It was one of two cards we banned at 540 powered based on power-level concerns (really archetype-warping concerns). It can completely stop your opponent from winning with creatures, which can be a giant blowout against most aggressive and mid-range decks. However, Moat is often played and in the same camp - although this is arguably harder to deal with than Moat.
We wanted to encourage a greater amount of archetype balance, so we banned this and later Pulse of the Fields in our 540 cube. We've recently toyed with the idea of adding both back into the 720 cube, where we'll see both more infrequently.
i think it makes the cut on power level alone but i don't include it because i don't feel like it's necessary and can hurt aggro unnecessarily. i've always liked it, though, so a reinclusion isn't out of the question. at 720 i'd include it with little reservation.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
The big downside of the card is that since you are not the only person playing, up to 14 other players have to wait for your match to finish.
Yeah this. This seems like a "lose slower" card. Like Zuran Orb. And if you get cruicible then it comes down to who decks first. If you want persistent fogs, moment's peace is better anyway.
Maybe you could have cube-specific errata for Constant Mists to the effect of "You lose the match in twenty minutes from the time you first play this card"? It could be applied to Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack, as well.
I'd rather just remove cards that slow games down to a crawl then issue special errata. There are plenty of other fun cards to cube with that I don't feel bad leaving out a few that slow down matches so consistently.
I didn't think much of the card at first (just another boring fog effect), but the more I think about it the more insane this card seems. I can see someone dropping a Planeswalker like Garruk or Elspeth, then sitting on this card until they establish an army, then win via their ultimates.
How is this card not in more cubes, or talked about more? This seems like it could break into the top 20 green cards in Cube.
Because it's not that good. It doesn't fog more than Moment's Peace on average. Unless you're combining it with Crucible of Worlds or Life From the Loam, it wasn't particularly special.
So, we added this card for the 540 in testing, and it's really oppressive.
Has anyone had extended testing with this thing? If you can't counter it, it can completely lock out opposing decks that don't have reach.
As cubes get smaller and higher powered, I would think this thing would get way less oppressive since you can win before the opponent has a lot of lands to sacrifice to it in addition to doing lots of other stuff on his turn, but once he gets to 6ish mana and can start using the remaining 4 mana to do stuff, it's really hard to come back from this kind of a constant advantage, especially when you can only swing with half of your guys or risk getting alpha striked.
We don't play at 360 anymore, but I would recommend playing this at any cube size based on power level if time constraints aren't a serious concern for you.
I think it's the most powerful of the Fog variants and I considered and rejected its inclusion for many of the reasons outlined above. Power level it's probably good enough somewhere 540ish IMO, as several turns to get to a PW ultimate will usually win a game, but the stalling a loss without a wincon made something I've just never wanted to run.
We ran this card a long time ago. In a multiplayer cube it's an all-star as you'll typically have a lot of time to recover from decimating your mana base. In 1v1, unless you have crucible or a clock that thoroughly beats theirs, they just play the waiting game against you while watching you slowly become unable to cast spells.
Another detriment is that the green decks that I see don't really want to dick around constantly misting. Obviously the green aggro decks have no interest in this card, but also my green ramp decks are OK with not having a constant mists. Green aggro doesn't even really struggle against aggro to need this card as so many of their rampers are good at stalling for you and playing your big things ahead of curve will often put whatever offense they have against you to a screaming halt.
This card isn't even that great with planeswalkers. If they're playing red, the card does actual nothing, and there are enough ways to remove planeswalkers now that stalling with one is less of a viable option. Back when planeswalkers first came out I can imagine this card being better with them, but now we have Hero's Downfall/Pulse/Vindicate/others Im missing.
I've also never really liked strictly sideboard cards either as I feel they waste space in drafts and your cube. Yes, they will make a huge difference when they come in, but I find that I often have so many playables by the end of the draft that I already will have a pretty well-rounded sideboard without having to draft that additional silver bullet. I'd almost always run cards in my cube that are maindeckable in at least one supported archetype than a card that only comes in against certain decks.
We saw it mostly in mid-range decks that didn't use green as a main color, but a secondary color or a splash. The card was and is fantastic with planeswalkers. Just because answers to planeswalkers exist does not mean your opponent will 1) always have them, 2) be able to deal with multiple planeswalkers you have.
I also disagree that the card does nothing against red. It stops a large amount of their damage if they are focused on dealing it through creatures, and if you have lifegain cards such as Batterskull, Thragtusk, etc etc, you can gain life while stopping their consistent and constant source of damage.
I'm actually a fan of sideboard-only cards in cube, since you'll always be able to reach enough playables. Sideboard-only cards are actually much weaker in a format like M15 because you are sometimes barely at a 23-playable-cards count, but in cube that number is normally much, much higher. Same reasons I like interesting nonbasics in cube more.
I actually believe the card would be much worse in multiplayer since you can be attacked multiple times before you get an untap step and another land drop.
So I actually think I disagree with almost everything you said in that post, haha.
I've had this in my cube since its inception, so like six or seven years. Never been close to cutting it. It's a unique effect in cube with Spanish Inquisition-level surprise factor. It's mainly there as a soft lock with Crucible, but it's also been useful in threat-light decks that may need time to draw into the game ending creature/spell.
We play mostly 2HG for multi-player, which, unlike free-for-all, is probably the format where this is strongest.
I actually believe the card would be much worse in multiplayer since you can be attacked multiple times before you get an untap step and another land drop.
