I played this card back in the day, and it was good but not great. With an increase to the blink/bounce deck, more quality value/ETB creautres and creature heavy U/X tempo decks seeing more play, is this card as potentially oppressive/abusable as it looks?
You're down a card and four mana before you see any benefit from it - in addition to that, all your creatures cost 1 more if you want to get the effect and it's not particularly abuseable. I mean, getting a "4 mana second capsize" out of Man-O-War or Aether Adept is kinda the best case scenario, but that only works at sorcery speed.
I personally don't like it but I could see arguments for it.
I am about the biggest Crystal Shard and Erratic Portal fan out there, so I ran it for a while. The problem is, blue is so damn good (at 450, at least) that it doesn't need or want dedicated build around me cards like this (same for Opposition, which I saw you posted). You might end up with a more interesting blue section if you start running cards like this, but it will definitely be less versatile and powerful.
It has potential but also has some major flaws that keep it from being consistently powerful.
Unlike crystal shard you usually cant get the effect the turn you play it because you have to drop a creature in addition to your 3 mana investment + 1 to trigger the ability. This makes it worse than capsize for stopping early bleeding without the ability to completely shut out a game later. Spending a turn's worth of mana to set up for later isn't what I generally want to be doing in a blue based tempo deck and holding Equilibrium until I have 3 mana free to drop it isn't what I want to be doing with the card, I want to get the trigger on as many of my creatures as possible.
It is also awkward for reusing citp abilities because it triggers when you cast the creature. You need another creature in your hand to return one in play and often can only get the effect you want every other turn even while spending most or all of your mana.
If creature heavy control decks were more common the card would be great but as is it probably just keeps Tradewind Rider company.
Its a card I like a lot, I pushed in hard when I was at 450. I think from a purly power perspective that it is not good enough. In any other color it would have been great, but blue is too stacked.
I don't have experience but my guess is that when you can fit this card into your curve, in a blue tempo deck, it could be quite good. However I simply doubt this card is good enough at smaller sizes. As Happy Gilmore said, this card would be sweet in other colors but a lot of blue decks don't want to tap out on turn three for this aggressive as a card, and I think this is just clunky for the way cubes (especially on this forum) have been trending lately toward the efficient and away from the durdly 5-color control dominated cubes of yore. It just asks too much to be effective at 450. I could see testing it around 600 it's probably solid.
I mean, getting a "4 mana second capsize" out of Man-O-War or Aether Adept is kinda the best case scenario, but that only works at sorcery speed.
that is far from the bcs, in fact that's exactly how you shouldn't use this card. the idea is is to only rebuy things worth it in the late game, while actually make that 1 mana worth more than 1 to your opponent. contrary to popular opinion blue dudes can and should turn sideways aggressively, and an equilibrium will help make sure you connect by keeping the opponent's board clear.
i really dislike the way people's minds try to comapre anything that bounces anything to capsize. that's like the most impossibly ridiculous standard to hold a card to. you're basically saying "i don't think this card is good enough because it's not a utility spell with a built in late game win con"
anyway, yeah equilib is cool and can be good but only if your blue section is looking to get beats on.
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in fact that's exactly how you shouldn't use this card.
So you're saying a four mana capsize is bad?
i really dislike the way people's minds try to comapre anything that bounces anything to capsize. that's like the most impossibly ridiculous standard to hold a card to.
Hyperbole much?
Not every bounce spell has been compared to Capsize right off the bat, and Capsize isn't even good enough for a lot of cubes anymore so saying it's the most impossibly ridiculous standard to hold a card to is "impossibly ridiculous" itself.
I don't understand how in the same breath you can say that a four mana capsize is terrible but capsize itself is the most insane standard. O.o
I tested it and cut it. It was a lot of fun but ultimately less consistant than other effects of a similar nature. I don't think blue tempo needs or warrants the narrow support to be good - play cards that are also good in more traditional blue archetypes.
FWIW, being able to cast this on my own stuff to abuse ETB effects was pretty much win-more - if I can afford to be bouncing my own stuff, I'm generally in a good way already. It was usually used on opponents' creatures, to often quite good effect.
