I want to like this card, but it seems so mana-intensive. There are some players and playgroups that are in love with this creature. It can have a huge impact in the later stages in the game, and as long as you have 3 mana available, you can protect your most important card on the board. What are your experiences with this guy?
8.5 tails alternates between amazing and awful. In the end, we ended up cutting it from our 450 powered because it was WW, and too mana intensive. That said, I begrudge no one for running it, especially in slightly slower cubes.
8.5 tails alternates between amazing and awful. In the end, we ended up cutting it from our 450 powered because it was WW, and too mana intensive. That said, I begrudge no one for running it, especially in slightly slower cubes.
If you were to move up to 500 or 540, would you bring it back in?
If you were to move up to 500 or 540, would you bring it back in?
Probably, but it's not a slam dunk. It depends on if I felt the need to further push white aggro (in which case I'm adding the 2/1 flyers and/or the exalted knights) or wanted to add some more power to midrange (Serra Avenger and 8.5 Tails, I would think) and how concerned I was about the WW cost.
I don't know what white aggro decks are looking like for everyone else, but 90% of mine these days are equipment based, and so I would rather have evasion or even just first strike than the expensive protection/evasion. Additionally, the decks are usually based around swarming, as opposed to trying to keep a single creature alive.
8.5 tails always thrived in GW midrange though, if that still shows up in your drafts.
If I could answer for Nof (I hope she doesn't mind) I wouldn't get too caught up in the numbers there. This is the MD% of one cube and one playgroup over a fairly small sample size. This means you get wild fluctuations based on cube build, skill, and even just one players whims. In theory, the Soltari's should be played roughly similar to each other, but it doesn't always work that way in practice, especially with a bunch of wildcards and variables involved.
I ran this from the beginning on my 540, and although being in tons of decks, I can remember maybe 2 games where things actually went as planned... and that was because we both had so many creatures on the board it was a stalemate.
God, I hope it plays out the exact opposite for me. I think it looks pretty bad on paper and I was praying it would do well in practice.
Maybe I'll experience the phenomenon of expectations. With a high expectation, perhaps you felt disappointed. I have a low expectation, so I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Maybe I'll experience the phenomenon of expectations. With a high expectation, perhaps you felt disappointed. I have a low expectation, so I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
I hope so.
However, I think you have to understand why this card is good in order to want to play it. And when you understand, your expectations rise.
It's cyclical: people won't play it if they don't understand it, but if they understand and play it, then their expectations for the card rise.
I used to defend this card left and right. And in the end, it's a control card that needs a lot of extra mana to be good.
Hi, apologies for the necro. I've recently been trying this guy out and he's been stellar. Just treat him as another dumb white beater for W or W/x aggressive decks, but with a significant upside. He gives white aggro decks a mana sink if you're flooding, and is a pretty amazing topdeck. He goes into any deck that has white as a primary color, regardless of aggro, midrange, or control.
The thing about so many of my WW cards is that I don't need to sink mana into them for them to be anything but a 2/2. Even White Knight effortlessly has protection from black and first strike. Eight-and-a-half-tails is brutal when you can afford to use the mana, but when you can't it's the worst bear and probably the worst white creature in your cube.
This guy gets better the larger your cube is and the slower your cube is. I don't think I can say much more about it other than that. Great guy if your cube is slow and/or big.
I think it's important to include some two-drops that aren't aggro-only, T2-only in each of the aggro colors, because it helps with the "aggro wins on T4/T5 or loses" dynamic, which is a bit boring. 8.5 Tails is one of the better options for this job in White. It's fine (although unexciting) on T2 and becomes progressively better as you develop your mana and/or board. Compare something like Kargan Dragonlord in Red. Not for small Cubes, but at 540 and up it's a solid include.
So your Cube is all multicolor? If so, that's certainly an exception to the rule as far as guidelines for card inclusion.
-AA
Agreed. This card obviously doesn't fall into my 3+ color deck without the best fixing, but that's true for many cube cards. Unless my cube was heavy into the multicolor without much fixing--which would be bizarre in its own right, but for the sake of argument--or just completely multicolored, I don't think having multicolored cards really affects my analysis on EAAHT.
I want to like this card, but it seems so mana-intensive. There are some players and playgroups that are in love with this creature. It can have a huge impact in the later stages in the game, and as long as you have 3 mana available, you can protect your most important card on the board. What are your experiences with this guy?
Thanks!
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If you were to move up to 500 or 540, would you bring it back in?
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Probably, but it's not a slam dunk. It depends on if I felt the need to further push white aggro (in which case I'm adding the 2/1 flyers and/or the exalted knights) or wanted to add some more power to midrange (Serra Avenger and 8.5 Tails, I would think) and how concerned I was about the WW cost.
I don't know what white aggro decks are looking like for everyone else, but 90% of mine these days are equipment based, and so I would rather have evasion or even just first strike than the expensive protection/evasion. Additionally, the decks are usually based around swarming, as opposed to trying to keep a single creature alive.
8.5 tails always thrived in GW midrange though, if that still shows up in your drafts.
Thanks. I'll probably re-test it with my 500 update.
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Yet Soltari Priest is the second most played? O.o
Pretty odd, don't you think Nof?
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If I could answer for Nof (I hope she doesn't mind) I wouldn't get too caught up in the numbers there. This is the MD% of one cube and one playgroup over a fairly small sample size. This means you get wild fluctuations based on cube build, skill, and even just one players whims. In theory, the Soltari's should be played roughly similar to each other, but it doesn't always work that way in practice, especially with a bunch of wildcards and variables involved.
Fantastic in theory, mediocre in practice.
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God, I hope it plays out the exact opposite for me. I think it looks pretty bad on paper and I was praying it would do well in practice.
Maybe I'll experience the phenomenon of expectations. With a high expectation, perhaps you felt disappointed. I have a low expectation, so I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I hope so.
However, I think you have to understand why this card is good in order to want to play it. And when you understand, your expectations rise.
It's cyclical: people won't play it if they don't understand it, but if they understand and play it, then their expectations for the card rise.
I used to defend this card left and right. And in the end, it's a control card that needs a lot of extra mana to be good.
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As mentioned previously, it's a very hit or miss card. Occasionally it can take over a game but lots of times it's just terrible.
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-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
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We waited two years for that?
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
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Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
-AA
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Agreed. This card obviously doesn't fall into my 3+ color deck without the best fixing, but that's true for many cube cards. Unless my cube was heavy into the multicolor without much fixing--which would be bizarre in its own right, but for the sake of argument--or just completely multicolored, I don't think having multicolored cards really affects my analysis on EAAHT.
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