by next week so I can playtest it in 2 weeks time. I will be having an overnight Modern session with my friends so hopefully it be good enough to justify adding into the primer(like the Puresteel Knights decklist).

[Nixx]

Originally Posted by Nabbydian

Would a full playset of Path to Exile & Despatch helps here? I recall seeing at least 4-6 creature exile spells in your puresteel knight deck. Oblivion Ring could be useful too.

No, not against Karn or Mindslaver.
Maybe I should add Oblivion Ring to the main board. But I don't know for what.

[Nabbydian]

Originally Posted by Nixx

No, not against Karn or Mindslaver.
Maybe I should add Oblivion Ring to the main board. But I don't know for what.

I don't know. Seems like there is no decent solution here.

They usually play Mindslaver when they can activate them on the same turn so I'm not sure what Oblivion Ring brings to such a matchup. I also never liked O'ring on Karn, trying to kill him with creatures is still the best way out IMO. That's when Aether Vial can make a difference here - in making the opponent's get their calculations wrong towards protecting Karn.

If we can't stop Mindslaver from controlling our turn, we can try to stop them from recycling Mindslaver via Academy Ruins by Tectonic Edge, Knight of the Reliquary gives us better consistency in getting Tectonic Edge into play for this purposes. At least it stops them from winning with infinite turns.