Game 1: Karn, Phage, Karona, Edric. An early Omen Machine throws this game into a weird beginning. A lot of wraths and exiling occurs, eventually, Karn has a dead Triskellion, that I rez with Dark Mikeaus out and declare game over. I really don't remember much more of this one. I think Mikeaus may come out, he's not what I'm trying to test.
===
EDIT: I later realized this was a mistake. I simply rezzed Triskellion and declared the game over. Technically, it wouldn't work since it wasn't my triskleiion, it would have returned to it's owner when it un-died. we laughed about this a bit.
==
Game 2: Karn, Merieke, Godo, Edric: I take a few early exchanges, but a Stigma Lasher hits the field, I fight valiantly, but eventually two players conspire against me, removing my blocking options, and I get an Emblem of anti-lifegain. I eventually pull out the Mikeaus/Kokusho/Griselbrand/etc. But was at 7 life, and had no sac outlet, so Grisel was useless. Kokusho was useless. I died to a spikeshot elder wielding an Argentum Armor.
Sorry guys, no good test data from me this week, other than the part where there is no good test data: I had several opportunities to pull out Kokusho, and then didn't because I'd already won, or could more reliably win in another way.
Game 1: Sliver Queen, Niv Mizzet.
Out the gates, both players gun for me, and I make some whiny noises about that though I'm not serious and reassure them that I am kidding. An early Necropotence sets up my draws, and starts filling my yard. I set up a Braids + Magus of the Abyss pair on the board, which all gets bounced by Niv with a Kederkt Leviathan. He also kills my Cabal Coffers. This actually helps me a bit though, since I was getting towards the lower spectrum of life, and SQ had a shroudy creature beating me up, as well as an unblockable land. Despite losing my coffers, I am able to Beacon my Caged Sun out, and drop a Gauntlet of power, the next turn I drop chainer, return my Stax set, as well as Sangromancer, and Dross Harvester. I also drop a Smokestack into play. With Reassembling Skeleton in my graveyard, and a Harvester of Souls in hand, this puts a dominating position in my favor, (despite taking 4 from the stupid land, luckily my life regen is now high enough with the Stax to live through it all). I also had a Dark Mike in the graveyard. I also still had my necropotence in hand, as well as Infernal tribute which was going to do some stupid draw/lifegain for me with reassembling skeletons and dross harvester and all that stupid amount of mana I had.
It goes about as you'd expect, with a turn 3 DT for Reassembling Skeletons and play them, turn 4 gets me an extraplanar lens on a swamp with braids, I reveal the Smokeestack in my hand and both players scoop. They were also both mana screwed, to which I ranted for a while about actually using mulligans. (Teysa kept 2 lands + Howling Mine, Gisela pitched a land to the mine early on, expecting to draw one back, and got stuck on his 3).
Game 3: Teysa, Gisela.
This game lasted a long while, but I got a stupid topdeck on turn 3 drawing my coffers while my T1 and 2 lands were Urborg, and Petrified field. The game went back and forth a bit, with Teysa hitting upwards of 90 life, but by the end of the game, I had coffers, vesuvacoffers, deserted temple, and caged sun, and each coffers was tapping for 12 or 14 or something stupid like that. I also had crucible and a sac land, and chainer was out looking for anything to die so I could steal it. Braids + Magus set the prison lock again, and I was just looking for a win condition, other than attacking for about 20 damage a turn with my minion army. Also, I had nether traitor, reassembling Skeleton, and an active summoning station (with 4 pinchers out) to feed my stax effects. I ran through 4 tutors that game (beseech, diabolic, +yawgwin playing both again), and passed kokusho up all 4 times in favor of:
1) Deserted Temple. 2) Crucible of Worlds. 3) Vesuva. 4) Vedalken orrery.
All of them were chosen in order to support my Coffers. The last two, in hindsight, were probably win-more, and I should have gone for sac-outlet+Kokusho, or some sort of draw engine instead, probably.
So... Does the lack of Kokusho add anything to this test?
Future deck changes: Dark Mike and Stax are coming out. They make it hard to test Kokusho. More Vampire lifestealy effects will go in, to increase the Kokusho feel of the deck. Lets see if that's what people don't like.
Here's my write up from the Koku test thread for this week.
Some changes for this upcoming week. The biggest is that Kokusho will be taking the helm. I am actually quite unhappy about this, I feel Chainer is far stronger, but perhaps I'll be proved wrong. The next is the removal of Stax elements. These were unfun for my group, and while they would stay if Chainer remained my general (they do help close out games), I want to test Kokusho. Stax is running too big of a competition next to Special K. Mikeaus has also been removed for stealing the show.
Coming in are Shriekmaw and Skinrender to take care of removal option, Hell's Caretaker as an additional resurrection effect (I need more without being able to depend on Chainer), Malakir Bloodwitch as another Special K effect.
A few vampires got shuffled in, replacing similar cards.
This week was interesting. There were a few changes to the deck: First, many of the Stax effects were cut (Braids, Smokestack, Magus), next, Black Mikeaus was cut, for stealing the show, finally, Kokusho took the helm on a few games, in order to force some interaction.
Game 1 (Kokusho) vs Teysa, Teysa, Edric: An early bitterblossom gave me some tokens to use as chump change and card draw with Edric out. I kept an opening hand with bojuka bog and phyrexian tower as my lands, but managed to work with that to tutor for a Thawing Glaciers to work up my mana base. I dropped an early Oblivion Stone and sat on it for a while, fate countering a bunch of mana doublers. I killed off Edric quickly, once I was established. My life total went up and down a lot through the game, as my deck hurts me a lot. Kokusho died and returned 3 times (twice to Dread Return, once to a Sword of Light and Shadow which was hurting both Teysas), but only after Edric died, so I only ever gained 25 life off of Kokusho, no small amount, though Dross Harvestor was competing with 32 life gained (and 8 dealt). The Teysas were a problem, but an early Phyrexian tower managed to save the important things, and I ended the game with 2 mana doublers out (Gauntlet, Lens) and a Nirkana Revenant on my Mimic Vat, which was killing people left and right.
Game 2: Chainer vs. Treacherous Glissa. THIS is where the battle now begins. My introduction of Chainer/Kokusho has brought my brother's Glissa Deck out of retirement. This is a bauble-returning deck that hates on artifacts, hates on creatures, and hates on graveyards. An early Scrabbling claws puts serious pressure on me as all my resources in the grave are removed. An early Viridian Longbow takes out my Skinrender before I'm ready for it, and he gets exiled, which severely limits my options at killing my brother's Glissa. To prevent Claws sac/draw/return I start taking a lot of Commander hits. He gets his Loxodon Warhammer, which seriously puts a clock on me, so I tutor for an O-stone. Glissa being the cheater that she is returns the Lox, and he Death-touch tramples over my Kokusho and Nirkana Revenant 1-1-4 to me for the General kill. The game was a race for me to get established, and for him to put General Damage on while denying my resources. Acidic Slime took out my early phyrexian tower, then an Eternal Witness returned it to take out my coffers. A Sylcok Replica answered my Extraplanar Lens, which was a gamble, but I was desperate. Of course, the Scrabbling Claws exiled about 12-14 cards from my graveyard. A Molder Slug kept incidental artifacts on my side down as well. Glissa ended the game at 40 life, having gained 12-20 off of the lox. Kokusho died once (well, twice, but I died the second time), so I only stabilized 5 life off of her, which ended up being inconsequential due to Commander damage.
Game 3: Chainer vs. Glissa, Kangee, Teysa. I open up with a tutor to get Thawing Glaciers + Deserted Temple going, with a few mana rocks. Glissa opens with an early Kiku, but has problems with a lack of green mana. Kiku keeps my side of the board clean of creatures as I keep dredging out lands, Glissa also bogs my graveyard. Kangee is stuck on 4 islands, all of which were in his opeing hand. Teysa has drops a Divinity and starts taking out chunks of my life total, which Glissa is happy to allow. This is followed by the Black chancellor, and then an untimely (for everyone else) Avacyn, while Kiku is tapped. I had just tutored for a Decree of Pain, but was 1 mana short the turn previous of playing it. I manage to buy a turn by cycling it, but get nothing, and both Kangee and Glissa have already scooped. I get nothing to save me on the draw, and scoop as well.
Game 4: Kokusho vs. Sek Kuar, Teysa. With the grave hate (mostly) gone, I fair a bit better. I still eat a bog from Sek Kuar, who also has a Prime Time doing shenanigans. I again don't find my coffers, but a Crucible of Worlds + Rings of Brighthearth + sac land are at least keeping me up somewhat high, though nothing in comparison to Prime Time. Kokusho trade with Prime Time twice, thanks to a skull clamp I have. I draw into Griselbrand, and even only activating him once a turn allows me to take over the game dropping a Gravepact and Infernal Tribute. I take out Sek Kuar, and then Teysa scoops shortly after. Kokusho died twice that game, chump blocking Primeval Titan both times, gaining me 20 life. Falkenrath Noble and Blood Artist gained me 10-14 life together throughout the game, Kalastria Highborn an underwhelming 6, and Dross harvester something like 22 (and hit me for 8). Teysa stayed ahead of me in life the whole game until essentially the end, due to Suture priest, Soul warden, Soul's attendant, Sorin, lord of innistrad and some other lifelinker. Kokusho was brought back once by my own Dread Return (which then got bogged), and once by Sek Kuar's Living Death. - Apparently it was later than I thought, and I merged two games together. I double checked with my opponents by email, and the straitened out version is later in this thread. I swear I didn't think it was that late.
So, GY hate hurts, Resource denial hurts, and why in all heck is Living Death not in my deck?
I read through a majority of this thread, and I must say Bob I'm frequently impressed by your deck lists. It looks fun, and it doesn't look like cocoa puffs is what makes the deck strong.
I read through a majority of this thread, and I must say Bob I'm frequently impressed by your deck lists. It looks fun, and it doesn't look like cocoa puffs is what makes the deck strong.
Thanks!
The deck is quite fun, and quite resilient, but as shown last night (and a few other times) still has a few weaknesses. It is rather strong, and doesn't lean on Kokusho, though Special K is a rather strong recovery effect to fuel the life loss the deck incurs. Many games my life can fluctuate +/- 30 life a round. I will probably keep a version of this deck around even after the Kokusho tests are over, replacing her with some other form of recovery. I like the vampire package right now, they work well with Chainer.
The biggest surprise player in here is probably Dross harvester. He looked decent on paper, even with the pain, but is even more effective than I had primarily anticipated. I expected to flash him out/reanimate him when needed and have his gain around 8-10 life. Instead, he typically gains me on the scale of 20-30. I'm just waiting for a token deck to run into a wrath.
That said, the Avacyn last night has me rethinking my wrath package. Decree of pain hasn't impressed me much, and I want more out of my wraths. Living Death is a given, and just a brutal oversight on my part. Black Sun's Zenith also now seems necessary in here.
I may also add Black Balthor as an option for resurrection, and potential trial as the Commander. He can serve a similar role as Chainer.
Why BSZ over something like Mutilate? I suppose you have the option to make it a one-sided wrath if necessary, but mutilate is nice and cheap for an effect that will probably be just as good if not better. Also, Kagemaro, First to Suffer seems solid with all the card draw you seem to be having. Plus you can just reanimate him with Chainer, whereas the other two don't have that luxury.
I did end up merging two games into my game 4 in the last post, so I thought I'd correct that, as well as add in another viewpoint that was related to me:
Game 4 and 5 are now split apart (I swear, I didn't think it was that late...) and there is a view from my brother on the 1v1.
Game 1 (Kokusho) vs Teysa, Teysa, Edric: An early bitterblossom gave me some tokens to use as chump change and card draw with Edric out. I kept an opening hand with bojuka bog and phyrexian tower as my lands, but managed to work with that to tutor for a Thawing Glaciers to work up my mana base. I dropped an early Oblivion Stone and sat on it for a while, fate countering a bunch of mana doublers. I killed off Edric quickly, once I was established. My life total went up and down a lot through the game, as my deck hurts me a lot. Kokusho died and returned 3 times (twice to Dread Return, once to a Sword of Light and Shadow which was hurting both Teysas), but only after Edric died, so I only ever gained 25 life off of Kokusho, no small amount, though Dross Harvestor was competing with 32 life gained (and 8 dealt). The Teysas were a problem, but an early Phyrexian tower managed to save the important things, and I ended the game with 2 mana doublers out (Gauntlet, Lens) and a Nirkana Revenant on my Mimic Vat, which was killing people left and right.
Game 2: Chainer vs. Treacherous Glissa. THIS is where the battle now begins. My introduction of Chainer/Kokusho has brought my brother's Glissa Deck out of retirement. This is a bauble-returning deck that hates on artifacts, hates on creatures, and hates on graveyards. An early Scrabbling claws puts serious pressure on me as all my resources in the grave are removed. An early Viridian Longbow takes out my Skinrender before I'm ready for it, and he gets exiled, which severely limits my options at killing my brother's Glissa. To prevent Claws sac/draw/return I start taking a lot of Commander hits. He gets his Loxodon Warhammer, which seriously puts a clock on me, so I tutor for an O-stone. Glissa being the cheater that she is returns the Lox, and he Death-touch tramples over my Kokusho and Nirkana Revenant 1-1-4 to me for the General kill. The game was a race for me to get established, and for him to put General Damage on while denying my resources. Acidic Slime took out my early phyrexian tower, then an Eternal Witness returned it to take out my coffers. A Sylcok Replica answered my Extraplanar Lens, which was a gamble, but I was desperate. Of course, the Scrabbling Claws exiled about 12-14 cards from my graveyard. A Molder Slug kept incidental artifacts on my side down as well. Glissa ended the game at 40 life, having gained 12-20 off of the lox. Kokusho died once (well, twice, but I died the second time), so I only stabilized 5 life off of her, which ended up being inconsequential due to Commander damage.
Small section from an email from my brother to a large portion of the playgroup:
[...]
The [Glissa] deck, being just built (literally, in the store, at 3 p.m.), was very rough around the edges and needs much refinement. I think that by pushing the aggressive side of things a bit more, it'll actually do a better job of controlling the ramp and combo decks than by trying to go directly after the combo and ramp pieces. The one game where I was able to (very barely) beat [bobthefunny]'s black deck of doom, it was due to equal parts early graveyard hate, a few key misplays by [bobthefunny] (although I didn't notice any particularly devastating errors), and the consistent aggression by Glissa. By the time [he] was able to get his commander out with enough mana to abuse him, he was missing some key support pieces (due to repeated board wipes to stall the aggro), and he was at 11 life or so. It's apparently less appealing to pay 3 life to bring back something that isn't Kokusho when you're already low on life and facing 3-5 first strike/deathtouch damage a turn.
[...]
Game 3: Chainer vs. Glissa, Kangee, Teysa. I open up with a tutor to get Thawing Glaciers + Deserted Temple going, with a few mana rocks. Glissa opens with an early Kiku, but has problems with a lack of green mana. Kiku keeps my side of the board clean of creatures as I keep dredging out lands, Glissa also bogs my graveyard. Kangee is stuck on 4 islands, all of which were in his opeing hand. Teysa has drops a Divinity and starts taking out chunks of my life total, which Glissa is happy to allow. This is followed by the Black chancellor, and then an untimely (for everyone else) Avacyn, while Kiku is tapped. I had just tutored for a Decree of Pain, but was 1 mana short the turn previous of playing it. I manage to buy a turn by cycling it, but get nothing, and both Kangee and Glissa have already scooped. I get nothing to save me on the draw, and scoop as well.
Game 4: Chainer vs. Glissa, Kangee, Teysa. I hurt myself a fair amount early on, and ramp up a bit using Crucible of Worlds + a sac land. An early Graveborn Muse gives me some small card draw, and dropping a creature every turn helps with Glissa having dropped a Genesis Chamber. Glissa is returning spellbombs left and right to draw cards off of myr dying, but my own Falkenrath Noble helps me a bit on that exchange as well. The noble dies a few times, but I eventually stick a mimic vat, which then gets a bloodline keeper on it, so that I can make a Keeper on the end step to get 2 tokens out of him. I draw into Griselbrand, and even only activating him once a turn allows me to take over the game dropping a Gravepact and Infernal Tribute. I also get a Rings of Brighthearth out, which lets me do stupid things with crucible+sac, as well as the mimic vat with the keeper on it (and Grisel, of course). I take out Glissa with an army of flyers, while a Sword of Light and Shadow allows me direct face beats to both Kangee and Teysa. Kokusho did emerge this game, but I don't recall how often.
Game 5: Kokusho vs. Sek Kuar, Teysa:With the grave hate (mostly) gone, I fair a bit better. I still eat a bog from Sek Kuar, who also has a Prime Time doing shenanigans. I again don't find my coffers, but a Thawing Glaciers + Rings of Brighthearth are at least keeping me up somewhat high, though nothing in comparison to Prime Time. Kokusho trades with Prime Time twice, thanks to a skull clamp I have. I ride Kokusho wielding a Sword of Light and Shadow and Skullclamp to victory. I take out Sek Kuar, and then Teysa scoops shortly after. Kokusho died twice that game, chump blocking Primeval Titan both times, gaining me 20 life. Falkenrath Noble and Blood Artist gained me 10-14 life together throughout the game, Kalastria Highborn an underwhelming 6, and Dross harvester something like 22 (and hit me for 8). Teysa stayed ahead of me in life the whole game until essentially the end, due to Suture priest, Soul warden, Soul's attendant, Sorin, lord of innistrad and some other lifelinker. Kokusho was brought back once by my own Dread Return (which then got bogged), and once by Sek Kuar's Living Death.
So, my Massacre Wurms have arrived in the mail yesterday, giving me another great creature wrath that I can sac and reanimate, for massive profit!
With Kagemaro, first to suffer added to that, it should give me a good base of wrath effects that I can recur.
Also suggested as a powerhouse when I mentioned a consideration for black balthor in another thread was Noxious Ghoul, this requires a bit more heavy of a Zombie theme though, which would encroach on my Current vampires. It's something to take note of though and keep in mind.
So I have some work cut out for me this weakend for this deck.
Also, I really wanted a blue deck with Kokusho in it so that I could use Rite in the same deck to see what that feels like in a game. I was dead set on Sedris before, since a) I can never get him to work quite right, and it bugs me, and b) red gives me Sneak Attack and Flayer of the Hatebound and lots of other spiteful toys.
But now... when Noxious Ghoul was mentioned to me, it suddenly hit me that Grimgrin, corpse-born would be quite brutal with a Kokusho. Built in sac outlet on the commander, and he loves getting things back from the yard! I think he would also go a heavy to-hand route, and could use the Bane of the Living, and all the return-to-hand enchantments. Also, he adds Gravecrawler to the self-recurring clamp options, and adds trinket mage to find it, and all of that delicious creature based draw stuff, and Baleful strix to go with my academy ruins, and... and yeah, looks like a potentially stupid deck. Oh, and clones, of course. Because they're pretty cool.
What are your thoughts at Life's Finale over BSZ? Both wrath's, BSZ being much more versatile. I kinda like the idea of being able to wrath and then nab / exile someones best creatures.
I like the idea of creatures in the yard for Chainer to snipe. The BSZ reaction was notably due to Avacyn hitting the table, and that it reshuffles itself, so that I would be able to tutor it back up. Also, it's permanent.
Life's Finale is definitely a Chainer card. Less so any of the other alt. generals I want to experiment with. I'll have to add it to the list of considerations. The ability to recur a green player's Primeval Titan (though only one person in my group runs it at present, due to gentleman's agreement), is a very strong plus.
This deck is really a generic suicide-mono-black-control-reanimator in that I can run any of the options at the helm, but it really has centered more on Chainer as the lead choice.
Yes, sorry I was thinking about that mainly with chainer in mind. I had some complaints about my mono black deck not being very interactive (which I don't necessary agree with) and just have been thinking about chainer as an alternative, thus doing some brainstorming.
