I run Mond Stone, Everflowing Chalice, Coldsteel Heart and Guardian Idol. I don't run any of the Signets/Talisman anymore. I much prefer using the colorless mana rocks that all decks can use, and excluding the ones that are tied to the specific colors.
In my 360, I believe I only have Mind Stone and Grim Monolith at 2cmc. I think I'd like to add at least one more, they fit into several decks and don't negate green's ramp ability
I run signets, Mind Stone, the Blue Talismans (in the gold section), and Grim Monolith. I recently cut the Signets from the cube for a few drafts to get a feel for what its like, and I miss them dearly. They will be going back in ASAP.
I run Mond Stone, Everflowing Chalice, Coldsteel Heart and Guardian Idol. I don't run any of the Signets/Talisman anymore. I much prefer using the colorless mana rocks that all decks can use, and excluding the ones that are tied to the specific colors.
Im down to 2 signets myself. I would like to cut those also, leave the color fixing to mostly green while still providing some ramp for other decks.
As a somewhat out-there pick I'd also consider Pentad Prism. It allows for 5 mana on turn 3, which is pretty good. Of course, it's more like a ritual in that respect, similar in some ways to Grim Monolith. And it's only marginally worse than Sphere of the Suns in terms of total mana generation.
Coldsteel heart seems better in most cases. But I suppose if you think Gemstone Mine is good enough, Sphere probably makes your cube as well.
Not at all the same. Gemstone Mine is good because it fixes your early mana for aggressive decks. It's a totally different function than the same effect strapped to an ETBT mana rock.
As the last block gave us a lot of cool and interesting multicolor cards I have hard times to justify a spot for signets in the guild section. IMO in unpowered cubes at least the blue ones are needed for the artifact/wildfire/upheavel decks.
My idea was that I may put the signets in the coloress section as they also get played outside of their guilds and u dont need to have e.g. UB mana to play Dimir Signet. I know that they play different roles than Moxes and the comparison has weak points, but Moxes are also played in colorless and not in their colors.
This is entirely up to you. In the end classification is a tool to find your cards and achieve good balance. If it stands in the way of what you want to do designwise, then change it.
We have a semi unbalanced fixing section, a colourless section and a multicoloured section.
These are what I run in my 540 cube. I like them all more than signets because they either can't fix or aren't as good as signets. This way green ramp still gets most of the fixing, but other control decks can still get mana ramp.
For me, even the ones I want for those decks are pretty far down on the list (#5-#7 usually). But I play a powered cube, so that probably impacts how they're ranked. I like most of the colorless ones more than the Signets/Talisman anyways. They serve the same purpose, and can go in a variety of decks (we usually don't play them unless both colors give us value) and usually have some kind of additional value they bring with them.
I run an artifact themed cube at 180, and as a result, especially with the somewhat slow and dragonic nature of my cube, fast mana is extremely important. I know this is about 2-drop rocks, so this is just to give you an idea: I actually had to cut Sol Ring for consistently blowing out every game where it was played prior to turn 3. That said, I don't have much use for 2-cmc mana rocks. The only 2-drop mana production cards in my cube are Everflowing Chalice and Plague Myr. I fully realize that the nature of my cube lends me something of a slanted view, but I really massively prefer 3-cmc mana rocks. I have tons of those. That said, I have been meaning to test Mind Stone and Gaurdian Statue both of which I think are great and hold value, even once you don't need the mana anymore, which to me is what marks a great mana rock and is part of the reason I really like the Keyrunes.
All listed decks are physical EDH decks. I mostly only play EDH. Deck lists with my requests for suggestions will be forthcoming.
Also I have a cube on Cube Tutor! Comments on that would be greatly appreciated. Additionally if you intend to draft it you have to use 5 packs of 9 cards with 3 bots.
I'm considering Fellwar Stone and Guardian Idol as well. The diamonds will likely be cut for moxen at whatever point I actually can manage that.
The important thing here is ensuring that there is a critical mass of mana rocks. My experience isn't that they warp the meta. Decks like the artifact deck and ramp will grab every one that they can, and they want as many as 10+ for just a single deck in order to ensure that they can get the explosive ramp starts that they need to compete with decks like fast aggro. I don't subscribe to the concept that the stones and fixing should be limited. They are in high demand as is, why constrain them beyond the point where the decks that need them could get them?
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Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
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ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
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ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
On advice from hardb0dy, who highly recommended the signets to me, I decided to give them a try. I'll give a brief overview below, and go into more detail after.
Action: Added all 10 signets to my Cube, cutting 2 cards from each color section for the slots.
Desired results: To aid the emerging artifact archetype; reinforce Wildfire and Upheaval decks; more fixing for multi-color archetypes
Expected drawbacks: Diminished aggro presence and reduction in Green's role as a source of mana ramp
Actual outcome: The new artifact deck is very powerful and consistent; Wildfire and Upheaval decks more viable than before; easier to splash for cards in multi-color decks; aggro decks have not been diminished by the signet introduction; Green still played as a source of mana ramp despite signet addition
Reasoning, Test Results and Player experiences:
The introduction of signets was prompted by my desire to develop the Artifact.dec in my Cube. On developing it, I talked to hardb0dy, who said that the signets would be a good addition. I slotted them in, and the effects they had on my Cube were dramatic. The artifact deck is fantastic when it comes together; I've already killed people multiple times with an army of 5/5 mana rock robots. The mana rocks also helped greatly with the Wildfire and Upheaval decks, which were suffering because people valued mana rocks so highly to the point that those decks would not always have access to them. I was initially worried that the change would hurt aggro decks, but as it turns out, they mostly don't care. The win rate of aggro decks before and after the signet introduction have remained mostly the same, which is to say, still very high. The Green ramp identity being diminished theory also turned out to be a non-factor; people still draft mono-green or G/x decks when they want to cast a 8 or 10 mana fatty; I don't expect this to change. Player feedback to the signets have also been very positive; players have been saying they "feel good" to cast and play with them.
