I will say it right now: Sublime isn't worth $20, its borderline playable at best.
She hurts, but when was the last time a 4-drop was playable simply for the sake that it is a good beater? If it doesn't make CA I don't see the point in playing it.
I thought the same thing and sold the one I got at the PR for $12. I thought of her as a $7-8 Mythic and thought it would fall soon. Needless to say, I'm kinda upset that I didn't charge more.
Thragtusk hasn't seen play yet, as the set just came out recently. But there is a lot of speculation about how good this card is, especially against Vapor Snag.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I like Thragtusk a lot, but any price over $10 is unsustainable. Talrand will drop on rotation at the latest. Sublime Angel I'm on the fence on; swinging with one guy is usually not what I want to be doing in aggressive decks (though Rancor helps; the way I can see making this deck is G/W sublime/gavony with rancor). I think Liliana will end up around 10, and Ajani around 15.
This set has absurdly bad value.. I usually base my prices on ebay buy it nows with included shipping and would go with: Ajani: 24$
Thundermaw Hellkite: 22$
Sublime Archangel: 18$
Liliana: 15$
Thragtusk: 12$
Jace: 8$
Talrand: 5$
This is for a single card. Sometimes a playset gets you a discount but in some of these cases it actually doesn't. I think supply is actually sort of short right now because people aren't opening as much product as they usually would. I've seen auctions of these sit around for a few days without moving which is quite unusual.
By value there are only 17 cards worth opening in the set but some of those could fall off very quickly while others could move up and replace (I could see mutilate moving to 4$ if MBC has good showings). The lands could potentially recover over time but are currently at 2.5$ each..
Ok why is thragtusk so damn high? Has he done well in some SCG event or some standard event? Because i dont see him as that great unless you can ramp into him. I still say that the archangel will be a beater for the time she is in standard. Not like baneslayer but she will be up there.
In the last Star City Games Open (St. Louis), Thragtusk was in 5 of the top 8 decks, including the 1st place deck. Talrand was in the 4th place deck. Here's how many they ran:
1st: 1 Thragtusk
2nd: 3 Thrags
3rd: 2 Thrags (1 main, 1 side)
4th: 3 Talrand, Sky Summoner
5th: 2 Thrags
6th: 2 Thrags
7th & 8th: none
That's all, although I might have missed one or more. Obviously, the first tournament with M13 legal is not the end-all, be-all of the Standard meta-game. Personally, I do feel that Thragtusk seems to be the real deal already, and that Talrand obviously has strong potential. I don't think either of these are one-trick ponies, and I am not surprised they are still rising.
I will say it right now: Sublime isn't worth $20, its borderline playable at best.
She hurts, but when was the last time a 4-drop was playable simply for the sake that it is a good beater? If it doesn't make CA I don't see the point in playing it.
I would argue it would see play in delver and it might still post rotation but right now she is competing with restoration angel which although doesn't beat as hard is far more open to abuse.
As for hellkite, I love dragons so I'm a bit biased but it strikes me as fulfilling a very similar role demigod did a few years back. Flying chump blockers are a popular control stall tactic these days and this guy gets your whole team past them. I would be very surprised if he isn't an all star in the next format and doesn't see at least some play until then.
hellkite is a 5 mana beater while the angel is a 4 mana beater...that one turn makes a hell of a difference (the angel has pseudo haste since it impacts the board immediately).
hellkite is a 5 mana beater while the angel is a 4 mana beater...that one turn makes a hell of a difference (the angel has pseudo haste since it impacts the board immediately).
Hellkite kills lingering souls tokens, hellkite has actual haste which is more beneficial if on an empty board position.
Angel is better if you have alot of dudes in play, angel is competing with restoration angel for its slot, the best use of the angel is to overcommit on board position then swing with one dude at a time.
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
Angel is better if you have alot of dudes in play, angel is competing with restoration angel for its slot, the best use of the angel is to overcommit on board position then swing with one dude at a time.
I'm just not seeing why people like her.
Maybe they're looking beyond the exalted keyword. Indomitable Archangel is the only creature in print that can match Sublime's basic stats. Is "exalted" and "all your other creatures have exalted" worth +0/+1 and "sometimes your artifacts have shroud"?
I'm not saying a vanilla 4/3 flying for 4 would be very powerful, but it's notably efficient. Exalted is a huge bonus on top. She's fragile by herself, I think she's worth protecting.
