MTG Salvation

Theoretically after enough Magic cards are printed we'll be able to organize a hybrid section.

If you were to make a top 4 hybrid spells for each guild, what would they be? Obviously they're not going to be pretty in most guilds.

UW

• Augury Adept
  
• Swans of Bryn Argoll
  
• Plumeveil
  
• Judge's Familiar

Momentary Blink*

UB

• Nightveil Specter
  
• Oona, Queen of the Fae
  
• Sygg, River Cutthroat

Forbidden Alchemy*
Far/Away*

RB

• Rakdos Cackler
  
• Murderous Redcap
  
• Fulminator Mage
  
• Rakdos Shred Freak

RG

• Boggart Ram-Gang
  
• Tattermunge Maniac
  
• Burning-Tree Emissary
  
• Giant Solifuge
  
• Firespout

GW

• Dryad Militant
  
• Kitchen Finks
  
• Sundering Growth
  
• Wilt-Leaf Liege

WR

• Figure of Destiny
  
• Boros Reckoner
  
• Duergar Hedge-Mage
  
• Spitemare

GU
Spitting Image
x
x
x


WB

• Stillmoon Cavalier
  
• Debtors' Knell
  
• Unmake

Lingering Souls*
Unburial Rites*

RU

• Frostburn Weird
  
• Nucklavee

Fire/Ice*
Turn/Burn*

BG

• Deathrite Shaman
  
• Creakwood Liege

Life/Death*
x

*Cards that tend to play like Hybrid and not full gold.

Curse of chains is also ok. Blue doesn't have lots of removals.

I really like the idea of this discussion. I have moved all my hybrids(and split cards) to their own section and debit the color sections accordingly as a way to handle color balance. If a card doesn't seem like it would be worht it outside the specific two colors it has to go back to the gold section.

This helps with the fact that some sections like W/G, and G/B have great choice but others like G/B are just terrible. Unless Dragonmaze is all hybrids we are going to be stuck with an inbalance for years.

Also as a bonus I have an easy time balancing my gold section now because the most crowded guilds has the mots hybrids.

I see way too many subpar cards in these lists. It seems to me that separate hybrid sections aren't a good idea just yet.

I consider Signets and Talismans to be similar to hybrid cards: they are best when they are fixing two colour for you, but may be worth running as acceleration in decks running only one of the colours.

I feel like we aren't at a point where we can have this discussion since a lot of colors have 0 cards that i would include(all the blue hybrids)

I'm also a fan of

Azorius Guildmage -- used to be a staple, less popular these days.
Manamorphose -- Actually one of the best cards in Magic, and is a nice enabler both for combo and for multicolor aggro.
Balefire Liege -- Gives red decks tremendous reach, and is a decent lord for token decks, which tend to be W or R
Selesnya Guildmage -- Also good in token decks, and honestly a difficult to deal with card in straight GW beatdown.
Life // Death -- Good in both forms, though typically in different decks.
Deus of Calamity I'm trying to include an All-In Red archetype as a deck that's similar to Storm but slightly different. A 6/6 trampler for 5 with massive upside is also good in G or GR midrange. Also goes well in Wildfire-type decks if you can get the colored mana, and in Sneak Attack.

Azorius Guildmage is actually a pretty strong card in the UW section as it can tap multiple creatures or just counter a lot of abilities (including that of planeswalkers). It can be expensive but in the decks you play it in, you usually have a good amount of mana.


Also, I'm pretty big on Burning-Tree Emissary.

Quote from Demagogue

Azorius Guildmage is actually a pretty strong card in the UW section as it can tap multiple creatures or just counter a lot of abilities (including that of planeswalkers). It can be expensive but in the decks you play it in, you usually have a good amount of

A proper hybrid section has only cards in it that can be successfully played without being in both colors so I would exclude all the Ravnica guildmage.

Quote from xfollowthereaperx

A proper hybrid section has only cards in it that can be successfully played without being in both colors so I would exclude all the Ravnica guildmage.

I think that's really dependent on how you define "successfully" as various cards can be played for a portion of their functionality. I know I would play the Azorius Guildmage in a deck that was white but not blue, and I have in larger powered cubes as being GW was enough, and at times I'd play it in blue decks without white, though it's easier to splash there.

One could also argue that something like Fire/Ice could also be considered a "hybrid" card in that sense as either colour can play it for half the effect, but it's optimized when both colours are present. Though would you really not play another burn spell in an aggressive deck just because you couldn't play the Ice part?

Quote from Demagogue

I think that's really dependent on how you define "successfully" as various cards can be played for a portion of their functionality. I know I would play the Azorius Guildmage in a deck that was white but not blue, and I have in larger powered cubes as being GW was enough, and at times I'd play it in blue decks without white, though it's easier to splash there.

One could also argue that something like Fire/Ice could also be considered a "hybrid" card in that sense as either colour can play it for half the effect, but it's optimized when both colours are present. Though would you really not play another burn spell in an aggressive deck just because you couldn't play the Ice part?

Agree with UW mage!

Yes on split cards too, Lingering Souls and Momentary Blink are similar too.

Quote from xfollowthereaperx

Agree with UW mage!

Yes on split cards too, Lingering Souls and Momentary Blink are similar too.

I think it's a bit harder with cards like Lingering Souls and Blink, as you pretty much have to be in their primary colour to use them and not in the secondary colour unless you have multiple discard outlets. Personally I'd consider Souls and Blink to be mono-coloured as in most cubes it's not hard to splash for the flash back and generally the first use of the card is enough to warrant its inclusion until you can dig out that splash fixing at a later and potentially unknown time.

Quote from Demagogue

I think it's a bit harder with cards like Lingering Souls and Blink, as you pretty much have to be in their primary colour to use them and not in the secondary colour unless you have multiple discard outlets. Personally I'd consider Souls and Blink to be mono-coloured as in most cubes it's not hard to splash for the flash back and generally the first use of the card is enough to warrant its inclusion until you can dig out that splash fixing at a later and potentially unknown time.

That is what I have been noticing too. There's always a way to splash the flashback.

Hey there everyone, I updated my cube to include a 4 card "strict" gold section for cards like Knight of the Reliquary and then a 2 card "relaxed" multi-color section which includes cards like Talisman Progress, Lingering Souls, or Kitchen Finks.

My list is in my signature on google docs. I'm still gathering cards for this section so it's not exactly optimal but it's playable.

If you splash for the flashback, its a gold card. If a white card requires you to be able to make black mana before you'll add it to your deck, it's no longer just a white card. Any more than easily splashing a green source makes Bloodbraid Elf a mono-red card, or easily splashing a white source makes Armageddon a blue card.

I can understand classifying cards by their BCS requirements and its what I've done in my cube (with more liberal guild sections than most). But Lingering souls can be played in a Boros deck, and still give you two tokens. Unburial Rites can be played in a Rock deck without any white sources and still reanimate a guy. In the end the reason I don't cut green and white cards to add hybrids like Dryad Militant and instead make hard choices even in my large guild sections is I don't want WG decks to have more card possibilities overall which would be my only concern with guild AND hybrid sections.

Oh god. I've never had to play a Lingering Souls with no black mana. Are your cube decks really so bad that a card like that is good?

Quote from wtwlf123

Oh god. I've never had to play a Lingering Souls with no black mana. Are your cube decks really so bad that a card like that is good?

LOL! I personally have never had this problem, though I do Winston/Sealed my cube way more often than I get to draft it. I didn't say I'd classify it this way because its good. I classify Kird Ape as Gruul, etc.. but I could see someone wanting to open up more multi colored slots trying the cut two colored for two hybrids method, or taking cards like Lingering souls and putting them in their primary color. There is a tension between gold cards all floating around unwanted at the end of drafts, the power level that some gold cards bring, and the ease of use hybrid cards can create in deck building. We're all just trying to find the answer that is right for us, which is why I like to talk about it. Just by reading about other's philosophies I didn't waste months testing guild sections even larger than I am currently running. I personally ended up running 10 cards (lands included) sections in my 540 precisely because some of my choices were cards that could be used sub optimally in one color, Boggart Ram Gang and Stillmoon Cavalier to name a couple examples.

Those are hybrid cards that give you full card value without access to both colors. Lingering Souls isn't.

I see your point, but having Ram gang in a Boros deck means I'm probably not getting him down on curve like I would in a Gruul deck. To me that's about the same level of subparness (that a word?) as only getting to cast Souls once. I mean, many of us run Midnight Haunting, right?

Quote from Ultimateer

I see your point, but having Ram gang in a Boros deck means I'm probably not getting him down on curve like I would in a Gruul deck. To me that's about the same level of subparness (that a word?) as only getting to cast Souls once. I mean, many of us run Midnight Haunting, right?

Is Midnight Haunting actually run by anyone?

Lingering Soul would not make a cut in my cube without access to black mana. It's horrible as a white card.

Quote from Ultimateer

I see your point, but having Ram gang in a Boros deck means I'm probably not getting him down on curve like I would in a Gruul deck. To me that's about the same level of subparness (that a word?) as only getting to cast Souls once. I mean, many of us run Midnight Haunting, right?

I think Haunting is terrible. And it's still better than Souls with no black mana.

Ram Gang is Boros is rough, and I wouldn't include it unless my deck was RR/w. And in that case, it can still reliably be played on T3-4, and it would be much better than a Souls without Flashback.

But that point is moot anyways, because Ram Gang goes in the RG section, just like Souls should go in the WB section.

Quote from wtwlf123

But that point is moot anyways, because Ram Gang goes in the RG section, just like Souls should go in the WB section.

Personally, I agree. I just don't begrudge others their own system of organization. I'm always interested in how others do so and what I might learn to make my cube better. I appreciate your view point and this discussion.

Quote from wtwlf123

Oh god. I've never had to play a Lingering Souls with no black mana. Are your cube decks really so bad that a card like that is good?

I don't think anyone ever has... Cubes have good mana, and being able to cast the first half of a spell is usually enough as long as it's in your main colour. The second half can generally wait until you draw into your splash without a problem... This is not the case with BBE or Armageddon where none of the spell can be cast without the splash colour.

Let's be real here for a second, cube decks are never so bad that they can't splash the secondary cost of a spell, so it's pretty absurd to go around stating that a spell is gold because you generally splash for the flash back even if you can easily cast the first half without an issue. I can understand in the case of say Kird Ape where the card wants to be aggressive and can't really afford to go in a deck without a decent amount of fetches/duals or simply forests, or Shackles which does nothing without islands, but in the case of Lingering Souls, are you really going to claim that it's unplayable off of the 1 odd dual land that you might not have a good method of fetching.

You might as well classify something like Grafted Wargear or Bonesplitter as a RWG card because blue can't really go aggro mode, and black is more about the whole pox thing.