The only downside that has occurred from this change is my loss of 10 colored slots for the mana rocks; also, not all signets are created equal; the Blue ones are clearly the most popular; despite this, the diversity of decks that have emerged as a result of this change is highly welcome. I expect the signets will be staying in my Cube for a long while.
Talismans & Signets
Which ones are you running? Are you currently running guild mana rocks (talismans/signets)?
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Everflowing Chalice (FNM Foil)
Fellwar Stone (The Dark)
Grim Monolith (Foil)
Mind Stone (DCI Foil)
And all Talismans, and most Signets (7/10 I think).
I'll probably add Coldsteel Heart and remove a signet or two more when we have Gatecrash and my guild-section needs to be changed again.
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I really like the idol, having another manland like ability is strong when combined with ramping.
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I like and run Mind Stone, Guardian Idol, Everflowing Chalice, Coldsteel Heart and Prismatic Lens. The next best thing (ignoring Signets and Talismans) are Fellwar Stone and Sphere of the Suns, and I think it is really a toss-up between the two. I like neither enough, so I went to 3cmc Mana Rocks instead: Coalition Relic is obviously a staple, Worn Powerstone as a fixed Sol Ring is still very good. Pristine Talisman gains you a lot of life during a game, I can really recommend that one. Finally, Chromatic Lantern is mana fixing on steroids.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Im down to 2 signets myself. I would like to cut those also, leave the color fixing to mostly green while still providing some ramp for other decks.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Not at all the same. Gemstone Mine is good because it fixes your early mana for aggressive decks. It's a totally different function than the same effect strapped to an ETBT mana rock.
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This is entirely up to you. In the end classification is a tool to find your cards and achieve good balance. If it stands in the way of what you want to do designwise, then change it.
We have a semi unbalanced fixing section, a colourless section and a multicoloured section.
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1 Guardian Idol
1 Sphere of the Suns
1 Mind Stone
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Grim Monolith
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BWTeysa, Orzahov ScionWB
BGIname as OneGB
USakashima, the ImpostorU
WMageta, the LionW
GBThelon of HavenwoodBG
All listed decks are physical EDH decks. I mostly only play EDH. Deck lists with my requests for suggestions will be forthcoming.
Also I have a cube on Cube Tutor! Comments on that would be greatly appreciated. Additionally if you intend to draft it you have to use 5 packs of 9 cards with 3 bots.
I run one of the largest 2-drop contingents of mana rocks at 720. I run:
5 Diamonds
5 Talismans
10 Signets
Mind Stone
Grim Monolith
I'm considering Fellwar Stone and Guardian Idol as well. The diamonds will likely be cut for moxen at whatever point I actually can manage that.
The important thing here is ensuring that there is a critical mass of mana rocks. My experience isn't that they warp the meta. Decks like the artifact deck and ramp will grab every one that they can, and they want as many as 10+ for just a single deck in order to ensure that they can get the explosive ramp starts that they need to compete with decks like fast aggro. I don't subscribe to the concept that the stones and fixing should be limited. They are in high demand as is, why constrain them beyond the point where the decks that need them could get them?
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I would cut the 5 Diamonds and add in:
and one more mana rock of your choosing. Either Fellwar Stone or Sphere of the Suns or something.
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****. I definitely run coldsteel. I apparently have an error in my cube list
Do you really like Prismatic Lens? I have looked at it a number of times and decided against it each time.
Chalice is something that was initially excluded for reasons peculiar to my list's philosophy, but I'm thinking to add it in the near future.
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I like it more than Moss Diamond.
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Action: Added all 10 signets to my Cube, cutting 2 cards from each color section for the slots.
Desired results: To aid the emerging artifact archetype; reinforce Wildfire and Upheaval decks; more fixing for multi-color archetypes
Expected drawbacks: Diminished aggro presence and reduction in Green's role as a source of mana ramp
Actual outcome: The new artifact deck is very powerful and consistent; Wildfire and Upheaval decks more viable than before; easier to splash for cards in multi-color decks; aggro decks have not been diminished by the signet introduction; Green still played as a source of mana ramp despite signet addition
Reasoning, Test Results and Player experiences:
The introduction of signets was prompted by my desire to develop the Artifact.dec in my Cube. On developing it, I talked to hardb0dy, who said that the signets would be a good addition. I slotted them in, and the effects they had on my Cube were dramatic. The artifact deck is fantastic when it comes together; I've already killed people multiple times with an army of 5/5 mana rock robots. The mana rocks also helped greatly with the Wildfire and Upheaval decks, which were suffering because people valued mana rocks so highly to the point that those decks would not always have access to them. I was initially worried that the change would hurt aggro decks, but as it turns out, they mostly don't care. The win rate of aggro decks before and after the signet introduction have remained mostly the same, which is to say, still very high. The Green ramp identity being diminished theory also turned out to be a non-factor; people still draft mono-green or G/x decks when they want to cast a 8 or 10 mana fatty; I don't expect this to change. Player feedback to the signets have also been very positive; players have been saying they "feel good" to cast and play with them.
The only downside that has occurred from this change is my loss of 10 colored slots for the mana rocks; also, not all signets are created equal; the Blue ones are clearly the most popular; despite this, the diversity of decks that have emerged as a result of this change is highly welcome. I expect the signets will be staying in my Cube for a long while.
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