Talrand looks strong at 6 but I think it needs more tournament results before it can move much higher. I'm pleased with my earlier predictions on this guy when he was half current price. I predicted one of the only two rares to go up since release. The other is Thragtusk, but I can't claim I called that one well - I thought it wouldn't go over $10. I have to think it'll come back down at some point. The only thing it has on the $2 mythic Vorapede (ie: it would be a $1 rare) is that it's more splashable and better against Cloudshift and Vapor Snag.
Eesh, now I know I made the right call about that sketchy order.
Maybe they're looking beyond the exalted keyword. Indomitable Archangel is the only creature in print that can match Sublime's basic stats. Is "exalted" and "all your other creatures have exalted" worth +0/+1 and "sometimes your artifacts have shroud"?
I'm not saying a vanilla 4/3 flying for 4 would be very powerful, but it's notably efficient. Exalted is a huge bonus on top. She's fragile by herself, I think she's worth protecting.
Vanilla 4/3 flier is trash in the current meta. She doesn't defend well, and she produces 0 ca.
sure she's a beating, but only if you have a large board. I dislike cards that ultimately encourage you to play into wrath effects.
Well, you asked why people like her, so I told you. I already know that YOU don't like her, but you seemed to want an answer to your question. She's a bit like Leatherback Baloth - impressive stats we've never seen before, but fragile.
Notice that wrath effects have been toned down in the current standard.
What does "If shocks are back though no one is going to have to play mono black for wraths" mean?
He's referring to being able to play Mutilate in a multicolored deck while still running all Swamps. Of course, no one knows what is going to be in [RTR], so this is all pointless.
I guess he means people will be able to splash Black to have mass removal. This is a bad idea since Mutilate is the only Standard legal sweeper in Black post Rotation right now. Killing Wave is not a sweeper, and I seriously doubt Zombie Apocalypse counts as well.
Sublime Archangel is a very powerful card, but it is fragile like any creature with Hexproof/shroud/Indestructibility/Regen. If it sticks around, it will win games. I am currently piloting a Sublime Deck and I have killed people quite quickly with a resolved Archangel. Sublime is not a Titan or Thrun. But it is a powerful card if not answered. Personally, I do think Thundermaw Hellkite is more powerful, but Thundermaw does not have a deck yet.
Card eval skills here seem poor. Thundermaw certainly has decks it fits in - naya pod main and board, naya aggro same, red green agro same, and were I to play ramp I would probably put it in there too. On the other hand you have green white agro decks being listed without rancor.. and with zero removal. You will die to turn three infect so fast..
Card eval skills here seem poor. Thundermaw certainly has decks it fits in - naya pod main and board, naya aggro same, red green agro same, and were I to play ramp I would probably put it in there too. On the other hand you have green white agro decks being listed without rancor.. and with zero removal. You will die to turn three infect so fast..
My G/W Aggro has Rancor. I also do not run it in tournaments because of the lack of good removal and it can do poorly if I do not have a good hand. I have it as a casual deck.
I just went and checked, and it appears that Thundermaw is in decks, which is good because it is an amazing card. It had been awhile since I looked at Naya or G/R decks, so I should have done my research before I opened my mouth.
Vanilla 4/3 flier is trash in the current meta. She doesn't defend well, and she produces 0 ca.
sure she's a beating, but only if you have a large board. I dislike cards that ultimately encourage you to play into wrath effects.
she's a 5/4 at worst when attacking (let's face it, yeah it sucks trading it with a delver on defence, but u are already losing if u are forced to do that). If you got other critters that are 1/1s, then great, u got defenders.
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
A new addition to the tally, Cathedral of War, leaps into 14th spot and increases the number of cards worth opening in a booster pack to 16!
Ajani has been steadily decreasing since the release and is down another buck this update. Sublime and Thundermaw, locked together in price until one proves itself over the other in tournament results, cooled to $19 but remained in 2nd and 3rd place. Liliana drifted lower while Thragtusk, up $1 since the last update, has actually cooled over the past few days and was $15 at the start of the week. Vampire Nocturnus jumped 50% in price in the past week, now a solid $8 and 6th best card in the set! Amazing for a reprint, and for a card almost nobody is talking about. Talrand may have topped here for now but could continue his climb if he does well in tournaments over the weekend. Reprints Garruk, Nicol Bolas, and Memorial languish around the $5 area with Master of the Pearl Trident just beneath. As mentioned above, Cathedral of War has surprised me by creeping up onto the tally, even though I haven't sold a single copy at $2.50 up until this point. Omniscience has now fallen from $9 to $3 and is likely to end up at $1. Chandra is dangling at the bottom of the tally and probably won't be there next time I update.
