Well baneslayer and angel of despair definitely do belong on the list, and there's no shortage of things that can go. Serra Angel is just strictly worse than Baneslayer so cut that first. 38 lands is just fine, plus you have some mana artifacts. How much of a budget are you on? If you're going to seriously build Kaalia you need to invest in some heavy duty creatures like Griselbrand, Reya Dawnbringer, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Akroma, Angel of Fury, Karmic Guide, and Rune-Scarred Demon. You also want early fast mana like Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond, and Chrome Mox, anything to get Kaalia out and attacking earlier. Both boots (Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves) are definitely worth their spots in Kaalia as are utility things like Phyrexian Arena. I have never really run across a budget Kaalia deck where I play, but if you are on a budget at least try to squeeze Griselbrand in there.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
I have a question about the Restoration Angel (why is it a must in the list??)
I could get one, just didnt want to waste 5 euro if the card isnt that great....
Just wanna know, so I maybe get why its needed in the deck... am currently working on a Kaalia Deck as wel.. and mine is nowhere near finished.....
btw, I would also say:
Take out the following for sure: seizan, perverter of truth - gives the opponents to much cards... serra angel" target="blank">serra angel - almost any other 5 drop angel would be better.... archangel - Also cost to efficiency rating is just not that great... thunderous wrath - dont get why its in there.... seems a bit random...
scourglass - would be better to run Oblivion Stone or something along the lines of Akroma's Vengeance or Wrath of God, Damnation, Catastrophe, Armageddon, Desolation Angel" target="blank">Desolation Angel or anything else similar...
I see you got a theme there, and I think the previous posters didnt get that....
Its a theme with tokens and sacrificing them, I get that... realy like how you made it a different deck then the obvious choices so to say....
(didnt add alot of the weaker cards, due to them fitting the theme, although some are realy underpowered....)
some more card suggestions, for better draw, destruction and such: Griselbrand - awesome card draw is awesome... Chaos Warp - Get that treat out of here.... (tucks opponents generals...) Reaper from the Abyss - with your sacrificing, oppenents creatures die...
btw, seeing your token/sacrifice theme, I would suggest playing that in a Ghave Deck, its overall a better general for such a theme.... (just a suggestion.....)
If you want to go more with a Kaalia deck, then tokens isnt realy what its supposed to do..... (I played Ghave, stopped playing it, cause people didnt wanna play against it anymore.... that's how annoying the deck is....)
--- could even give you some tips on building a Ghave deck if you like...
(not that I have the best list or the most knowledge with it, but had alot of succes with my build at least....)
Restoration Angel is merely OK in Kaalia. You lose a lot not being able to blink your Angels, and it's 4 mana so you don't really get much value cheating it into play, it has flash so you can give it pseudo-haste with less main-phase disruption so cheating it in also isn't great from that point of view either. On the plus side, it does blink Rune-Scarred Demon and can save Kaalia from targetted removal. On the whole, I think it's something you don't really want here though.
Well baneslayer and angel of despair definitely do belong on the list, and there's no shortage of things that can go. Serra Angel is just strictly worse than Baneslayer so cut that first. 38 lands is just fine, plus you have some mana artifacts. How much of a budget are you on? If you're going to seriously build Kaalia you need to invest in some heavy duty creatures like Griselbrand, Reya Dawnbringer, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Akroma, Angel of Fury, Karmic Guide, and Rune-Scarred Demon. You also want early fast mana like Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond, and Chrome Mox, anything to get Kaalia out and attacking earlier. Both boots (Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves) are definitely worth their spots in Kaalia as are utility things like Phyrexian Arena. I have never really run across a budget Kaalia deck where I play, but if you are on a budget at least try to squeeze Griselbrand in there.
everything except the mox diamond and mana crypt is in my range but I might even try for the diamond
You should definitely add the relevant signets for mana ramping. They are also not expensive to acquire.
