It's a really good card if you play mono-black/super-heavy black decks. Think about how heavy white needs to be to get the most out of Spectral Procession, and double it because Messenger can't be played at 2BB.
I can support a card like Procession because in heavy white decks if you wind up with your off-color somehow over-represented, the card isn't dead for several turns while you're waiting on a 3rd white source. You can simply cast it for 4 mana. Messenger is arguably stronger, but it has no "outs" to its cost.
As a general rule, I don't like to support triple colored cards with a CMC < 5, because even in a deck weighted towards that color, it's hard to get the triple color reliably before turn 5. I make an exception for Procession because it has an option of being an evenly color-weighted spell, and for Cryptic Command because it's so damn bonkers (and has CMC 4), but the Messenger's cost was simply too prohibitive for us. It's a great card though, and I wouldn't fault anyone for running it.
It's a really good card if you play mono-black/super-heavy black decks. Think about how heavy white needs to be to get the most out of Spectral Procession, and double it because Messenger can't be played at 2BB.
I can support a card like Procession because in heavy white decks if you wind up with your off-color somehow over-represented, the card isn't dead for several turns while you're waiting on a 3rd white source. You can simply cast it for 4 mana. Messenger is arguably stronger, but it has no "outs" to its cost.
As a general rule, I don't like to support triple colored cards with a CMC < 5, because even in a deck weighted towards that color, it's hard to get the triple color reliably before turn 5. I make an exception for Procession because it has an option of being an evenly color-weighted spell, and for Cryptic Command because it's so damn bonkers (and has CMC 4), but the Messenger's cost was simply too prohibitive for us. It's a great card though, and I wouldn't fault anyone for running it.
I agree with everything listed here. If your Cube can support monoblack why not include it and see how it goes?
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
I think that CCC cards really need to be seen as 5 mana spells, unless you're heavily trying to support mono colour. It's amazing in monocolour, but so is necropotence.
Monoblack aggro, and monoblack splashing a couple of white or green cards for utility, are common here. Like Necropotence, the Messenger also sees considerable play in decks where black >50-60% of the deck's manabase. These two cards are very powerful and pull players into that archetype. Even dropped on turn five, you have two mana up for tricks, counters or whatever. But he's at is best in a hard black build, played turn one off a Rit
Monoblack aggro, and monoblack splashing a couple of white or green cards for utility, are common here. Like Necropotence, the Messenger also sees considerable play in decks where black >50-60% of the deck's manabase. These two cards are very powerful and pull players into that archetype. Even dropped on turn five, you have two mana up for tricks, counters or whatever. But he's at is best in a hard black build, played turn one off a Rit
That doesn't even need to be heavy black. Just sayin'...
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I've had him in for a while but hasn't shown himself yet, the times in Winston he appeared he wasn't played because he was extra fodder in piles. I'm excited to see him in action though
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I am definitely thinking of adding him in. I support heavy black decks and he just feels like he represents being a zombie so well. Not some normal shambler, but like one of the huge ones
This guy is a house, and people draft him all the time. A lot of fun to play with and he screws up combat and board planning. For me, he's not coming out.
When Dark Ascension was finally released, I told my friends to put him in our cube, they said sure but my one dude was really skeptical on it because of the BBB cost. Our first cube after adding him in, he ended up taking him, and destroyed with a sweet UB control deck. He couldn't believe how incredible he was doing, and after that, he was sold. Card is good
I run him. I'm trying to make mono black viable in my cube, but it's not easy The few times I've seen this guy he's been great. Dark Ritual into him on T1 is up to part with Dark Ritual into Hypnotic Spectre in my opinion.
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Currently playing in EDH:
W Jazal Goldmane WR Daretti, Scrap Savant R B Ghoulcaller Gisa BUG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UGBG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RGUB Dragonlord Silumgar UB UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBGWUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRGBRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUBUBR Thraximundar UBR URG Yasova Dragonclaw URGWUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBGWUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
He's been in for a few weeks with us, and we've been very happy. I'm pushing stax/pox/ etc in my black section now, and I had a great deck last night that managed to use him incredibly effectively. I actually got a loop going with smokestack on the board with him and diabolic servitude (stack your triggers right and you can go infinite . .
It was pretty awesome. Undying is so powerful if you're pushing a symmetrical sacrifice archetype.
I'm very skeptical that there is any way to do this. Could you explain?
It's not an infinite win, you do have to continue paying the mana for Servitude. It's just that you don't lose either card.
Assuming the board has Smokestack on it, so every turn I'm sacrificing something.
1) Sacrifice Geralf's Messenger
2) Messenger returns to the battlefield with a 1/1 counter on it.
3) Sacrifice Geralf's Messenger
4) Messenger stays in the graveyard, because Undying doesn't trigger
5) Cast Diabolic Servitude, targeting Geralf's Messenger
6) Sacrifice Geralf's Messenger. Two triggers go on the stack, the Undying Trigger, and "exile it and return diabolic servitude to it's owner's hand".
7) Put the exile and return trigger on the stack first, then undying
8) Undying resolves, returning Geralf's Messenger to the battlefield with a 1/1 counter
9) The exile and return trigger resolves. Because Geralf's messenger is no longer in the graveyard, it doesn't get exiled. Since Diabolic Servitude does not say "if you do" on the exile part, the return to your hand still happens.
