Rules:
1:Votes, Unvotes, and requests must be bolded. Otherwise they will be ignored.
2: Do not quote me. If I am incorrect in my vote count or other public announcement, please correct me.
3: All MTGS rules are still in place
4: No editing under pain of modkill. That’s why EBWODP was invented.
5:I hate lurkers. If you have no posts in a 3-real life day period, you will be prodded, giving you 2 days to post. Then you will be replaced, this of course is assuming that you haven’t alerted me, for example you could pm or post, “I’ll be gone for 4 days, don’t replace me”.
6: If the day stalls out, Deadlines will be created. If a deadline is reached with no lynch, the person with the most votes will be lynched.
7: Have fun, Mafia is a game, and games are meant to be fun.
Players(BOLD for confirm): Raf-Grimclaw Suth CP Wuff Andel SB Charmmaster
The dead:
Bateleur, Yahiko Myojin mafia superdon
Loran16, Jin-E Neutral SK
Xyre, Hannya Town Bodyguard
Giftstrix, Town Multivoter
Cyan, Town Masonic Doc
Replace List:
Alx2
Grimclaw.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
Kamiya Kaoru is dead! The beloved wife of Himura Kenshin has been murdered! Not only that, Kenji, Kenshin and Kaoru’s son has been kidnapped as well! The kidnapping murderers are the mafia, and the characters of Rurouni Kenshin must search for the horrible criminals!
Oh, and did I mention that Charmmaster was on the mainland at the time, so he couldn't have been the perpetrator of these offenses?
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
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.....Akid....you shouldve gotten kenji to replace, and given HIM the confirmed townie role.
Kenji=Confirmed Townie. Not C_M. Seriously, get your players straight.
Vote Wuffles for awful tv mafia play. If he does that again here, i'll hop a flight to new zealand and WoD will need to plan his brother's funeral. (Joking.... somewhat. ... Maybe.)
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Yeah, I agree with loran... on all accounts. Kenji should have replaced, I would have ROFLed, literally. And Vote Wuffles so I don't have to do it on the last day.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Kamiya Kaoru is dead! The beloved wife of Himura Kenshin has been murdered! Not only that, Kenji, Kenshin and Kaoru’s son has been kidnapped as well! The kidnapping murderers are the mafia, and the characters of Rurouni Kenshin must search for the horrible criminals!
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well, first off, let's get one scum (loran) out of the way. He's scum so often that it makes me want to cry. Oh, and by the way, loran, screw you, i wasn't able to put in as much effort as usual into tv mafia.
In other news, Vote CP for not being able to avoid the obvious 'vote someone for being the second vote on Day 1 in a mini' temptation. Plus, apparently he was serious about the vote, so..yeah.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
depends, I guess. which one is most likely to be RB? get that out of the way so the doc can protect safely.
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i just can't wait for the eventual loran is being jumpy lynch and i turn up town.
Just Saying, I'm gonna laught at U.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Please excuse me while I sleep in a corner until all the stupid random voting is over.
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<Limited Clan>
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Since there was no night zero, nobody has any information other than what's in their role PMs. The one exception in this particular game is Charm Master, who has pretty much been cleared by the Mod.
This being the case, I think we should let Charm Master nominate someone to lynch. (Obviously we get them to claim first just in case.)
Is random voting better than that? If so, perhaps you could explain why?
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<Limited Clan>
Since there was no night zero, nobody has any information other than what's in their role PMs. The one exception in this particular game is Charm Master, who has pretty much been cleared by the Mod.
This being the case, I think we should let Charm Master nominate someone to lynch. (Obviously we get them to claim first just in case.)
Is random voting better than that? If so, perhaps you could explain why?
Uh, because not everyone has faith in Charm's ability to just MAGICALLY pick out scum?
What the hell, bateleur, you're a better player than this, you should know the folly of getting a confirmed townie to nominate a lynch - he has no more information than any of us.
The only difference between him and anyone else is that we know not to lynch him, in a day like this, with no information nor analysis to go on.
What the hell, bateleur, you're a better player than this, you should know the folly of getting a confirmed townie to nominate a lynch - he has no more information than any of us.
Relax dude. If you don't understand you can always ask me to explain instead of ranting at me.
It's simple mathematics. CM has no way to do better than a random pick (we must assume). However, nor do the rest of us. Compare with the situation where we just stumble around until we settle on a lynch target. That's less good than random, because the Mafia amongst us exert more than zero influence over the choice.
Seriously.
Ooh, you wouldn't like him when he's angry. Angry like this:
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<Limited Clan>
Wuffles: I seem to remember some gimmick in Matrix mafia that I helped get killed off...
Bate's logic is sound, although I'm probably going to end up outing power (given my crap-tacular luck), so I'll pass on deciding our target...for now.
Unvote on that end.
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What the hell, bateleur, you're a better player than this, you should know the folly of getting a confirmed townie to nominate a lynch - he has no more information than any of us.
And no less. With the added bonus that he's not intentionally messing with us.
It's silly to say "pick someone" at the start of the day, but once there's more to work with we could probably do worse than follow CM's lead, at least for today.
I don't think it's good logic at all. If we talk, we can figure out who the mafia is ourselves, and even their sway won't deter us. There have been a reasonable amount of d1 mafia lynches here.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
If we talk, we can figure out who the mafia is ourselves, and even their sway won't deter us.
Just to be clear, I wasn't proposing not talking and just ending the day. That would suck.
What I'm proposing is that CM picks who to lynch. And, specifically, I think this is a better way to tiebreak the usual day one stalemate than for everyone to random vote until someone makes a typo or uses a questionable turn of phrase that everyone misinterprets as scummy.
There have been a reasonable amount of d1 mafia lynches here.
In games I've played in the initial targetting has been nothing short of abysmal. The only reason the lynch record isn't worse is because scum occasionally try unwise things like setting up falseclaims on day one and trap themselves completely unnecessarily.
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<Limited Clan>
Just to be clear, I wasn't proposing not talking and just ending the day. That would suck.
What I'm proposing is that CM picks who to lynch. And, specifically, I think this is a better way to tiebreak the usual day one stalemate than for everyone to random vote until someone makes a typo or uses a questionable turn of phrase that everyone misinterprets as scummy.
Now Really this reminds me of a irc mafia strategy. with a few caveats. as far as i know, it hasn't ever been tried in a forum mafia game here.
however it is Especially flawed. this method means that we'd get little to no information from the votes on the wagon that CM chooses, and the only info we'd garner would be that of the claim of the person CM wagons. whereas vhen it comes to a normal wagon, regardless of the strength of the info that leads to the wagon, the wagon generates info on those who are involved with it.
in other words, this plan relies on a confirmed townie to make a random guess on one of the other 11 player, which would only give information on the player he chooses.
Whereas a normal wagon would give information on all of the those on the wagon and those who are reacting to it.
in other words, this plan = bad
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I agree with everything Loran's saying, and I might add that with the luck I've been having, my top 2 picks for scum will almost certainly be doc and cop.
Loran's reactions are notable, but don't remind me of his antics from matrix or TV. I'm willing to give him a pass at least for today.
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We have this discussion every single time this comes up in a game.
But I'll go through it one more time for anyone who missed the last three...
No, you do not get useful "who's on the wagon" information in this situation. There's simply no need for the Mafia to direct the town's thinking at all. They can just lurk around doing exactly...
...wait, let's have that again but louder...
...EXACTLY what they would do as townies. Nothing that anyone does today can possibly advance the game for the town in any way unless someone has a day ability, because without a night zero we're all completely in the dark.
Our aim is simply to come out of this with minimum damage and to arrive at the next day with better chances. No previous game has ever contradicted this basic fact.
(Oh, and if any of you ever run a Mafia game... DO NOT have an informationless day one. They're just stupid.)
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<Limited Clan>
First, that's actually not a bad suggestion, bat, at least insofar as starting out the game goes. Obviously, more would have to go into it than just lynching the player CM chooses, but I wouldn't particularly object to running someone up to claim range on that basis.
The argument that we won't have any reactions that way is not a good one, because CM will still have to provide a basis for his opinions, and people will have to react to those.
As for loran, don't go giving him a pass for the day already. We're less than 24 hours into the game.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
The argument that we won't have any reactions that way is not a good one, because CM will still have to provide a basis for his opinions, and people will have to react to those.
Like what? Previous games or maybe screen name? Gut feeling?
Following CM after he has a read (no matter how accurate really) is more than fine. I think the argument is 'following someone CM randomly picks is dumb!' versus 'Hmm we should run up the first person CM finds scummy at all up the pole to start the day b/c he isn't messing with us'
I agree with statement two. It's a cool idea to day one. Statement one is just lunacy.
