Dead: 7. JodoYodo, Red Spy and Blue Marshal Assassin, Mafia, was lynched day one 4. iLord, Townie Red Colonel, was killed night one 5. Kami of Lunacy, Townie Blue Lieutenant, was lynched day two 1. Alx2 (replacing Unstable Marionette), Townie Red Scout, was lynched day three 11. RafaelK, Red Miner and Bomb Diffuser, was killed night three 12. Chimpanzee, Townie Red Marshal, was lynched day four. 10. wo bu YA0 (replacing Man Bear Pig), Townie Blue Sergeant, was killed night four 6. Cubus, Mafia Blue Captain, was lynched day five
Rules
(Stolen from Mr.Stoofer)
[01] Votes must be in bold. If you do not bold your vote, it will not be counted.
[02] Please be attentive and unvote, if necessary, before casting a new vote. This is not required, but I’d appreciate it.
[03] Lynching will require a simple majority of votes. Once a player has reached the necessary majority, their pleas are useless and any attempts to unvote will be unheeded. Feel free to post in twilight, though.
[04] You may vote: no lynch – majority votes of this kind are necessary to end the day without a death.
[05] If a deadline is reached with no majority, the day will end without a lynch.
[06] The game is not to be discussed outside the thread unless your role specifically states that you may do so – and then only at night.
[07] When I set a day deadline, the deadline lasts until I actually lock the thread.
[08] Once your death scene has been posted, you’re dead. Stop typing. Not even a “Bah!” post, please. Save it for after the game is over.
[09] No small or invisible text. Don’t edit/delete previously submitted posts either.
[10] Don’t quote any PMs from me. If you do, I will destroy you.
[11] If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you – if you do not submit a choice to me, I’ll make it for you and you won’t like it.
[12] If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
[13] Unlike other mods I am fallible. Please point out any mistakes I make gently. In particular, if I post a vote count that does not accurately reflect your vote, it is your responsibility to correct me. If you don’t your vote may be treated as it appears in the vote count.
[14] If you have any questions at all, please PM me or post the question in the thread.
[15] Remember, it’s a game and it’s supposed to be fun. Be nice to your fellow players and your mod. I have zero tolerance for abusive posts.
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What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Anyways, who feels like color-claiming? *strokes chin thoughtfully*
I think the flags should claim.:p
I have to admit, I'm kind of at a loss for how the "capture the flag" win condition is going to work. It would be fairly stupid for the blues or reds to win via a mafia kill, so I'm assuming that "capturing the flag" involves actually lynching the opposing flag. Which makes it so that the flags actually want to be nightkilled?
But it seems almost impossible for a flag to get lynched, unless one side strongly outnumbers the other.
Do the mafia have the ability to win with a side? I have to say, if there's any game where I don't see room for a third party, it's this one. If a blue mafia dies, for example, should the reds start worrying about being specifically targeted?
Okay, thinking about all of this, I think I support a color claim. Best case scenario is that a hefty chunk of townies have a much better chance of winning if they can convince the mafia to help them out. Worst case scenario is that the mafia don't care which side wins, and they target the players most likely to be flags, but I don't judge that to be very likely, and we can take steps to avoid outing the flags for a pretty good while.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Or is there even a mafia? Maybe the highest ranked number of each side is a vig, or something, and we have to try to target the high ranks? That would be very, very different from regular mafia, but I don't think it's impossible. In that case, a color claim would probably be very desirable, anyway, so it probably doesn't matter.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well, if they weren't, I don't see how they could be captured without having some public, specialized rules for this game, and such does not appear in the first two posts.
Can you think of a way for there to be flags in this game without them being players?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well, if they weren't, I don't see how they could be captured without having some public, specialized rules for this game, and such does not appear in the first two posts.
Can you think of a way for there to be flags in this game without them being players?
Would you consider it likely or unlikely that this game comes with a specialized rules set? Why or why not?
I don't see why this game couldn't have specialized rules (with the exception of specialty stuff.), but I think that having specialized rules that the mod doesn't tell us about is improbable. CP's idea that each flag is probably a player seems the most likely possiblity.
I don't see what's wrong with color-claiming. It doesn't seem like the scum are a specific color, and I don't see what harm color claiming could do. At worst it tells the scum who to go after if the sides start becoming skewed. It would just give us more information to work with on a nightless Day 1.
Any ideas on the order? My recommendation is for the newer players to go first, as we are more apt to make a mistake as scum.
Quote from CP »
Or is there even a mafia? Maybe the highest ranked number of each side is a vig, or something, and we have to try to target the high ranks? That would be very, very different from regular mafia, but I don't think it's impossible. In that case, a color claim would probably be very desirable, anyway, so it probably doesn't matter.
This is definitely suspicious. Unvote, Vote Carrion Pigeons.
Sigh I think it's way too early to start pointing fingers at people making speculation, especially when we're in a not-completely-clear-game.
Something about the speculation doesn't click with me. Hmmm. This is odd...JodoYodo, do you think that there's anything wrong with the post I quoted in #15?
Given the fact that most people seem to be able to win in a way beyond killing off the opposing faction, I'd say it's likely this game has a specialized rules set.
Given the fact that most people seem to be able to win in a way beyond killing off the opposing faction, I'd say it's likely this game has a specialized rules set.
There's probably some different roles and win conditions, but I don't think that there's anything on the plane of a completely different rules set (i.e. a field and moving around or "attacking".) If there was, LFR would've told us.