10) Go to step 3.
Sorry to necro and old thread, but how have people liked messenger and how many times does he get played? I slotted him in but the triple black is really scaring people off, he's only been main decked once by me and he only came up once so I haven't really been able to assess him. I'll have to give him some more time to see him in action but he's on the chopping block at 360.
I understand that this card is very good, but I don't like that he bottlenecks your deck design. I remember when almost every Cuber was adding him a couple years ago, so I'd also be interested in hearing if he's still around. Great card text, awful mana restriction for Cube.
He was very good, but because we don't generally draft the whole cube (and Winston), our decks tend to be 2-3 coloured and that just makes CCC and 1CCC cards impractical. Sure he's above the curve, but if your deck can't get it out on curve then it doesn't really matter. If you wanted to support a mono-black deck (I always run a splash alongside at very least) then you would want to include him and Necropotence.
I was thinking of adding him as he rewards players who stick in mono Black which I'm planning to make an archetype. I like the idea of rewarding mono colored drafters, but otherwise he's a decent sideboard option against non-Aggro decks. For more than one color he really is iffy unless you picked up a lot of fixing.
I have always liked it, but I like it even more now that I have made a push to support mono-colored archetypes through the addition of some devotion cards (recently added Nightveil Specter and Grey Merchant to help the black (and blue) devotion decks).
I also witnessed a Messenger in play, with a Sakashima's Student next to it (a Messenger), a Phantasmal Image next to that (a Messenger) and a Phyrexian Metamorph next to that (a Messenger). He won that game.
I have always liked it, but I like it even more now that I have made a push to support mono-colored archetypes through the addition of some devotion cards (recently added Nightveil Specter and Grey Merchant to help the black (and blue) devotion decks).
I did the very same thing a while ago. When I included the two strong blue devotion cards, I also put in the Specter and brought my mono-/heavy-black package back.
I have a feel that he might be like Ball Lightning - Exceptional when curving into him, but still overall powerful when you can cast him. Opinions?
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I can support a card like Procession because in heavy white decks if you wind up with your off-color somehow over-represented, the card isn't dead for several turns while you're waiting on a 3rd white source. You can simply cast it for 4 mana. Messenger is arguably stronger, but it has no "outs" to its cost.
As a general rule, I don't like to support triple colored cards with a CMC < 5, because even in a deck weighted towards that color, it's hard to get the triple color reliably before turn 5. I make an exception for Procession because it has an option of being an evenly color-weighted spell, and for Cryptic Command because it's so damn bonkers (and has CMC 4), but the Messenger's cost was simply too prohibitive for us. It's a great card though, and I wouldn't fault anyone for running it.
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I agree with everything listed here. If your Cube can support monoblack why not include it and see how it goes?
Who's eating crow?
Draft it on Cubetutor!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
That doesn't even need to be heavy black. Just sayin'...
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
...Obviously. But I wouldn't want to rely on drawing a Ritual to cast it if I wasn't in heavy black already.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
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W Jazal Goldmane W R Daretti, Scrap Savant R
B Ghoulcaller Gisa B UG Prime Speaker ZeganaUG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG BG Nath, of the Gilt-Leaf BG
RG Ruric Thar, the Unbowed RG UB Dragonlord Silumgar UB
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG BRG Prossh, Skyrider of Kher BRG
WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius WUB UBR Thraximundar UBR
URG Yasova Dragonclaw URG WUR Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR
WBG Daghatar the Adamant WBG WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
It was pretty awesome. Undying is so powerful if you're pushing a symmetrical sacrifice archetype.
My MTGSalvation Cube Page (not always up to date, but sweet pics of my alters)
I'm very skeptical that there is any way to do this. Could you explain?
It's not an infinite win, you do have to continue paying the mana for Servitude. It's just that you don't lose either card.
Assuming the board has Smokestack on it, so every turn I'm sacrificing something.
1) Sacrifice Geralf's Messenger
2) Messenger returns to the battlefield with a 1/1 counter on it.
3) Sacrifice Geralf's Messenger
4) Messenger stays in the graveyard, because Undying doesn't trigger
5) Cast Diabolic Servitude, targeting Geralf's Messenger
6) Sacrifice Geralf's Messenger. Two triggers go on the stack, the Undying Trigger, and "exile it and return diabolic servitude to it's owner's hand".
7) Put the exile and return trigger on the stack first, then undying
8) Undying resolves, returning Geralf's Messenger to the battlefield with a 1/1 counter
9) The exile and return trigger resolves. Because Geralf's messenger is no longer in the graveyard, it doesn't get exiled. Since Diabolic Servitude does not say "if you do" on the exile part, the return to your hand still happens.
10) Go to step 3.
Source
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Gotcha, not bad. Was thinking "infinite," but that seems fine by itself.
Yeah, probably not the best description on my part. Still, it was pretty awesome
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I also witnessed a Messenger in play, with a Sakashima's Student next to it (a Messenger), a Phantasmal Image next to that (a Messenger) and a Phyrexian Metamorph next to that (a Messenger). He won that game.
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Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG