This card is something I'm considering to add into my cube for the loam/crucible decks and just the ability to grab some sweet nonbasic lands. I used to run it but I eventually cut it. What do people rank it in their G/W sections?
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I started with this card in the cube and I'm pretty sure it's staying that way. My cube is only 400 cards and features all the fun lands like Library, Maze, Stripmine, Academy Ruins, and so forth, so there's never really a draft where you can pick up Knight and not have a special land on hand.
For me, Knight and Sigarda are at the top of being cut when RTR rolls in, to make space for Dryad militant. The cut is probably knight because resolving a sigarda is usually much more impactful than resolving a knight. It does make me sad, as knight is a very interesting card, but my playgroup picks sigarda much more highly.
I like the Knight more than Sigarda, and I'll be keeping it as one of my 5 g/w cards even after the RtR update.
It's a great creature that searches up fixing, utility lands and win cons. In addition to thinning the deck and turning itself into a threatening creature over a short span of time.
It's my 5th favorite Selesnya card after Militant, Finks, Pridemage and Lion.
I am a bit torn: Sigarda, Host of Herons is a safer way to victory, but Knight of the Reliquary is the way more interesting card. She allows you do use some kind of land toolbox in your deck and forces you to make relevant decisions during game play.
She seems to be one of those cards that is better in smaller cubes though. The density of fetch lands and good utility lands is higher there.
@ eidolon: I didn't know the Maze of Ith trick (never played with it before) - that is pretty cool! Using it in the end of combat step to retroactively give one of your attackers vigiliance is pretty nice.
I'm quite confused. Sigarda wins the game all on her own, while knight is very vulnerable to even the lighter burn spells. She does cool tricks, but Sigarda wins the game. How is Kotr better than Sigarda?
I'm quite confused. Sigarda wins the game all on her own, while knight is very vulnerable to even the lighter burn spells. She does cool tricks, but Sigarda wins the game. How is Kotr better than Sigarda?
Any cubeable 5+ drop can win the game all on their own or generate insane long term advantage. Sigarda is really good but I could play a Simic Sky Swallower, or Sphinx of Jwar Isle, or Jace3, or Eternal Dragon, or whatever in her place in a Bant midrange deck and do just as well. Powerful, cheap, spells are more important to make sure you don't die to aggro/get ahead of control/stay alive to play your better cards as control/get in solid early beats as aggro/ect.
If there is a 5-7 drop with a power level of 9,001 and a 2-3 drop with a power level of 7,000 I am probably snapping off the cheaper card every time just because the high end stuff is more intrchangeable. I think Knight vs Sigarda is pretty close though and wouldn't fault you for running/not running either.
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Any cubeable 5+ drop can win the game all on their own or generate insane long term advantage. Sigarda is really good but I could play a Simic Sky Swallower, or Sphinx of Jwar Isle, or Jace3, or Eternal Dragon, or whatever in her place in a Bant midrange deck and do just as well. Powerful, cheap, spells are more important to make sure you don't die to aggro/get ahead of control/stay alive to play your better cards as control/get in solid early beats as aggro/ect.
If there is a 5-7 drop with a power level of 9,001 and a 2-3 drop with a power level of 7,000 I am probably snapping off the cheaper card every time just because the high end stuff is more intrchangeable. I think Knight vs Sigarda is pretty close though and wouldn't fault you for running/not running either.
Every last bit of this. Sigarda is good, but interchangeable. If you're looking for a 3cc utility creature that has synergy with the rest of your loam/crucible/utility land deck, KotR isn't. It does something more unique, more interesting and fills a role no other 3-drops can. That's not the case with Sigarda.
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People that don't like/run green aggro typically pass on Loam Lion. I love green aggro, I play a lot of Selesnya and Naya aggro, and Loam Lion is a pure staple in my list. Interchangeability doesn't really apply to 2-power 1-drops, because I'll play as many as I can get a hold of.
The knight is one of my favorite cards ever printed, especially for cube:
-- It's a solid but not uncuttable card if you don't draft around it.
-- It's a build-around-me, and only becomes truly strong when you draft cards that combine well with it (utility lands, crucible, etc.)
-- It provides a lot of options for players, as it can be used to ramp, or simply sit back and grow itself / remove lands, or fetch utility lands
-- It rewards skilled play
It leads people to draft and play more intelligently, which is the #1 goal of my cube--a fun, balanced draft environment that rewards draftskill and playskill (and improves both). One day in the future, when every card is both a utility cog and a build-around-me, Cube will be perfect. I wish every card were like Knight (and Snapcaster, and Fauna Shaman, and Liliana of the Veil, etc.)
As for Sigarda, I can't think of a less interesting or rewarding card. She's powerful, but--like Jace3--in the most boring possible way.
After the Tier 1 of Militant, Finks, Lion and Pridemage you have a choice of Sigarda, Armada Wurm and KotR which are all great cards. After that I like Selesnya Charm a great deal. If for some reason you need more there's Gavony Township and Sundering Growth. If you really, really want to scrape the barrel there's Wilt-Leaf Liege and Wake.
Basically, anyone running a 7 card section or less doesn't need any filler, and that's a good place to be.
FWIW, KotR is something I may test in place of Sigarda for a bit. I like interacting with lands in graveyards, and I'll maybe test Deathrite Shaman too.
Any cubeable 5+ drop can win the game all on their own or generate insane long term advantage. Sigarda is really good but I could play a Simic Sky Swallower, or Sphinx of Jwar Isle, or Jace3, or Eternal Dragon, or whatever in her place in a Bant midrange deck and do just as well. Powerful, cheap, spells are more important to make sure you don't die to aggro/get ahead of control/stay alive to play your better cards as control/get in solid early beats as aggro/ect.
Then why run any multicolor 5+ drop? I think Sigarda's better than SSS, Jwar Isle, and Eternal Dragon (don't run Jace 3, not sure there), but I have to run an inferior big dude to make room for Knight of the Reliquary?
In monocolor, if we're considering adding a card, and we're happy with the balance of our cube, we'd consider the similar cards. If I have a new green fatty, I compare to other fatties. I don't compare it to Birds of Paradise. In multicolor, we've got Loam Lion, Knight of the Reliquary, Mirari's Wake, and Sigarda all fighting for the same spots despite what vastly different roles they play.
I'm not sure what the right answer is, but I think the way we (and I have been doing this as well) not only classify our multicolored sections but the way we look at whether or not to add a particular multicolored card is unfair to the multicolor cards. Hopefully with the coming of the new set and the re-balancing/re-imagining of what our multicolor sections look like we don't have to worry about Knight of the Reliquary having to fight against a card that plays an entirely different role.
I can understand that. If you wanted to run 1 selesnya aggro card (Loam Lion), 1 selesnya midrange card (Kitchen Finks), and 1 selesnya high end card (Sigarda) KotR wouldn't be fighting against Sigarda even though it is in the same section. It would be competeing against other GW 2-4 drops like Finks and Pridemage.
As to why to run a multicolor fatty boom boom (or any at all even) is because some are tier (or tiers) above the rest like Karn, or Elesh Norn, or Grave Titan. Sigarda is just kinda a hard to remove but otherwise unspectacular flier. I think you should only be running the best cards and that is especially true at higher mana costs.
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As to why to run a multicolor fatty boom boom (or any at all even) is because some are tier (or tiers) above the rest like Karn, or Elesh Norn, or Grave Titan. Sigarda is just kinda a hard to remove but otherwise unspectacular flier. I think you should only be running the best cards and that is especially true at higher mana costs.
i just totally disagree with this. one or two mana is a huge difference in the cube, and sigarda has no business being that cheap. sigarda is big, evasive, and almost impossible to kill. i definitely like her better than karn, and i don't even run elesh norn. i agree you should only be running the best cards, and i think sigarda is definitely one of the best.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
She's constantly getting cut from my decks because she doesn't do anything to further the deck strategy. She's got good stats, but that's it. And G/W, of all the color combinations, doesn't need a creature that just has good stats.
i don't think she just has good stats. being evasive and impervious to everything except sweepers is not a common thing. how many cards can claim to do that?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
i don't think she just has good stats. being evasive and impervious to everything except sweepers is not a common thing. how many cards can claim to do that?
Ya, but my G/W decks don't need that though. They're stacked with threats. So survivability is less important than impact.
This isn't a W/U control deck that has 5 creatures in it where it being immune to every piece of removal is critical. It's going into a W/G deck that's going to be filled to the brim with creatures that function as spells for me. Except her. She'll just be a dude.
If this were printed in a controlling combination, it would be one of the best creatures ever. But as a mid-range creature, she's lost amongst the more important cards.
On the other hand, Armada Wurm is a super spicy Natural Order target, and loves cards like Flickerwisp and Karmic Guide, is a boss reanimator target, and ultimately puts twice as much power as Sigarda on the field for 1 more green mana.
I objectively like Sigarda as a card, but I think the Wurm is too synergistic with what WG wants to be doing to pass up. The art sucks, but oh well.
Ya, but my G/W decks don't need that though. They're stacked with threats. So survivability is less important than impact.
This isn't a W/U control deck that has 5 creatures in it where it being immune to every piece of removal is critical. It's going into a W/G deck that's going to be filled to the brim with creatures that function as spells for me. Except her. She'll just be a dude.
If this were printed in a controlling combination, it would be one of the best creatures ever. But as a mid-range creature, she's lost amongst the more important cards.
That gives me a new, different, perspective on how much color affects a card's power. If KotR and Sigarda were UB I would be fully on Mrs. Sigarda's side. Huh.
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Knight of the Reliquary
This card is something I'm considering to add into my cube for the loam/crucible decks and just the ability to grab some sweet nonbasic lands. I used to run it but I eventually cut it. What do people rank it in their G/W sections?
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It's a great creature that searches up fixing, utility lands and win cons. In addition to thinning the deck and turning itself into a threatening creature over a short span of time.
It's my 5th favorite Selesnya card after Militant, Finks, Pridemage and Lion.
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She seems to be one of those cards that is better in smaller cubes though. The density of fetch lands and good utility lands is higher there.
@ eidolon: I didn't know the Maze of Ith trick (never played with it before) - that is pretty cool! Using it in the end of combat step to retroactively give one of your attackers vigiliance is pretty nice.
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Any cubeable 5+ drop can win the game all on their own or generate insane long term advantage. Sigarda is really good but I could play a Simic Sky Swallower, or Sphinx of Jwar Isle, or Jace3, or Eternal Dragon, or whatever in her place in a Bant midrange deck and do just as well. Powerful, cheap, spells are more important to make sure you don't die to aggro/get ahead of control/stay alive to play your better cards as control/get in solid early beats as aggro/ect.
If there is a 5-7 drop with a power level of 9,001 and a 2-3 drop with a power level of 7,000 I am probably snapping off the cheaper card every time just because the high end stuff is more intrchangeable. I think Knight vs Sigarda is pretty close though and wouldn't fault you for running/not running either.
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Every last bit of this. Sigarda is good, but interchangeable. If you're looking for a 3cc utility creature that has synergy with the rest of your loam/crucible/utility land deck, KotR isn't. It does something more unique, more interesting and fills a role no other 3-drops can. That's not the case with Sigarda.
People that don't like/run green aggro typically pass on Loam Lion. I love green aggro, I play a lot of Selesnya and Naya aggro, and Loam Lion is a pure staple in my list. Interchangeability doesn't really apply to 2-power 1-drops, because I'll play as many as I can get a hold of.
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-- It's a solid but not uncuttable card if you don't draft around it.
-- It's a build-around-me, and only becomes truly strong when you draft cards that combine well with it (utility lands, crucible, etc.)
-- It provides a lot of options for players, as it can be used to ramp, or simply sit back and grow itself / remove lands, or fetch utility lands
-- It rewards skilled play
It leads people to draft and play more intelligently, which is the #1 goal of my cube--a fun, balanced draft environment that rewards draftskill and playskill (and improves both). One day in the future, when every card is both a utility cog and a build-around-me, Cube will be perfect. I wish every card were like Knight (and Snapcaster, and Fauna Shaman, and Liliana of the Veil, etc.)
As for Sigarda, I can't think of a less interesting or rewarding card. She's powerful, but--like Jace3--in the most boring possible way.
Basically, anyone running a 7 card section or less doesn't need any filler, and that's a good place to be.
FWIW, KotR is something I may test in place of Sigarda for a bit. I like interacting with lands in graveyards, and I'll maybe test Deathrite Shaman too.
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Then why run any multicolor 5+ drop? I think Sigarda's better than SSS, Jwar Isle, and Eternal Dragon (don't run Jace 3, not sure there), but I have to run an inferior big dude to make room for Knight of the Reliquary?
In monocolor, if we're considering adding a card, and we're happy with the balance of our cube, we'd consider the similar cards. If I have a new green fatty, I compare to other fatties. I don't compare it to Birds of Paradise. In multicolor, we've got Loam Lion, Knight of the Reliquary, Mirari's Wake, and Sigarda all fighting for the same spots despite what vastly different roles they play.
I'm not sure what the right answer is, but I think the way we (and I have been doing this as well) not only classify our multicolored sections but the way we look at whether or not to add a particular multicolored card is unfair to the multicolor cards. Hopefully with the coming of the new set and the re-balancing/re-imagining of what our multicolor sections look like we don't have to worry about Knight of the Reliquary having to fight against a card that plays an entirely different role.
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As to why to run a multicolor fatty boom boom (or any at all even) is because some are tier (or tiers) above the rest like Karn, or Elesh Norn, or Grave Titan. Sigarda is just kinda a hard to remove but otherwise unspectacular flier. I think you should only be running the best cards and that is especially true at higher mana costs.
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i just totally disagree with this. one or two mana is a huge difference in the cube, and sigarda has no business being that cheap. sigarda is big, evasive, and almost impossible to kill. i definitely like her better than karn, and i don't even run elesh norn. i agree you should only be running the best cards, and i think sigarda is definitely one of the best.
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Ya, but my G/W decks don't need that though. They're stacked with threats. So survivability is less important than impact.
This isn't a W/U control deck that has 5 creatures in it where it being immune to every piece of removal is critical. It's going into a W/G deck that's going to be filled to the brim with creatures that function as spells for me. Except her. She'll just be a dude.
If this were printed in a controlling combination, it would be one of the best creatures ever. But as a mid-range creature, she's lost amongst the more important cards.
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I objectively like Sigarda as a card, but I think the Wurm is too synergistic with what WG wants to be doing to pass up. The art sucks, but oh well.
And yea, KotR is cool too.
That gives me a new, different, perspective on how much color affects a card's power. If KotR and Sigarda were UB I would be fully on Mrs. Sigarda's side. Huh.
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Well...you know what I mean.
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