Sadly, Debtor's Knell is not quite good enough in most multiplayer metas. It costs 7 mana, and it doesn't do anything immediately when it enters the battlefield. It most likely will be destroyed before your next turn. You are better off with Beacon of Unrest, Animate Dead, and Necromancy.
I have it, but I don't run it often (i.e. I sometimes take it out). I keep it around if I think I'm going to be dealing with a token player (Ghave, Guru of Spores or Rhys the Redeemed) or a player with a low toughness general (oh look, Kaalia is one of them!). Black Sun's Zenith becomes a cheap 3 or 4 CMC token sweeper.
In Commander/EDH, you often encounter a lot of large creatures, so Black Sun's Zenith will shrink them down, but you probably won't eliminate a lot this way. For example, if somebody puts Darksteel Colossus on the battlefield, you would need 13 mana to get rid of it.
If you play with people who use a lot of indestructible creatures, you should go for Hallowed Burial or Terminus isntead.
I have it, but I don't run it often (i.e. I sometimes take it out). I keep it around if I think I'm going to be dealing with a token player (Ghave, Guru of Spores or Rhys the Redeemed) or a player with a low toughness general (oh look, Kaalia is one of them!). Black Sun's Zenith becomes a cheap 3 or 4 CMC token sweeper.
In Commander/EDH, you often encounter a lot of large creatures, so Black Sun's Zenith will shrink them down, but you probably won't eliminate a lot this way. For example, if somebody puts Darksteel Colossus on the battlefield, you would need 13 mana to get rid of it.
If you play with people who use a lot of indestructible creatures, you should go for Hallowed Burial or Terminus isntead.
Despite having that awesome Demon Dragon subtype, Malfegor seems pretty awful in Kaalia. For starters, you have much better removal options in your colors. Secondly, discarding your hand in a deck that tends to drop cards quickly to begin with seems bad. I'd probably run Dragon Mage in its place to help keep your hand full.
Hey, I just want to put out there that probably the single best creature/tutor target in Kaalia is Master of Cruelties. Being able to one-shot somebody off at any point in the game is very, very powerful. Drop it in with Kaalia, it goes unblocked (this trigger is during the declare blockers step, before damage) putting them to one, then Kaalia's damage kills them.
heres a deck that use in multiplayer games and it can also be use in 1v1. i havent made too many updates to it since RTR block came out. i have most cards for it just been too lazy to put them in and or ive been working on other edh decks
just out of curiosity, should i run more mana rocks in my deck?
Looking at your list, yes. Run at least all the signets and maybe other 2 cc rocks so you can bring Kaalia out on turn 3.
edit: I was looking at your original list. The second one is much better. I would maybe run something like coldsteel heart over chromatic lantern for the lower cost but it looks fine.
If Kaalia and Victory's Herald attack, and Kaalia puts into play Master of Cruelties, does Master gain flying from the Herald?
If they both are declared as attackers, put Herald's trigger on the stack first, then Kaalia's on top of it. Kaalia will put a guy on board tapped and attacking - Herald will see a creature that is attacking, and thus, give it flying and lifelink. If you put Kaalia's trigger on the stack first, and then Herald's, then no, by the time the target is placed onto the board Herald's ability will have already resolved.
That said, Victory's Herald is still a bad choice for a Kaalia target (there are at least forty others I would play before even looking at this card...and your list features a lot of similarly suboptimal choices at present, a lot of them for the same reason as the Herald). She has what I like to call "Flameblast Syndrome" which means she only does something when being declared as an attacker. These creatures are bad because Kaalia puts the creature on the board attacking, missing the first trigger (so they just swing for damage...this is how Rakdos the Defiler works beneficially for us). Swing by my Primer (link in sig) for suggestions on what makes a good Kaalia target, and what makes a poor choice.
