[GTC] – no can't be countered cycle

[FieryBalrog]

Originally Posted by The_Exiler_v2.0

I understand, but we STILL have people complaining about counterspells when there is flashback, a can't be countered cycle, a land that stops countering certain creatures AND you could tally scavenge in there.

I'm glad there's more uncounterable stuff because of Eternal formats, where there are plenty of amazing counterspells. I don't play Standard so I'm happy when there's more uncounterable stuff for EDH or Legacy.

Furthermore, removal is also quite bad in Standard right now.

If Wizards can print Hexproof, Shroud, Indestructible, and so on then they can also print uncounterable. Why do people cry so much about uncounterable? Counterspells kill ETB effects, removal doesn't. Counterspells get around Undying or Hexproof, most removal doesn't. Counterspells are the only things that can deal with sorceries and instants as they're cast (kinda huge). And leaving mana open isn't that big of a deal when it's something like Mana Leak (Cancel is obviously different).

[FieryBalrog]

Originally Posted by Wildfire393

The tradeoff is that you need to have your countermagic in hand with the resources to pay for it at the time that your opponent casts the spell that you want to counter. This puts pressure on you, as you cannot tap out to cast things on your own turn while leaving counter mana up.
Let's look at a situation where you have either a Mana Leak or a Doom Blade. You tap out on your turn to cast a Jace Beleren. Your opponent untaps and drops a Knight of the Reliquary. Since you tapped out, you can't Leak it, but you can untap and Doom Blade it.

Not much of a trade off when you have other instant speed EOT options, like Think Twice. You can operate at the end of your opponent's turn.

Historically, there have been MANY times when decks running counterspells can also operate mostly at the end of an opponent's turn. Think Faeries, where you can cast your whole creature suite whenever you please.

[Miss Information]

I have mixed feelings about this. I like them, because they can be good for eternal formats, but they do become staples and hard to balance.

[Boros_Archangel]

Like other people have said we have things like indestructibility and hexproof that protect from removal so it only makes sense to print cards that would protect from counters as well. Add that to the effect that counters are generally considered "catch all" answers. I'd say more uncounterable cards are good for the game. Honestly I'd love to see more Split Second cards.

[micaelmorais]

Why so much complaines about they will not print more cards that cant be countered.
Did you guys figure out this type of abilities bring lake of brains for any meta.

[iamghost]

Originally Posted by Unskilled Ninja

I think it's a good idea not to continue cycles between the two sets; we want to still have some unpredictability between RTR and GTC!

yeah.
plus, uncounterable cards are EVIL. i hate them.

[DIABOLUS]

Originally Posted by FieryBalrog

Why do people cry so much about uncounterable? Counterspells kill ETB effects, removal doesn't. Counterspells get around Undying or Hexproof, most removal doesn't. Counterspells are the only things that can deal with sorceries and instants as they're cast (kinda huge). And leaving mana open isn't that big of a deal when it's something like Mana Leak (Cancel is obviously different).

'Cause it makes blue too strong, or splashing blue obligatory.

[Arashmin]

If more than just blue had some countermagic on a more regular basis, it would make things far more interesting and not so blue dependent.

[cjwynes]

Originally Posted by Boros_Archangel

Like other people have said we have things like indestructibility and hexproof that protect from removal so it only makes sense to print cards that would protect from counters as well. Add that to the effect that counters are generally considered "catch all" answers. I'd say more uncounterable cards are good for the game. Honestly I'd love to see more Split Second cards.

I'd say that having a number of "uncounterable" cards roughly equivalent to the average number and quality of hexproof cards probably isn't unreasonable. Picking specific cards to test and balance with the uncounterability, making sure only certain effects at certain power levels are immune to counterspells, that's the way to go.

The big mistake was Cavern of Souls, which makes any creature uncounterable. Zac Hill acted like he was the champion of kitchen table players and FNM Timmies everywhere by letting all their creatures resolve, as if creatures were all inherently fair and could never be dangerous or format warping. Then Thragtusk happened, oops. Yeah, turns out they've printed some bonkers creatures recently, and some of them are ONLY interacted with on a reasonable basis by countering them.

When design chooses carefully which creatures or spells will get "uncounterable" I think it's fine to have some number of those around, and the acceptable number is probably higher than it is now. I really don't think more uncounterable cards would be a problem if they were picky about what got that clause. When they print a broad enabler like Cavern, that's a dangerous move.