For example if you were to point out something like: Hey, there's really weird capitalization in Loran's post #32, I wonder if he's breadcrumbing a roleclaim? ...then CM (and everyone else) could go and look for themselves and form their own assessment. They wouldn't need to make assumptions about whether you were scum or not to cross-check your observation.
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<Limited Clan>
For example if you were to point out something like: Hey, there's really weird capitalization in Loran's post #32, I wonder if he's breadcrumbing a roleclaim? ...then CM (and everyone else) could go and look for themselves and form their own assessment. They wouldn't need to make assumptions about whether you were scum or not to cross-check your observation.
So, in other words, we're doing what we always do - wait for a decent wagon to come around?
Don't get me wrong... the plan's not bad, it's just normal.
Basically, instead of the town being the final decider, CM is.
And besides, bat, the only reason that we catch mafia at all is because they mess up (or have a cop investigation). You saying that they just need to act like townies today seems not like useful information, but directing them. If you hate informationless d1s, why aren't you advocating a NL? Then we start it how you want, right?
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
And besides, bat, the only reason that we catch mafia at all is because they mess up (or have a cop investigation).
That is so, so not true.
Sure, a lot of Mafia mess up in practice, but what makes Mafia work as a game is the pressure the game setups put on them which cause them to screw up. If you run a straight Vanilla Mafia game there is no way to catch scum except get lucky. (Hmm... who won that game? I forget now. ;))
If you hate informationless d1s, why aren't you advocating a NL?
Because my preference is for no-kill night zeros. Call me paranoid, but I doubt tonight will be no-kill.
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<Limited Clan>
Personally, having been scum a lot recently, i can say that no kill nights are NOT fun, and are not good for n0s.
@CP and Bate, i highlydisagree. Just having CM give his reasons for choosing the wagon target will not gather much information besides that of the target himself.
A normal day 1 wagon, while usually started on little good evidence whatsoever, allows for us to get reactions and reasonings from those on and against the wagon. Scum trying to manipulate the wagon can be caught in this way, which is how the town generally lynches scum on day 1.
Bate's plan essentially has us doing nothing really, and then CM choosing a person. After that, the only reactions/reasonings we can analyze are CM's (which is worthless as he's confirmed) and the wagon target. Which is worse than a normal wagon.
TDNMA_NR_INK
(Letters? What could you be talking about, bate?)
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Alright, mafia, you should agree to a no-kill night. Do you agree?
Vanilla mafia has nothing to do with it. In theory, if everyone was excellent at mafia, the mafia should almost always win. (Assuming 12 people and 2 scum (below what is normally played here), if everyone had no tells, lynches would be random. This results in the mafia winning 3 times out of 4, or 26.56%) Of course if there's one person who is good at being scum, they're going to win a vanilla mafia game.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
Hmm.
Thats an interesting proposal Bat.
I think that at the least it would prove interesting.
And i disagree about the lack of tells; peoples reactions to this idea, peoples reactions to CM's choice, Because, what would probably happen, and my belief of what SHOULD happen is.
Cm nominates someone, then we focus on THAT person. \
Questioning them, extracting a soft claim, Discussing the soft claim and getting the town to weigh in.
This would provide ALOT of information, and give the day a shot in the ass, as well as give stuff to analyze later for anyone whose interested.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
In all honesty, confirmed or not, I'm leery to put the decision process in CM's hands. While loran misses the point, he's part right in saying that this is less useful.
On the other hand, bateleur's suggestion of this makes me think he's either confident we'll go along with it (and considering the reactions, if he's scum, he'll probably back down from it soon), or he's honestly trying to help (town). Probably the latter.
The person I'm most interested in at this moment is actually Rafk. His first post seems rather offhandish.
For example if you were to point out something like: Hey, there's really weird capitalization in Loran's post #32, I wonder if he's breadcrumbing a roleclaim? ...then CM (and everyone else) could go and look for themselves and form their own assessment. They wouldn't need to make assumptions about whether you were scum or not to cross-check your observation.
I'd just like to say here that pointing out potential breadcrumbing is NEVER the play of a smart townie. I know I hadn't really noticed that until you bought it up. If you're town, stop acting like scum, please.
And CM, I was not intending to insult you as a mafia player (though you're overestimating your role in a certain gimmick's lynch - Ged falseclaimed incorrectly without noticing you'd already claimed - if you hadn't blown the whistle you'd be a worse mafia player than coiledflame was...) but just reiterating that you're just a townie day 1, with no additional info, just like the rest of us. The only difference is that we know you're not trying to mislead the town.
To be honest, assuming that your scum-reading abilities are so good that you could pick out a scum D1 with no info seems a tad overconfident to me.
Who expects him to find scum on D1??? That wasn't my intention. Having CM guide us only guarantees the wagon's motive is purely scum chasing and not misleading. Its the wagons that stem from the original that would be valuable.
I very much dislike the idea of CM just choosing a wagon for us. Despite what everyone says about the scum having it so easy on day one, they get caught quite often.
Greenwood*, Random 3, Medieval, Cat, 1001 Nights, Kung Fu, and MK lynched scum first.
Newb 15, Matrix, Redux, and Blizzard (and maybe Cold War, but no one really knew better) lynched townies first.
*Well, if bateleur didn't lead people astray. Hmmm.
That means scum are lynched first over 50% of the time. And now we essentially want to make day one into a random lynch. The target may be generally considered suspicious, but the fact remains that we put all the fault/credit onto one player, and not those on the wagon.
As for "we don't want the scum leading us astray!" line that's being thrown around, no. The scum cannot lead us that far astray because a) they don't have enough people, as long as we're not stupid enough to blindly follow random people and b) they're not going to tarnish their record so badly as to only push the town towards townies and away from scum, or, if they do, we have easy lynches later. That's the entire *idea* of having voting records, even on an informationless day one.
Quote from Xyre »
Unvote
Loran's self-effacing posts aren't making me happy. FOS loran16, considering he's at 2 already.
You were seriously thinking about voting him for that?
1:Votes, Unvotes, and requests must be bolded. Otherwise they will be ignored.
2: Do not quote me. If I am incorrect in my vote count or other public announcement, please correct me.
3: All MTGS rules are still in place
4: No editing under pain of modkill. That’s why EBWODP was invented.
5:I hate lurkers. If you have no posts in a 3-real life day period, you will be prodded, giving you 2 days to post. Then you will be replaced, this of course is assuming that you haven’t alerted me, for example you could pm or post, “I’ll be gone for 4 days, don’t replace me”.
6: If the day stalls out, Deadlines will be created. If a deadline is reached with no lynch, the person with the most votes will be lynched.
7: Have fun, Mafia is a game, and games are meant to be fun.
Players(BOLD for confirm):
Raf-Grimclaw
Suth
CP
Wuff
Andel
SB
Charmmaster
The dead:
Bateleur, Yahiko Myojin mafia superdon
Loran16, Jin-E Neutral SK
Xyre, Hannya Town Bodyguard
Giftstrix, Town Multivoter
Cyan, Town Masonic Doc
Replace List:
Alx2
Grimclaw.
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Kamiya Kaoru is dead! The beloved wife of Himura Kenshin has been murdered! Not only that, Kenji, Kenshin and Kaoru’s son has been kidnapped as well! The kidnapping murderers are the mafia, and the characters of Rurouni Kenshin must search for the horrible criminals!
Oh, and did I mention that Charmmaster was on the mainland at the time, so he couldn't have been the perpetrator of these offenses?
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CONVIENTLY AWAY WERE WE?
Vote SB for wanting to kill the cleared townie!
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Kenji=Confirmed Townie. Not C_M. Seriously, get your players straight.
Vote Wuffles for awful tv mafia play. If he does that again here, i'll hop a flight to new zealand and WoD will need to plan his brother's funeral. (Joking.... somewhat. ... Maybe.)
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
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He's always mafia.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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But I agree with Xyre... that guy is always mafia.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
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Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Kenji can't replace, he was kidnapped.
Salvation Mafia Clan
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last updated 03/23/11
@Suth: you placed a second vote. That's good enough for me.
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Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
vote loranscum.
Lies, lies, lies.
In other news, Vote CP for not being able to avoid the obvious 'vote someone for being the second vote on Day 1 in a mini' temptation. Plus, apparently he was serious about the vote, so..yeah.
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Just Saying, I'm gonna laught at U.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
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Please excuse me while I sleep in a corner until all the stupid random voting is over.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
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<Limited Clan>
I think you're already being jumpy.
Confirm vote: loran. Knowing your tells owns.
If you think the random voting stage is stupid, then do us all a favor and suggest something else.
Unvote, Vote bat.
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Since there was no night zero, nobody has any information other than what's in their role PMs. The one exception in this particular game is Charm Master, who has pretty much been cleared by the Mod.
This being the case, I think we should let Charm Master nominate someone to lynch. (Obviously we get them to claim first just in case.)
Is random voting better than that? If so, perhaps you could explain why?
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<Limited Clan>
What the hell, bateleur, you're a better player than this, you should know the folly of getting a confirmed townie to nominate a lynch - he has no more information than any of us.
The only difference between him and anyone else is that we know not to lynch him, in a day like this, with no information nor analysis to go on.
Seriously.
FoS: Bat.
Relax dude. If you don't understand you can always ask me to explain instead of ranting at me.
It's simple mathematics. CM has no way to do better than a random pick (we must assume). However, nor do the rest of us. Compare with the situation where we just stumble around until we settle on a lynch target. That's less good than random, because the Mafia amongst us exert more than zero influence over the choice.
Ooh, you wouldn't like him when he's angry. Angry like this:
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
Bate's logic is sound, although I'm probably going to end up outing power (given my crap-tacular luck), so I'll pass on deciding our target...for now.
Unvote on that end.
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And no less. With the added bonus that he's not intentionally messing with us.
It's silly to say "pick someone" at the start of the day, but once there's more to work with we could probably do worse than follow CM's lead, at least for today.
That given I'll Unvote. Enough random for me.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Loran's self-effacing posts aren't making me happy. FOS loran16, considering he's at 2 already.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
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Just to be clear, I wasn't proposing not talking and just ending the day. That would suck.
What I'm proposing is that CM picks who to lynch. And, specifically, I think this is a better way to tiebreak the usual day one stalemate than for everyone to random vote until someone makes a typo or uses a questionable turn of phrase that everyone misinterprets as scummy.
In games I've played in the initial targetting has been nothing short of abysmal. The only reason the lynch record isn't worse is because scum occasionally try unwise things like setting up falseclaims on day one and trap themselves completely unnecessarily.
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Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
Now Really this reminds me of a irc mafia strategy. with a few caveats. as far as i know, it hasn't ever been tried in a forum mafia game here.
however it is Especially flawed. this method means that we'd get little to no information from the votes on the wagon that CM chooses, and the only info we'd garner would be that of the claim of the person CM wagons. whereas vhen it comes to a normal wagon, regardless of the strength of the info that leads to the wagon, the wagon generates info on those who are involved with it.
in other words, this plan relies on a confirmed townie to make a random guess on one of the other 11 player, which would only give information on the player he chooses.
Whereas a normal wagon would give information on all of the those on the wagon and those who are reacting to it.
in other words, this plan = bad
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Loran's reactions are notable, but don't remind me of his antics from matrix or TV. I'm willing to give him a pass at least for today.
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But I'll go through it one more time for anyone who missed the last three...
No, you do not get useful "who's on the wagon" information in this situation. There's simply no need for the Mafia to direct the town's thinking at all. They can just lurk around doing exactly...
...wait, let's have that again but louder...
...EXACTLY what they would do as townies. Nothing that anyone does today can possibly advance the game for the town in any way unless someone has a day ability, because without a night zero we're all completely in the dark.
Our aim is simply to come out of this with minimum damage and to arrive at the next day with better chances. No previous game has ever contradicted this basic fact.
(Oh, and if any of you ever run a Mafia game... DO NOT have an informationless day one. They're just stupid.)
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
The argument that we won't have any reactions that way is not a good one, because CM will still have to provide a basis for his opinions, and people will have to react to those.
As for loran, don't go giving him a pass for the day already. We're less than 24 hours into the game.
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Totally agree with this, BTW.
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Like what? Previous games or maybe screen name? Gut feeling?
Following CM after he has a read (no matter how accurate really) is more than fine. I think the argument is 'following someone CM randomly picks is dumb!' versus 'Hmm we should run up the first person CM finds scummy at all up the pole to start the day b/c he isn't messing with us'
I agree with statement two. It's a cool idea to day one. Statement one is just lunacy.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
For example if you were to point out something like: Hey, there's really weird capitalization in Loran's post #32, I wonder if he's breadcrumbing a roleclaim? ...then CM (and everyone else) could go and look for themselves and form their own assessment. They wouldn't need to make assumptions about whether you were scum or not to cross-check your observation.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
So, in other words, we're doing what we always do - wait for a decent wagon to come around?
Don't get me wrong... the plan's not bad, it's just normal.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
And besides, bat, the only reason that we catch mafia at all is because they mess up (or have a cop investigation). You saying that they just need to act like townies today seems not like useful information, but directing them. If you hate informationless d1s, why aren't you advocating a NL? Then we start it how you want, right?
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
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That is so, so not true.
Sure, a lot of Mafia mess up in practice, but what makes Mafia work as a game is the pressure the game setups put on them which cause them to screw up. If you run a straight Vanilla Mafia game there is no way to catch scum except get lucky. (Hmm... who won that game? I forget now. ;))
Because my preference is for no-kill night zeros. Call me paranoid, but I doubt tonight will be no-kill.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
@CP and Bate, i highly disagree. Just having CM give his reasons for choosing the wagon target will not gather much information besides that of the target himself.
A normal day 1 wagon, while usually started on little good evidence whatsoever, allows for us to get reactions and reasonings from those on and against the wagon. Scum trying to manipulate the wagon can be caught in this way, which is how the town generally lynches scum on day 1.
Bate's plan essentially has us doing nothing really, and then CM choosing a person. After that, the only reactions/reasonings we can analyze are CM's (which is worthless as he's confirmed) and the wagon target. Which is worse than a normal wagon.
TDNMA_NR_INK
(Letters? What could you be talking about, bate?)
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Vanilla mafia has nothing to do with it. In theory, if everyone was excellent at mafia, the mafia should almost always win. (Assuming 12 people and 2 scum (below what is normally played here), if everyone had no tells, lynches would be random. This results in the mafia winning 3 times out of 4, or 26.56%) Of course if there's one person who is good at being scum, they're going to win a vanilla mafia game.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Thats an interesting proposal Bat.
I think that at the least it would prove interesting.
And i disagree about the lack of tells; peoples reactions to this idea, peoples reactions to CM's choice, Because, what would probably happen, and my belief of what SHOULD happen is.
Cm nominates someone, then we focus on THAT person. \
Questioning them, extracting a soft claim, Discussing the soft claim and getting the town to weigh in.
This would provide ALOT of information, and give the day a shot in the ass, as well as give stuff to analyze later for anyone whose interested.
On the other hand, bateleur's suggestion of this makes me think he's either confident we'll go along with it (and considering the reactions, if he's scum, he'll probably back down from it soon), or he's honestly trying to help (town). Probably the latter.
The person I'm most interested in at this moment is actually Rafk. His first post seems rather offhandish.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
And CM, I was not intending to insult you as a mafia player (though you're overestimating your role in a certain gimmick's lynch - Ged falseclaimed incorrectly without noticing you'd already claimed - if you hadn't blown the whistle you'd be a worse mafia player than coiledflame was...) but just reiterating that you're just a townie day 1, with no additional info, just like the rest of us. The only difference is that we know you're not trying to mislead the town.
To be honest, assuming that your scum-reading abilities are so good that you could pick out a scum D1 with no info seems a tad overconfident to me.
He was correct in not taking Bat up on his offer.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Greenwood*, Random 3, Medieval, Cat, 1001 Nights, Kung Fu, and MK lynched scum first.
Newb 15, Matrix, Redux, and Blizzard (and maybe Cold War, but no one really knew better) lynched townies first.
*Well, if bateleur didn't lead people astray. Hmmm.
That means scum are lynched first over 50% of the time. And now we essentially want to make day one into a random lynch. The target may be generally considered suspicious, but the fact remains that we put all the fault/credit onto one player, and not those on the wagon.
As for "we don't want the scum leading us astray!" line that's being thrown around, no. The scum cannot lead us that far astray because a) they don't have enough people, as long as we're not stupid enough to blindly follow random people and b) they're not going to tarnish their record so badly as to only push the town towards townies and away from scum, or, if they do, we have easy lynches later. That's the entire *idea* of having voting records, even on an informationless day one.
You were seriously thinking about voting him for that?
Unvote
By all means, go ahead.
Salvation Mafia Clan
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last updated 03/23/11