I've heard $5, I've heard $25, and I think I've heard everything in between. Sullivan wrote an article about it just yesterday, and he thinks it might become as big as Tarmogoyf.
I don't think it'll be anywhere near as popular as Goyf because of the double-red mana cost, but it is a great card. Thoughts on it's final price?
Regardless of how good the card is, it really depends on if a deck will surface for it to be used in; for example, Gaddock Teeg is a great card, but it plunged from $20 to $9 when people realized that there were no T2 decks suitable for it. I think it's too early to start guessing. I got mine for $8 personally and I'm feeling that's a fair price; if they drop lower, I won't feel too bad.
Pacifism doesn't screw it over, because it's not only an offensive creature. He fixes your draws, which is what really wins games. Even if it's only around one turn, if it fixes that draw from being a land to being a spell, it could win the game for you. The longer it is around, the better it gets. Plus, it has amazing synergy with GG, which can protect it from being killed. In the deck I'm testing, I often sacrifice my third land to GG to make it a 4/4 to protect it; my deck only has 7 cards with CC 3 and none higher, so it works fine.
When people get over the second ability and pay attention to the first one, he'll be much more popular.
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Standard: RSupa' Fly Crusha' SlighR BSuicide Black B
i'm thinkning they'll be around $5-$7, after all the hype dies down. right now, i've seen them fetching $10 and more. and $26 for a playset's not too shabby at all.
I think of it like Troll Ascetic, in that it isn't splashable into every deck, but is still very powerful, so likely to settle around $8-10 depending on how popular R/x decks become.
It will see more play in the older formats, so it won't be that pricey (if you can combo it with grim lavamancer to both clean your draws and fuel the wizard you can do mean things). I'm thinking seven to ten euro where I am (belgium). No idea what it'll cost in the USA.
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7 EUR = 10.2431 USD
Well, if you think it literally is worth nothing, feel free to send any of them you open to people in this thread who actually will use them.
Seriously, even if it's not as good as everyone's making it out to be, it's going to see SOME play. Crap commons aren't worth ZERO, let alone playable rares. The minimum on a playable rare is probably $.50-1. I can't see this falling below $5, just because of its uniqueness.
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as good as advertised, ppl who make claims of it being "0" are the lazy ones who can't look past its 'downside'...i can see it leveling from anywhere between 12-15...it's beefy and a draw fixer...what is there not to like? heck...u can go for a old fashioned fire/ice build and put crusher plus a bunch of counters and protect.
Imagine this deck
4 countryside crusher
32 counterspells
slap the crusher down and u'r automatically gonna draw a counterspell a turn to protect it...yea...all theory but you get the picture
as good as advertised, ppl who make claims of it being "0" are the lazy ones who can't look past its 'downside'...i can see it leveling from anywhere between 12-15...it's beefy and a draw fixer...what is there not to like? heck...u can go for a old fashioned fire/ice build and put crusher plus a bunch of counters and protect.
Imagine this deck
4 countryside crusher
32 counterspells
slap the crusher down and u'r automatically gonna draw a counterspell a turn to protect it...yea...all theory but you get the picture
Hm... no, that doesn't quite work. Counterspell decks like to keep drawing lands. Otherwise, eventually your opponent gets enough mana to play more spell than you can afford to counter. Besides, in that deck, what do you do if you don't draw a Crusher? You have no way of winning, and your deck is just half lands half counters (approx), so you just ineffectually counter a few things before you get overrun by something that slips through.
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well..just like the original psychatog decks, you don't really drop him early until u'r ready to protect and beat. Of course that rough deck i proposed isn't exactly serious but it is essentially what psychatog did. Don't forget, blue has ways to draw cards as well. I believe, like tog, crusher has the ability to win on its own if you can protect it.
hey, dunno if u tried but both crusher and colossus not having trample really hurts them. I know goyf is a dirty card but bramblewood paragon has more synergy with the crusher and colossus
The people saying it's worth 0 are control players. The control player says "Bah, just another aggro card. Everyone knows the top deck in any format is the best control deck, as it just counters whatever you do." To them it is worth nothing, because CC is a decidedly aggro card. However, for the aggro player, it's worth very much. It's all about fixing your draws, and the fact that it gets big and beefy as well makes it very good.
I put it at about $5 because people are going to still wanna try the 36 land 4 Countryside Crusher deck. Plus the cards not too bad its not too good either.
If you don't get any lands into the grave, he's basically a Trained Armodon. And there's no guarantee you're going to get lands. In an aggro deck, you're probably running 20 or 21 lands, meaning one out of every three cards is a land. Presuming you kept a hand with two land and drew one before dropping the Crusher, you've got about eighteen left. If you drop him on turn three, that makes 18/50 on the draw and 18/51 on the play, or less than 50% chance of the card on top being a land.
By this math, he gets a +1/+1 counter every other turn.
Presuming he's going to be beefy just because he can is like taking it for granted that Spoils of the Vault will get you the card you need in the top three every time. Go by the averages, not the dreamboat scenario.
That said, I'd rather have him in a sligh deck than not have him. He's a good man. But it's not like he's undercosted fatty fat fat. The jewel of the card is the guarantee of drawing nonland cards. And since sligh is sort of a ubiquitous archetype (whether it's top tier or Scrubby Bubbles rogue), I'd say he'll settle around $5-10. Right now, he's overpriced.
If you don't get any lands into the grave, he's basically a Trained Armodon. And there's no guarantee you're going to get lands. In an aggro deck, you're probably running 20 or 21 lands, meaning one out of every three cards is a land. Presuming you kept a hand with two land and drew one before dropping the Crusher, you've got about eighteen left. If you drop him on turn three, that makes 18/50 on the draw and 18/51 on the play, or less than 50% chance of the card on top being a land.
By this math, he gets a +1/+1 counter every other turn.
Presuming he's going to be beefy just because he can is like taking it for granted that Spoils of the Vault will get you the card you need in the top three every time. Go by the averages, not the dreamboat scenario.
That said, I'd rather have him in a sligh deck than not have him. He's a good man. But it's not like he's undercosted fatty fat fat. The jewel of the card is the guarantee of drawing nonland cards. And since sligh is sort of a ubiquitous archetype (whether it's top tier or Scrubby Bubbles rogue), I'd say he'll settle around $5-10. Right now, he's overpriced.
Except given a 50% chance of the top card being a land, there's still an ~50% chance of the SECOND card being a land as well. And then a ~50% chance of the NEXT one being a land as well. If we take the limit of this, he's going to average about 1 +1/+1 counter every turn.
And that's assuming that discarding land from the top of your deck is the only way land is getting into your graveyard. If you follow the crusher up with something that blows up a lot of your lands, discards several from your hand, or mills you significantly, the crusher could very quickly grow to epic proportions.
If nothing else, he definitely has a place in Aggro Loam. Life from the Loam into three lands from the grave, discard two of them to Seismic Assault, cycle the third to dredge Loam (discarding up to three lands from the top of the deck), recast loam, discard three lands to the Assault is 10 damage and an extra 6-9 counters on the crusher.
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Except given a 50% chance of the top card being a land, there's still an ~50% chance of the SECOND card being a land as well. And then a ~50% chance of the NEXT one being a land as well. If we take the limit of this, he's going to average about 1 +1/+1 counter every turn.
You're going to take the limit of it? Ha! Assuming he stayed in play literally for infinity turns, yes, you'd be correct.
Speak from a practical standpoint, sir. Work with about five or six turns of effectiveness, because that's all he should be in play for.
And that's assuming that discarding land from the top of your deck is the only way land is getting into your graveyard. If you follow the crusher up with something that blows up a lot of your lands, discards several from your hand, or mills you significantly, the crusher could very quickly grow to epic proportions.
He does not have shroud, nor evasion. A Bitterblossom stops your epic beast, as does any non-toughness-related removal in the format. If you sacrifice your lands and he runs into a Venser, you're probably going to lose. Sacrificing your entire board to make one big creature without evasion or shroud is folly unless you have no other play, and that's why people don't randomly dump their entire board to get a Gargadon into play.
If nothing else, he definitely has a place in Aggro Loam. Life from the Loam into three lands from the grave, discard two of them to Seismic Assault, cycle the third to dredge Loam (discarding up to three lands from the top of the deck), recast loam, discard three lands to the Assault is 10 damage and an extra 6-9 counters on the crusher.
Yeah, because that deck is built for getting lands into the grave. You know what else is a 3cc creature that's good in decks like that? Terravore. How much do Terravores go for? MOTL is saying $7.
