I currently run Thran Dynamo, but am thinking Skyshroud Claim may be better. (In our META we don't see a lot of Land Destruction. There is some Artifact removal, however).
For Uril Tron specifically I would rather the 2 and 3 mana ramp over the 4 mana kind.
But all in all anything over three mana has to provide some decent CA or utility. I love the Farseek, Nature's Lore, and Three Visits cards for their versatility and fixing with duals. They are also prime targets to use turn 2 and Snapcaster them on turn 3 because the cost is amazing. I also prefer these to Skyshroud Claim because I would rather have 4 lands on turn 3 than 8 lands on turn 7. Not to mention they have less requirements to cast. It's easier to keep a 2 landed with Farseek than a 2 lander with Claim.
Chromatic Lantern provide the best fixing. I would run this in any 3-5 color deck without duals.
Lastly I believe Solemn Simulacrum should be in almost every deck. From mono colored to 5 color, the utility is unmatched. Unless you go with some creature less or on theme deck it should be in there.
There is no difference between blowing up a Talisman and blowing up a shockland. In the same way that there is no difference between killing a creature and countering it. Incorrect perception doesn't justify anything.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I'm speaking purely in theory about how the types of cards are socially perceived. People tend to miss how similar the things they hate are to things they are fine with.
I'm speaking purely in theory about how the types of cards are socially perceived. People tend to miss how similar the things they hate are to things they are fine with.
I have never seen targeted LD be an issue, but have seen people get tweaked about getting their rocks blown up. Weird I know.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
For Uril Tron specifically I would rather the 2 and 3 mana ramp over the 4 mana kind.
But all in all anything over three mana has to provide some decent CA or utility. I love the Farseek, Nature's Lore, and Three Visits cards for their versatility and fixing with duals. They are also prime targets to use turn 2 and Snapcaster them on turn 3 because the cost is amazing. I also prefer these to Skyshroud Claim because I would rather have 4 lands on turn 3 than 8 lands on turn 7. Not to mention they have less requirements to cast. It's easier to keep a 2 landed with Farseek than a 2 lander with Claim.
Chromatic Lantern provide the best fixing. I would run this in any 3-5 color deck without duals.
Lastly I believe Solemn Simulacrum should be in almost every deck. From mono colored to 5 color, the utility is unmatched. Unless you go with some creature less or on theme deck it should be in there.
We are definitely on the same page... In my Uril build I run everything you mentioned... Nature's Lore, Farseek, Chromatic Lantern, Solemn Simulacrum. The only thing that I don't have is Three Visits. Agreeing with you, I would much rather have Three Visits in my Uril deck than Skyshroud Claim. Looking at the price, however, it is now officially on my "wish list".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Do you like watching Commander Gameplay? Check out our EDH Battles on Youtube! MTGCasualPlay EDH Battles
I find that if you play a TON of ramp, Khalni Heart Expedition is really good, but it's really more of a straw that breaks the camel's back; you already have to be really invested in ramping.
I find that if you play a TON of ramp, Khalni Heart Expedition is really good, but it's really more of a straw that breaks the camel's back; you already have to be really invested in ramping.
The only two decks I ran that in were Uril because he cared about enchantments, and a Pauper 5c deck.
I'll pose a question. Why is it ok to destroy rocks like Signets or Talismans but not land? No one complains when non-blue decks draw cards but as soon as a non-green deck ramps they are allowed to have their resources targeted. Just something I've seen lots of and it's one of the reasons I have such a bitter feeling toward green mages.
Personally, I'd no sooner target a Signet with artifact removal than I would target a shockland with LD. But sometimes, it's the end of your turn and I have the mana up for Shattering Pulse with buyback, so why not? Or they just get swept away when the white player casts Akroma's Vengeance.
As far as mass removal goes, having one's lands destroyed is often much harder to recover from than having a few rocks blown up. Very rarely is it the case that mana rocks are relied upon as much as lands, so the latter's removal can be devastating, especially when the mass land destruction is used to combat a single ramping player; all the other players (who are not ramping as much) are affected too, and their decks may not be prepared for recovery from land sweepers.
When mass land destruction is used offensively, the game is likely over soon. When it's used defensively, this is not the case, and the non-offending players must deal with the consequences that the ramp player(s) provoked. The result may be the inability to continue playing, whereas mass artifact destruction still allows the basic resource of land so that the game can continue and all players can remain playing.
As for a solution to this problem, we need land sweepers that cater to multiplayer formats. Even something as simple as War's Wake (below) might be more acceptable than Armageddon in many groups. Variations on Oath of Lieges, Keldon Firebombers, and Natural Balance would be nice. A more expensive Balance or a Limited Resources without it's second ability might prove welcome.
War's Wake3W Sorcery - (R)
Target player sacrifices all of his or her lands, then sacrifice all of your lands. Though the war was not all-encompassing, those it did affect were devastated.
