SoR is the yin to HoA's yang. Or vice-versa. These are subtle but powerful, "symmetrical" effects for only 2 each. Are there cube decks that would appreciate these?
I can see Sphere of Resistance being ok if you support Land Destruction and Pox to the max.
Helm of Awakening I don't really feel being good in cube. It shines with comboish artifact builds and with buyback, both are rare in most cubes. Maybe if you get enough possible combo's in (infinite mana somehow?).
Both interesting, but I don't think they are good enough.
The effect strapped to a creature is good ...Thalia, Lodestone, Arbiter, etc. but without pressure to add to the taxing, the effect isn't so good in the cube environment.
Taking cue from vintage, these cards are used in decks that can create a huge mana advantage. ie, mishra's workshop, that can play through them and still resolve threats. Even legacy doesn't run these types of cards due to the lack of cards that can create huge mana advantages (ie, lack of workshop), so with an even narrower card pool, I imagine Cube's won't be able to either. I suppose power and the like count. You'd need a pretty good artifact ramp section and be able to draft all those cards to really make these cards shine. I think it's somewhat narrow and would rather support other archetypes or play more fun cards.
Wtwlf is right I think about the ability strapped to a guy since the effect is no longer completely symmetrical since the guy can attack.
Edit:
i should note that this refers to sphere effects. Not sure about Helm cards, but eidolon's remarks are good.
I want to revitalise discussion around Sphere of Resistance after having had massive success in two drafts with it. The sequencing problems this card creates, especially with curves getting generally lower and double-spelling getting more and more important, has been backbreaking for the opponents deck. I feel this card got a lot better over the years, essentially being the very cheap alternative to cards like Armageddon and an extension of the package provided by Winter Orb, Tangle Wire, Lodestone Golem, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and maybe Elite Spellbinder and Anointed Peacekeeper. Blowing up all lands is unnecessary, when all you need is to make your opponents hand functionally useless.
After having had less and less success with Smokestack and Braids, Cabal Minion, I was on the lookout for something that would give a denial-deck more power, and Sphere definitely lived up to that! I'll be adding Thorn of Amethyst as well to see whether that effect is good enough without the 2/1 First Strike attached.
I've yet to copy Sphere with Mycosynth Gardens, but am definitely looking forward to the day it happens!
Taking cue from vintage, these cards are used in decks that can create a huge mana advantage. ie, mishra's workshop, that can play through them and still resolve threats. Even legacy doesn't run these types of cards due to the lack of cards that can create huge mana advantages (ie, lack of workshop), so with an even narrower card pool, I imagine Cube's won't be able to either.
As a stax aficionado in another life, this statement is still 100% true and why I have no interest in Sphere of Resistance. Sphere of Resistance worked in Vintage and not Legacy because Mishra's Workshop was able to overcome the symmetrical effect. Trinisphere worked in Legacy because other than Chalice of the Void / Mox Diamond, pretty much every spell in the Stax deck at the time already cost at least 3 mana. I think the only realistic reason I would ever consider it is if Storm was so dominant in my cube that I needed some generic answer to it that any deck can run.
Thorn of Amethyst / Thalia can at least be built around the drawback. Thalia / Lodestone Golem being threats themselves are huge. Smokestack / Tangle Wire impact your opponent more. Armageddon can be built up to and just win the game when it resolves. Sphere of Resistance having NONE of these benefits while being completely symmetrical doesn't make it an attractive option for me. I'd much rather take a more broad hate bears approach than hinder myself with Sphere of Resistance. There's a lot of disruptive / taxing effects now that aren't one-sided, particularly in white and black that I feel already accomplish this game plan without hindering yourself too.
WHITE
- Esper Sentinel
- Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
- Invasion of Gobakhan
- Elite Spellbinder
- Thalia, Heretic Cathar
- Anointed Peacekeeper
- Armageddon / Ravages of War
BLACK
- Concealing Curtains
- Deep-Cavern Bat
- Kitesail Freebooter
- Grief
OTHER
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Lodestone Golem
- Tidehollow Sculler
I think Thalia works because it’s a creature and applies pressure while slowing op down. If this was on a 2/1 it would be real strong, unsure how this would play out as is but it’s worth a try.
I think the reasons people are mentioning why it's unlikely to work make sense, but I've wanted to try it for a while, you've convinced me to give it a spin - thanks for pinging the thread!
Thorn of Amethyst / Thalia can at least be built around the drawback. Thalia / Lodestone Golem being threats themselves are huge. Smokestack / Tangle Wire impact your opponent more. Armageddon can be built up to and just win the game when it resolves. Sphere of Resistance having NONE of these benefits while being completely symmetrical doesn't make it an attractive option for me.
I'm not claiming that Sphere of Resistance is a 360 Powered Staple, but I do think your analysis is missing the point I was making.
The symmetry of a symmetric effect is broken in deckbuilding. This is easier for Thorn/Thalia/Lodestone, but applies equally for Sphere.
With curves getting lower and decks getting leaner, the number of spells cast/resolved goes up, making the tax of Sphere more impactful. If you manage to build a Deck with higher quality per card than your opponent, the tax will be less meaningful for you. On top of that, using activated abilities can break the symmetry further, see the new cycle of manlands.
In the same way as a state can be built for Armageddon, one can be built for Sphere. For a lot less mana even and quite a bit earlier. Armageddon was King when games were more reactive, but building up a sufficient advantage and having 4 mana spare for Armageddon has gotten harder and harder. Sphere delays less than Armageddon, but costs way less and manages to get you over the finish line just the same.
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SoR is the yin to HoA's yang. Or vice-versa. These are subtle but powerful, "symmetrical" effects for only 2 each. Are there cube decks that would appreciate these?
Helm of Awakening I don't really feel being good in cube. It shines with comboish artifact builds and with buyback, both are rare in most cubes. Maybe if you get enough possible combo's in (infinite mana somehow?).
Both interesting, but I don't think they are good enough.
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Wtwlf is right I think about the ability strapped to a guy since the effect is no longer completely symmetrical since the guy can attack.
Edit:
i should note that this refers to sphere effects. Not sure about Helm cards, but eidolon's remarks are good.
360 Uncommons only Cube!
After having had less and less success with Smokestack and Braids, Cabal Minion, I was on the lookout for something that would give a denial-deck more power, and Sphere definitely lived up to that! I'll be adding Thorn of Amethyst as well to see whether that effect is good enough without the 2/1 First Strike attached.
I've yet to copy Sphere with Mycosynth Gardens, but am definitely looking forward to the day it happens!
As a stax aficionado in another life, this statement is still 100% true and why I have no interest in Sphere of Resistance. Sphere of Resistance worked in Vintage and not Legacy because Mishra's Workshop was able to overcome the symmetrical effect. Trinisphere worked in Legacy because other than Chalice of the Void / Mox Diamond, pretty much every spell in the Stax deck at the time already cost at least 3 mana. I think the only realistic reason I would ever consider it is if Storm was so dominant in my cube that I needed some generic answer to it that any deck can run.
Thorn of Amethyst / Thalia can at least be built around the drawback. Thalia / Lodestone Golem being threats themselves are huge. Smokestack / Tangle Wire impact your opponent more. Armageddon can be built up to and just win the game when it resolves. Sphere of Resistance having NONE of these benefits while being completely symmetrical doesn't make it an attractive option for me. I'd much rather take a more broad hate bears approach than hinder myself with Sphere of Resistance. There's a lot of disruptive / taxing effects now that aren't one-sided, particularly in white and black that I feel already accomplish this game plan without hindering yourself too.
WHITE
- Esper Sentinel
- Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
- Invasion of Gobakhan
- Elite Spellbinder
- Thalia, Heretic Cathar
- Anointed Peacekeeper
- Armageddon / Ravages of War
BLACK
- Concealing Curtains
- Deep-Cavern Bat
- Kitesail Freebooter
- Grief
OTHER
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Lodestone Golem
- Tidehollow Sculler
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
I'm not claiming that Sphere of Resistance is a 360 Powered Staple, but I do think your analysis is missing the point I was making.
The symmetry of a symmetric effect is broken in deckbuilding. This is easier for Thorn/Thalia/Lodestone, but applies equally for Sphere.
With curves getting lower and decks getting leaner, the number of spells cast/resolved goes up, making the tax of Sphere more impactful. If you manage to build a Deck with higher quality per card than your opponent, the tax will be less meaningful for you. On top of that, using activated abilities can break the symmetry further, see the new cycle of manlands.
In the same way as a state can be built for Armageddon, one can be built for Sphere. For a lot less mana even and quite a bit earlier. Armageddon was King when games were more reactive, but building up a sufficient advantage and having 4 mana spare for Armageddon has gotten harder and harder. Sphere delays less than Armageddon, but costs way less and manages to get you over the finish line just the same.