ghost council #1 vs ghost coucil #2

[jmdt]

They really should have made new Ghost council differ more from the old one. The WB options just aren't that great yet and more variety would have been nice.

[DirkGently]

Originally Posted by Slivortal

Are you kidding? RW has Gisela, Jor, Aurelia, and even Brion. BW has the Ghost Councils and Teysa, and the Ghost Councils are extremely meh, especially now that damage has left the stack.

You forgot selenia.

all of RW's legends cost 5+ except one, and they're all really (imo) boring, mostly built around attacking a lot. BW has synergistic, cheap generals that work well with the mechanics BW does already (tokens, reanimation), just how I like 'em.

[Rizkar]

I think it comes down to what you want to do with it. With the old one, you were building around the sacrifice mechanic. While with ghost council 2.0, you get a black/white general that doesn't revolve around sacrificing little guys, is still a threat (if not more threatening), and keeps the feel of original card (blinking and extorting).

Overall, an awesome card and an awesome general. I would build it if I were looking to build a black/white deck that isn't just about saccing creatures for value.

P.S. : Oh, and this one actually makes you want to attack with him, instead of just sitting in the background with a couple mana open.

[simulacrum]

old school council has crazy tricks with sac outlets and have twice as many come into effects then new council.

also, old school can actually protect itself from death, while new council can still die to instant speed spells

[Gareth_Trent]

I really want to like the new council. But finding it a little hard. But like others have said at least he's not about sacrificing.
Could he work in 1v1 deck?

[xlich]

I like this new GCO. It's similar but plays really different. With the old GCO decks, you don't need to play as much exile effects or flickers, while favoring either token generation or saccing key creatures that likes to die. Don't like that plan all that much, takes too long. This new GCO is more flickering and bouncing based. Creature light decks, using that angel whose names I forget, flickerform, etc to gain that life over and over. Will it work well? Dunno, need the rest of the set to see what are my new toys gonna be.

Liking the idea so far, since it's a bit more aggressive. Legends that are just toolbox doesn't cut it for me, and this one depends on its own body to do work.

[DirkGently]

I feel like anyone who likes the new GCO more than the old GCO never really understood the strengths of GCO to begin with. It was never really about the life drain or the 4/4 body. new GCO got better at the parts that never mattered and lost what was good.

Originally Posted by Wildfire393

I like Ozbedat a lot more than the first one for a few reasons:

1) It's the first WB legend who doesn't completely blow (*cough* Selenia *cough*) and doesn't involve creature sacrifice. This means it can be played in a deck that doesn't spam out sac fodder.
2) Stealing one life is more or less irrelevant. Stealing two life starts to get to the point of relevance
3) He's guaranteed to be missed by all sorcery speed removal ever. A lot of decks depend on Wrath effects to let them survive creatures.
4) 5 power is a lot better than 4 power for a general. 4 power requires +3 to get into 3-swing range, and requires 6 swings unbuffed. 5 power only requires +2 to get into 3-swing range (which is what any of the Sword of X and Y provide), and kills in 5 unbuffed.

1 - creature sacrifice, graveyard triggers, etc is something BW is good at. That's why its generals synergize with that. New one really doesn't have synergy with much of anything.
2 - stealing life was never the good part about GCO. If you were using him for the life drain you were doing it wrong. Plus old one could do it on multiple turns, so he could definitely drain more life than new one if desired.
3 - those decks are bad. And he dies to (almost) any instant-speed removal, which GCO was much harder to kill with. Wipes were almost always irrelevant against GCO (besides killing his minions) and he's also protected from YOUR OWN WIPES. new GCO will always be killed by your own wipes, barring another card protecting him. Plus if you want him protected, you definitely can't block with him. New GCO is WAAAAAY more killable than the OG. don't kid yourself.
4 - Sure, but both of them are crappy voltron generals so it's sort of irrelevant. They don't have evasion and, at least for the new guy, they don't have much protection either. If you want a voltron general there's way better options in other colors.

[kraus911]

Yeah, I was trying to come up with a deck idea that would fit the new one better than the old one. I started working on lifegain.dec with a win off Felidar Sovereign or combo win off Exquisite Blood and Sanguine Bond, a bit of Soul Warden action.

The one benefit of the new one is you don't have to include any sac effects for the general to work. The problem is, that's one of the best features of the old one. And as mentioned, his ability gives you instant protection against removal of most kinds. As I looked at my decklist I realized it'd still be better with the original.

[Rogue Trader]

I was pretty excited about the new Ghost Council, but this guy was such a disappointment. I doubted it would be good enough to replace the old GCO, but I didn't think it would be underpowered to the point where it is unlikely to even make the cut as one of the 99.

The loss of any kind of control over his flicker ability in exchange for an additional point of life drain just sucks. The only way you are killing someone with that ability is with an infinite combo, and which point the difference between two and one becomes zero.

The additional point of power is almost completely irrelevant, the Ghost Council should not be relying on beats to win (not very flavourful either), you will find that it will almost certainly be outclassed, especially by turn five.

It now dies to it's own wraths, and instant speed removal. Not great.

No longer a sacrifice outlet, which was one of the best things about the original GCO.

On the plus side, the art is cool, he will be a bomb in limited, and might find a place in standard, in which case I can trade him for some useful EDH cards.

[ilovesaprolings]

new one is boring. he interacts poorly with you other cards

[DeadManSeven]

Initially I was very disappointed at Obzedat for being too similar to Ghost Dad, but it hit me that while on the surface they look like they are doing nearly identical things, the two legends are in fact very very different.