Just South of the list are Drowned Catacomb, Gilded Lotus, and Mutilate.
Rancor at 1.5 is the highest uncommon with Augur of Bolas and Jace's Phantasm at 1, Tormod's Crypt and Vampire Nighthawk at .75. Reliquary Tower was a $5 card until it was reprinted in M13, and I've been unable to sell a single copy at 60c shipped, so I'll probably drop it to 50c or less and see if that helps.
I think the good news, if you can call it that, is the set doesn't appear to have fallen any further in terms of box value. It's still not really financially worth opening packs, but at least it hasn't gotten any worse thanks to small gains by cards like Talrand Summoner and Cathedral of War. We'll know more when Jeff has time to run his box value calculation (thank you Jeff).
If anybody knows what's going on with Vampire Nocturnus and Cathedral of War, please let us know!
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I thought the same thing and sold the one I got at the PR for $12. I thought of her as a $7-8 Mythic and thought it would fall soon. Needless to say, I'm kinda upset that I didn't charge more.
Thragtusk hasn't seen play yet, as the set just came out recently. But there is a lot of speculation about how good this card is, especially against Vapor Snag.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Cheers
Ajani: 24$
Thundermaw Hellkite: 22$
Sublime Archangel: 18$
Liliana: 15$
Thragtusk: 12$
Jace: 8$
Talrand: 5$
This is for a single card. Sometimes a playset gets you a discount but in some of these cases it actually doesn't. I think supply is actually sort of short right now because people aren't opening as much product as they usually would. I've seen auctions of these sit around for a few days without moving which is quite unusual.
By value there are only 17 cards worth opening in the set but some of those could fall off very quickly while others could move up and replace (I could see mutilate moving to 4$ if MBC has good showings). The lands could potentially recover over time but are currently at 2.5$ each..
In the last Star City Games Open (St. Louis), Thragtusk was in 5 of the top 8 decks, including the 1st place deck. Talrand was in the 4th place deck. Here's how many they ran:
1st: 1 Thragtusk
2nd: 3 Thrags
3rd: 2 Thrags (1 main, 1 side)
4th: 3 Talrand, Sky Summoner
5th: 2 Thrags
6th: 2 Thrags
7th & 8th: none
For what it is worth, the other M13 cards I saw in the top 8 were:
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride; 5 Elvish Visionary; 6 Rancor; and 3 Augur of Bolas
That's all, although I might have missed one or more. Obviously, the first tournament with M13 legal is not the end-all, be-all of the Standard meta-game. Personally, I do feel that Thragtusk seems to be the real deal already, and that Talrand obviously has strong potential. I don't think either of these are one-trick ponies, and I am not surprised they are still rising.
hellkite is a 5 mana beater while the angel is a 4 mana beater...that one turn makes a hell of a difference (the angel has pseudo haste since it impacts the board immediately).
I have Thragtusk at $14 and have not sold any copies so far (even when it was $8).
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Hellkite kills lingering souls tokens, hellkite has actual haste which is more beneficial if on an empty board position.
Angel is better if you have alot of dudes in play, angel is competing with restoration angel for its slot, the best use of the angel is to overcommit on board position then swing with one dude at a time.
I'm just not seeing why people like her.
Ajani is now down to $25 on your website. Sure glad you cancelled my order for the 3 of them @ $27, I hate overpaying for cards.
Infraction issued for Flaming/Trolling
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
Maybe they're looking beyond the exalted keyword. Indomitable Archangel is the only creature in print that can match Sublime's basic stats. Is "exalted" and "all your other creatures have exalted" worth +0/+1 and "sometimes your artifacts have shroud"?
I'm not saying a vanilla 4/3 flying for 4 would be very powerful, but it's notably efficient. Exalted is a huge bonus on top. She's fragile by herself, I think she's worth protecting.
Today's top 7:
Ajani 26
Sublime 21
Thundermaw 21
Liliana 18
Thragtusk 14
Jace 7
Talrand 6
Talrand looks strong at 6 but I think it needs more tournament results before it can move much higher. I'm pleased with my earlier predictions on this guy when he was half current price. I predicted one of the only two rares to go up since release. The other is Thragtusk, but I can't claim I called that one well - I thought it wouldn't go over $10. I have to think it'll come back down at some point. The only thing it has on the $2 mythic Vorapede (ie: it would be a $1 rare) is that it's more splashable and better against Cloudshift and Vapor Snag.
