MTG Salvation

So after doing a 6 man cube draft with my cube we did one with my friends cube, that while being powered, is a little off the wall. One card I saw in it that kind of interested me was this:



Blue tempo and aggro has been picking up a lot lately, and Telekinesis is kind of interesting.

It basically removes a creature for 3 turns as it taps the creature and then that creature doesn't untap for 2 full untap phases. Not only that, but it also prevents any combat damage the creature does, meaning that it can be used during combat as a trick to basically kill an opposing creature, or if they try to pump it in some way you can not only blank that pump but remove the creature for two turns.

What does this card have over bounce or regular removal? Well for starters it doesn't trigger any of the leaves play effects, undying, or persist, so it's a removal spell that kind of gets around that for a bit. It also keeps the CIP effects off, unlike bounce.

I know it's a weird card, but I thought I'd get your opinions on it.

Wow, a blast from the past this is. It's interesting, kind of a Parallax Doom Blade. The cost is rough, but this sort of thing is not 'on curve', so it can be forgiven for that. Blue removal is a rare thing and it could be decent despite the card disadvantage when it's a) a combat trick, b) an unusual effect in the colour.

It's a very valid point about ETB effects when nearly everything we run has that, nowadays. Sure I can't do it on my own stuff, but it's rare that I can afford that luxury and blink effects are much more efficient.

Could be worth testing in certain cubes.

Isn't Narcolepsy better? I mean, it doesn't tap down a blocker when you're on the beatdown, but it's easier to cast, goes in more decks, and locks down the creature permanently. Even something like Sleeping Potion would tap the creature right away, and would probably lock it out of the game for just as long as Telekinesis does, and that card costs 1U instead.

I'd rather play a card like that (or a bounce spell of any kind if it needs to be offensive) than Telekinesis.

Also loving that art work too. Though the art on Sleeping Potion is also amazing.

I might be interested in this card too. Seems cool.

Wolf, scanning your list, you run Shard, Roil, Capsize, and Portal for bounce cards. Those four are enough for temp? I am probably missing some...

I've been running Telekinesis in my peasant cube for a while and it's been a fun little spell (it was released as an uncommon in MTGO Masters Edition). Knocking out a critter for 3 turns can be pretty close to just outright killing it in a lot of games. It can occasionally be straight up better than bounce or death if you're facing ETB critters or reanimation. The casting cost is a bit of a bummer.

I don't think you're missing anything by excluding it, but I enjoy playing obscure cards in my cube and I think it's a perfectly reasonable card for larger standard cubes or peasant cubes of any size.

Quote from flutterguy

Wolf, scanning your list, you run Shard, Roil, Capsize, and Portal for bounce cards. Those four are enough for temp? I am probably missing some...

And Man-o'-War, and Venser, Shaper Savant, and Cryptic Command, and Repeal, and Waterfront Bouncer, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Not to mention all the tapping effects and all the creature theft. There's more than enough.

Oh, and Simic Charm.

And Aether Adept!

Hahaha, I missed them all... pretty much anyway.

Quote from wtwlf123

Isn't Narcolepsy better? I mean, it doesn't tap down a blocker when you're on the beatdown, but it's easier to cast, goes in more decks, and locks down the creature permanently. Even something like Sleeping Potion would tap the creature right away, and would probably lock it out of the game for just as long as Telekinesis does, and that card costs 1U instead.

I'd rather play a card like that (or a bounce spell of any kind if it needs to be offensive) than Telekinesis.

No, not at all. What this card does better than both Narcolepsy and Sleeping Potion:

1.) Instant speed, so it can hit a haste dude which is massively important against something like a Hellrider or a big dude that was dropped into play via Sneak Attack.

2.) It can be used to kill a creature outright, as it prevents the combat damage you can block and then use this to make sure their guy dies and yours lives.

3.) The fact that it prevents damage means if they equip their creature with a Jitte or Sword you can stop it during combat, thus taking away a full activation of that card, whereas tapping a single creature down means they can equip it to a different creature.

4.) In the case of Narcolepsy the creature still untaps, meaning that if it's something like a Fauna Shaman that is relevant for the tap ability they can still activate it.

I'd say the cards are rather different.

But you sacrifice those things for a harder to cast card that only temporarily stops their creature. In the OP, you talked about including the card for an Aggro/Tempo deck. The defensive upsides to Telekenesis aren't as relevant in those decks. And I think the splashable cost is more important there too.

