Uncounterable cycle of RTR

[Xx414pato7xx456]

Anything think this cycle was a mistake? By that I mean these cards:

Supreme Verdict
Slaughter Games
Loxodon Smiter
Abrupt Decay
Counterflux

I think they are, at least in Standard. Imagine a UW tempo deck or a Bant control deck, against UW with Supreme Verdict you are pretty much screwed because you can´t do anything about it (except playing around it, which slows you down a ton) and same with Slaughter Games, you have zero control over it.

[colesy4971]

Apart from possibly abrupt decay, none of them are mistakes and are printed the way they are simply to keep the meta in check. Verdict stops annoying tempo decks like Delver from dominating, slaughter games is another card wizards print in case any card they print in this standard is too overpowered, i.e. every strong card in standard will have an answer to it thanks to slaughter games, and it can't just be countered. Smiter helps GWx decks versus counterspells.dec, abrupt decay ... hasn't had as much of an impact on standard as it does in older formats, and counterflux breaks counter wars and deals with storm.

You're not screwed versus supreme verdict if you play the right cards either, you can either aggro the verdict deck so that they can't cast it or they're at such a low life total you can finish them off afterwards, or you just play resilient creatures that can survive wrath (or in the case of geralf's messenger, you have a resilient creature that can eat 1/5 of their life total after they wrath along with the 2 life loss when it re-enters) such as Thragtusk or cards like Restoration Angel you can flash in post-wrath.

[Mugaaz]

I honestly think the cycle was really well done. None of the cards are super strong outside of a specific need where they end up hurting strategies that are parasitic.

[Mastodon]

Originally Posted by Xx414pato7xx456

Anything think this cycle was a mistake? I think they are, at least in Standard.

"at least in standard..."

Wait. Stop right there. People are playing counterspells in standard? This is news to me.

(and don't say syncopate, that's not a real counterspell)


Okay, forreal though, abrupt decay has had a huge effect on legacy and modern. It hasn't broken those formats, but has certainly made B/G much more appealing.

[Lithl]

And again, outside Standard I'd personally much rather have Wrath of God for the no-regenerate clause than Supreme Verdict for the no-counter clause.

[Mastodon]

Originally Posted by Lithl

And again, outside Standard I'd personally much rather have Wrath of God for the no-regenerate clause than Supreme Verdict for the no-counter clause.

I'd have to disagree with you there. The uncounterable clause on supreme verdict makes it the best board wipe there is, imo. Back when UWR delver and RUG delver variants were running rampant in modern, supreme verdict was a great addition to control decks over damnation and wrath of god (of course, real control was and still is rarely played in modern, but that doesn't matter). Though I hardly see board wipes played at all in legacy, I'd say the same probably goes for legacy as well. Neither modern or legacy have many regenerating creatures being played right now.

[ManTyme]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

"at least in standard..."

Wait. Stop right there. People are playing counterspells in standard? This is news to me.

(and don't say syncopate, that's not a real counterspell)


Okay, forreal though, abrupt decay has had a huge effect on legacy and modern. It hasn't broken those formats, but has certainly made B/G much more appealing.

I play counter spells in type 2..

dissipate
essence scatter
syncopate as a 1 of

[LandBoySteve]

Personally, I think the cards were very well designed.

Then again, I think Ancestral Recall was well designed so you can't go by me.

Seriously, IMO, the cards are fine. You just have to learn to play around them.

[theflow]

What I don't get: WotC are always stressing how they want to promote interaction. So can't-be-regenerated-clauses were dismissed to improve regeneration, shroud was replaced by hexproof, split second was considered non-interactive and therefore set on the list not to be continued... but now they created spells that take even the last interaction that you can have with spells (counter...)? Seems weird. Well, they can be exiled from the stack, but this is very rare.

[NGW]

Cycle was just an example of Wizard further dumbing down the game, just glad they didn't continue it into Gatecrash.

[DarkKaosKnight]

The only one of these I really don't like is Slaughter Games. I know it's in every sideboard (or main) and it makes the game frustrating when they play it turn 4 and then again turn 5. Makes me long for the days that Mindbreak Trap was legal.

EDIT: To clarify, the other 4 are things that can be played around or dealt with. If you are playing a control deck and you encounter Slaughter Games, your win-cons are gone and it becomes an exercise in futility essentially to try and win.

[CrazyCatPerson123]

Decay was only broken in legacy because black/green got a bit of a boost in legacy in RTR.

[metamorph]

why are they a mistake? what's so important about counterspells?

[Mugaaz]

Originally Posted by NGW

Cycle was just an example of Wizard further dumbing down the game, just glad they didn't continue it into Gatecrash.

Printing narrow answer cards that are weak in a vacuum, but strong in specific metas, is dumbing down the game? Are you serious? Its the exact opposite of dumbing down the game. Printing narrow answers for you to get an edge on a known field is making the game deeper, not shallower. There's now an answer to counterbalance, how does this cheapen the game?

[A.J.Gibson]

Originally Posted by Mugaaz

Printing narrow answer cards that are weak in a vacuum, but strong in specific metas, is dumbing down the game? Are you serious? Its the exact opposite of dumbing down the game. Printing narrow answers for you to get an edge on a known field is making the game deeper, not shallower. There's now an answer to counterbalance, how does this cheapen the game?

Agreed. WotC is doing what they always do: trying to weaken certain decks that have gotten too strong (in their mind). No deck should ever 'feel safe' or be able to deal with *every* situation. Players of decks affected will do what other players have done before: find solutions. Worried about Slaughter Games? Make certain you have more than one win condition (if anything, this card is anti-combo card). Worried about Supreme Verdict? Players without counterspells have been dealing with Day of Judgment for years and survived. Loxodon Smiter? Play removal. Counterflux? Are blue players actually mad because someone can counter their spells and they can do nothing about it? Every other color has to deal with that too, and yet people play other colors.