When the first block of ravnica was released, i fell in love with the graft mechanic. Over the time, i've made changes to my simic deck. When mirrorweave was printed, it gave the deck a sweepeer. I've been happy to add more cards when the proliferate mechanic was created.
Gatecrash update: new guildmage beats old, and master biomancer takes corpsejack menace's spot, no need for black anymore! I'm not sure yet if any evolve creature is worth adding, i might update my list in the future.
This deck has a lot of useful synergies. Mirrorweave on a 0/0 becomes a one sided ***. Spike feeder is my out against aggro. Thrummingbird is in my opinion the only proliferate card worthy of playing.
Liking the jack feeder combo. Looks like pay 2 gain 2 life. That can break open some matches. Even better when you get 2 corpsejacks out. Double then double again. 1 makes 4 suddenly.
The deck looks like its missing a few cards though. No goyf is the first glaring hole. Next is you are in black but not playing the cards that black likes best. Iok and thoughtseize are good adds. Try adding 4 goyf and 6 of the discards to make the deck stronger.
Fester, aquastrand, hydra, and thumming bird look like the weaest parts of the deck currently. Maybe drop the proliferate all together to make a better deck?
Liking the jack feeder combo. Looks like pay 2 gain 2 life. That can break open some matches. Even better when you get 2 corpsejacks out. Double then double again. 1 makes 4 suddenly.
The deck looks like its missing a few cards though. No goyf is the first glaring hole. Next is you are in black but not playing the cards that black likes best. Iok and thoughtseize are good adds. Try adding 4 goyf and 6 of the discards to make the deck stronger.
Fester, aquastrand, hydra, and thumming bird look like the weaest parts of the deck currently. Maybe drop the proliferate all together to make a better deck?
So you're basically saying to me "play another deck". Thanks
Goyf is boring and has no synergy with the deck (and he's expensive as hell). I don't like using a bunch of staples and calling it a deck of my own. I'm trying to find different synergies rather than making the same decks we see over and over. That way i get to have more fun building/playing my decks and people are unprepared for my strategies.
Festercreep is the weakest link but it has been useful. It can clear the board of tokens or x/1s. It's kinda good vs affinity. If they print a better 0/0 two drop he'll be the first to go.
Aquastrand is pretty solid, a 2/2 for 2 with 2 relevant abilities. The reach ability saved me quite a few times and graft is golden in this deck.
Thrummingbird is awesome. It pumps my army and itself if it has a counter on it from graft or spike feeder. It's the deck's best two drop for sure.
Hydra a weak link? Are you kidding me? She's a beast! Even if i cast it for x=1 i can often graft it and proliferate it into a trampling monster. With frogling i can protect her and with corpsejack she triples every turn, she's nuts in this deck and won me countless games.
Also, maybe you missed the mirrorweave interaction. I need this deck to contain 0/0s so i can turn all creatures into a 0/0 with it, making a one sided instant speed sweeper, save for creatures with +1/+1 counters. Dropping zero/zeros means i drop this deck altogether, and i'm not willing to do that.
Forgotten Ancient is a bit slow but could be crazy with Corpsejack Menace, especially in multiplayer games. I really like the deck by the way. I'm hoping you'll update it once Simic 2.0 is released in February.
EDIT: Sorry, I hadn't noticed that the deck is for Modern.
Forgotten Ancient is a bit slow but could be crazy with Corpsejack Menace, especially in multiplayer games. I really like the deck by the way. I'm hoping you'll update it once Simic 2.0 is released in February.
EDIT: Sorry, I hadn't noticed that the deck is for Modern.
Thank you, i'm glad you like my list!
Yes, i'm really hoping for some evolve goodies from gatecrash! Maybe an evolve mana dork? That would be awesome!
Also, i've made a few changes, deck edited, now black is solely for corpsejack menace.
There are lots of others, too, but you can make some mean counter decks even in mono green. I would say that thrummingbird is maybe the only proliferate guy I'd play in here, though. He's pretty rough!
Yes, i'm really hoping for some evolve goodies from gatecrash! Maybe an evolve mana dork? That would be awesome!
Also, i've made a few changes, deck edited, now black is solely for corpsejack menace.
A couple of evolvers were spoiled today. They're looking pretty good. There is a common and an uncommon for fast aggro and a rare one for insane CA in a deck like this. No mana dorks yet though.:)
I've been looking for a good graft build so I'll probably build something resembling your deck once Gatecrash is released.
There are lots of others, too, but you can make some mean counter decks even in mono green. I would say that thrummingbird is maybe the only proliferate guy I'd play in here, though. He's pretty rough!
Firstborn looks good but the triple green in the casting cost is turning me off. I've tried fungal behemoth but i found out he's pretty bad. It really sucks to top deck him on an empty board. Paragon looks ok but i don't think he's needed, i like my other 2 drops better. My biggest beater, the hydra, already has trample. Root-kin used to be in the deck and i really like him, but the reason he didn't make it in my final version is that the 4 cc slots are already full. I think both my 4 mana spells are better than him. He's totally legit though so me not playing him might be a mistake.
A couple of evolvers were spoiled today. They're looking pretty good. There is a common and an uncommon for fast aggro and a rare one for insane CA in a deck like this. No mana dorks yet though.:)
I've been looking for a good graft build so I'll probably build something resembling your deck once Gatecrash is released.
The draw lady looks sexy but like i said i don't want to clog my 4cc and have more bad starting hands. I might try her as a one of, because she seems crazy good with corpsejack menace, graft and simic guildmage.
I really like the one mana evolve flyer. If i'm cutting something for some evolve goodies i'm cutting blessings because they are very random. Still, i'll wait until the full spoiler before modifying my list again.
I've been following this thread for a while and I really like your deck. I've been wanting to build a U/G deck for casual multiplayer and this looks almost perfect. There are two things I definitely want to add, Forgotten Ancient and Rhystic Study. In a five or six player game they're just too good. Not quite sure what to drop, probably Blessings of Nature and something else. Blessings seems like the weak link right now, especially if you have a source of draw.
The other cards I looked at are Simic Manipulator and Cytoplast Manipulator. What are your thoughts on them? In some ways they're really appealing but they may just eat removal. Do you think they're viable in casual multiplayer? Are they worth cutting something out for?
Lorescale Coatl + Zameck Guildmage is a (mana-intensive) draw engine as soon as Lorescale Coatl gets a +1/+1 counter somehow (draw phase, etc.).
Lorescale Coatl really deserves its own deck. It belongs in an aggro deck that sort of works out similarly to Soul Sisters. (Most of the deck is focused on doing something, ie gaining life or drawing cards, to pump up something like Lorescale Coatl or Ajani's Pridemate)
Yes blessings is really the weak link right now, it's either incredible or dead. I'm thinking of replacing them for gyre sages. They are imo the best evolvers for this deck, more mana is good and most of my drop evolve them, and their 2cc cost fits the curve well. I'm also thinking of adding a single zegana, prime speaker.
My thoughts on manipulators is their recquire too much works for them to be good. I could be wrong though.
I've considered the guildmage snake combo but i'm not sure they are worth adding, because snakes aren't good enough without the guildmages, and i only play 2 copies.
I suggest adding some persist cards. Graft and Master Biomancer can get rid of the -1/-1 counter they get when they come back.
Not a bad idea. My favorite persist creature for this deck would be glen elendra archmage. Lock down the opponent's non creatures when you have the mana! I'll add 1 or 2 copies if i can trade for them.
Aerie ouphes might work too, kills every flyers. Probably too situational though.
I've made some changes to the deck after some testing.
Simic manipulator turned out better than expected. He's really good at stealing small creatures. Don't expect to steal anything bigger than 2 power with him. You can also mirrorweave him to steal your opponent's board!
Gyre sage were disappointing. I let myself convinced that they were strong but they aren't (for this deck). They just take too much time to accelerate, slowing down the deck.
Also, since the deck is somewhat slow without mana acceleration, i've added 3 noble hierarch. They are also very good because of the high number of 3 drops in the deck.
Biomancer really is the mvp of the deck. It is quite easy to get his power up to 3-4, and he turns bad topdecks into threats.
I had the same experiences with Gyre Sage. It ended up being harder than I anticipated even getting one Evolve so I could start proliferating. I felt like I held it back in my hand, waiting to get a Graft dude out first, just to get the ball rolling. I think any time I feel like I should hold back casting a nominally ramp card, the card probably isn't really worth playing. Gyre Sage ended up coming out.
I ended up replacing the Gyre Sages with Fathom Mages. I've found that the 1/1 means I have an easier time getting an Evolve out of it to get the Proliferate engine operational, and if it hits the board after one or even two Master Biomancers are already in play (which, granted, can be pretty late into the game), then I fill my hand up with enough cards to guarantee me the win.
I have completely fallen in love with your Mirrorweave/Simic Manipulator concept, and I am totally stealing the idea for my deck.
I am interested in your thoughts on Prime Speaker Zegana. I have tried and tried, but I have not been able to find a home for her in my deck. I feel like she arrives too late to have the impact that she really ought to have. The only times she's ever entered the game with a significant amount of counters on her is if I've already landed a couple of Master Biomancers, and if that's the case, I'm usually just swinging for the win with them. She felt like a whole lot of winmore in most of my builds.
I agree with you on Thrummingbird. I used to run Tezzeret's Gambit, but after I put Fathom Mages in, I found the extra card draw was kind of irrelevant, and then the card ended up being a 4 mana Proliferate.
I have a set of Noble Hierarchs in my Bant Exalted deck, and I never thought to add them to this deck. Do you find you need the extra ramp? I haven't had too many issues with mana in this deck even after taking out the Gyre Sages, and I just run a set of Birds.
Since you have so many mana dorks, why not run Mikaeus? He seems perfect for this deck, is also a 0/0 base for your mirrorweave shenanigans. With a thrummingbird out, he gives each creature you control a +1 counter each turn.
I had the same experiences with Gyre Sage. It ended up being harder than I anticipated even getting one Evolve so I could start proliferating. I felt like I held it back in my hand, waiting to get a Graft dude out first, just to get the ball rolling. I think any time I feel like I should hold back casting a nominally ramp card, the card probably isn't really worth playing. Gyre Sage ended up coming out.
I ended up replacing the Gyre Sages with Fathom Mages. I've found that the 1/1 means I have an easier time getting an Evolve out of it to get the Proliferate engine operational, and if it hits the board after one or even two Master Biomancers are already in play (which, granted, can be pretty late into the game), then I fill my hand up with enough cards to guarantee me the win.
I have completely fallen in love with your Mirrorweave/Simic Manipulator concept, and I am totally stealing the idea for my deck.
I am interested in your thoughts on Prime Speaker Zegana. I have tried and tried, but I have not been able to find a home for her in my deck. I feel like she arrives too late to have the impact that she really ought to have. The only times she's ever entered the game with a significant amount of counters on her is if I've already landed a couple of Master Biomancers, and if that's the case, I'm usually just swinging for the win with them. She felt like a whole lot of winmore in most of my builds.
I agree with you on Thrummingbird. I used to run Tezzeret's Gambit, but after I put Fathom Mages in, I found the extra card draw was kind of irrelevant, and then the card ended up being a 4 mana Proliferate.
I have a set of Noble Hierarchs in my Bant Exalted deck, and I never thought to add them to this deck. Do you find you need the extra ramp? I haven't had too many issues with mana in this deck even after taking out the Gyre Sages, and I just run a set of Birds.
Yeah i really wish gyre sage would work but he doesn't. I've tried prime speaker but i agree with you she's too slow, i've never cast her when she was in my hand, i always had better things to do. I think 8 mana dorks are a mistake, i found myself drawing too many of those late game. I'll use hierarchs because i have them, and also for extra biomancer value when you swing with him before casting another dude But birds are fine, the evasion is good if you manage to get a counter on them and then proliferate. They also can chump random flyers if needed.
Do note however that you still have to remove a +1/+1 counter from the manipulator. Even if it is to gain control of a creature with zero power.
Thank you for pointing this out, even if I was aware of this. Most of the creatures in the deck come with counter so it shouldn't be an big issue most of the times.
Since you have so many mana dorks, why not run Mikaeus? He seems perfect for this deck, is also a 0/0 base for your mirrorweave shenanigans. With a thrummingbird out, he gives each creature you control a +1 counter each turn.
I've considered mikaeus but i really don't want to make this 3 colors. He's a fine options for a white splash though.
Ok so since i removed birds, i'll be testing a new card for the deck: burst of strenght. Looks bad but it might be useful. It can be a combat trick, turning a trade into a chump, it can provide a surprise blocker, it works with manipulator, it can grow biomancer for extra counters, etc.
There may be better options. I'm trying to keep my curve not too high so if you have ideas for one or two mana cards, spells or creatures, please share them
So, not to try and hijack your thread, but I think I arrived at the same conclusion as you did regarding Fathom Mage. She was an absolute beast when everything worked perfectly, but too often she was a 4cmc 1 drop that just got removed before she amounted to anything. I decided to take her out.
Unfortunately, this left me without any card draw, and I'm a sucker for card draw, so I put back in two Tezzeret's Gambit. I'm not in love with the card, but I do like the combination of card draw and Proliferate. After going down to just the four Thrummingbirds for Proliferates, I felt I was coming up short when I didn't hit them/they got removed. I'm open to suggestions.
I thought I'd share my decklist. It's remarkably similar to yours, which tells me that I'm on the right track.
I've come to the same conclusion regarding card draw. So i've also added 2 gambits to my list. Also i'll try zameck guildmage, i never really got to test him enought. If i don't like him, i'll just add more gambits.
Also, burst of strenght is pretty bad, i didn't expect much of it though.
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modern:UW spirits, BR goblins
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4 cloudfin raptor
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 experiment one
4 thrummingbird
2 dream stalker
4 renegade krasis
4 plaxcaster frogling
4 cytoplast root-kin
4 mirrorweave
sorceries: 4
4 tezzeret's gambit
lands: 22
4 misty rainforest
4 hinterland harbor
4 breeding pool
4 llanowar reborn
3 island
3 forest
EDIT: new list updated
Gatecrash update: new guildmage beats old, and master biomancer takes corpsejack menace's spot, no need for black anymore! I'm not sure yet if any evolve creature is worth adding, i might update my list in the future.
This deck has a lot of useful synergies. Mirrorweave on a 0/0 becomes a one sided ***. Spike feeder is my out against aggro. Thrummingbird is in my opinion the only proliferate card worthy of playing.
Advices welcome!
The deck looks like its missing a few cards though. No goyf is the first glaring hole. Next is you are in black but not playing the cards that black likes best. Iok and thoughtseize are good adds. Try adding 4 goyf and 6 of the discards to make the deck stronger.
Fester, aquastrand, hydra, and thumming bird look like the weaest parts of the deck currently. Maybe drop the proliferate all together to make a better deck?
So you're basically saying to me "play another deck". Thanks
Goyf is boring and has no synergy with the deck (and he's expensive as hell). I don't like using a bunch of staples and calling it a deck of my own. I'm trying to find different synergies rather than making the same decks we see over and over. That way i get to have more fun building/playing my decks and people are unprepared for my strategies.
Festercreep is the weakest link but it has been useful. It can clear the board of tokens or x/1s. It's kinda good vs affinity. If they print a better 0/0 two drop he'll be the first to go.
Aquastrand is pretty solid, a 2/2 for 2 with 2 relevant abilities. The reach ability saved me quite a few times and graft is golden in this deck.
Thrummingbird is awesome. It pumps my army and itself if it has a counter on it from graft or spike feeder. It's the deck's best two drop for sure.
Hydra a weak link? Are you kidding me? She's a beast! Even if i cast it for x=1 i can often graft it and proliferate it into a trampling monster. With frogling i can protect her and with corpsejack she triples every turn, she's nuts in this deck and won me countless games.
Also, maybe you missed the mirrorweave interaction. I need this deck to contain 0/0s so i can turn all creatures into a 0/0 with it, making a one sided instant speed sweeper, save for creatures with +1/+1 counters. Dropping zero/zeros means i drop this deck altogether, and i'm not willing to do that.
EDIT: Sorry, I hadn't noticed that the deck is for Modern.
Thank you, i'm glad you like my list!
Yes, i'm really hoping for some evolve goodies from gatecrash! Maybe an evolve mana dork? That would be awesome!
Also, i've made a few changes, deck edited, now black is solely for corpsejack menace.
There are lots of others, too, but you can make some mean counter decks even in mono green. I would say that thrummingbird is maybe the only proliferate guy I'd play in here, though. He's pretty rough!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
A couple of evolvers were spoiled today. They're looking pretty good. There is a common and an uncommon for fast aggro and a rare one for insane CA in a deck like this. No mana dorks yet though.:)
I've been looking for a good graft build so I'll probably build something resembling your deck once Gatecrash is released.
Firstborn looks good but the triple green in the casting cost is turning me off. I've tried fungal behemoth but i found out he's pretty bad. It really sucks to top deck him on an empty board. Paragon looks ok but i don't think he's needed, i like my other 2 drops better. My biggest beater, the hydra, already has trample. Root-kin used to be in the deck and i really like him, but the reason he didn't make it in my final version is that the 4 cc slots are already full. I think both my 4 mana spells are better than him. He's totally legit though so me not playing him might be a mistake.
The draw lady looks sexy but like i said i don't want to clog my 4cc and have more bad starting hands. I might try her as a one of, because she seems crazy good with corpsejack menace, graft and simic guildmage.
I really like the one mana evolve flyer. If i'm cutting something for some evolve goodies i'm cutting blessings because they are very random. Still, i'll wait until the full spoiler before modifying my list again.
The other cards I looked at are Simic Manipulator and Cytoplast Manipulator. What are your thoughts on them? In some ways they're really appealing but they may just eat removal. Do you think they're viable in casual multiplayer? Are they worth cutting something out for?