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I don't think it'll be anywhere near as popular as Goyf because of the double-red mana cost, but it is a great card. Thoughts on it's final price?
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goyf is just crazy. crusher basically says you need to curve out at 3. and if it gets super popular pacifism like effects start to see play.
then you are screwed.
Pacifism doesn't screw it over, because it's not only an offensive creature. He fixes your draws, which is what really wins games. Even if it's only around one turn, if it fixes that draw from being a land to being a spell, it could win the game for you. The longer it is around, the better it gets. Plus, it has amazing synergy with GG, which can protect it from being killed. In the deck I'm testing, I often sacrifice my third land to GG to make it a 4/4 to protect it; my deck only has 7 cards with CC 3 and none higher, so it works fine.
When people get over the second ability and pay attention to the first one, he'll be much more popular.
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He's also an amazing card that can go x2 into various decks. (You don't have to drop him on turn 3... You can wait to clean up late game draws.)
He cannot fit into every deck that runs red. Not only is RRa definite commitment, but some decks won't want to cap their land draws.
He is a creature, so he's more fragile than a sorcery or instant.
I put him and the Colossus on even footing, right below a card like Damnation. $10-12.
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Well, if you think it literally is worth nothing, feel free to send any of them you open to people in this thread who actually will use them.
Seriously, even if it's not as good as everyone's making it out to be, it's going to see SOME play. Crap commons aren't worth ZERO, let alone playable rares. The minimum on a playable rare is probably $.50-1. I can't see this falling below $5, just because of its uniqueness.
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Imagine this deck
4 countryside crusher
32 counterspells
slap the crusher down and u'r automatically gonna draw a counterspell a turn to protect it...yea...all theory but you get the picture
Hm... no, that doesn't quite work. Counterspell decks like to keep drawing lands. Otherwise, eventually your opponent gets enough mana to play more spell than you can afford to counter. Besides, in that deck, what do you do if you don't draw a Crusher? You have no way of winning, and your deck is just half lands half counters (approx), so you just ineffectually counter a few things before you get overrun by something that slips through.
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It is awful, really.
Are ya insane? The card fits right into any zoo or r/g aggro deck and works pretty nicely with turn 2 goyf, turn 3 crusher, turn 4 terravore
By this math, he gets a +1/+1 counter every other turn.
Presuming he's going to be beefy just because he can is like taking it for granted that Spoils of the Vault will get you the card you need in the top three every time. Go by the averages, not the dreamboat scenario.
That said, I'd rather have him in a sligh deck than not have him. He's a good man. But it's not like he's undercosted fatty fat fat. The jewel of the card is the guarantee of drawing nonland cards. And since sligh is sort of a ubiquitous archetype (whether it's top tier or Scrubby Bubbles rogue), I'd say he'll settle around $5-10. Right now, he's overpriced.
Except given a 50% chance of the top card being a land, there's still an ~50% chance of the SECOND card being a land as well. And then a ~50% chance of the NEXT one being a land as well. If we take the limit of this, he's going to average about 1 +1/+1 counter every turn.
And that's assuming that discarding land from the top of your deck is the only way land is getting into your graveyard. If you follow the crusher up with something that blows up a lot of your lands, discards several from your hand, or mills you significantly, the crusher could very quickly grow to epic proportions.
If nothing else, he definitely has a place in Aggro Loam. Life from the Loam into three lands from the grave, discard two of them to Seismic Assault, cycle the third to dredge Loam (discarding up to three lands from the top of the deck), recast loam, discard three lands to the Assault is 10 damage and an extra 6-9 counters on the crusher.
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You're going to take the limit of it? Ha! Assuming he stayed in play literally for infinity turns, yes, you'd be correct.
Speak from a practical standpoint, sir. Work with about five or six turns of effectiveness, because that's all he should be in play for.
He does not have shroud, nor evasion. A Bitterblossom stops your epic beast, as does any non-toughness-related removal in the format. If you sacrifice your lands and he runs into a Venser, you're probably going to lose. Sacrificing your entire board to make one big creature without evasion or shroud is folly unless you have no other play, and that's why people don't randomly dump their entire board to get a Gargadon into play.
Yeah, because that deck is built for getting lands into the grave. You know what else is a 3cc creature that's good in decks like that? Terravore. How much do Terravores go for? MOTL is saying $7.