Well Sleeping Potion only stops it temporarily too, but really in a lot of cases temporarily means indefinitely when it comes to cube as you either win, lose, or simply destroy everything in the span of 3 turns. As for mentioning Tempo/Aggro, well yea, they're the most likely to press the advantage of locking down a specific card, though I did specifically mention blue based decks of that nature so the castability of the card shouldn't be that massive, and really the defensive nature can be game changing in mirrors or against other fast decks. Being able to answer a life linker like Batterskull, a persist life gainer like Kitchen Finks, or an equipped Umezawa's Jitte is the difference between a win and a loss.

Also it's just fine in control decks, like playing it on turn 2-3, or even later on various creatures can allow you to get to that critical Wrath while still forcing them to extend onto the board during those turns while their important threat is locked down. What's nice about it in that situation though is that it acts like most removal there, since it stops haste threats that attack in for value like Hellrider, but it also lets you give them the chance to attack in for triggered effects like Goblin Guide. Also as I've mentioned this stops tap abilities from working for 2 turns, unlike Narcolepsy which is really bad against something like Stoneforge Mystic or Grim Lavamancer or Deathrite Shaman.

Well in control, I'd rather have Narcolepsy (Curse of Chains). It's easier to cast and deals with the card more permanently. In tempo, I'd rather use Sleeping Potion, because it's easier to cast and still taps the creature right away (and probably ties it up longer on average than Telekenesis does). I lose the instant speed and the combat trick nature of the card for a more reliable effect that is easier to cast.

If I'm using any of these options on a Grim Lavamancer, I'm feeling pretty bad about my situation, so I don't care so much that it's not as good against activated abilities.

The point is kinda moot anyways, because I don't think any of these cards are even remotely good enough for the cube. I think two bad cards are better than a worse one. I'd rather use a bounce spell. It gets rid of the attacker/blocker, but it also consumes more of my opponent's resources when they're forced to recast it, which is the battle I want to win in tempo anyways. And it can likely deal with more than just creature spells too.

I think I would just rather run Hands of Binding.

I'm a fan of Withdraw in these kinds of formats. Telekinesis isn't a bad card or anything, and I certainly think that it's better than sleeping potion or ice cage, because the race is very important in aggro vs. aggro. I just think it's kind of a niche card. Wouldn't judge if you used it.

Quote from Pringlesman

I think I would just rather run Hands of Binding.

Quote from Kryptnyt

I'm a fan of Withdraw in these kinds of formats. Telekinesis isn't a bad card or anything, and I certainly think that it's better than sleeping potion or ice cage, because the race is very important in aggro vs. aggro. I just think it's kind of a niche card. Wouldn't judge if you used it.

Ya, both of these options are also better, IMO.

Quote from Kryptnyt

I'm a fan of Withdraw in these kinds of formats. Telekinesis isn't a bad card or anything, and I certainly think that it's better than sleeping potion or ice cage, because the race is very important in aggro vs. aggro. I just think it's kind of a niche card. Wouldn't judge if you used it.

I've been playing Withdraw in pauper and that card is very impressive. Bounce two creatures when they are tapped out. Bounce there creature and your ETB ability creature, in responce to removal bounce there guy and the guy they targeted. Card is good.

Hm, maybe I'll add Withdraw in as it seems like a cool card, and more importantly it actually gives cube a card from Prophecy which is awesome.

Chimeric Idol is another decent card from Prophecy if you want to try keeping one card from each set. Though Chimeric Mass is almost strictly better.

Quote from Demagogue

Hm, maybe I'll add Withdraw in as it seems like a cool card, and more importantly it actually gives cube a card from Prophecy which is awesome.

Ya, it's tough to find a Prophecy card.

Chimeric Idol and Rhystic Lightning aren't too bad either.

I considered Chimeric Idol awhile back but as you said the Mass is just better, not that either of them are exactly amazing. I like the idea of having a card from each set, but not enough to really go out of my way to do it.

@Waffles: I'd say Abolish is better than both of those, especially since white has so many ways of putting a land into its hand, thanks to Land Tax, Weathered Wayfarer, and even Eternal Dragon... It also goes well with blue which offers things like Meloku.

Abolish really isn't that bad as a lot of equipment can generate a decent amount of advantage the turn it comes into play and some players might wait until you're tapped out to avoid counters or Disenchants.

Abolish would be at its best in a small powered cube, and even there it wasn't that great. I think Idol/Lightning/Withdraw are better Prophecy cards.