Deck
-5 Malakir Bloodwitch
+6 Kokusho
-8 Decree of Pain
+5 Kagemaro, First to suffer
-4 Solemn Simulacrum
+6 Massacre Wurm
-8 Griselbrand (steals the show) (He will return, as a commander.)
+5 Living Death
This is what I'll be running this week.
Balthor will be exchangable with Kokusho, Chainer, and Griselbrand as the Commander.
So, the week intended to play the Balthor version didn't happen. I took a refreshing break from the deck (I had seriously been over playing it).
That said, I got 2 games in last week.
My usual Wednesday game was rather uninspiring, it was a 5 player game, Glissa and I were busy exiling each other's graveyards, multiple times. Szadeck dropped a Forced Fruition to try out the card. Karn had the following turn and drew 9/10s of his deck, and had lattice/forge/disk for the win, so we ignored him and played for second, but then Glissa drew 20 cards and 1 shot someone, and had a stacked GY, and the game ended shortly after. Uninspiring.
This weekend, I got to play another game, a 3 player versus Sliver Queen and a Vorosh reanimator. Sliver Queen pulls a Turn 2 Serra Ascendant, so I tutor for a Shriekmaw, but queen follows with the Lightning Greaves, so that kind of sucked. SQ pulls out a GY hate piece (Withered Wretch?) and I lose an early durdle, but Vorosh loses an attempted reanimation on a Sheoldred. I then tutor up a Massacre Wurm with Rune-scarred Demon which handles the little things. A Dread on my side of the board keeps the others off my back. Someone Wiped the board. I tutor up a Nihil Spellbomb, assassinate Vorosh's Graveyard with it, and follow up with a Bojuka Bog on SQ. I Balthor and activate, returning my dread army, with 3 6-power creatures and some small fries. Demon tutors for coffers, since I have urborg/vesuva/deserted temple in hand (can it get any more stupid?). Maybe a round passes by, but Vorosh uses Life's Finale. SQ kills my coffers. I activate balthor again, Demon tutors land recursion. I have some small fries and a Vedalken Orrery. I return the coffers. SQ attempts a Natural Balance with some small fries out, I use coffers to drop and activate Balthor a third time, wiping his side. I keep Cabal Coffers, Buried Ruin, Petrified Field, Deserted Temple, and a Swamp. Urborg is still in my hand to re-power coffers, and Crucible of Worlds is in my grave as a buried ruin target. Bog is now also conveniently in my grave. Opponents scoops as I start to tutor (again) off of the Demon.
So, Kokusho never saw play, though it wasn't for any lack of capability. I think I had about 6 tutors go off that game (3 off the Rune-Scarred Demon), but never felt heavily pressed for life, and didn't need another massive beater between Dread, Masascre Wurm, and Rune-Scarred Demon. Towards the end I was starting to not mind having some life, but I would probably have grabbed a Yawmoth's Will. I hadn't expected Balthor to be as effective, mainly believing him to be too mana-intensive to really abuse any recursion options. While I didn't get to abuse point reanimation as much, the mass-reanimation worked insanely well. Also, as this was the first time I got to use the Massacre Wurm and Dread, I was very happy with both.
If any piece were to go, it would likely be the temple, as the rings fuel the crucible/sac-land ramp, as well as glaciers, while temple only serves glaciers/coffers, and there are other ways to fuel coffers. Not decided how much I care about this incidental combo though.
===
I didn't fiddle with the deck this weekend, so no changes for this week.
===
Also, for the large numbers of games versus Glissa, I am actually requesting this matchup, as Glissa is packing the most grave hate of any deck currently in my Meta. I still need to try to talk the Sek-Kuar deck into running Kokusho, for the mirror recursion abuse.
After some friends yelled at me for my MBC being uninteractive, I threw together a list that kind've resembled yours with chainer and some things I wanted to run. Essentially mostly creature bases, with powerful engines with skullclamp / attrition / sac outlets and dirty recursion. I however am not testing kokusho, and my friends wouldn't like his addition to my deck. I found life loss to be a terrible issue with the general and added a few things like Disciple of Griselbrand as an additional sac outlet and some lifegain. I also run Promise of Power in place of griselbrand himself.
The issue I have with my rendition of the deck, is the lack of any sort of way to win the game short of stealing creatures and beating face, or exsanguinate for a buttload. Played a game the other day where I tried to win without using exsanguinate and I had an assanine amount of board position, but took forever to close the deal on only two players. Maybe I should have been tutoring up more painful creatures and reanimating more deadly things, but the bladewing player kept forcing me to exile his graveyard.
I'm thinking that balthor and living death give you quite the advantage in board state over other players, and that I should consider adding living death and maybe putting balthor at the head of the deck instead of chainer whilst leaving chainer in. I also run things like puppeteer clique which give me a fair shot at a lot of other things in graveyards as well as a haste outlet for them.
After some friends yelled at me for my MBC being uninteractive, I threw together a list that kind've resembled yours with chainer and some things I wanted to run. Essentially mostly creature bases, with powerful engines with skullclamp / attrition / sac outlets and dirty recursion. I however am not testing kokusho, and my friends wouldn't like his addition to my deck. I found life loss to be a terrible issue with the general and added a few things like Disciple of Griselbrand as an additional sac outlet and some lifegain. I also run Promise of Power in place of griselbrand himself.
The issue I have with my rendition of the deck, is the lack of any sort of way to win the game short of stealing creatures and beating face, or exsanguinate for a buttload. Played a game the other day where I tried to win without using exsanguinate and I had an assanine amount of board position, but took forever to close the deal on only two players. Maybe I should have been tutoring up more painful creatures and reanimating more deadly things, but the bladewing player kept forcing me to exile his graveyard.
I'm thinking that balthor and living death give you quite the advantage in board state over other players, and that I should consider adding living death and maybe putting balthor at the head of the deck instead of chainer whilst leaving chainer in. I also run things like puppeteer clique which give me a fair shot at a lot of other things in graveyards as well as a haste outlet for them.
Curious of your thoughts!
Card Discussion Disciple of Griselbrand is a card that I've re-discovered in the last week or two, and he definitely needs in my deck. Serves multiple functions in a convenient, cheap body. Griselbrand was actually pulled from my deck pre-banning (you can see in my latest incarnation). Even before I pulled him, I saw him one game, and he sealed it for me. He's exceedingly strong. Promise is not a bad idea, I've been considering another card draw method. I've been leaning more towards creature utility though since, well, we are playing reanimator. Kokusho is a huge asset to the deck, I cannot lie. While I don't find myself tutoring for her much currently (especially as I added a bunch more lifegain into the deck), the drain really helps keep Chainer going. If you run the vampire suite (there are many good options), you can try Malakir Bloodwitch instead. It's no replacement, but she'll pay herself at the least.
Winning
I was worried initially with this deck about the top-heavy end of my curve in my creatures. Turns out it's not so bad. In the play report that follows, repeatedly returning 3 6-power creatures was good, it seems. Exsanguinate is good, but oddly enough (especially in my meta, I guess) I'm finding the one-shot effect less stellar.
Other options that I've found works well, depending on your meta, is the package of Stax creatures (Braids, Magus, and Sheoldred). Sheoldred also serves as a heck of a beatstick, and can be considered singly. Dark Mike also give extra reach to the deck. I pulled both sets since they were detracting from my Kokusho testing, and don't jive as well with my meta.
Balthor vs. Chainer
So, the play report that will follow (and the one above) will help a lot to explain Balthor's strengths.
While Chainer hurts, he does have a few major advantages.
Up front mana-intensity: Chainer takes more mana than balthor, but not removing himself means it's in smaller increments on demand.
Instant speed, whenever: With balthor, you have an instant speed ability, but only once during the opposing round. Chainer has an on-demand ability for whenever.
Hits Opponents: This is kind of big. Theft is awesome, and abusing someone else's Sad Robot always feels so nice.
Less limitation: Black has a fair number of inherent weaknesses in artifact/enchantment destruction. Being able to recur your artifact creatures at will, such as Steel Hellkite is a huge asset.
Chainer also has a few disadvantages:
Ouch: His ability really hurts, and does add up very fast. I've found that while I feel chainer is probably slightly stronger, Balthor makes me feel much more comfortable while playing.
Exiled: Yeah, I've messed this up a few times. Mess up your reincarnations and/or mess up on your sac outlet availability, and things can go south in a jiffy. This can also be a pro. I have strategically reanimated swaths of my opponents creatures in response to Chainer removal. It was sexy.
Living Death was a card I overlooked initially as well. It's simply excellent in this deck. It's a wrath, and a reanimation spell in one, especially with the grave hate I run.
I've found that you really don't need to change how you tailor the deck too much between Balthor and Chainer. I'm sure you can optimize it more towards either, but my recommendation would be to toss Balthor at the head for a week, and just see how you like how he plays. I would however, suggest a lot of GY hate. It's useful to keep enemies down on reanimation targets.
=====
=====
Game Report
As I sat down, joining two idle players and asking if they were up for a game, one of them asked me to give a look-over to his Chainer deck he had just built, as he'd seen one of the early versions of this deck. I glanced through it quickly, made a few comments, and then suggested I play my own Chainer/Balthor deck against it. As we started to prepare, another player walked in the store, so we waved him over, and wanting to test Balthor's potential downsides, I revealed my General, and asked him to play a black or red deck, so he sits down with Nin. A fifth player sees us assembling, and joins in with Vela.
Line up: (clockwise, from me) Yours truly, with Balthor vs. Nin, Vela, Ghave, and Chainer. Chainer wins the roll, which puts me at going second (Yay!).
The game starts off with mostly lands (and me with mana rocks) around the table, until Ghave drops a Serra Ascendant on Turn 2. I drop my Attrition with no creatures on turn 3, and politely inform him that yes, I am willing to play and sac my general to kill it in retribution if he looks my way. Vela drops a turn 3 Kiku, Night's Flower, and T3 the Serra Ascendant goes chainer's way, while nin is also defenseless, nin has an absurd amount of artifact mana and a journeyer's kite out for turn 3, and is looking smug. Chainer attempts to flip a Nezumi Graverobber, but I foil his plans with my scrabbling claws! I drop my Bloodline Keeper, and pass. Nin does more rampy stuff, and Vela takes the initiative and just kills the ascendant, playing politics with the rest of the table, rather than bargaining with ghave to kill everyone else. Seeing as this made more friends than enemies, I think that might be a smart bargaining position. Chainer attempts to Animate Dead the ascendant, but my Scrabbling claws strike again! Despite Ghave having two sac lands in his yard, he opts to exile the Ascendant, for some strange reason. Kiku scares me (and my Bloodline Keeper), so I drop a turn 6 Blood Artist and Massacre Wurm to kill her while Vela is tapped out. He still manages to kill my blood artist first (so sad). Unrelated to the massacre wurm, the next round the Vela player has to leave. I also drop a falkenrath noble. I have a fair number of vampire tokens, have flipped my bloodline keeper into lord of lineage, but lose a fair amount of it in a small war with Nin. This war was initiated because I had no cards in hand, and I wanted him to fry my Lord with nin so I could get a new hand. He failed to comply as I dropped him to single digits, opting instead to wreck havoc on my side with a Cracklebur. Also, he Remands my Harvestor of Souls; I am unhappy on that, especially considering what follows.
Ghave has little overt presence on the board, but over a few turns during this war goes Sterling Grove, Cathar's Crusade, and then Ghave, Guru of Spores himself. For those who don't see this, Ghave pops off a counter, makes a token, and the crusade puts a counter back on ghave. You can also keep responding to the Cathar's triggered ability, so you can make batches of saprolings that each gets counters from the whole batch. Also, when he attacks, he can pop counters off of anything that's blocked to make more saprolings, whilch allows Cathar's to pump everything else. Scary stuff. As if that's not enough, he pops off his grove for an Awakening. Luckily, to answer the threat of harmless little me and my tiny army of 4/4 flyers, Chainer, despite still having mana issues, has liliana vessed for an oblivion stone. Amusingly, Ghave's greed in the form of the awakening allows him to explode it on my upkeep, not giving Ghave a chance to kill him. I have balthor out though, and respond in a super awesome move by activating Balthor to return my one creature in the graveyard: Blood Artist. And make another vampire. 15 creatures die to the O-stone, giving me 15 Blood artist triggers, and 15 Falkenrath Noble triggers. I kill Ghave (at 27), and wound (at 5 life) Nin. I am at 69 life. I play an Orrery and pass, with a seriously stacked GY. How I wish my Harvester was out for that fun... Ghave had mimic vatted my bloodline keeper, so he's gone for good too.
Nin's Homura, Human Ascendant returns flipped off the O-stone, and with an anger in the graveyard, he punches me for 3 in the face with Aladdin. No lie. I seriously consider conceding due to the sheer balls and awesome of that. Aladdin. Yes.
My next turn is more set up, and when nin attacks me again, I flash out Balthor, who returns an impressive line up of Blood Artist, falkenrath noble, Massacre Wurm, and Shriekmaw. Shiekmaw kills Aladdin, dealing two to Nin off Massacre Wurm, with Falkenrath and Artist triggers for two more, and I block his other flyer with my Falkenrath, using that trigger for the kill. I take some extra damage, but am still over 50.
Chainer still has not passed 5 lands, and is at under 20 life, with non-existant post-Massacre board position, scoops.
Scrabbling claws, aside from ruining Chainer's early plays, also removed 6 creatures that Balthor would have reanimated on the opposing team. Balthor resurrected a net zero enemy creatures. I was very happy.
Well, now that I've gotten a slight breather from work, I've been able to expand on the OP as I've wanted. It was getting kind of old just looking at a decklist. If you have any feedback, let me know.
Disciple of Griselbrand is a card that I've re-discovered in the last week or two, and he definitely needs in my deck. Serves multiple functions in a convenient, cheap body.
I was really pleased about this discovery. A convenient sac outlet with excellent lifegain, like you said on a cheap and convenient body.
Griselbrand was actually pulled from my deck pre-banning (you can see in my latest incarnation). Even before I pulled him, I saw him one game, and he sealed it for me. He's exceedingly strong. Promise is not a bad idea, I've been considering another card draw method. I've been leaning more towards creature utility though since, well, we are playing reanimator.
I could see it, the card was bonkers. I went to magiccards.info and searched all black creatures with the word "draw" in the rules text. Of which, I think your list contains everything that's decent. Aside from MAYBE that one legendary guy who gives everyone a Phyrexian Arena affect. He would be nice to sac at the end of your turn, and recur right before yours.
Kokusho is a huge asset to the deck, I cannot lie. While I don't find myself tutoring for her much currently (especially as I added a bunch more lifegain into the deck), the drain really helps keep Chainer going. If you run the vampire suite (there are many good options), you can try Malakir Bloodwitch instead. It's no replacement, but she'll pay herself at the least.
I had thought about including a vampire package and bringing on the bloodwitch. Although I didn't like a majority of the vamps! They just felt weak.
Winning:
I run black mikaeus, braids, and magus. I may replace one of the stax with Sheoldred since she has a strong effect for not much more than braids or magus. I think I just need more testing, and need to be less of a stickler on mollesting peoples graveyards. I'd like to add scribbleclaws, but I haven't found what I want to cut yet.
I think I will have to add living death in place of one of my sorcery's and try it out. I think I will have to do what you said about testing balthor out and seeing how he works. Not sure if I pack enough grave hate to make him work though!
The lifegain is less needed with Blathor than with Chainer, and holding that much mana open is a pain. On the flipside, targeted Grave Hate doesn't get much better than the wretch.
I haven't had grave issues yet with Balthor, even in a 5 player game where everyone would have targets, but I was allso lucky to have an early removal piece.
Incoming changes (some have already occurred and the list will need to be updated).
Anyways, as my meta has decided to remove all holds, and I am starting to navigate a bit away from Kokusho-centric deck building, the following are returning/being added to the deck:
I am also looking at Mindslicer once again. I used to run him in a 4/60 Gravepact deck, and I think the same principles can be applied here. Once I have control, I don't want people getting to use any more answers.
I also have two play reports from last night to write up, but it will need to wait until tonight, when I have my notes in front of me. Suffice to say, Blood Artist wins the MVP award, and caused more than 40 points of life loss+gain in each game. One game going over 80, and allowing me to do more than 40 points to myself with Chainer. That was stupidly disgusting.
My new favorite play is resurrecting as many blood artists in front of wraths as possible.
Game 1: vs. Teysa, Kaervek. There was a fourth player, but when he had only 2 lands on turn 5, he left...
Anywho. Teysa goes first, and leads with a turn 2 luminarch ascension. Going last, I drop a turn 2 Blood Artist, but my 0/1 isn't about to be able to take that task on alone. Teysa gets his 4th counter (and then some), and gets his turn 3 angel at the end of my turn. He follows up with a turn 4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and a turn 5 Elspeth, Knight Errant. Around this time, the 4th player leaves. Kaervek is mana-screwed but manages to drop his own blood artist, and I've managed to add a spawning pit and a bloodgift demon to my side. With a Beseech the queen in hand, (and a coffers out), I draw a Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor on the same turn. I advance my mana position off the beseech with a Deserted Temple, to not give too much information, and grab Xiahou dun, the one-eyed off my Demonic to re-abuse the tutors later. I leave a black open for the Vampiric.
Since Kaervek has no air protection, Teysa smashes him for a bunch, and I realize that I'm not quite ready to face Teysa alone, so I use my vampiric to find a wrath-effect to keep him around. I grab Kagemaro, First to Suffer. On my turn, I drop Kagemaro and leave a black open to activate. Teysa bites it, Castigates me to remove the one-eyed, and swings at Kaervek with intent to kill. I nuke Kagemaro, and at the end of the triggers, Kaervek is at about 20ish. I'm sitting comfortably above 40, and Teysa is in the low teens. Kaervek's Blood Artist has gotten exiled, and all my stuff is safely in my yard. Teysa makes some new tokens on my next end step, and puts Kaervek at 2, Kaervek punches him for two with a top-decked 2/2 pro-white zombie, so I activate balthor, returning a bunch of cheap stuff and discarded stuff from Kaervek and my utility army... and then use Kagemaro again to finish off with blood artist triggers.
Game 2 vs. Ghave, Sliver Queen tokens, Edric unblockables, Vorosh reanimator.
Ghave (previous teysa player) starts off the early scary stuff with a sterling grove, Mirari's wake, and other assorted stuff, into a Genesis Wave for 11, which happens to drop an Eternal Witness who then returns the wave promptly. And then he drops an Eldazi Monument. Yeah... issues. Sliver queen has tokens, people have taken a beating to draw cards off of Edric, I've had some minor land issues, coupled onto my Gauntlet of power being destroyed, and my Caged Sun O-ringed, both by Ghave.
Vorosh rips a tutor, and grabs an O-stone and hits it. It leaves Ghaves creatures, but gets rid of all the problem supports, like Wake and Monument. It also returns my sun. My Blood Artist nets me some life. I get a tutor, and not to find a trick stale, go find Kagemaro, First to Suffer again to finish the job. I then manage to assemble an Attrition, Dance of the Dead and Rune-scarred Demon in hand. It takes me about point-zero seconds to do the math, and do some pretty stupid things with it. Like get myself a Cabal Coffers to go with my Deserted Temple, allowing me to change its duty away from the Terrain Generator it had been abusing. Then I got a Chainer, who I proceed to abuse like the wind. My blood artist returns, as does kagemaro. Someone wraths, as I have killed Vorosh's Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger with attrition and stolen it with Chainer. Vorosh has a Dross Harvester. Mike's on the field again, so Kagemaro returns from his cost with a counter, allowing SQ to use Experiment Kraj as another kagemaro wipe in response to mine, to prevent Mike from keeping my side alive, and to make sure my Kagemaro didn't survive his own wrath, making something like 3 stacked wrath effects for whatever reason. The math gets a bit tricky on the triggers. I use chainer to resurrect two Phyrexian Metamorphs thinking to copy the Harvestor for a ton of cards... then realize with the graveyards stacked, and a Chainer, and a Dance of the Dead with a sac outlet... I'm not really needing a lot of cards. I double copy my artist, which each get 16 triggers for 48 life.
I proceed to abuse sac outlets, Dance of the Dead, Chainer, Dementia Master like the wind, easily sinking over 40 life into Chainer with no second thought. My Blood Artist goes wild. I'm bringing back Chainer, resurrecting other people's stuff, and then saccing Chainer to exile their stuff. Awesomeness is happening. At one point, I note that Vorosh pitched a ton of cool stuff, so I resurrect Chainer, use chainer to resurrect his Havengul Lich, Sac chainer, and in response to Chainer's exile nightmares trigger, activate the lich targetting chainer, activate Winding Canyons and resurrect Chainer for good so I can stop doing my silly dance routine. Sexy.
Edric tries the Vorinclex thing, but it ends the same way with Attrition + Chainer. Vorosh goes for a living death, I resurrect Kagemaro, First to suffer in response and wipe my side, dealing 7 with the blood artist, and putting my field in the grave for the living death. We resolve an insane amount of triggers (stacked graves), and I pop Kagemaro for another mid-20 point Blood Artist blood bath. At this point, I've gained over 80 life on the Blood Artist, and it's now down to me and Vorosh. Life totals: me @ 86, Vorosh @ 17. On my turn, I toss out balthor, activate to have fun resolving a bunch more triggers, and then cast my own Living Death for the wipe, and for the style, because even Kagemaro shouldn't have to do all the work himself.
MVP of the night:Blood Artist, which somehow ended up being my main source of eliminating opponents in both games.
Combined in both games, I think I attacked for less than 20 damage, and that was mostly with small utility guys for card draw off of Edric.
Those two dice above the cards are two Spawning Pit tokens (the pit got exiled). My life is at 73. Blood Artist was the only source of lifegain this game.
The creatures are Kagemaro, First to Suffer and Runescarred Demon, the only two survivors (post-mikeaus return) of me using Kagemaro.
The top card in my GY is Chainer. This is where I abuse the CHAINER+DANCE+ATTRITION like the wind.
One of the Kaervecks was a punisher deck, and an early Polluted Bonds hurts my mana production, as I'm using a Thawing Glaciers which I tutored for to up my mana. I take my 4 damages every other turn, and the lifegain keeps Kaerveck Punisher afloat through the other Kaervecks attacks. The Punisher deck is running a lot of wraths as well though, so attacks are scarce, and small.
I stop on 6 lands, banking on a high concentration of mana rocks, and doublers to keep me afloat, especially as Kaerveck Punisher drops a Sanguine Bond to increase the life gain, and then adds a Bloodchief Ascension. I'm banking lands in my hand and focus the Punisher dead to death using 6 swamps that tap for 4 mana each. I do allow myself a land drop for Cabal Coffers.
After the Punisher deck is gone, the other Kaerveck manages a few creature wraths, but I have a mile long stack of enchantments and artifacts, including a rings of brighthearth, which I use with sac lands, and Terrain Generator to rock myself up to 18 lands in relatively short order. At this point, my Swamps are tapping for 5 each, and Coffers is doing stupid stuff on it's own, and I'm drawing some 4-5 cards per turn.
7/18/2012: vs. Teneb Tokens, Niv wheels, and Animar artifact splooge.
Kokusho did nothing this game. I don't know why that's in my notes, but there it is at the top: "K did nothing." I assume that means I managed to draw/tutor/resurrect her at some point, but I have no recollections of her at all. Meh.
Teneb goes crazy early game this game, putting out some 30 tokens very rapidly while everyone is building up. He is also gaining tons of life, off of silly things, ending up way over a hundred. Niv tutors for a wrath, grabbing a Chain Reaction, and casts it, forgetting that I have a Blood artist. Teneb has tokens, Animar has splooged, in thanks to Niv, I kill him off with the triggers. I'm nice like that. Niv flashes (thanks to leyline) and Time warp for Teneb to spite me. He's nice like that. I also manage to kill off Animar in the same shot. It was impressive. They play a 1v1 (or 3, actually, while waiting for us to end).
Well. No board positions, I have no cards in my hand (thanks Niv), and Teneb has two turns back to back. Hero Mode time. Oh, and life totals are 138 Teneb, 73 me.
My life total dwindles, I take a hit from Teneb, and he has a Demonic Tutor, so has a full grip as well, with me at squat all. I draw a lucky Bloodline Keeper, which I chump a Teneb with, and stick him on a vat with the Rings of Brighthearth out. Teneb decides that me getting 4 vampires a turn is silly business (8 per rings activation, essentially. On his end step, I activate rings copy, for 2 bloodlines. Activate them copy for 4 vampires, on my turn they untap and I make 4 more), and pops an O-stone, figuring he can recover better than me (he's probably right). I get my own O-stone. I take more hits, and dwindle on down to 35. Teneb forgets my stone, and gets greedy, and I put us both into top deck mode. 138 life, to 35.
I get a Nezumi Graverobber, followed by a lucky bojuka bog and nail Teneb. He's still recovering, and manages to get a Disciple of Bolas to eat his Teneb, refilling his grip, and manages to quickly refill his yard. I've flipped the Graverobber in the mean time. I have all the mana in the world. I take his Disciple, and Harvestor of souls refilling my own grip, then take his entire graveyard, then all of mine.
Teneb dies in three attacks, the first swung in for low 20's, the second for mid 30's, the last for something in the 80's.
I think I have a good opener with lands, mana rocks, and assorted stuff. I open with a turn 3 Rings of brighthearth, turn 4 sac land, copied for some black ramp. I also have a Extraplanar Lens out on a swamp. SQ is not sitting idle though, and has insane ramp as well. Pulls a X=6 GSZ for Prime Time and +1's it with Oran Rief, the vastwood, I figure, ok, I've got Vedalken Orrery out, I can surprise with a Kokusho Chump. He follows up with Avenger, and swing with prime, plus land drop, plus oran rief makes all 7 plants 4/5's. I flash out a bloodgift demon, praying for a wipe. I fail to get it. Next turn I have a 7/7 prime time, and avenger, and 7 7/8 plant tokens coming at me. Short Game.
Kaerveck leads with an early Sanguine Bond, and some sort of punisher thing, to keep himself even. Having played that deck before, I know its going to come down to a race. Details are a bit sketchy, but I know I was lowest on life most of the game, primarily due to my Phyrexian Arena, Bloodgift Demon, and later Bitterblossom. Things got hairy when a Mana Barbs hit the field. I start trying to pump out mana (Thawing + Vesuva, into Thawing + temple later, with Nirkana Revenant later), while swinging with available options at Kaerveck. Once I drop to 13 life, I know I can't wait anymore. Thanks to the revenant, I launch a 16 point exsanguinate, dropping to 1 life off of Mana Barbs, hoping no one has a bolt. It passes, bringing me to a comfortable 33. Riku is at 5, and Kaerveck is just under 10 as well. Kaerveck drops to 1 on his turn to play something impressive, but can't touch my position. He tries to kill Riku for second place, but Riku kills himself off instead, to deny him the kill. Even though it was Kaervecks mana barbs that technically killed him. Whatever, it was his choice. It works, darn it!
I never played Sheoldred, sadly, so it really doesn't matter who my General was this game. Sadness
Game 3: vs. Sek'Kuar Reanimator, Szadeck Mill, Borborygymos beats, Sliver Queen Good Stuff, Riku Good Stuff.
I open with an amazing hand, going turn 1 Winding Canyons, Skull clamp, then adding a sol ring and mana rock turn 2, into a turn 3 skinrender clamped.
Sliver Queen, (piloted by my brother), knows to shut me down and paths my skinrender when I attack him, denying my cards (failed to play my sac outlet first). He then breaks my clamp shortly after, when I play a reassembling skeletons, also removing my skeletons first with a Nezumi Graverobber preventing my hopeful shenanigans. I'm stuck on 2 lands and a Corpse Dance, with no creatures in the yard. Szadeck mills me for 5, and I get... nothing. Szadeck does have a Howling Mine out, and also played a Memory Erosion. I start Corpse Danceing for a hope on the mill. I whiff repeatedly.
Sliver Queen in the mean time has a full grip, and an active reanimator. Borborygimos has double strike, and is pounding faces. Sek Kuar has Black Mikeaus, and is ramping like a mad man. Riku is mana screwed.
Game turns around in my favor when I take a hit for 40 from Szadeck. At last, creatures. Sliver Queen is tapped out, I have the mana for a Buybacked Corpse. One of the creatures is Massacre Wurm. As all cards are milled at the same time, I choose the order, and the Wurm goes on top. I can't let that flipped Nezumi Graverobber have access to my Grave. In spite, the next turn SQ kills my sac outlet.
Riku player has to leave due to time (11:30p) so he misses the fun part next. On my turn, I consider my options and pass. SQ jokes about my buyback dance and the Massacre Wurm, and me killing off his Harmonic Sliver before his turn so that I can save my attrition. I don't know if he sees my real plan. My first land of the game was Winding Canyons.
Szadeck Increasing Mills me for 8, I pretend to consider this, but then allow it. In the 8 are Blood Artist, Falkenrath Noble, Dross Harvestor and Mikeaus the Unhallowed. Already in my Grave, thanks to the 40 mill, is a Kokusho, the Evening Star, and a Disciple of Griselbrand, among a mass of other creatures.
Szadeck attacks SQ, Milling him.
Borb attacks SekKuar, placing him at 5. End of borbs turn, I play and activate Balthor. Triggers go everywhere, since everyone's been milling, Everyone has Red (or black), and graveyard pruning has failed to keep up. My only trigger is Massacre, but at least it's above Borbs mass of Flayer of the Hatebound triggers.
