W/B Tokens: Post M13

[Wysten]

With the rotation of Honour of the Pure, Timely Renforcement and Hero of Bladehold having a fairly considerable effect on how this deck plays, I need to redesign it by either;

A) Including monsters from the upcoming set. None of the token producers are of much interest, since the 6 mana guy pushes the mana curve way too high and Timely Renforcement replacement is terrible, since we already have Midnight Haunting, Gather the Townsfolk and Lingering Souls for comparsion. Increasing Devo is slightly preferable simply due to getting real quaility for mana in the later game, and Entreat the Angels is really desirable for producing huge bodies, just expensive.

Or

B) Including blue to include favourable winds, or green to include Relentless and Govany Township though it may destablise the manabase.

As my deck currently stands:

Deck
4:Champion of the Parish 4: Doomed Traveler 1: Sliverblade Paladin 2: Hero of Bladehold 11: Creatures 4: Intangable Virture 4: Honour of the Pure 3: Oblivion Rings	11: Enchantments 4: Gather the Townsfolk 4: Lingering Souls 8 Sorc 4 Midnight Haunting 4 Instants 2 Sorin, Lord of Innstrad 15 plains 3 Swamps 4 Isolated Chapel 2 Vault of the Archangel. 24 60

Deck
4:Champion of the Parish 4: Doomed Traveler 2: Sliverblade Paladin 2: Subline Angel 12: Creatures 4: Intangable Virture 3: Oblivion Rings 7: Enchantments 4: Gather the Townsfolk 4: Lingering Souls 3: Entreat the Angels	11 Sorc 4 Midnight Haunting 4 Instants 2 Sorin, Lord of Innstrad 15 plains 3 Swamps 4 Isolated Chapel 2 Vault of the Archangel. 60

Angel of Jubliation is alright, she's a flying 3/3, but when honour of the pure goes she loses methods to boost herself Sorin aside, and makes adding blue for favourable skys, unfavourable due to her cost of 3 white. She also loses her advantage against pay spell cards, meaning she's acting as a more expensive honour of the pure a lot of the time.

Attended Knight boosts champs, produces a token and is a decent with first strike 2/2. Perhaps not as good as Sliverblade, again losing honour of the pure means that he will see limited use.

I have interest in using Subline Angel as a possible Bladehold replacement, as she allows for crazy boosting if the boosting cards are not drawn and for large spirits. Not ideal as she decreases in usefulness the more Sorin/Intangable enters play, but decent turn 4 and 5 drop as she enables tokens to start swinging for at least 3/3 or 4/4 and being flying 4/3 that is boosted by her own ability, she can become a self saficent hammer that only gets bigger with the field pressence and allows a token to become big turn 4 and is easier on the mana base. She has serious potential with Sliverblade Paladin, though not sure whether to make room for more copies of her since making a singlar creature strong clashes with the role of tokens, though it may merely transform their role.

Alternatively, Odric, Master Tactician could be ran, but the main issue is that even on a turn 4, but he's largely useless in tokens because he isn't even useful on turn 5, unless you go Champ/Traveler, Intangle/Gather, Haunting/Lingering then him. Even then, he's still practically useless since most of those creatures are flying anyways, and the entire combo can be disrupted by anything from tragic slip to doomblade on any token and Master Tactician is just a 3/4 first striker. Though being able to throw down a lot of damage and still defend with intangleable is still pretty cool.

[Rjl]

Rotation doesn't happen till return to ravnica comes out in October and then there will be a lot more cards around, for now you can keep playing honour of the pure etc.

[Fire Gamin]

You should be running Vault of the Archangel main decked. Vault has won me so many games that I've lost count.

[Wysten]

Originally Posted by Fire Gamin

You should be running Vault of the Archangel main decked. Vault has won me so many games that I've lost count.

Damn, I am maining Vault of the Archangel, I keep listing the wrong card, angel sancuary. I will edit.


As for the other comment, yeah, I know. I got a lot of time before the rotation, just planning ahead a little. Still, doesn't hurt to consider what might be big.