I'll start off with the list:
1x kaalia of the vast
creatures (28)
1x akroma, angel of wrath
1x seizan, perverter of truth
1x avacyn, angel of hope
1x teysa, orzov scion
1x archangel
1x loxodon gatekeeper
1x rakdos pit dragon
1x fallen angel
1x blood artist
1x serra angel
1x shattered angel
1x archwing dragon
1x shivan dragon
1x demonlord of ashmouth
1x nantuko shade
1x harvester of souls
1x voice of the provinces
1x deathless angel
1x archon of justice
1x requiem angel
1x emeria angel
1x flameblast dragon
1x angelic overseer
1x victory's herald
1x herald of war
1x suture priest
1x ravenous demon
1x sunblast angel
1x caged sun
1x scourglass
1x rakdos signet
1x culling scales
1x angel's tomb
1x sol ring
enchantments (5)
1x exquisite blood
1x curse of exhaustion
1x proper burial
1x ghostly prison
1x commander's authority
sorceries (12)
1x excommunicate
1x day of judgement
1x killing wave
1x diabolic tutor
1x culling sun
1x sudden disappearance
1x thoughts of ruin
1x sunscour
1x phyrexian rebirth
1x barter in blood
1x wildfire
1x praetor's grasp
instants (10)
1x condemn
1x increasing vengeance
1x thunderous wrath
1x shining shoal
1x spare from evil
1x banishing stroke
1x choking fumes
1x gravepurge
1x consume the meek
1x beacon of immortality
13x plains
9x mountain
6x swamp
1x orzhov basilica
1x cavern of souls
1x seraph sanctuary
1x ghost quarter
1x terramorphic expanse
1x battlefield forge
1x caves of koilos
1x evolving wilds
1x vault of the archangel
1x blackcleave cliffs
still needs a lot of work since this is just something I came up with last night and haven't played it yet.
here's stuff that I'm considering adding:
1x boros signet
1x orzhov signet
1x debtor's knell
1x baneslayer angel
tell me what else would work in here and tell me if I am running the right amount of lands
Add: Akroma, Angel of Wrath, Angel of Despair, Moonveil Dragon, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Karmic Guide, Scourge of Kher Ridges, Restoration Angel, and probably tons more I haven't thought of.
On Mythic Rares: "What's next, Wizards will print six golden Black Lotuses and randomly place them in boosters, and if someone gets one, they get to tour the Wizards facility?"
Wydwen|Edric|Sakashima|Marrow-Gnawer|Hazezon
8.5 Tails|Seton|Rasputin|Doran|Gisela|Karona|Márton
Restoration Angel is merely OK in Kaalia. You lose a lot not being able to blink your Angels, and it's 4 mana so you don't really get much value cheating it into play, it has flash so you can give it pseudo-haste with less main-phase disruption so cheating it in also isn't great from that point of view either. On the plus side, it does blink Rune-Scarred Demon and can save Kaalia from targetted removal. On the whole, I think it's something you don't really want here though.
everything except the mox diamond and mana crypt is in my range but I might even try for the diamond
pretty much everything you told me to cut was just filler anyways
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=364660
I have my own list as well:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=391501
You should definitely add the relevant signets for mana ramping. They are also not expensive to acquire.
Sadly, Debtor's Knell is not quite good enough in most multiplayer metas. It costs 7 mana, and it doesn't do anything immediately when it enters the battlefield. It most likely will be destroyed before your next turn. You are better off with Beacon of Unrest, Animate Dead, and Necromancy.
beacon of unrest would be cool since it is reusable
what about black sun's zenith?
I have it, but I don't run it often (i.e. I sometimes take it out). I keep it around if I think I'm going to be dealing with a token player (Ghave, Guru of Spores or Rhys the Redeemed) or a player with a low toughness general (oh look, Kaalia is one of them!). Black Sun's Zenith becomes a cheap 3 or 4 CMC token sweeper.
In Commander/EDH, you often encounter a lot of large creatures, so Black Sun's Zenith will shrink them down, but you probably won't eliminate a lot this way. For example, if somebody puts Darksteel Colossus on the battlefield, you would need 13 mana to get rid of it.