EDIT: The best land destruction spells? I'll list some of the best defensive ones, along with other ways to combat land ramp:
In my saffi deck my ramp is mostly creature based. I have some non-creature based ramp, but it tends to be more expensive and brings in more lands for when I have Avenger of Zendikar in play. I am adding in sol ring, because I want the extra speed it provides. I would add mana crypt if it wasn't so expensive. Generally I like my ramp to be 2 or 3 mana. I want to have some in the beginning to ramp out a threat, but I also need it for late game to thin my deck, gain landfall triggers and make genesis wave bigger.
For Uril Tron specifically I would rather the 2 and 3 mana ramp over the 4 mana kind.
But all in all anything over three mana has to provide some decent CA or utility. I love the Farseek, Nature's Lore, and Three Visits cards for their versatility and fixing with duals. They are also prime targets to use turn 2 and Snapcaster them on turn 3 because the cost is amazing. I also prefer these to Skyshroud Claim because I would rather have 4 lands on turn 3 than 8 lands on turn 7. Not to mention they have less requirements to cast. It's easier to keep a 2 landed with Farseek than a 2 lander with Claim.
Chromatic Lantern provide the best fixing. I would run this in any 3-5 color deck without duals.
Lastly I believe Solemn Simulacrum should be in almost every deck. From mono colored to 5 color, the utility is unmatched. Unless you go with some creature less or on theme deck it should be in there.
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
Are you only talking about targeted LD?
I'm speaking purely in theory about how the types of cards are socially perceived. People tend to miss how similar the things they hate are to things they are fine with.
I have never seen targeted LD be an issue, but have seen people get tweaked about getting their rocks blown up. Weird I know.
We are definitely on the same page... In my Uril build I run everything you mentioned... Nature's Lore, Farseek, Chromatic Lantern, Solemn Simulacrum. The only thing that I don't have is Three Visits. Agreeing with you, I would much rather have Three Visits in my Uril deck than Skyshroud Claim. Looking at the price, however, it is now officially on my "wish list".
I write EDH articles on EDHREC and MTGCasualPlay. I hope you like them!
EDH DECKLISTS
RGWUril, the Miststalker WBRKaalia of the Vast Sunforger WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUGDerevi, Empyrial TacticianWUBRGSliver Queen EDH
UB Wrexial, the Risen DeepWU Hanna, Ship's NavigatorWGSigarda, Host of Herons EnchantressWULavinia, of the Tenth
RRPurphoros, God of the ForgeBBChainer, Dementia MasterWWEight-and-a-Half TailsUUMuzzio, Visionary ArchitectGGJolrael, Empress of Beasts
BGVhati il-DalRWTajic, Blade of the LegionUBRZurgo HelmsmasherUBDaxos the ReturnedWBKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWUBruna, Light of Alabaster
RWAurelia Angel Tribal URJhoira Chaos Deck UGVorel +1 Counters BRGProssh Tokens
UBRGwendlyn Discard EDH URG Surrak Dragonclaw UBLazav Mill EDH WUBrago Flicker EDH Deck
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
The only two decks I ran that in were Uril because he cared about enchantments, and a Pauper 5c deck.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Wildfire makes some good points here:
As far as mass removal goes, having one's lands destroyed is often much harder to recover from than having a few rocks blown up. Very rarely is it the case that mana rocks are relied upon as much as lands, so the latter's removal can be devastating, especially when the mass land destruction is used to combat a single ramping player; all the other players (who are not ramping as much) are affected too, and their decks may not be prepared for recovery from land sweepers.
When mass land destruction is used offensively, the game is likely over soon. When it's used defensively, this is not the case, and the non-offending players must deal with the consequences that the ramp player(s) provoked. The result may be the inability to continue playing, whereas mass artifact destruction still allows the basic resource of land so that the game can continue and all players can remain playing.
As for a solution to this problem, we need land sweepers that cater to multiplayer formats. Even something as simple as War's Wake (below) might be more acceptable than Armageddon in many groups. Variations on Oath of Lieges, Keldon Firebombers, and Natural Balance would be nice. A more expensive Balance or a Limited Resources without it's second ability might prove welcome.
War's Wake 3W
Sorcery - (R)
Target player sacrifices all of his or her lands, then sacrifice all of your lands.
Though the war was not all-encompassing, those it did affect were devastated.
EDIT: The best land destruction spells? I'll list some of the best defensive ones, along with other ways to combat land ramp:
Does anyone know of other cards that severely punish/restrict the ramp player?
I noticed that noone mentioned Somberwald Sage or Gilded Lotus for ramping. Both are very solid options for EDH IMO.
EDIT: Nevermind, I see the lotus mentioned. I'll just endorse it again in that case.
I'll add another one, Perilous Forays. Great sac outlet and fetches dual lands also.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
My Saffi deck
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Tithe is an excellent card. Gift of Estates is not as good, but similar. Neither are ramp though, merely fixing and consistancy.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg