Does this not make it anymore because of it being 4 cmc? I got to play this in the Wizards cube and along with some other mana denial cards and it was awesome. Even when I didnt have the other mana denial I really liked what Hokori was doing. It seems good against all sorts of decks while also being good in a variety of decks. So is this still good enough to go in?
Hokori has a powerful effect, for sure, but it's got a lot of competition at its converted mana cost in white. A lot of that competition can win the game on its own (Hero of Bladehold), whereas Hokori pretty much requires a more impressive set of support dudes.
It's a good way to push a deck over the top, but it doesn't quite seal the game the way Armageddon can.
I'd definitely run it in a big cube though, where you want more of the effect and you have more slots to devote to white midrange creatures.
He may not make it into smaller cubes, but midsize cubes have (A) some more room and (B) the need for more aggro support effects. I guess he would see more play if he was a little bit better, but Wizards was really careful with the Winter Orb effect, considering how mean the original is. Thoughness 2 makes Hokori really easy to kill.
Just echoing what others have said: the four-slot is too jammed and a 2/2 is too fragile to ensure the effect will last. It's a good card but just not good enough for most cubes.
i always had a soft spot for this card. As Wizards continues to print better 4 drops, it just gets outclass very easily.
I would play at 720-900 only. There are just a lot of good white four drops that i currently dont even run that you would also have to consider before using hokori
Just a few good ones
(Calciderm, Angel of Jubilation, Ranger of Eos, Emeria Angel, Linvala)
This card is better than a lot of the 4-drops people are currently playing, including Calciderm, Ranger, Emeria, Linvala, and Angel of Jub...and it's not close how much better it is that most of those. Winter Orb is VERY powerful, and one that increases the clock even moreso. Don't let the 2 thoughness fool you; Hokori is very powerful. He keeps you ahead for a few turns when you are ahead, and he can slow your opponent down if you need time to catch up on a somewhat even board.
If he is unable to attack favorably, don't attack with him!
If you need your lands to cast spells to win, don't cast him!
No one forces you to play bad Magic, remember.
For reference, I am cutting Calciderm before I am cutting Hokori.
This card was a complete failure for us. It finally made me realize the large power difference between bears that need to stick around for their effect to have value and come into play bears. I would still play it in a dragon cube, but that's about it.
This card is better than a lot of the 4-drops people are currently playing, including Calciderm, Ranger, Emeria, Linvala, and Angel of Jub...and it's not close how much better it is that most of those. Winter Orb is VERY powerful, and one that increases the clock even moreso. Don't let the 2 thoughness fool you; Hokori is very powerful. He keeps you ahead for a few turns when you are ahead, and he can slow your opponent down if you need time to catch up on a somewhat even board.
I kind of think the same about it as well. The Winter Orb effect attach to it could be damn powerful some time when it's played on time. My playgroup and I love it as a board locker for W/x aggro decks! Not that versatile, but so effective!
What does people think about it in 2015, now that the competition is even harder a 4cc?
Still run it, still like it, still recommend it. White's primary form of disruption is mana denial (Thalia, Armageddon, et al) and this is another cog in that machine. I would still rather have this card over some of the larger options, like Jazal and now the Exemplars (although Exemplars seems very good).
Still run it, still like it, still recommend it. White's primary form of disruption is mana denial (Thalia, Armageddon, et al) and this is another cog in that machine. I would still rather have this card over some of the larger options, like Jazal and now the Exemplars (although Exemplars seems very good).
-AA
How big of a liability is the P/T when playing him?
The P/T was a bummer, but the bigger problem was the casting cost. Winter Orb is awesome because it's cheap and doesn't die to creature removal. You can answer a threat your opponent sunk all their resources into and still have mana left to Orb them out of the game. No such luck with a 4cc card. And additionally, just getting Lightning Bolted provides a ton of cheap outs to the effect for your opponent. When what I want is the effect, having it strapped to an overcosted body is a problem. It was an easy pass YEARS ago, and it's no better now. Worse, if anything, because you can do more with less, and there are better (and more) nonland mana producers than before.
Disagree, but YMMV of course. You've had a different experience than I have, clearly.
2/2 isn't a huge body, but the card is literally an undercosted artifact (winter orb would cost way more than 2 now) strapped to an overcosted body (WW for a 2/2 is not printed now, they always have an extra ability), so it works out just fine. If it isn't big enough, I don't attack with it. Even if it dies quickly to a cheap removal spell on their turn, you've time walked your opponent and get to untap yourself. Only way it feels bad is if they kill it immediately, but really mainly red spells have a removal effect for which P/T would matter (sometimes they just doom blade it and any of your 4 drops would die). And luckily, in white you often have anthems/pants that allow you to attack with it.