Pretty much the major differences are that bladehold replaces both angels, and Honour of the Pure replaces 2 entreat and a midnight haunting. Can't remember what timely renforcement is replaced by atm.

[JSE]

Rally the peasants

A little more all-in, but possibly viable.

[Rjl]

You could possibly run more copies of Sorin with his emblem in multiples being a replacement for anthems, but in general I'm not seeing this being consistent without more than 4 anthems. I think you really need to wait and see what RTR brings though tbh.

[fetyr2004]

A thought I've been pondering is Geist-Honored Monk in a token deck. I use it in my Esper Tokens and although it costs when it hits the field I usually have an army of tokens with Intangible virtue, ultimately buffing the monk to beyond ridiculous. Just a thought

[Rjl]

A couple more comments:

fetyr2004: I could be wrong but to me Geist-Honored Monk seems like a win-more card from the description you just gave, if you have an army of tokens with a virtue in play you're about to anyway unless you get swept, so the monk isn't needed, if you get swept he's going too.

On the orriginal topic, how do we know RTR won't bring 3 more anthems? Hence making current discussion on this quite irrelevant.

[Wysten]

Peasents rally Interesting card, it's something that I recommended to a friend once, but not to myself. Coming to think of it, being able to +2 all my attacks may be just the thing to push over the edge. I would have to think about introducing some mountains and/or clifftops, just to make the flashback cost make it doubly as effective. Shouldn't be too hard.

Sorin I'm still not entirely sure on. I've yet to have enough games with him to be sure whether I am sold on him or not. Guess it can't hurt to try proxies later.

And yeah, I agree, I probably have over thought the problem atm. I will probably need to edit the deck to show how it is now.

Ghiest Honoured Monk is something I might consider. Then again, she doesn't really solve any deck problems. My main problems is my loss of stat enhancers, she doesn't really fix that problem and can be dead weight. May as well use increasing devision or another, more independant creature rather then one that can be neutralised outright by a racket bomb or a low level bonfire.

[Leo947]

I run a list that currently looks a lot like this

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/mikeca...drange-tokens/

and I know its geared to take down delver, but I see some massive potential, possibly tier 2 or even 1.5 play. After about 2 weeks of playtesting, I see it has a problem with control archetypes, even wolfrun at times.

The solution I propose is to go for a more aggro approach post board.

I bring in 2 Loyal Cathar , 4 Doomed Traveller and 2 Hero of Bladehold

Is this suite enough to ramp up the aggro factor enough?

[marumari]

After rotation, there's always the possibility of Esper tokens. Move your second anthem from Honor of the Pure to Favorable Winds, and then add in some Talrand's Invocation or Entreat the Angels. Seems reasonable, if not T1.

[Wysten]

Originally Posted by Leo947

I run a list that currently looks a lot like this

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/mikeca...drange-tokens/

and I know its geared to take down delver, but I see some massive potential, possibly tier 2 or even 1.5 play. After about 2 weeks of playtesting, I see it has a problem with control archetypes, even wolfrun at times.

The solution I propose is to go for a more aggro approach post board.

I bring in 2 Loyal Cathar , 4 Doomed Traveller and 2 Hero of Bladehold

Is this suite enough to ramp up the aggro factor enough?

Aye, I had a good look at your varient. Very well thought of and fantastically solid, though I have yet to run increasing devision myself in a long term plan. I might give it some thought, since the champs and Gathering are probably a bit too gimmiky.

[Dakhwon]

If you go Esper, you could go Talrand, Sky Summoner... I've been looking at Odric, Master Tactician as well. I've been looking at splashing a little more black and going with ways to abuse Blood Artist and Killing Wave.

[jackad7]

If this is before the update, and it is mainly tokens, I would recommend 2-3 elspeth tirels in there, also you are planning on working on it after it goes out, Rhys the redeemed, my favorite card, flat out wrecks in a token deck, I have had hundreds of tokens at a time