If you play with people who use a lot of indestructible creatures, you should go for Hallowed Burial or Terminus isntead.
those are both cards I should consider as well
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
yeah, just put the link and name of the link in your sig
but vamp tutor and terminus would be sick
4 Kaalia of the vast
creatures
4 loxodon gatekeeper
4 solemn simulacrum
4 restoration angel
4 rakdos, lord of riots
5 bloodgift demon
5 archangel of thune
5 scourge of valkas
5 seizan, perverter of truth
5 herald of war
5 thundermaw hellkite
5 karmic guide
6 adarkar valkyrie
6 aurelia, the warleader
6 reaper from the abyss
6 hoard smelter dragon
6 malfegor
6 yosei, the morning star
6 harvester of souls
6 mordant dragon
6 angelic skirmisher
6 hellkite charger
6 victory's herald
7 balefire dragon
7 gisela, blade of goldnight
7 rune-scarred demon
7 angel of despair
8 tombstalker
8 akroma, angel of wrath
8 avacyn, angel of hope
8 akroma, angel of wrath
9 reya dawnbringer
1 sol ring
2 orzhov signet
2 boros signet
2 rakdos signet
2 lightning greaves
2 swiftfoot boots
3 damping matrix
3 chromatic lantern
4 general's kabuto
enchantments
3 phyrexian arena
5 exquisite blood
6 warstorm surge
instants/sorceries
2 mizzium mortars
2 dreadbore
2 molten disaster
3 praetor's grasp
4 wrath of god
4 diabolic tutor
4 thoughts of ruin
4 Armageddon
4 mutilate
4 day of judgment
5 culling sun
5 consume the meek
5 obdezat's aid
5 unburial rites
6 wildfire
6 mindblaze
6 beacon of immortality
6 sudden disappearance
tell me your thoughts
here's what I still want
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
1 Kaalia of the Vast
Creatures:
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Angelic Arbiter
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Angel of Despair
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Rakdos the Defiler
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Blinding Angel
1 Karmic Guide
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Reya Dawnbringer
1 Mother of Runes
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Sun Titan
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Lord of the Void
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Sepulchral Primordial
Spells:
1 Terminate
1 Day of Judgment
1 Return to Dust
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
1 Path to Exile
1 Oblation
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Reanimate
1 Vindicate
1 Chaos Warp
1 Havok Festival
1 Debtors' Knell
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Animate Dead
1 Phyrexian Arena
Artifact:
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Quicksilver Amulet
1 Sol Ring
1 Boros Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Mimic Vat
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Jeweled Amulet
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Fire Diamond
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Marble Diamond
Planeswalker:
1 Sorin Markov
Lands:
1 Arid Mesa
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Badlands
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Command Tower
1 Blood Crypt
1 Plateau
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Graven Cairns
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Plains
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
1 City of Brass
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Maze of Ith
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
1 Fetid Heath
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Thespian's Stage
I think it depends on if you stacked the triggers correctly.
Looking at your list, yes. Run at least all the signets and maybe other 2 cc rocks so you can bring Kaalia out on turn 3.
edit: I was looking at your original list. The second one is much better. I would maybe run something like coldsteel heart over chromatic lantern for the lower cost but it looks fine.
If they both are declared as attackers, put Herald's trigger on the stack first, then Kaalia's on top of it. Kaalia will put a guy on board tapped and attacking - Herald will see a creature that is attacking, and thus, give it flying and lifelink. If you put Kaalia's trigger on the stack first, and then Herald's, then no, by the time the target is placed onto the board Herald's ability will have already resolved.
That said, Victory's Herald is still a bad choice for a Kaalia target (there are at least forty others I would play before even looking at this card...and your list features a lot of similarly suboptimal choices at present, a lot of them for the same reason as the Herald). She has what I like to call "Flameblast Syndrome" which means she only does something when being declared as an attacker. These creatures are bad because Kaalia puts the creature on the board attacking, missing the first trigger (so they just swing for damage...this is how Rakdos the Defiler works beneficially for us). Swing by my Primer (link in sig) for suggestions on what makes a good Kaalia target, and what makes a poor choice.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.