Lorescale Coatl really deserves its own deck. It belongs in an aggro deck that sort of works out similarly to Soul Sisters. (Most of the deck is focused on doing something, ie gaining life or drawing cards, to pump up something like Lorescale Coatl or Ajani's Pridemate)
My thoughts on manipulators is their recquire too much works for them to be good. I could be wrong though.
I've considered the guildmage snake combo but i'm not sure they are worth adding, because snakes aren't good enough without the guildmages, and i only play 2 copies.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Not a bad idea. My favorite persist creature for this deck would be glen elendra archmage. Lock down the opponent's non creatures when you have the mana! I'll add 1 or 2 copies if i can trade for them.
Aerie ouphes might work too, kills every flyers. Probably too situational though.
Simic manipulator turned out better than expected. He's really good at stealing small creatures. Don't expect to steal anything bigger than 2 power with him. You can also mirrorweave him to steal your opponent's board!
Gyre sage were disappointing. I let myself convinced that they were strong but they aren't (for this deck). They just take too much time to accelerate, slowing down the deck.
Also, since the deck is somewhat slow without mana acceleration, i've added 3 noble hierarch. They are also very good because of the high number of 3 drops in the deck.
Biomancer really is the mvp of the deck. It is quite easy to get his power up to 3-4, and he turns bad topdecks into threats.
I ended up replacing the Gyre Sages with Fathom Mages. I've found that the 1/1 means I have an easier time getting an Evolve out of it to get the Proliferate engine operational, and if it hits the board after one or even two Master Biomancers are already in play (which, granted, can be pretty late into the game), then I fill my hand up with enough cards to guarantee me the win.
I have completely fallen in love with your Mirrorweave/Simic Manipulator concept, and I am totally stealing the idea for my deck.
I am interested in your thoughts on Prime Speaker Zegana. I have tried and tried, but I have not been able to find a home for her in my deck. I feel like she arrives too late to have the impact that she really ought to have. The only times she's ever entered the game with a significant amount of counters on her is if I've already landed a couple of Master Biomancers, and if that's the case, I'm usually just swinging for the win with them. She felt like a whole lot of winmore in most of my builds.
I agree with you on Thrummingbird. I used to run Tezzeret's Gambit, but after I put Fathom Mages in, I found the extra card draw was kind of irrelevant, and then the card ended up being a 4 mana Proliferate.
I have a set of Noble Hierarchs in my Bant Exalted deck, and I never thought to add them to this deck. Do you find you need the extra ramp? I haven't had too many issues with mana in this deck even after taking out the Gyre Sages, and I just run a set of Birds.
Finally, I also run Experiment Kraj, because why not?
Yeah i really wish gyre sage would work but he doesn't. I've tried prime speaker but i agree with you she's too slow, i've never cast her when she was in my hand, i always had better things to do. I think 8 mana dorks are a mistake, i found myself drawing too many of those late game. I'll use hierarchs because i have them, and also for extra biomancer value when you swing with him before casting another dude But birds are fine, the evasion is good if you manage to get a counter on them and then proliferate. They also can chump random flyers if needed.
Thank you for pointing this out, even if I was aware of this. Most of the creatures in the deck come with counter so it shouldn't be an big issue most of the times.
I've considered mikaeus but i really don't want to make this 3 colors. He's a fine options for a white splash though.
Ok so since i removed birds, i'll be testing a new card for the deck: burst of strenght. Looks bad but it might be useful. It can be a combat trick, turning a trade into a chump, it can provide a surprise blocker, it works with manipulator, it can grow biomancer for extra counters, etc.
There may be better options. I'm trying to keep my curve not too high so if you have ideas for one or two mana cards, spells or creatures, please share them
Unfortunately, this left me without any card draw, and I'm a sucker for card draw, so I put back in two Tezzeret's Gambit. I'm not in love with the card, but I do like the combination of card draw and Proliferate. After going down to just the four Thrummingbirds for Proliferates, I felt I was coming up short when I didn't hit them/they got removed. I'm open to suggestions.
I thought I'd share my decklist. It's remarkably similar to yours, which tells me that I'm on the right track.
8x Island
4x Breeding Pool
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Llanowar Reborn
4x Mirrorweave
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Primordial Hydra
4x Thrummingbird
4x Plaxcaster Frogling
4x Simic Manipulator
4x Spike Feeder
4x Master Biomancer
2x Experiment Kraj
Also, burst of strenght is pretty bad, i didn't expect much of it though.