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Vanilla 4/3 flier is trash in the current meta. She doesn't defend well, and she produces 0 ca.
sure she's a beating, but only if you have a large board. I dislike cards that ultimately encourage you to play into wrath effects.
Notice that wrath effects have been toned down in the current standard.
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besides miracling a terminus and being forced to play mono black what other wrath effect would you be referring to 3 month from now?
dunno, well find out in rtr what other wraths we got.
If shocks are back though no one is going to have to play mono black for wraths.
Actually even with shocks it's hard to splash a color in mono black because it is hard to splash with just 4 "dual" lands.
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He's referring to being able to play Mutilate in a multicolored deck while still running all Swamps. Of course, no one knows what is going to be in [RTR], so this is all pointless.
Sublime Archangel is a very powerful card, but it is fragile like any creature with Hexproof/shroud/Indestructibility/Regen. If it sticks around, it will win games. I am currently piloting a Sublime Deck and I have killed people quite quickly with a resolved Archangel. Sublime is not a Titan or Thrun. But it is a powerful card if not answered. Personally, I do think Thundermaw Hellkite is more powerful, but Thundermaw does not have a deck yet.
My G/W Aggro has Rancor. I also do not run it in tournaments because of the lack of good removal and it can do poorly if I do not have a good hand. I have it as a casual deck.
I just went and checked, and it appears that Thundermaw is in decks, which is good because it is an amazing card. It had been awhile since I looked at Naya or G/R decks, so I should have done my research before I opened my mouth.
she's a 5/4 at worst when attacking (let's face it, yeah it sucks trading it with a delver on defence, but u are already losing if u are forced to do that). If you got other critters that are 1/1s, then great, u got defenders.
Nocturnus suddenly jumps 50% out of the blue:
1) Ajani, Caller of the Pride (25) / / / /
2) Sublime Archangel (19) / / / /
3) Thundermaw Hellkite (19) / / / /
4) Liliana of the Dark Realms (17) / / / /
5) Thragtusk (12) / / / /
6) Vampire Nocturnus (8) / / / /
7) Jace, Memory Adept (7) / / / /
8) Talrand, Sky Summoner (5.5) / / / /
9) Garruk, Primal Hunter (5) / / / /
10) Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (5) / / / /
11) Akroma's Memorial (4.5) / / / /
12) Master of the Pearl Trident (4) / / / /
13) Yeva, Nature's Herald (4) / / / /
14) Cathedral of War (3.5)
15) Omniscience (3.25) / / / /
16) Chandra, the Firebrand (3) / / / /
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
A new addition to the tally, Cathedral of War, leaps into 14th spot and increases the number of cards worth opening in a booster pack to 16!
Ajani has been steadily decreasing since the release and is down another buck this update. Sublime and Thundermaw, locked together in price until one proves itself over the other in tournament results, cooled to $19 but remained in 2nd and 3rd place. Liliana drifted lower while Thragtusk, up $1 since the last update, has actually cooled over the past few days and was $15 at the start of the week. Vampire Nocturnus jumped 50% in price in the past week, now a solid $8 and 6th best card in the set! Amazing for a reprint, and for a card almost nobody is talking about. Talrand may have topped here for now but could continue his climb if he does well in tournaments over the weekend. Reprints Garruk, Nicol Bolas, and Memorial languish around the $5 area with Master of the Pearl Trident just beneath. As mentioned above, Cathedral of War has surprised me by creeping up onto the tally, even though I haven't sold a single copy at $2.50 up until this point. Omniscience has now fallen from $9 to $3 and is likely to end up at $1. Chandra is dangling at the bottom of the tally and probably won't be there next time I update.
Just South of the list are Drowned Catacomb, Gilded Lotus, and Mutilate.
Rancor at 1.5 is the highest uncommon with Augur of Bolas and Jace's Phantasm at 1, Tormod's Crypt and Vampire Nighthawk at .75. Reliquary Tower was a $5 card until it was reprinted in M13, and I've been unable to sell a single copy at 60c shipped, so I'll probably drop it to 50c or less and see if that helps.
I think the good news, if you can call it that, is the set doesn't appear to have fallen any further in terms of box value. It's still not really financially worth opening packs, but at least it hasn't gotten any worse thanks to small gains by cards like Talrand Summoner and Cathedral of War. We'll know more when Jeff has time to run his box value calculation (thank you Jeff).
If anybody knows what's going on with Vampire Nocturnus and Cathedral of War, please let us know!
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Oh.
Now, to really show that I don't play Magic much lately at all, can anyone explain to me how infect and exalted work together? Thanks!
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