Ghost Dad is an efficient creature. No evasion when it comes to combat, but almost unkillable given the right support. He prevents your creatures from being stolen, hits hard for his cost, connects with EDH mainstays like Grave Pact and Academy Rector and Blood Artist. He's flexible. He's an all-rounder, something you can take in different directions, not locked into a playstyle like Teysa, or overcosted like those other two durdles, but the price of being a jack-of-all-trades is mastery of none.

Obzedat is the stax finisher from hell. This new Ghost Council dodges sorcery-speed removal, yes, but it also avoids being hit by all the recurring triggers that stax does all its damage with. All the symmetrical resource denial effects are neatly dodged by staying out of the game until you get to put upkeep triggers on the stack, so Obzedat keeps coming back every turn free from Smokestack and The Abyss and Call to the Grave and Meekstone, gaining you back all the life you paid to put and keep your lock pieces into place and grinding the table down while they're unable to do anything about it. You're not getting the same broad range of abilities as Ghost Dad, but instead something much more specialised.

[minsarker]

Originally Posted by NGW

I like the art on the new one more. The new one is also much more powerful in Standard, but that's not a real format so meh. But being able to flicker the original Ghost Council at will seems a bit more useful in EDH and other formats IMO.

Standard is a real format...?

And to the OP, I like the new one just because it hits harder. I was never a fan of the older one but personally, I dont like either one to be honest :/

[Slivortal]

Originally Posted by DirkGently

You forgot selenia.

all of RW's legends cost 5+ except one, and they're all really (imo) boring, mostly built around attacking a lot. BW has synergistic, cheap generals that work well with the mechanics BW does already (tokens, reanimation), just how I like 'em.

In the same way I "forgot" Agrus Kos and Razia. None of them are worth mentioning. Teysa costs only 3, but I find her abilities kind of boring and mostly revolving around tokens. Although I will admit that she is very good if built correctly.

GCO may be only 4 mana, but usually you want to play him with 1 open and even then, the deck's not backbreaking. They can be decent if built properly, but that's about the limit. You're basically playing an evasive (relatively) small body that can double as a sac outlet if needs be.

New GCO is a 5/5 attacker that drains someone for two a turn. Apart from having an altogether unimpressive body, the drain is almost completely irrelevant and he might as well have "this creature is a vanilla 5/5 if you ever want to block". He's wavering on the side of bad, and has a very similar feel.

Jor Kadeen is actually very playable in an artifact ramp into MLD shell, which not many generals allow. Additionally, he's one of the best commanders for artifact-based strategies that actually want to play colored spells. When he's built properly, he can be very good.

While you also often need artifact ramp to cast Gisela in a timely manner, she plays very differently than Jor. She's perhaps the only general that makes burn relevant in the format, and becomes a two-turn clock with any sort of Anthem effect. She can also be very good if built properly.

Aurelia, while admittedly very much revolving around the combat phase, is perhaps the best EDH general for it, going crazy with attack triggers like Sun Titan, and while not original, Battalion triggers. I could see her heading a very interesting (and good) deck.

Finally we have Brion. While perhaps not as competitive as the other three, his ability can easily become a sort of Grave Pact if you have creatures big enough. Also, if you want a life gain-based deck, he's perhaps your best guy.

In conclusion, I actually see the RW commanders as much more varied than the BW commanders, who only really benefit from Teysa. I really wanted to see something playable and interesting here, and Aurelia does that much more than Obzedat can ever hope to (at least in EDH).

[DirkGently]

Originally Posted by Slivortal

In the same way I "forgot" Agrus Kos and Razia. None of them are worth mentioning. Teysa costs only 3, but I find her abilities kind of boring and mostly revolving around tokens. Although I will admit that she is very good if built correctly.

GCO may be only 4 mana, but usually you want to play him with 1 open and even then, the deck's not backbreaking. They can be decent if built properly, but that's about the limit. You're basically playing an evasive (relatively) small body that can double as a sac outlet if needs be.

New GCO is a 5/5 attacker that drains someone for two a turn. Apart from having an altogether unimpressive body, the drain is almost completely irrelevant and he might as well have "this creature is a vanilla 5/5 if you ever want to block". He's wavering on the side of bad, and has a very similar feel.

Jor Kadeen is actually very playable in an artifact ramp into MLD shell, which not many generals allow. Additionally, he's one of the best commanders for artifact-based strategies that actually want to play colored spells. When he's built properly, he can be very good.

While you also often need artifact ramp to cast Gisela in a timely manner, she plays very differently than Jor. She's perhaps the only general that makes burn relevant in the format, and becomes a two-turn clock with any sort of Anthem effect. She can also be very good if built properly.

Aurelia, while admittedly very much revolving around the combat phase, is perhaps the best EDH general for it, going crazy with attack triggers like Sun Titan, and while not original, Battalion triggers. I could see her heading a very interesting (and good) deck.

Finally we have Brion. While perhaps not as competitive as the other three, his ability can easily become a sort of Grave Pact if you have creatures big enough. Also, if you want a life gain-based deck, he's perhaps your best guy.

In conclusion, I actually see the RW commanders as much more varied than the BW commanders, who only really benefit from Teysa. I really wanted to see something playable and interesting here, and Aurelia does that much more than Obzedat can ever hope to (at least in EDH).

There's some subtleties in how the RW commanders are built - jor needs artifacts and lots of tokens or whatever, gisela needs more ramp, etc - but they all basically revolve around combat and dealing damage. Bleh. Boring.

I guess the same is true for WB legends and sac, but I actually like WB strategies whereas RW ones don't interest me.

The other annoyance with the RW legends - and the one that can't be explained by flavor - is that they all cost a ton. R and W are both weenie colors yet all their legends are expensive as hell. BW wins massively on that score.