Sek Kuar Has a Disciple of Bolas, but Szadeck's Underworld Dreams keeps him at the same life total. I drain 2 life from Borb, and gain 2 from the harvester. Massacre Wurm goes off, and people lose life. 12 creatures died, Massacre kills off SekKuar, and I have 24 combined Blood Artist and Noble triggers. I Drain Borb. Gain 48 total life from Artist/Noble/Harvestor. Borb's Flayer Undies, and he shoots me. I allow it, but then mill 5 due to Szadeck's Mindcrank. My library is now under 20 cards. Not wanting to mill more when the mass of Flayer triggers still on the stack resolve, I tap my last land to sacrifice Kokusho to the Disciple of Griselbrand (gain 6), and Drain the remaining 3 players for 5 each. This kills Borb, saving me from triggers of doom. I am now at exactly 100 life.
I declare done with Borb's turn. Sliver Queen starts, fails to draw, and decks. Szadeck, at 19, assesses my army, and scoops. I also had Disciple of Griselbrand, Kokusho, the evening star, and Corpse Dance in my hand. I think I could have exactly sacrificed Kokusho 4 times on my turn, If I so chose. But that hardly mattered.
Kokusho made a difference in that game, saving me from doom Flayer triggers, which would likely have put me around 3-4 cards left in my library. I'd still have won, but it would have opened up some instants from Szadeck, maybe.
Earlier in the night, I also got to see a Vampire Tribal Olivia Deck, drop a legit 5 vampire Malakir Bloodwitch. I perked up to see what happened. Everyone lost 5, he gained 20, game moved on. It later got exiled when he tried to do something fancy.
===
Next week will be my playgroup's last week of testing Kokusho.
Game 1: Karn, Phage, Karona, Edric. An early Omen Machine throws this game into a weird beginning. A lot of wraths and exiling occurs, eventually, Karn has a dead Triskellion, that I rez with Dark Mikeaus out and declare game over. I really don't remember much more of this one. I think Mikeaus may come out, he's not what I'm trying to test.
Game 2: Karn, Merieke, Godo, Edric: I take a few early exchanges, but a Stigma Lasher hits the field, I fight valiantly, but eventually two players conspire against me, removing my blocking options, and I get an Emblem of anti-lifegain. I eventually pull out the Mikeaus/Kokusho/Griselbrand/etc. But was at 7 life, and had no sac outlet, so Grisel was useless. Kokusho was useless. I died to a spikeshot elder wielding an Argentum Armor.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Here's my write up from the Koku test thread for this week.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Coming in are Shriekmaw and Skinrender to take care of removal option, Hell's Caretaker as an additional resurrection effect (I need more without being able to depend on Chainer), Malakir Bloodwitch as another Special K effect.
A few vampires got shuffled in, replacing similar cards.
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
Creatures - 25
2 Blood Artist
2 Bloodghast
2 Kalastria Highborn
2 Nether Traitor
2 Nezumi Graverobber
2 Reassembling Skeleton
3 Dross Harvester
4 Bloodline Keeper
4 Falkenrath Noble
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Hell's Caretaker
4 Sangromancer
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Skinrender
5 Bloodgift Demon
5 Chainer, Dementia Master - or Kokusho
5 Shriekmaw
5 Malakir Bloodwitch
6 Dread
6 Duplicant
6 Harvester of Souls
6 Nirkana Revenant
6 Steel Hellkite
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
8 Griselbrand
Artifacts - 13
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Skullclamp
2 Spawning Pit
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Mimic Vat
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Rings of Brighthearth
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Vedalken Orrery
3 Extraplanar Lens
5 Gauntlet of Power
6 Caged Sun
2 Bitterblossom
2 Oversold Cemetery
3 Attrition
3 Infernal Tribute
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Grave pact
4 Strands of Night
Spells - 10
General - 5
3 Corpse Dance
3 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Dread Return
5 Beacon of Unrest
8 Decree of Pain
2x Exsanguinate
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Beseech the Queen
4 Diabolic Tutor
------
Mana Rocks - 9
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Sol Ring
2 Charcoal Diamond
2 Star Compass
3 Coalition Relic
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Pristine Talisman
3 Skull of Ramos
Land - 35
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Winding Canyons
1 Buried Ruin
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Temple of the false god
1 Deserted temple
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Vesuva
1 Petrified Field
1 High Market
1 Terrain Generator
19 Swamp
3 sac lands - for crucible use
Took me 10,000 hours in Photoshop. I swear.
Examining:
1-shot
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Thanks!
The deck is quite fun, and quite resilient, but as shown last night (and a few other times) still has a few weaknesses. It is rather strong, and doesn't lean on Kokusho, though Special K is a rather strong recovery effect to fuel the life loss the deck incurs. Many games my life can fluctuate +/- 30 life a round. I will probably keep a version of this deck around even after the Kokusho tests are over, replacing her with some other form of recovery. I like the vampire package right now, they work well with Chainer.
The biggest surprise player in here is probably Dross harvester. He looked decent on paper, even with the pain, but is even more effective than I had primarily anticipated. I expected to flash him out/reanimate him when needed and have his gain around 8-10 life. Instead, he typically gains me on the scale of 20-30. I'm just waiting for a token deck to run into a wrath.
That said, the Avacyn last night has me rethinking my wrath package. Decree of pain hasn't impressed me much, and I want more out of my wraths. Living Death is a given, and just a brutal oversight on my part. Black Sun's Zenith also now seems necessary in here.
I may also add Black Balthor as an option for resurrection, and potential trial as the Commander. He can serve a similar role as Chainer.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I did end up merging two games into my game 4 in the last post, so I thought I'd correct that, as well as add in another viewpoint that was related to me:
Game 4 and 5 are now split apart (I swear, I didn't think it was that late...) and there is a view from my brother on the 1v1.
Game 1 (Kokusho) vs Teysa, Teysa, Edric: An early bitterblossom gave me some tokens to use as chump change and card draw with Edric out. I kept an opening hand with bojuka bog and phyrexian tower as my lands, but managed to work with that to tutor for a Thawing Glaciers to work up my mana base. I dropped an early Oblivion Stone and sat on it for a while, fate countering a bunch of mana doublers. I killed off Edric quickly, once I was established. My life total went up and down a lot through the game, as my deck hurts me a lot. Kokusho died and returned 3 times (twice to Dread Return, once to a Sword of Light and Shadow which was hurting both Teysas), but only after Edric died, so I only ever gained 25 life off of Kokusho, no small amount, though Dross Harvestor was competing with 32 life gained (and 8 dealt). The Teysas were a problem, but an early Phyrexian tower managed to save the important things, and I ended the game with 2 mana doublers out (Gauntlet, Lens) and a Nirkana Revenant on my Mimic Vat, which was killing people left and right.
Game 2: Chainer vs. Treacherous Glissa. THIS is where the battle now begins. My introduction of Chainer/Kokusho has brought my brother's Glissa Deck out of retirement. This is a bauble-returning deck that hates on artifacts, hates on creatures, and hates on graveyards. An early Scrabbling claws puts serious pressure on me as all my resources in the grave are removed. An early Viridian Longbow takes out my Skinrender before I'm ready for it, and he gets exiled, which severely limits my options at killing my brother's Glissa. To prevent Claws sac/draw/return I start taking a lot of Commander hits. He gets his Loxodon Warhammer, which seriously puts a clock on me, so I tutor for an O-stone. Glissa being the cheater that she is returns the Lox, and he Death-touch tramples over my Kokusho and Nirkana Revenant 1-1-4 to me for the General kill. The game was a race for me to get established, and for him to put General Damage on while denying my resources. Acidic Slime took out my early phyrexian tower, then an Eternal Witness returned it to take out my coffers. A Sylcok Replica answered my Extraplanar Lens, which was a gamble, but I was desperate. Of course, the Scrabbling Claws exiled about 12-14 cards from my graveyard. A Molder Slug kept incidental artifacts on my side down as well. Glissa ended the game at 40 life, having gained 12-20 off of the lox. Kokusho died once (well, twice, but I died the second time), so I only stabilized 5 life off of her, which ended up being inconsequential due to Commander damage.
Game 3: Chainer vs. Glissa, Kangee, Teysa. I open up with a tutor to get Thawing Glaciers + Deserted Temple going, with a few mana rocks. Glissa opens with an early Kiku, but has problems with a lack of green mana. Kiku keeps my side of the board clean of creatures as I keep dredging out lands, Glissa also bogs my graveyard. Kangee is stuck on 4 islands, all of which were in his opeing hand. Teysa has drops a Divinity and starts taking out chunks of my life total, which Glissa is happy to allow. This is followed by the Black chancellor, and then an untimely (for everyone else) Avacyn, while Kiku is tapped. I had just tutored for a Decree of Pain, but was 1 mana short the turn previous of playing it. I manage to buy a turn by cycling it, but get nothing, and both Kangee and Glissa have already scooped. I get nothing to save me on the draw, and scoop as well.
Game 4: Chainer vs. Glissa, Kangee, Teysa. I hurt myself a fair amount early on, and ramp up a bit using Crucible of Worlds + a sac land. An early Graveborn Muse gives me some small card draw, and dropping a creature every turn helps with Glissa having dropped a Genesis Chamber. Glissa is returning spellbombs left and right to draw cards off of myr dying, but my own Falkenrath Noble helps me a bit on that exchange as well. The noble dies a few times, but I eventually stick a mimic vat, which then gets a bloodline keeper on it, so that I can make a Keeper on the end step to get 2 tokens out of him. I draw into Griselbrand, and even only activating him once a turn allows me to take over the game dropping a Gravepact and Infernal Tribute. I also get a Rings of Brighthearth out, which lets me do stupid things with crucible+sac, as well as the mimic vat with the keeper on it (and Grisel, of course). I take out Glissa with an army of flyers, while a Sword of Light and Shadow allows me direct face beats to both Kangee and Teysa. Kokusho did emerge this game, but I don't recall how often.