It's not the greatest card, but I haven't found a suitable replacement for it yet with which I'm happy. There are plenty of attacking 4 drops, but this one attacks mana. That's why I run it and like it.
Opponent still need to wait 2 turn to deal with if you suceed to cast it when he's tap all and not having a 1cc burn in hand or on top deck. If he drop a land and blast it with let's say a GftT or a Doom Blade for example, he still has lost a turn dealing with it and in that way you're never opening yourself to a straight 1 for 1.
He's also pretty nice to play if you have a mox on the board, allowing you to cast at least a 2 drop every turn after he comes in while you're opponent's still stuck. Of course he can also have a rock or mox on his own but you will still be slowing him down significally until he answer it.
This is one card that has never, ever worked for me. Even when I cast him against control off of a mana dork while they're tapped out and think "Cool, I won!", they still somehow manage to claw their way back into the game while Hokori becomes a liability. Too many alternate sources of mana, too slow of a clock, too fragile, sets you too far behind on mana. Never again.
I ended up replacing Hokori with Static Orb. I felt like it would be better remove Hokori and put another white card in it's place. I already have at least four 4 drops in white not including my planeswalkers so I felt that having Static Orb would be better. It's cool when you could get Sword of Feast and Famine and Hokori in the same deck but that wouldn't happen that often. I wouldn't say Hokori is a bad card but it's not something that you would see in a smaller cube. With a 360 or 450 cube you are going to find much better cards to cube with unless you are on a real tight budget.
Static Orb is much harder to use in the cube than Winter Orb is. Winter Orb has applications all over the place, including aggro. Static Orb is a bad aggro card instead of a good one.
Does this not make it anymore because of it being 4 cmc? I got to play this in the Wizards cube and along with some other mana denial cards and it was awesome. Even when I didnt have the other mana denial I really liked what Hokori was doing. It seems good against all sorts of decks while also being good in a variety of decks. So is this still good enough to go in?
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It's a good way to push a deck over the top, but it doesn't quite seal the game the way Armageddon can.
I'd definitely run it in a big cube though, where you want more of the effect and you have more slots to devote to white midrange creatures.
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I would play at 720-900 only. There are just a lot of good white four drops that i currently dont even run that you would also have to consider before using hokori
Just a few good ones
(Calciderm, Angel of Jubilation, Ranger of Eos, Emeria Angel, Linvala)
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If he is unable to attack favorably, don't attack with him!
If you need your lands to cast spells to win, don't cast him!
No one forces you to play bad Magic, remember.
For reference, I am cutting Calciderm before I am cutting Hokori.
-AA
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I kind of think the same about it as well. The Winter Orb effect attach to it could be damn powerful some time when it's played on time. My playgroup and I love it as a board locker for W/x aggro decks! Not that versatile, but so effective!
What does people think about it in 2015, now that the competition is even harder a 4cc?
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-AA
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How big of a liability is the P/T when playing him?
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2/2 isn't a huge body, but the card is literally an undercosted artifact (winter orb would cost way more than 2 now) strapped to an overcosted body (WW for a 2/2 is not printed now, they always have an extra ability), so it works out just fine. If it isn't big enough, I don't attack with it. Even if it dies quickly to a cheap removal spell on their turn, you've time walked your opponent and get to untap yourself. Only way it feels bad is if they kill it immediately, but really mainly red spells have a removal effect for which P/T would matter (sometimes they just doom blade it and any of your 4 drops would die). And luckily, in white you often have anthems/pants that allow you to attack with it.
It's not the greatest card, but I haven't found a suitable replacement for it yet with which I'm happy. There are plenty of attacking 4 drops, but this one attacks mana. That's why I run it and like it.
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-AA
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Opponent still need to wait 2 turn to deal with if you suceed to cast it when he's tap all and not having a 1cc burn in hand or on top deck. If he drop a land and blast it with let's say a GftT or a Doom Blade for example, he still has lost a turn dealing with it and in that way you're never opening yourself to a straight 1 for 1.
He's also pretty nice to play if you have a mox on the board, allowing you to cast at least a 2 drop every turn after he comes in while you're opponent's still stuck. Of course he can also have a rock or mox on his own but you will still be slowing him down significally until he answer it.
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