8/1/2008: The ability is put on the stack immediately after you cast a creature spell, which means the creature that spell will become won't be a legal target.
I know it's quite greedy but I can't bounce my Venser when I'm casting it plus it costs UU. It's a worse Crystal Shard and doesn't have the benefit Erratic Portal has of being colorless.
I think I may give this card a shot. My cube is becoming more and more creature focused (I don't think that's necessarily a good or bad thing, mind you) and this is the sort of card that in conjunction with some other tools blue has access to (Tradewind Rider and Opposition come immediately to mind) this could help enable a real hard control deck in a deck that still runs a lot of creatures. Plus, it's a personal favorite. I've wrecked many an EDH games on the back of this guy (my old Momir Vig, Simic Visionary deck).
I had it in my initial build of my cube but found it too hard to work into my blue decks and I'm not sure that I would be so hesitant with devotion being a thing that my cube does.
I had it in my initial build of my cube but found it too hard to work into my blue decks and I'm not sure that I would be so hesitant with devotion being a thing that my cube does.
I played this card back in the day, and it was good but not great. With an increase to the blink/bounce deck, more quality value/ETB creautres and creature heavy U/X tempo decks seeing more play, is this card as potentially oppressive/abusable as it looks?
Thoughts?
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I personally don't like it but I could see arguments for it.
It's probably decent in blue tempo archetypes.
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Unlike crystal shard you usually cant get the effect the turn you play it because you have to drop a creature in addition to your 3 mana investment + 1 to trigger the ability. This makes it worse than capsize for stopping early bleeding without the ability to completely shut out a game later. Spending a turn's worth of mana to set up for later isn't what I generally want to be doing in a blue based tempo deck and holding Equilibrium until I have 3 mana free to drop it isn't what I want to be doing with the card, I want to get the trigger on as many of my creatures as possible.
It is also awkward for reusing citp abilities because it triggers when you cast the creature. You need another creature in your hand to return one in play and often can only get the effect you want every other turn even while spending most or all of your mana.
If creature heavy control decks were more common the card would be great but as is it probably just keeps Tradewind Rider company.
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When it fits your curve and you have more gas to follow it up its great.
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that is far from the bcs, in fact that's exactly how you shouldn't use this card. the idea is is to only rebuy things worth it in the late game, while actually make that 1 mana worth more than 1 to your opponent. contrary to popular opinion blue dudes can and should turn sideways aggressively, and an equilibrium will help make sure you connect by keeping the opponent's board clear.
i really dislike the way people's minds try to comapre anything that bounces anything to capsize. that's like the most impossibly ridiculous standard to hold a card to. you're basically saying "i don't think this card is good enough because it's not a utility spell with a built in late game win con"
anyway, yeah equilib is cool and can be good but only if your blue section is looking to get beats on.
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So you're saying a four mana capsize is bad?
Hyperbole much?
Not every bounce spell has been compared to Capsize right off the bat, and Capsize isn't even good enough for a lot of cubes anymore so saying it's the most impossibly ridiculous standard to hold a card to is "impossibly ridiculous" itself.
I don't understand how in the same breath you can say that a four mana capsize is terrible but capsize itself is the most insane standard. O.o
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FWIW, being able to cast this on my own stuff to abuse ETB effects was pretty much win-more - if I can afford to be bouncing my own stuff, I'm generally in a good way already. It was usually used on opponents' creatures, to often quite good effect.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Edit: maybe not strictly as I forgot about bouncing your opponents dudes
Not at all. Equilibrium can boomerang your opponent's creatures.
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I know it's quite greedy but I can't bounce my Venser when I'm casting it plus it costs UU. It's a worse Crystal Shard and doesn't have the benefit Erratic Portal has of being colorless.
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With Blue tempo/devotion getting better (with Master of Waves and Thassa, God of the Sea), is this card worth a second look?
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It's a strong card in tempo-based decks, and adds two devotion. I'd say it could definitely be worth another look if this is something you're pushing.
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