So I actually think I disagree with almost everything you said in that post, haha.
If everyone on the table is trying to attack through constant mists, then I must be far ahead and mists is doing serious work keeping me there or their priorities are off base and that sucks no matter what I'm doing.
I've had this in my cube since its inception, so like six or seven years. Never been close to cutting it. It's a unique effect in cube with Spanish Inquisition-level surprise factor.
Ooh, is this in reference to a deck I created for Legacy a few years ago?
Many people will always hate this card and choose to exclude it based on archetype balance or pure animosity... But now that we have a second Crucible of Worlds in the form of Ramunap Excavator, is Constant Mists worth re-evaluating on power level? Gonna make room for it in my 630 unpowered cube again but I don't have a copy of Excavator yet; I need to prioritize picking one up.
Wow, I've never seen that card, but I'm sold! Seems very powerful, but in a unique way. Maybe it'll make games slow, but also it's an easy lock to scoop to if you can't get out of it. Will test it for sure.
What's everyone's take on Constant Mists?
It was one of two cards we banned at 540 powered based on power-level concerns (really archetype-warping concerns). It can completely stop your opponent from winning with creatures, which can be a giant blowout against most aggressive and mid-range decks. However, Moat is often played and in the same camp - although this is arguably harder to deal with than Moat.
We wanted to encourage a greater amount of archetype balance, so we banned this and later Pulse of the Fields in our 540 cube. We've recently toyed with the idea of adding both back into the 720 cube, where we'll see both more infrequently.
What are your experiences with the card?
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Yep, this is a major reason we cut it too, thinking back to it actually.
Sometimes games can go pretty long though, I don't think that's a particularly valid reason to cut a card. People can just purposely play faster. Meh.
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Yeah this. This seems like a "lose slower" card. Like Zuran Orb. And if you get cruicible then it comes down to who decks first. If you want persistent fogs, moment's peace is better anyway.
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How is this card not in more cubes, or talked about more? This seems like it could break into the top 20 green cards in Cube.
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It's very powerful but really throws archetype balance for a loop - it is very detrimental to aggro while not being that strong against control.
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Has anyone had extended testing with this thing? If you can't counter it, it can completely lock out opposing decks that don't have reach.
As cubes get smaller and higher powered, I would think this thing would get way less oppressive since you can win before the opponent has a lot of lands to sacrifice to it in addition to doing lots of other stuff on his turn, but once he gets to 6ish mana and can start using the remaining 4 mana to do stuff, it's really hard to come back from this kind of a constant advantage, especially when you can only swing with half of your guys or risk getting alpha striked.
We don't play at 360 anymore, but I would recommend playing this at any cube size based on power level if time constraints aren't a serious concern for you.
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Another detriment is that the green decks that I see don't really want to dick around constantly misting. Obviously the green aggro decks have no interest in this card, but also my green ramp decks are OK with not having a constant mists. Green aggro doesn't even really struggle against aggro to need this card as so many of their rampers are good at stalling for you and playing your big things ahead of curve will often put whatever offense they have against you to a screaming halt.
This card isn't even that great with planeswalkers. If they're playing red, the card does actual nothing, and there are enough ways to remove planeswalkers now that stalling with one is less of a viable option. Back when planeswalkers first came out I can imagine this card being better with them, but now we have Hero's Downfall/Pulse/Vindicate/others Im missing.
I've also never really liked strictly sideboard cards either as I feel they waste space in drafts and your cube. Yes, they will make a huge difference when they come in, but I find that I often have so many playables by the end of the draft that I already will have a pretty well-rounded sideboard without having to draft that additional silver bullet. I'd almost always run cards in my cube that are maindeckable in at least one supported archetype than a card that only comes in against certain decks.
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We saw it mostly in mid-range decks that didn't use green as a main color, but a secondary color or a splash. The card was and is fantastic with planeswalkers. Just because answers to planeswalkers exist does not mean your opponent will 1) always have them, 2) be able to deal with multiple planeswalkers you have.
I also disagree that the card does nothing against red. It stops a large amount of their damage if they are focused on dealing it through creatures, and if you have lifegain cards such as Batterskull, Thragtusk, etc etc, you can gain life while stopping their consistent and constant source of damage.
I'm actually a fan of sideboard-only cards in cube, since you'll always be able to reach enough playables. Sideboard-only cards are actually much weaker in a format like M15 because you are sometimes barely at a 23-playable-cards count, but in cube that number is normally much, much higher. Same reasons I like interesting nonbasics in cube more.
I actually believe the card would be much worse in multiplayer since you can be attacked multiple times before you get an untap step and another land drop.
So I actually think I disagree with almost everything you said in that post, haha.
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We play mostly 2HG for multi-player, which, unlike free-for-all, is probably the format where this is strongest.
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If everyone on the table is trying to attack through constant mists, then I must be far ahead and mists is doing serious work keeping me there or their priorities are off base and that sucks no matter what I'm doing.
And these things happen.
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Ooh, is this in reference to a deck I created for Legacy a few years ago?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/combo/179815-deck-spanish-inquisition-b-x-storm-combo
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450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Many people will always hate this card and choose to exclude it based on archetype balance or pure animosity... But now that we have a second Crucible of Worlds in the form of Ramunap Excavator, is Constant Mists worth re-evaluating on power level? Gonna make room for it in my 630 unpowered cube again but I don't have a copy of Excavator yet; I need to prioritize picking one up.
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