Game 5: Kokusho vs. Sek Kuar, Teysa:With the grave hate (mostly) gone, I fair a bit better. I still eat a bog from Sek Kuar, who also has a Prime Time doing shenanigans. I again don't find my coffers, but a Thawing Glaciers + Rings of Brighthearth are at least keeping me up somewhat high, though nothing in comparison to Prime Time. Kokusho trades with Prime Time twice, thanks to a skull clamp I have. I ride Kokusho wielding a Sword of Light and Shadow and Skullclamp to victory. I take out Sek Kuar, and then Teysa scoops shortly after. Kokusho died twice that game, chump blocking Primeval Titan both times, gaining me 20 life. Falkenrath Noble and Blood Artist gained me 10-14 life together throughout the game, Kalastria Highborn an underwhelming 6, and Dross harvester something like 22 (and hit me for 8). Teysa stayed ahead of me in life the whole game until essentially the end, due to Suture priest, Soul warden, Soul's attendant, Sorin, lord of innistrad and some other lifelinker. Kokusho was brought back once by my own Dread Return (which then got bogged), and once by Sek Kuar's Living Death.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
With Kagemaro, first to suffer added to that, it should give me a good base of wrath effects that I can recur.
Also suggested as a powerhouse when I mentioned a consideration for black balthor in another thread was Noxious Ghoul, this requires a bit more heavy of a Zombie theme though, which would encroach on my Current vampires. It's something to take note of though and keep in mind.
I had also previously been looking at Bane of the Living since I use him in other decks for this role, but with the lack of to-hand reanimation in my deck, he's not so hot. He could definitely be examined for other decks that would run things like Decaying Soil, Oath of Ghouls, Oversold Cemetery, Phyrexian reclamation, etc etc.
Speaking of, if Kokusho takes the helm, Diabolic Servitude seems pretty cool.
In non-creature options, I now add Mutilate, Black Sun's Zenith, and Living Death/Living End as good options, and All is dust as another way to deal with pesky enchantments.
All Hallow's eve makes another decent mass-rez option.
So I have some work cut out for me this weakend for this deck.
Also, I really wanted a blue deck with Kokusho in it so that I could use Rite in the same deck to see what that feels like in a game. I was dead set on Sedris before, since a) I can never get him to work quite right, and it bugs me, and b) red gives me Sneak Attack and Flayer of the Hatebound and lots of other spiteful toys.
But now... when Noxious Ghoul was mentioned to me, it suddenly hit me that Grimgrin, corpse-born would be quite brutal with a Kokusho. Built in sac outlet on the commander, and he loves getting things back from the yard! I think he would also go a heavy to-hand route, and could use the Bane of the Living, and all the return-to-hand enchantments. Also, he adds Gravecrawler to the self-recurring clamp options, and adds trinket mage to find it, and all of that delicious creature based draw stuff, and Baleful strix to go with my academy ruins, and... and yeah, looks like a potentially stupid deck. Oh, and clones, of course. Because they're pretty cool.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Life's Finale is definitely a Chainer card. Less so any of the other alt. generals I want to experiment with. I'll have to add it to the list of considerations. The ability to recur a green player's Primeval Titan (though only one person in my group runs it at present, due to gentleman's agreement), is a very strong plus.
This deck is really a generic suicide-mono-black-control-reanimator in that I can run any of the options at the helm, but it really has centered more on Chainer as the lead choice.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
4 Balthor the defiled
Creatures - 25
2 Blood Artist
2 Bloodghast
2 Kalastria Highborn
2 Nether Traitor
2 Nezumi Graverobber
2 Reassembling Skeleton
3 Dross Harvester
4 Bloodline Keeper
4 Falkenrath Noble
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Hell's Caretaker
4 Sangromancer
4 Skinrender
5 Bloodgift Demon
5 Chainer, Dementia Master - or Kokusho
5 Kagemaro, First to suffer
5 Shriekmaw
6 Dread
6 Duplicant
6 Harvester of Souls
6 Kokusho, the evening star
6 Massacre Wurm
6 Nirkana Revenant
6 Steel Hellkite
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
Artifacts - 13
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Skullclamp
2 Spawning Pit
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Mimic Vat
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Rings of Brighthearth
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Vedalken Orrery
3 Extraplanar Lens
5 Gauntlet of Power
6 Caged Sun
2 Bitterblossom
2 Oversold Cemetery
3 Attrition
3 Infernal Tribute
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Grave pact
4 Strands of Night
Spells - 10
General - 6
3 Corpse Dance
3 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Dread Return
5 Beacon of Unrest
5 Living Death
2x Exsanguinate
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Beseech the Queen
4 Diabolic Tutor
------
Mana Rocks - 9
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Sol Ring
2 Charcoal Diamond
2 Star Compass
3 Coalition Relic
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Pristine Talisman
3 Skull of Ramos
Land - 35
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Winding Canyons
1 Buried Ruin
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Temple of the false god
1 Deserted temple
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Vesuva
1 Petrified Field
1 High Market
1 Terrain Generator
19 Swamp
3 sac lands - for crucible use
General:
-Kokusho
+Balthor, the defiled
Deck
-5 Malakir Bloodwitch
+6 Kokusho
-8 Decree of Pain
+5 Kagemaro, First to suffer
-4 Solemn Simulacrum
+6 Massacre Wurm
-8 Griselbrand (steals the show) (He will return, as a commander.)
+5 Living Death
This is what I'll be running this week.
Balthor will be exchangable with Kokusho, Chainer, and Griselbrand as the Commander.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
That said, I got 2 games in last week.
My usual Wednesday game was rather uninspiring, it was a 5 player game, Glissa and I were busy exiling each other's graveyards, multiple times. Szadeck dropped a Forced Fruition to try out the card. Karn had the following turn and drew 9/10s of his deck, and had lattice/forge/disk for the win, so we ignored him and played for second, but then Glissa drew 20 cards and 1 shot someone, and had a stacked GY, and the game ended shortly after. Uninspiring.
This weekend, I got to play another game, a 3 player versus Sliver Queen and a Vorosh reanimator. Sliver Queen pulls a Turn 2 Serra Ascendant, so I tutor for a Shriekmaw, but queen follows with the Lightning Greaves, so that kind of sucked. SQ pulls out a GY hate piece (Withered Wretch?) and I lose an early durdle, but Vorosh loses an attempted reanimation on a Sheoldred. I then tutor up a Massacre Wurm with Rune-scarred Demon which handles the little things. A Dread on my side of the board keeps the others off my back. Someone Wiped the board. I tutor up a Nihil Spellbomb, assassinate Vorosh's Graveyard with it, and follow up with a Bojuka Bog on SQ. I Balthor and activate, returning my dread army, with 3 6-power creatures and some small fries. Demon tutors for coffers, since I have urborg/vesuva/deserted temple in hand (can it get any more stupid?). Maybe a round passes by, but Vorosh uses Life's Finale. SQ kills my coffers. I activate balthor again, Demon tutors land recursion. I have some small fries and a Vedalken Orrery. I return the coffers. SQ attempts a Natural Balance with some small fries out, I use coffers to drop and activate Balthor a third time, wiping his side. I keep Cabal Coffers, Buried Ruin, Petrified Field, Deserted Temple, and a Swamp. Urborg is still in my hand to re-power coffers, and Crucible of Worlds is in my grave as a buried ruin target. Bog is now also conveniently in my grave. Opponents scoops as I start to tutor (again) off of the Demon.
So, Kokusho never saw play, though it wasn't for any lack of capability. I think I had about 6 tutors go off that game (3 off the Rune-Scarred Demon), but never felt heavily pressed for life, and didn't need another massive beater between Dread, Masascre Wurm, and Rune-Scarred Demon. Towards the end I was starting to not mind having some life, but I would probably have grabbed a Yawmoth's Will. I hadn't expected Balthor to be as effective, mainly believing him to be too mana-intensive to really abuse any recursion options. While I didn't get to abuse point reanimation as much, the mass-reanimation worked insanely well. Also, as this was the first time I got to use the Massacre Wurm and Dread, I was very happy with both.
I also recently realized (though it hasn't come up yet) that I actually do have an infinite combo in the deck in Cabal Coffers, Deserted Temple, and Rings of Brighthearth.
If any piece were to go, it would likely be the temple, as the rings fuel the crucible/sac-land ramp, as well as glaciers, while temple only serves glaciers/coffers, and there are other ways to fuel coffers. Not decided how much I care about this incidental combo though.
===
I didn't fiddle with the deck this weekend, so no changes for this week.
===
Also, for the large numbers of games versus Glissa, I am actually requesting this matchup, as Glissa is packing the most grave hate of any deck currently in my Meta. I still need to try to talk the Sek-Kuar deck into running Kokusho, for the mirror recursion abuse.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
The issue I have with my rendition of the deck, is the lack of any sort of way to win the game short of stealing creatures and beating face, or exsanguinate for a buttload. Played a game the other day where I tried to win without using exsanguinate and I had an assanine amount of board position, but took forever to close the deal on only two players. Maybe I should have been tutoring up more painful creatures and reanimating more deadly things, but the bladewing player kept forcing me to exile his graveyard.
I'm thinking that balthor and living death give you quite the advantage in board state over other players, and that I should consider adding living death and maybe putting balthor at the head of the deck instead of chainer whilst leaving chainer in. I also run things like puppeteer clique which give me a fair shot at a lot of other things in graveyards as well as a haste outlet for them.
Curious of your thoughts!
Card Discussion
Disciple of Griselbrand is a card that I've re-discovered in the last week or two, and he definitely needs in my deck. Serves multiple functions in a convenient, cheap body.
Griselbrand was actually pulled from my deck pre-banning (you can see in my latest incarnation). Even before I pulled him, I saw him one game, and he sealed it for me. He's exceedingly strong. Promise is not a bad idea, I've been considering another card draw method. I've been leaning more towards creature utility though since, well, we are playing reanimator.
Kokusho is a huge asset to the deck, I cannot lie. While I don't find myself tutoring for her much currently (especially as I added a bunch more lifegain into the deck), the drain really helps keep Chainer going. If you run the vampire suite (there are many good options), you can try Malakir Bloodwitch instead. It's no replacement, but she'll pay herself at the least.
Winning
I was worried initially with this deck about the top-heavy end of my curve in my creatures. Turns out it's not so bad. In the play report that follows, repeatedly returning 3 6-power creatures was good, it seems. Exsanguinate is good, but oddly enough (especially in my meta, I guess) I'm finding the one-shot effect less stellar.
Other options that I've found works well, depending on your meta, is the package of Stax creatures (Braids, Magus, and Sheoldred). Sheoldred also serves as a heck of a beatstick, and can be considered singly. Dark Mike also give extra reach to the deck. I pulled both sets since they were detracting from my Kokusho testing, and don't jive as well with my meta.
Balthor vs. Chainer
So, the play report that will follow (and the one above) will help a lot to explain Balthor's strengths.
While Chainer hurts, he does have a few major advantages.
Living Death was a card I overlooked initially as well. It's simply excellent in this deck. It's a wrath, and a reanimation spell in one, especially with the grave hate I run.
I've found that you really don't need to change how you tailor the deck too much between Balthor and Chainer. I'm sure you can optimize it more towards either, but my recommendation would be to toss Balthor at the head for a week, and just see how you like how he plays. I would however, suggest a lot of GY hate. It's useful to keep enemies down on reanimation targets.
=====
=====
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I was really pleased about this discovery. A convenient sac outlet with excellent lifegain, like you said on a cheap and convenient body.
I could see it, the card was bonkers. I went to magiccards.info and searched all black creatures with the word "draw" in the rules text. Of which, I think your list contains everything that's decent. Aside from MAYBE that one legendary guy who gives everyone a Phyrexian Arena affect. He would be nice to sac at the end of your turn, and recur right before yours.
I had thought about including a vampire package and bringing on the bloodwitch. Although I didn't like a majority of the vamps! They just felt weak.
Winning:
I run black mikaeus, braids, and magus. I may replace one of the stax with Sheoldred since she has a strong effect for not much more than braids or magus. I think I just need more testing, and need to be less of a stickler on mollesting peoples graveyards. I'd like to add scribbleclaws, but I haven't found what I want to cut yet.
I think I will have to add living death in place of one of my sorcery's and try it out. I think I will have to do what you said about testing balthor out and seeing how he works. Not sure if I pack enough grave hate to make him work though!
The lifegain is less needed with Blathor than with Chainer, and holding that much mana open is a pain. On the flipside, targeted Grave Hate doesn't get much better than the wretch.
I haven't had grave issues yet with Balthor, even in a 5 player game where everyone would have targets, but I was allso lucky to have an early removal piece.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Anyways, as my meta has decided to remove all holds, and I am starting to navigate a bit away from Kokusho-centric deck building, the following are returning/being added to the deck:
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is in.
Disciple of Griselbrand is in. Kalastria Highborn is out.
Braids, Cabal Minion, Smokestack and maybe Magus of the abyss will be returning. Shriekmaw will be coming out. Still examining other options.
Disciple of Bolas is coming in. Dear god does he rock awesomesocks.
I am also looking at Mindslicer once again. I used to run him in a 4/60 Gravepact deck, and I think the same principles can be applied here. Once I have control, I don't want people getting to use any more answers.
I also have two play reports from last night to write up, but it will need to wait until tonight, when I have my notes in front of me. Suffice to say, Blood Artist wins the MVP award, and caused more than 40 points of life loss+gain in each game. One game going over 80, and allowing me to do more than 40 points to myself with Chainer. That was stupidly disgusting.
My new favorite play is resurrecting as many blood artists in front of wraths as possible.
Here's my SHORT recap: (link to Hidden Gems thread) http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8680223
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Anywho. Teysa goes first, and leads with a turn 2 luminarch ascension. Going last, I drop a turn 2 Blood Artist, but my 0/1 isn't about to be able to take that task on alone. Teysa gets his 4th counter (and then some), and gets his turn 3 angel at the end of my turn. He follows up with a turn 4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and a turn 5 Elspeth, Knight Errant. Around this time, the 4th player leaves. Kaervek is mana-screwed but manages to drop his own blood artist, and I've managed to add a spawning pit and a bloodgift demon to my side. With a Beseech the queen in hand, (and a coffers out), I draw a Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor on the same turn. I advance my mana position off the beseech with a Deserted Temple, to not give too much information, and grab Xiahou dun, the one-eyed off my Demonic to re-abuse the tutors later. I leave a black open for the Vampiric.
Since Kaervek has no air protection, Teysa smashes him for a bunch, and I realize that I'm not quite ready to face Teysa alone, so I use my vampiric to find a wrath-effect to keep him around. I grab Kagemaro, First to Suffer. On my turn, I drop Kagemaro and leave a black open to activate. Teysa bites it, Castigates me to remove the one-eyed, and swings at Kaervek with intent to kill. I nuke Kagemaro, and at the end of the triggers, Kaervek is at about 20ish. I'm sitting comfortably above 40, and Teysa is in the low teens. Kaervek's Blood Artist has gotten exiled, and all my stuff is safely in my yard. Teysa makes some new tokens on my next end step, and puts Kaervek at 2, Kaervek punches him for two with a top-decked 2/2 pro-white zombie, so I activate balthor, returning a bunch of cheap stuff and discarded stuff from Kaervek and my utility army... and then use Kagemaro again to finish off with blood artist triggers.
Game 2 vs. Ghave, Sliver Queen tokens, Edric unblockables, Vorosh reanimator.
Ghave (previous teysa player) starts off the early scary stuff with a sterling grove, Mirari's wake, and other assorted stuff, into a Genesis Wave for 11, which happens to drop an Eternal Witness who then returns the wave promptly. And then he drops an Eldazi Monument. Yeah... issues. Sliver queen has tokens, people have taken a beating to draw cards off of Edric, I've had some minor land issues, coupled onto my Gauntlet of power being destroyed, and my Caged Sun O-ringed, both by Ghave.
Vorosh rips a tutor, and grabs an O-stone and hits it. It leaves Ghaves creatures, but gets rid of all the problem supports, like Wake and Monument. It also returns my sun. My Blood Artist nets me some life. I get a tutor, and not to find a trick stale, go find Kagemaro, First to Suffer again to finish the job. I then manage to assemble an Attrition, Dance of the Dead and Rune-scarred Demon in hand. It takes me about point-zero seconds to do the math, and do some pretty stupid things with it. Like get myself a Cabal Coffers to go with my Deserted Temple, allowing me to change its duty away from the Terrain Generator it had been abusing. Then I got a Chainer, who I proceed to abuse like the wind. My blood artist returns, as does kagemaro. Someone wraths, as I have killed Vorosh's Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger with attrition and stolen it with Chainer. Vorosh has a Dross Harvester. Mike's on the field again, so Kagemaro returns from his cost with a counter, allowing SQ to use Experiment Kraj as another kagemaro wipe in response to mine, to prevent Mike from keeping my side alive, and to make sure my Kagemaro didn't survive his own wrath, making something like 3 stacked wrath effects for whatever reason. The math gets a bit tricky on the triggers. I use chainer to resurrect two Phyrexian Metamorphs thinking to copy the Harvestor for a ton of cards... then realize with the graveyards stacked, and a Chainer, and a Dance of the Dead with a sac outlet... I'm not really needing a lot of cards. I double copy my artist, which each get 16 triggers for 48 life.
I proceed to abuse sac outlets, Dance of the Dead, Chainer, Dementia Master like the wind, easily sinking over 40 life into Chainer with no second thought. My Blood Artist goes wild. I'm bringing back Chainer, resurrecting other people's stuff, and then saccing Chainer to exile their stuff. Awesomeness is happening. At one point, I note that Vorosh pitched a ton of cool stuff, so I resurrect Chainer, use chainer to resurrect his Havengul Lich, Sac chainer, and in response to Chainer's exile nightmares trigger, activate the lich targetting chainer, activate Winding Canyons and resurrect Chainer for good so I can stop doing my silly dance routine. Sexy.
Edric tries the Vorinclex thing, but it ends the same way with Attrition + Chainer. Vorosh goes for a living death, I resurrect Kagemaro, First to suffer in response and wipe my side, dealing 7 with the blood artist, and putting my field in the grave for the living death. We resolve an insane amount of triggers (stacked graves), and I pop Kagemaro for another mid-20 point Blood Artist blood bath. At this point, I've gained over 80 life on the Blood Artist, and it's now down to me and Vorosh. Life totals: me @ 86, Vorosh @ 17. On my turn, I toss out balthor, activate to have fun resolving a bunch more triggers, and then cast my own Living Death for the wipe, and for the style, because even Kagemaro shouldn't have to do all the work himself.
MVP of the night: Blood Artist, which somehow ended up being my main source of eliminating opponents in both games.
Combined in both games, I think I attacked for less than 20 damage, and that was mostly with small utility guys for card draw off of Edric.
Those two dice above the cards are two Spawning Pit tokens (the pit got exiled). My life is at 73. Blood Artist was the only source of lifegain this game.
The creatures are Kagemaro, First to Suffer and Runescarred Demon, the only two survivors (post-mikeaus return) of me using Kagemaro.
The top card in my GY is Chainer. This is where I abuse the CHAINER+DANCE+ATTRITION like the wind.
The land behind the Terrain Generator is Winding Canyons. It is in Korean, which is why it appears to have no title in this blurry picture.
The land behind the Cabal Coffers is a Deserted Temple. Their proximity to each other indicates nothing. I swear. They are untapped because with Dance of the Dead, Chainer, Dementia Master, and Winding Canyons, there is nothing that I care to do at sorcery speed.
WAY LATE EDIT:
All Dance of the Dead references are actually supposed to be Corpse Dance, which will make a lot more sense in context.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
7/14/2012: vs. Kaerveck and Kaerveck!
7/18/2012: vs. Teneb Tokens, Niv wheels, and Animar artifact splooge.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Game 2: (As Sheoldred, Whispering One) vs. Kaerveck the merciless Punisher, Riku of two reflections Good Stuff.
Game 3: vs. Sek'Kuar Reanimator, Szadeck Mill, Borborygymos beats, Sliver Queen Good Stuff, Riku Good Stuff.
Earlier in the night, I also got to see a Vampire Tribal Olivia Deck, drop a legit 5 vampire Malakir Bloodwitch. I perked up to see what happened. Everyone lost 5, he gained 20, game moved on. It later got exiled when he tried to do something fancy.
===
Next week will be my playgroup's last week of testing Kokusho.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek