For example, suppose people wanted to know if Dragon's Maze is mappable, or if changes to packing procedures have made it no longer work. The only way to find out is to actually try do make the map and see if it works.
They can go somewhere else to map it if they way. That's no reason to allow a dishonest, unethical practice here.
The scam is misrepresenting your goods as random packs, which they're not.
Except they are. No one's buying the "I just box map so I can draft worthless packs with friends!" argument. It's ludicrous in the extreme.
I agree that this conversation is ridiculous but I'm simply using your logic. You are the same Galspanic that made this statement, no?
Another ridiculous argument.
The primary purpose of box mapping is to rip people off. No one believes anyone who claims otherwise.
The primary purpose of trading cards is to trade cards. It is an extreme outlier who scam people
Can you imagine the conversations under this policy?
A: Is DGM mapped?
B: Nope.
C: Yep, I've seen the map.
B: Prove it. I've looked, there's no map. It's not even possible anymore.
C: I would but I'm not allowed to.
B: You're just saying that because you're lying.
Banning the citation of sources is almost never smart policy.
We ban people who post ebay scams, or solicit for other sites. We ban people who link to guides on how to make proxies. They pulled the link to the NPH Godbook. This is no different
How am I even "misrepresenting goods" if I'm selling MtG boosters as MtG boosters? That seems like an accurate representation, not a misrepresentation. Another hypothetical detail: provided that the customer asks, I always answer questions about the boosters truthfully. Where is the scam?
Lying through omission is till lying. Defrauding people by misrepresenting what you are selling is fraud. Selling mapped packs as non mapped packs is fraud. How would you feel if you bought packs at full price and later found out they were mapped?
I am being honest. Additionally, I answer questions about their origin honestly. The value doesn't change, it's still a MtG booster pack.
No you are not being honest. You are not fooling anyone by saying "Hey, a pack is a pack, there's nothing wrong with selling a mapped pack as a non mapped pack!" It is misrepresentation, and fraud. Any reasonable person would agree with that. Look at the defenses of the practice, they are all absolutely unreasonable. And when people make flailing arguments like that, no one believes them. Yes, it is my opinion that every single person who maps boxes does so with the express intent of selling the mapped leftovers at full value to help recoup the value of the box. Multiple posters have come right and said they do that, there were people at my LGS last night opening thier GTC boxes and writing down the contents, when I confronted them over the practice, they tried the same tired defenses in this thread, which no one believed, and eventually they all copped to what they were actually going to do, which was dump the mapped packs on eBay.
It's a flat out disgusting practice, that's all there is to it. It was at least a little refreshing to read the few people who at least admitted they were mapping their boxes to rip people off, at least they were being honest about it. It's kinda sad how many people are so ashamed of their own bad behavior that they go through the lengths they did trying to defend themselves. I'll say it again, I strongly suggest you take a look at your ethical standards, because acting like that carries very real world consequences, and the dean of your school or your future boss isn't going to buy your lame excuses for unethical behavior any more than we did, and their actions can cause you a LOT more grief that not being able to talk about box mapping on MTGS
I applaud the mods for acknowledging the unethical nature of this practice and cleaning the stain of box mapping from MTGS. Thumbs up.
So now that we are banning something that is only unethical and not illegal in the slightest, how long before MWS and Cockatrice are banned? What about the "unsavory" math of intentional draws? Since traders can scam, i guess trading is banned?
The staff has all the right to say that X is ok and Y is not, but the ethics of this site have never been rosy. Drawing the line at breaking actual laws is fine, i can concede that about the other things we have banned and fixed recently related to proxies. I'm not going to pretend that something doesn't exist and force people to be in the dark about something so potentially damaging to their enjoyment of this game. Preaching Abstinence over teaching always messes the bed.
I'm not going to pretend that something doesn't exist and force people to be in the dark about something so potentially damaging to their enjoyment of this game. Preaching Abstinence over teaching always messes the bed.
And if you read this thread neither do I. You can talk about stuff and educate people about how things work without actually doing the things. In your "sex ed" scenario here we are okay with educating people on how to put on a condom without putting it on them in front of the class.
I'm of a divided mind on this matter. First and foremost, I do understand that the practice of box mapping in and of itself is not unethical. However, I take issue with the idea that MTGS would be a place where detailed information on box mapping could be made available to a wide variety of people, including those who would use it to take advantage of someone else.
Yes, knowledge sharing is fundamentally a good practice, but there are limits to when it is wise. I am not comfortable with unrestricted access to the methods of box mapping, just as I am not comfortable with widespread access on instructions for how to steal someone's identity, how to build a pipe bomb or how to convert a semi-automatic firearm to a fully-automatic firearm. And no, just because those are all available somewhere, that's not sufficient reason for them to be posted here.
The knowledge of how to do these things does not in and of itself represent a problem. But all of these examples can be used to cause harm, including knowing how to map a box. It seems that the defense of the practice of box mapping has been particularly weak, culminating in implausible corner-case scenarios and the blanket claim that "there's a legitimate purpose, we promise". Really, the strongest defense in favor of the discussion of box mapping is in the abstract: it's just something that people like to do, like solving a puzzle, and discussing how to do it doesn't necessarily mean that someone's going to scam someone else.
A really, really good analogy for box mapping is discussing the art of picking locks. I recently decided to take up lockpicking as a hobby. Locks are another kind of puzzle, and learning how they work and how to defeat them fascinates me. I bought a set of lockpicks online and am studying how to circumvent the exact same kind of lock that is on all of the homes in my neighborhood (they were all manufactured at the same time by the same builder). Does me knowing how to pick locks mean that I am going to use that information to break into my neighbors' homes? No, I can attest that there is absolutely no risk of that happening. Discussion of the art of lockpicking is not forbidden, but it's one of those topics that I'm sure a lot of people would be more comfortable if it were.
Ultimately it comes down to whether MTGS staff want this site to be the kind of place where discussion of potentially unethical practices takes place. Just as they limit discussion on proxies and scamming people, I believe the decision to limit discussion on box mapping is both sound and reasonable. There's just too much risk, both actual and reputation-based.
And if you read this thread neither do I. You can talk about stuff and educate people about how things work without actually doing the things.
Again, in this case you really can't. If you're trying to argue that the map for XYZ exists, the map itself is the proof of your argument. If you're trying to argue that XYZ is not mappable, the attempt to do so is the proof of your argument.
So sure, you can talk about it. You just can't have a productive discussion.
Again, in this case you really can't. If you're trying to argue that the map for XYZ exists, the map itself is the proof of your argument. If you're trying to argue that XYZ is not mappable, the attempt to do so is the proof of your argument.
So sure, you can talk about it. You just can't have a productive discussion.
With all due respect, that argument doesn't hold water. If all we're talking about doing is educating people about the existence of box mapping and how to avoid being taken advantage of, those people don't benefit from an in-depth understanding of how box mapping works, nor do they need to see the actual map showing them which packs have the best cards.
All that would be required would be a general cautionary statement advising that a more-or-less reliable means has been made available that allows unscrupulous people to cherry-pick boxes and sell the remainder off as "pure" product, and that if anyone chooses to buy booster packs, the best way to do so is in person at a reputable LGS and/or from a freshly-opened box. That'd be the end of it, really.
With all due respect, that argument doesn't hold water. If all we're talking about doing is educating people about the existence of box mapping and how to avoid being taken advantage of, those people don't benefit from an in-depth understanding of how box mapping works, nor do they need to see the actual map showing them which packs have the best cards.
How exactly will these people get educated if some people claim that the set is mapped, some people claim that it isn't/can't be, and neither side is allowed to cite sources/present evidence? How will people know who to believe?
Box mapping thread has 11,000 views and was made on the 25th, Rumor mill rules and regulations has been read 13,000 times since August 2009.
Also this thread only has 3,000 views. So even if no one knew of the box mapping thread and came here, and then went over there, the box mapping thread has 1000 views a day compared to the sticky with bold red text having 10.4 (rounded up) views per day.
Box mapping thread has 11,000 views and was made on the 25th, Rumor mill rules and regulations has been read 13,000 times since August 2009.
Also this thread only has 3,000 views. So even if no one knew of the box mapping thread and came here, and then went over there, the box mapping thread has 1000 views a day compared to the sticky with bold red text having 10.4 (rounded up) views per day.
I don't know if I should be proud or facepalm at being the initial author of the thread.
While I may not know a lot about this box mapping thing (I usually buy fat packs and/or if I do purchase a box or two, I crack them all anyway), but there is one absolute thing that, in this thread, that has disturbed me a bit.
That is Valarin. Yes, the person that initially started this thread.
The reason why this buggered me was because of the last post with the following comments:
The primary purpose of box mapping is to rip people off. No one believes anyone who claims otherwise.
So you mean to tell me that you've talked to EVERYONE who has mapped a box and they've ALL stated that they've done it to rip people off? Oh wait, by your own logic, since they mapped a box, they are clearly lying even though you have no viable proof of evidence that they are doing so.
Assuming that someone is doing something with a clear intent in your mind does not make it true.
We ban people who post ebay scams, or solicit for other sites. We ban people who link to guides on how to make proxies. They pulled the link to the NPH Godbook. This is no different
Actually, they usually just get suspended for the ebay links and site solicitations, but by your comment alone your saying that all ebay links are scams and all site solications are the same. Proxies are an ILLEGAL act. The Godbook was leaked and against WotC policy. Again, you are using illegal acts to justify ethical practices, and then trying to back it up with statements that WotC has clearly stated ARE illegal.
No you are not being honest. You are not fooling anyone by saying "Hey, a pack is a pack, there's nothing wrong with selling a mapped pack as a non mapped pack!" It is misrepresentation, and fraud. Any reasonable person would agree with that. Look at the defenses of the practice, they are all absolutely unreasonable. And when people make flailing arguments like that, no one believes them. Yes, it is my opinion that every single person who maps boxes does so with the express intent of selling the mapped leftovers at full value to help recoup the value of the box. Multiple posters have come right and said they do that, there were people at my LGS last night opening thier GTC boxes and writing down the contents, when I confronted them over the practice, they tried the same tired defenses in this thread, which no one believed, and eventually they all copped to what they were actually going to do, which was dump the mapped packs on eBay.
It's a flat out disgusting practice, that's all there is to it. It was at least a little refreshing to read the few people who at least admitted they were mapping their boxes to rip people off, at least they were being honest about it. It's kinda sad how many people are so ashamed of their own bad behavior that they go through the lengths they did trying to defend themselves. I'll say it again, I strongly suggest you take a look at your ethical standards, because acting like that carries very real world consequences, and the dean of your school or your future boss isn't going to buy your lame excuses for unethical behavior any more than we did, and their actions can cause you a LOT more grief that not being able to talk about box mapping on MTGS
Actually, even if I did map a box for some odd reason, it would be to find what the overall value of the box was vs. what I paid for it. The rest of it, as I stated, would most likely be opened by me anyway just to see what else is in it. Are you going to say that I'm unethical for such?
Don't assume that people do things for reason you automatically think is going to be for ripping someone off.
I wish you could tag people here like you can on Reddit so I could know to never trade with anyone who defended boxmapping in this thread. If you can see nothing wrong with that, I shudder to think what other things you could do to rip people off.
Of course there are legitimate reasons like Ganneyev posted, but why can't you just go to the store, tell them that box mapping exists, and have them shuffle the packs. Why do you need a complete Box Map on this site to accomplish this?
Also, the part about MWS and Cockatrice... Those are their own things. If Wizards has an issue with them they can pursue that. We are the entity doing "the thing" in this case.
Of course there are legitimate reasons like Ganneyev posted, but why can't you just go to the store, tell them that box mapping exists, and have them shuffle the packs. Why do you need a complete Box Map on this site to accomplish this?
Because you shouldn't believe everything you hear/read. The map is the proof of the claim.
Because you shouldn't believe everything you hear/read. The map is the proof of the claim.
If your store cares why do you need to have an actual box map? I know that a couple of them here shuffle them up automatically because they know that it is possible to cheat the randomness of pulling packs. Again, knowing that it exists is helpful but having a map is not.
If your store cares why do you need to have an actual box map? I know that a couple of them here shuffle them up automatically because they know that it is possible to cheat the randomness of pulling packs. Again, knowing that it exists is helpful but having a map is not.
Because the map is proof that you're not making it up. You don't know that the map actually exists without the actual map to verify the claim.
If you know that it ~could~ exist why wouldn't you shuffle the box? They proved to be real before and Wizards has done nothing to fix it.
Because it's an inconvenience and they don't want to do it unless it's really necessary. It's not unreasonable for them to ask for actual evidence. "It was true before" doesn't mean that it is true now. With each new set we have the possibility that Wizards has fixed it; the only way to find out is to actually make the map.
This thread is nothing more than a which hunt with evangelistic zeal that has produced no tangible victims. The absence of intelligent, rational, discourse is disturbing.
No, you're not buying the "I just box map so I can draft packs with friends!" argument.
Cause it makes ZERO sense at all. It's not an argument, it's a lame attempt at a defense of bad behavior. Pulling the money rares out of a box has NOTHING to do with drafting at all.
How do you feel about market street?
Fine. Cause Market Street does not exist to rip people off. Box mapping does. Intent matters.
What omission?
"I took all the valuable cards out of this box so you have no chance of getting them, but I won't tell you" I did that and make you believe you still have a shot at opening money rares"
Selling mapped packs without telling people they are mapped is fraud. If people didn't care about mapped packs, you would have no problem telling them they were mapped. You know if you tell people they are mapped no one will by them, so you keep that info to yourself and rip them off. And then you get incredulous when people cal you out for ripping others people off. Incredible. Absolutely incredible.
I swear to God, you people sound like my 6 year old trying to get out of taking his nighttime bath by arguing for water conservation. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourselves. If you want to keep ripping people off, do it somewhere else.
Having it on MTGS allows mappers like myself to utilise the large and generally very helpful community to create a complete map faster than any of us could individually unless we worked for a store that was actively cracking packs to sell singles and in doing so level the playing field between the stores and the individual.
The only reason you would map a box is to rip off other people. You can easily educate people about box mapping without participating in it. You don't need to map a set to tell people about box mapping. They whole "We need to do this to protect innocents!" argument is even more ludicrous than the "We just do it to draft bad packs with friends!" argument.
The absence of intelligent, rational, discourse is disturbing.
Correct, none of the defenses of box mapping have contained a shred of intelligent or rational discourse. They are immoral people scrambling at any shred of a corner case argument they can cling to in a desperate attempt to maintain their ability to be do immoral things. It's really sad. It's like listening to people argue against gay marriage because of "traditional values" or saying women can't serve in combat because they get periods or argue against rational drug laws because black men will obvious start raping white women once they get their hands on that devil weed. It's like the MTGS equivalent of Fox News. I really thought this place was better than that.
This thread is nothing more than a which hunt with evangelistic zeal that has produced no tangible victims. The absence of intelligent, rational, discourse is disturbing.
Everyone who's ever bought mapped packs which weren't disclosed as such is a tangible victim. The fact that it's impossible or really hard for these people to know they are victims does not make them not victims.
Are you just willfully ignorant of do you just not read what people have posted ?
You have all but called several people in this thread liars (also unethical:rolleyes: ), I actually strongly believe that your desire to have box mapping removed is because you want to profit from it yourself since you seem incapable of understanding that it's other uses are many.
Just stop. No one buys it. You can make up all the ridiculous defenses of the practice you want, no one believes it.
No one believes you are mapping a box because you like drafting bad packs with friends
No one believes you are mapping packs because you want to save people from getting scammed
No one believes trading cards has anything to do with selling mapped packs at full price and ripping people off
No one believes "a pack is a pack" so it's OK to not tell people your packs are from a mapped box and charge them full price.
