MTG Salvation

I just randomly counted by humans and actually I counted about 50 in my 500 cube, which are 10%. Even better, most of the humans are either white or red two drops. I think I will give the Champion a run in the next update since it may be 2/2 for more often than one would think.

ehh I dunno man. I don't think I'd pick him over any of the 1-drops that have or become 2+ power by themselves (isamaru, lions, vanguard, student of warfare, figure of destiny etc.), which makes him pretty bottom of the barrel in terms of aggressive 1-drops.

I believe we already had a thread on this where the math came back and said that this guy was no where close to worth it in a cube of virtually any size.

I don't know... what's the math behind this? How many humans do I need in my deck that are either 1 or 2cc so I can use this guy as a 2-power 1-drop 75% of the time? How about just half the time?

I thought about him of my cube but the more I looked at white 2 drops. The more soltari, kors and kithkin I saw lol.

It's too bad I really like the art on him and some of the other innistrad wheenies that aren't currently in my cube.

It's actually insane. At least it has been in our cube. I was going to write about this guy in the "I can't believe I wasn't playing this card before thread". There are plenty of humans in white and red and he can get out of hand quickly. The other day my plays went like this:

T1: Champion
T2: Mom, Elite Vanguard
T3: Silverblade Paladin

And that's not that far from average. Even something like
T1: Champion
T2: Gore-House Chainwalker
T3: Mirran Crusader or Lightning Mauler/Pain with 1-drop
is good

He's a slightly more narrow 1-drop, but not many drafters at the table usually want him, and in the deck that does want him he is strong.

Highly recommended, I have been very impressed.

EDIT: Our cube runs more Humans than average, most cubes would need a minor tweak to their Human count to make him worthwhile.

Interesting one drop. I initially dismissed him for being too risky, but maybe the fact that he sometimes becomes a 3/3 or bigger offsets the times he remains a puny Mons Goblin Raiders.

Not sure though. A 1/1 for W is far from cubable...

Its not bad. You just need 1 other human to go with it for its to be great.

Quote from wtwlf123

I don't know... what's the math behind this? How many humans do I need in my deck that are either 1 or 2cc so I can use this guy as a 2-power 1-drop 75% of the time? How about just half the time?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=428005

We literally just had this discussion like five months ago. -.-

Ya, I had forgotten about that. If you cast this guy on T1, you need 6+ other 1-2cc humans in your deck to be able to cast one on T2 and swing for 2 with the Champion 66+% of the time. I remember eidolon providing that math for me and deciding that he's not worth it.

I think I'd rather run Akrasan Squire, but it is certainly interesting.

I dunno. Akrasan Squire was downright horrible every time it was cast. MagicFever raised a good point by highlighting that the decks that want this guy are already going to be playing humans. I'll at least keep him on my radar as new relevant cards are printed.

Yeah but he's hardly a powerful build-around me card, like some cards I could mention. You're not going to pick this guy early, and be like "Now I have to draft all the humans to have a sick deck!". Getting a good curve for your aggro cube deck is hard enough already without also having to consider creature types as well.

Quote from MagicFever »

And thats where I disagree. As I already mentioned, the decks that want this card automatically include cards that make the Champion good. If you only trigger him once he already did his job as he is a 2/2 for one. You just play your normal aggro deck and can include this guy without having to build around him.

Maybe, but maybe not. If your aggro suite includes a small number of humans (which it very well could if you didn't draft the Champion early) then you can't simply throw it into any aggro deck. It has to be an aggro deck with a lot of other humans in it.

Quote from Juju »

Getting a good curve for your aggro cube deck is hard enough already without also having to consider creature types as well.

Exactly this.

Quote from MagicFever

And thats where I disagree. As I already mentioned, the decks that want this card automatically include cards that make the Champion good. If you only trigger him once he already did his job as he is a 2/2 for one. You just play your normal aggro deck and can include this guy without having to build around him.

I wouldn't go that far. In order to have him be a 2/2 on turn 2 half of the time you are going to need like 5 1-2 cost humans, have them be the correct play on turn two (so basically they all need to be two drops) and you need to have the mana to play them immediately (so things like Kargan Dragonlord require an exquisite manabase). And this isn't including the times you draw a turn one accelerator (like a mox) or times when you want/need to play a different one drop first.

I am not saying this is impossible to work around, but the idea that this guy slots into a normal aggro deck and plays like any other one drop seems like a stretch to me.

You are probably right. I just wanted to explain (overstate) that it is not a "build around me card". I also think that he can make drafting more interesting. At least for us its not aggro deck --> autopicking any two drop.

Do you think picking the human 2-drop over the best 2-drop for the aggro deck will make the deck better? The increase in quality between the Akrasan Squire and this card has to be greater than the difference between the "right" 2-drop and the human 2-drop to make it worth inclusion. I know that sometimes they'll be the same, but there's also times where you won't have enough humans to make him worthwhile. They both have to offset in the average aggro deck, IMO ...and I'm just not sure that they do.

Every time a new human gets added to the cube, this guy's stock goes up. I am very close to adding him, but I need just one more 1W to enter the mix.

I understand the apprehension to not wanting this to be a 1/1, but I'm beginning to think that's less and less likely given how often I've seen Mayor's anthem ability put in serious work. And that's just his accidental value.

You know what? Forget it, I'm adding this guy in my next update

You see, this is exactly the type of one drop I wish we'd get more of. I realize everyone wants plain old generic 2 power one drops, but this card is just a lot more flavorful and interesting (and he happens to be in the new 360 cube I just built). What I like about these types of agro cards is it requires more planning to maximize. Any clown can drop a 2 power one drop and get value. But this guy actually requires you to plan a little bit instead of just gold fishing your way to a turn 4 kill.

I really think some of you are undervaluing him. I run 35 white creatures, of which 15 are human. That's 40% (and that percentage is actually higher if I look at low cost creatures - it's probably closer to 45%).

This guy if he lives a couple turns could end up a 3/3 or even a 4/4 if left unchecked. That's great value for a one drop. Sure, there will be games when he dies a lowly 1/1, but so what? That's just looking at the raw numbers and not considering other cards that potentially make him exponentially better than a generic 2 power one drop if he grows. I'd rather give up a couple points of damage early if it means he's suddenly a 4/4 double striker on turn 4 after I just paired him with silverblade (who also happens to be a human BTW). Just saying.

I have been looking into this guy for my 720. Right now my human breakdown in white looks like this:

5/9 of 1-drops
7/20 of 2-drops
7/9 of 3-drops

There is a lot of talk about how many humans you need in your deck to make this playable, but how many humans do you need in white (or your Cube as a whole)?

I was so happy to cut this card from my cube. I was talked into it by the supporters, and it turned out to be complete garbage.

We've been testing him and he's been great. In the decks that run him, he's consistently 2/2 and often even bigger.

We probably do run more humans than the average cube, so make sure you check your numbers before including him.

I wonder why the results have been so different for people??

In large Cubes like mine, thee is a definite need for more 1-drops in aggressive color combinations. This guy seems pretty good for Boros, but I guess I will have to try him out for myself to see how he plays out.

Quote from Patrunkenphat7

I wonder why the results have been so different for people??

Easy, different % of humans in the cube. Maybe some bias for/against the card as well, but it should mostly be how well your cube supports humans.

It's the percentage of humans that make the draft. Occasionally, a RW deck would come together with enough good human 2-drops so that he could function as a 2-power 1-drop, but even that was rare. He was pretty much unplayable in any other color combination. And, he was really bad in 4-person drafts, unless you got really lucky with what 1/2cc creatures made the pool. Most of the time, there weren't enough humans to make him consistent. And forget Sealed/Winston. He's a dead card in small player formats.

A quick glance at Fredos 450 list (up to date?) shows white to have 3 humans at W, 7 at 1W, and 4 at 1WW or 2W.

I'm wondering how many humans at 1-2-3 are necessary to make this card playable?