Really, the more ridiculous your excuses become, the more guilty you make yourself look. Just stop. Take your bad behavior elsewhere.
you seem incapable of understanding that it's other uses are many.
Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration now, isn't it? The end result of mapping a box is that you wind up with a stack of unopened packs that you are reasonably certain contain nothing of value. There are really only three things you can do with those: open them yourself, give them to people for free, or sell/trade them to people not for free.
If you open them yourself, then mapping the box provided you with no value other than an interesting mental exercise. Otherwise, those packs are changing hands somehow.
Thus far, the only stated legitimate use for unopened packs of little value is to "draft with friends for free". I think that's perfectly reasonable, but you have to acknowledge that it is a corner-case scenario, and the likelihood of that happening is vastly outweighed by the likelihood of someone partaking in the numerous unethical uses for the same supply of value-less boosters.
I don't buy the "box mapping is evil" argument, but I do see it as a borderline activity that could very easily be used for unethical purposes. I would rather discussion about box mapping not take place on this site.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EVOLVE ALL THE THINGS!!!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
No it's not
They can go somewhere else to map it if they way. That's no reason to allow a dishonest, unethical practice here.
Except they are. No one's buying the "I just box map so I can draft worthless packs with friends!" argument. It's ludicrous in the extreme.
Another ridiculous argument.
The primary purpose of box mapping is to rip people off. No one believes anyone who claims otherwise.
The primary purpose of trading cards is to trade cards. It is an extreme outlier who scam people
We ban people who post ebay scams, or solicit for other sites. We ban people who link to guides on how to make proxies. They pulled the link to the NPH Godbook. This is no different
Lying through omission is till lying. Defrauding people by misrepresenting what you are selling is fraud. Selling mapped packs as non mapped packs is fraud. How would you feel if you bought packs at full price and later found out they were mapped?
No you are not being honest. You are not fooling anyone by saying "Hey, a pack is a pack, there's nothing wrong with selling a mapped pack as a non mapped pack!" It is misrepresentation, and fraud. Any reasonable person would agree with that. Look at the defenses of the practice, they are all absolutely unreasonable. And when people make flailing arguments like that, no one believes them. Yes, it is my opinion that every single person who maps boxes does so with the express intent of selling the mapped leftovers at full value to help recoup the value of the box. Multiple posters have come right and said they do that, there were people at my LGS last night opening thier GTC boxes and writing down the contents, when I confronted them over the practice, they tried the same tired defenses in this thread, which no one believed, and eventually they all copped to what they were actually going to do, which was dump the mapped packs on eBay.
It's a flat out disgusting practice, that's all there is to it. It was at least a little refreshing to read the few people who at least admitted they were mapping their boxes to rip people off, at least they were being honest about it. It's kinda sad how many people are so ashamed of their own bad behavior that they go through the lengths they did trying to defend themselves. I'll say it again, I strongly suggest you take a look at your ethical standards, because acting like that carries very real world consequences, and the dean of your school or your future boss isn't going to buy your lame excuses for unethical behavior any more than we did, and their actions can cause you a LOT more grief that not being able to talk about box mapping on MTGS
I applaud the mods for acknowledging the unethical nature of this practice and cleaning the stain of box mapping from MTGS. Thumbs up.
The staff has all the right to say that X is ok and Y is not, but the ethics of this site have never been rosy. Drawing the line at breaking actual laws is fine, i can concede that about the other things we have banned and fixed recently related to proxies. I'm not going to pretend that something doesn't exist and force people to be in the dark about something so potentially damaging to their enjoyment of this game. Preaching Abstinence over teaching always messes the bed.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
And if you read this thread neither do I. You can talk about stuff and educate people about how things work without actually doing the things. In your "sex ed" scenario here we are okay with educating people on how to put on a condom without putting it on them in front of the class.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Yes, knowledge sharing is fundamentally a good practice, but there are limits to when it is wise. I am not comfortable with unrestricted access to the methods of box mapping, just as I am not comfortable with widespread access on instructions for how to steal someone's identity, how to build a pipe bomb or how to convert a semi-automatic firearm to a fully-automatic firearm. And no, just because those are all available somewhere, that's not sufficient reason for them to be posted here.
The knowledge of how to do these things does not in and of itself represent a problem. But all of these examples can be used to cause harm, including knowing how to map a box. It seems that the defense of the practice of box mapping has been particularly weak, culminating in implausible corner-case scenarios and the blanket claim that "there's a legitimate purpose, we promise". Really, the strongest defense in favor of the discussion of box mapping is in the abstract: it's just something that people like to do, like solving a puzzle, and discussing how to do it doesn't necessarily mean that someone's going to scam someone else.
A really, really good analogy for box mapping is discussing the art of picking locks. I recently decided to take up lockpicking as a hobby. Locks are another kind of puzzle, and learning how they work and how to defeat them fascinates me. I bought a set of lockpicks online and am studying how to circumvent the exact same kind of lock that is on all of the homes in my neighborhood (they were all manufactured at the same time by the same builder). Does me knowing how to pick locks mean that I am going to use that information to break into my neighbors' homes? No, I can attest that there is absolutely no risk of that happening. Discussion of the art of lockpicking is not forbidden, but it's one of those topics that I'm sure a lot of people would be more comfortable if it were.
Ultimately it comes down to whether MTGS staff want this site to be the kind of place where discussion of potentially unethical practices takes place. Just as they limit discussion on proxies and scamming people, I believe the decision to limit discussion on box mapping is both sound and reasonable. There's just too much risk, both actual and reputation-based.
EVOLVE ALL THE THINGS!!!
Again, in this case you really can't. If you're trying to argue that the map for XYZ exists, the map itself is the proof of your argument. If you're trying to argue that XYZ is not mappable, the attempt to do so is the proof of your argument.
So sure, you can talk about it. You just can't have a productive discussion.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
With all due respect, that argument doesn't hold water. If all we're talking about doing is educating people about the existence of box mapping and how to avoid being taken advantage of, those people don't benefit from an in-depth understanding of how box mapping works, nor do they need to see the actual map showing them which packs have the best cards.
All that would be required would be a general cautionary statement advising that a more-or-less reliable means has been made available that allows unscrupulous people to cherry-pick boxes and sell the remainder off as "pure" product, and that if anyone chooses to buy booster packs, the best way to do so is in person at a reputable LGS and/or from a freshly-opened box. That'd be the end of it, really.
EVOLVE ALL THE THINGS!!!
How exactly will these people get educated if some people claim that the set is mapped, some people claim that it isn't/can't be, and neither side is allowed to cite sources/present evidence? How will people know who to believe?
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Also this thread only has 3,000 views. So even if no one knew of the box mapping thread and came here, and then went over there, the box mapping thread has 1000 views a day compared to the sticky with bold red text having 10.4 (rounded up) views per day.
I don't know if I should be proud or facepalm at being the initial author of the thread.
That is Valarin. Yes, the person that initially started this thread.
The reason why this buggered me was because of the last post with the following comments:
So you mean to tell me that you've talked to EVERYONE who has mapped a box and they've ALL stated that they've done it to rip people off? Oh wait, by your own logic, since they mapped a box, they are clearly lying even though you have no viable proof of evidence that they are doing so.
Assuming that someone is doing something with a clear intent in your mind does not make it true.
Actually, they usually just get suspended for the ebay links and site solicitations, but by your comment alone your saying that all ebay links are scams and all site solications are the same. Proxies are an ILLEGAL act. The Godbook was leaked and against WotC policy. Again, you are using illegal acts to justify ethical practices, and then trying to back it up with statements that WotC has clearly stated ARE illegal.
Actually, even if I did map a box for some odd reason, it would be to find what the overall value of the box was vs. what I paid for it. The rest of it, as I stated, would most likely be opened by me anyway just to see what else is in it. Are you going to say that I'm unethical for such?
Don't assume that people do things for reason you automatically think is going to be for ripping someone off.
Also, the part about MWS and Cockatrice... Those are their own things. If Wizards has an issue with them they can pursue that. We are the entity doing "the thing" in this case.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Because you shouldn't believe everything you hear/read. The map is the proof of the claim.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
If your store cares why do you need to have an actual box map? I know that a couple of them here shuffle them up automatically because they know that it is possible to cheat the randomness of pulling packs. Again, knowing that it exists is helpful but having a map is not.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Because the map is proof that you're not making it up. You don't know that the map actually exists without the actual map to verify the claim.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
If you know that it ~could~ exist why wouldn't you shuffle the box? They proved to be real before and Wizards has done nothing to fix it.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Because it's an inconvenience and they don't want to do it unless it's really necessary. It's not unreasonable for them to ask for actual evidence. "It was true before" doesn't mean that it is true now. With each new set we have the possibility that Wizards has fixed it; the only way to find out is to actually make the map.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
It takes like ten seconds.
Cause it makes ZERO sense at all. It's not an argument, it's a lame attempt at a defense of bad behavior. Pulling the money rares out of a box has NOTHING to do with drafting at all.
Fine. Cause Market Street does not exist to rip people off. Box mapping does. Intent matters.
"I took all the valuable cards out of this box so you have no chance of getting them, but I won't tell you" I did that and make you believe you still have a shot at opening money rares"
Selling mapped packs without telling people they are mapped is fraud. If people didn't care about mapped packs, you would have no problem telling them they were mapped. You know if you tell people they are mapped no one will by them, so you keep that info to yourself and rip them off. And then you get incredulous when people cal you out for ripping others people off. Incredible. Absolutely incredible.
I swear to God, you people sound like my 6 year old trying to get out of taking his nighttime bath by arguing for water conservation. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourselves. If you want to keep ripping people off, do it somewhere else.
The only reason you would map a box is to rip off other people. You can easily educate people about box mapping without participating in it. You don't need to map a set to tell people about box mapping. They whole "We need to do this to protect innocents!" argument is even more ludicrous than the "We just do it to draft bad packs with friends!" argument.
Correct, none of the defenses of box mapping have contained a shred of intelligent or rational discourse. They are immoral people scrambling at any shred of a corner case argument they can cling to in a desperate attempt to maintain their ability to be do immoral things. It's really sad. It's like listening to people argue against gay marriage because of "traditional values" or saying women can't serve in combat because they get periods or argue against rational drug laws because black men will obvious start raping white women once they get their hands on that devil weed. It's like the MTGS equivalent of Fox News. I really thought this place was better than that.
Everyone who's ever bought mapped packs which weren't disclosed as such is a tangible victim. The fact that it's impossible or really hard for these people to know they are victims does not make them not victims.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Just stop. No one buys it. You can make up all the ridiculous defenses of the practice you want, no one believes it.
No one believes you are mapping a box because you like drafting bad packs with friends
No one believes you are mapping packs because you want to save people from getting scammed
No one believes trading cards has anything to do with selling mapped packs at full price and ripping people off
No one believes "a pack is a pack" so it's OK to not tell people your packs are from a mapped box and charge them full price.
Really, the more ridiculous your excuses become, the more guilty you make yourself look. Just stop. Take your bad behavior elsewhere.
I do.
I do.
I do.
I do.
I do.
Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration now, isn't it? The end result of mapping a box is that you wind up with a stack of unopened packs that you are reasonably certain contain nothing of value. There are really only three things you can do with those: open them yourself, give them to people for free, or sell/trade them to people not for free.
If you open them yourself, then mapping the box provided you with no value other than an interesting mental exercise. Otherwise, those packs are changing hands somehow.
Thus far, the only stated legitimate use for unopened packs of little value is to "draft with friends for free". I think that's perfectly reasonable, but you have to acknowledge that it is a corner-case scenario, and the likelihood of that happening is vastly outweighed by the likelihood of someone partaking in the numerous unethical uses for the same supply of value-less boosters.
I don't buy the "box mapping is evil" argument, but I do see it as a borderline activity that could very easily be used for unethical purposes. I would rather discussion about box mapping not take place on this site.
EVOLVE ALL THE THINGS!!!