I wasn't really in Cold War, I just replaced the person who was about to get lyunched to let you take the endgame. I lived less than an RL week.
color claim: I'm for, but with reservations. it couldn't be that easy...
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What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well, you're right. I was thinking about how I might design the game, and forgot that my role PM specifically mentions the scum.
That's an extremely short time to forget, especially for someone thinking about how they might design the game, as that could only have been based off what you know from your PM.
I'll leave my vote where it is while I think about that.
LFR, I know this probably isn't possible, but could you enlighten us about the capture the flag thing?
Additionally, I too am in support of a color-claim.
Well, it does mention scum, but it doesn't specifically mention mafia, and 'scum' could very well mean 'all players of the opposing color' in this context. In fact, I just don't see how a mafia team could fit in this game.
Then it would say all of the opposing color. Which it didn't.
Quote from Cubus »
I see a few possibilities for the setup
1) All town players are of a certain color, and all scum players of the other.
2) There's a red scum group and a blue scum group, or the scum group is a mixture of colors.
3) There is no scum group, and the game is actually red vs. blue, like normal stratego.
1) Highly unlikely. Win Con's would've been get rid of _____ team, not get rid of scums for one reason.
2) Most likely possibility.
3) Highly unlikely. Role PM state to get rid of scum. Didn't say opposing team. There must be Mafia amongst us.
Quote from Cubus »
I actually thought this setup was like the third option, but there's someone that made me think there actually is a mafia. It was iLord, and it was because of the following:
It's not inside info; it's a logical conclusion. See above.
Quote from Cubus »
I don't feel like color-claiming. Not at all. If the town consists of multiple colors, and a townie claims a color, townies of the opposing color would like to lynch the person, regardless of that person's traditional alignment. Not only that, but if we color claim, and we lynch someone today, the team of the opposing color is probably more powerful, and would want to eliminate everyone of the other color to ensure a win. I'd rather win with the town, and the town as a whole. Whether you win or lose with your color, unless the setup is like option 1, is much like a coin flip right now.
If we keep on lynching townies, won't the mafia win? If the town randomlly lynches in a 12-person game, (I'm not sure though) doesn't the mafia have a greater chance of winning? If we assume that it's setup 2), won't the town be basically randomly lynching?
Quote from CP »
Well, you're right. I was thinking about how I might design the game, and forgot that my role PM specifically mentions the scum.
I have to say it did generate some interesting responses, though.
I actually believe CP as he used the term scum before anyone else said that it was in our Win Con. Unvote.
This makes me look at JodoYodo, who reprimanded me for pointing fingers so early. I believe that we should start looking there. Vote JodoYodo. I wish CP had just said he understood, so we could just try the same test against JodoYodo.
Why would it? If there isn't actually a mafia, which I still think is a possibility, I don't think LfR would've made it that obvious.
Let me ask you this; Are there any pieces that would be considered scum in Stratego? (Interestingly, I've never actually played the American version. I have a Chinese version that's similar though) Would LFR not want us to know what our Win Condition was? I find it highly unlikely that scum measn other color and LFR just assumed for us to figure that out.
Quote from Cubus »
How exactly is it a logical conclusion? A conclusion is a judgment you make because of arguments. And I don't see why it's logical either. You defend yourself by saying your point is obvious, but I think it's not.
If the two teams just had to get rid of each other, our Win Con would say so. Instead of scum.
Quote from Cubus »
Perhaps the mafia will win, but in this scenario, it's more likely one of the colors will win. If the flags are actual players, at least.
I see what you mean. I'll have to think about the color claim a little bit more; I don't want the game decided by a coin flip. But you forgot that the scum can nightkill as well. I'm not sure how that factors in, though. It mostly depends on the scum Win Con.
No, there aren't. But red and blue are enemies, so from a red piece's point of view, blue pieces could be considered scum.
Why would the Win Con specifically state scum, instead of just the team you need to kill?
Quote from Cubus »
How do you know? And would a game with two perfectly equal sides that have to wipe each other out, and know so beforehand, be even remotely interesting? I think that if there isn't actually a mafia group, it would make the game much more interesting if players don't know so.
Also, the part of my post you quoted here wasn't about the win conditions, it was about the fact that you somehow seemed to know that the mafia consists of multiple colors. And to directly quote you:
It would be quite unlikely that the town doesn't understand their own win condition. What you see as interesting, I see as unfun. The win condition would at least specifiy that members of the other team are scum.
My assumption was based on the fact that my win condition did not specify the need of a certain color team dead; hence mafia don't seem to be of the same color.
Quote from Cubus »
What do you think the mafia win con would be?
I thought about this for a bit and I've come to some conclusions:
1. If there is one mafia with people from both teams, their Win Con would probably be the normal one.
2. If there are two mafias, one on each team, then their Win Con would be similar to ours, except instead of needing the scum dead, they would need to outnumber the town. (I think it would make sense to assume that they would have the flag Win Con as well.)
I don't feel like color-claiming. Not at all. If the town consists of multiple colors, and a townie claims a color, townies of the opposing color would like to lynch the person, regardless of that person's traditional alignment. Not only that, but if we color claim, and we lynch someone today, the team of the opposing color is probably more powerful, and would want to eliminate everyone of the other color to ensure a win. I'd rather win with the town, and the town as a whole. Wether you win or lose with your color, unless the setup is like option 1, is much like a coin flip right now.
Bravo. This is why I am very strongly opposed to a mass color-claim, also.
I would simply like for one person of each color to signal their color, to confirm the scum are spread throughout both.
Also, I would like to know why those of you who supported the mass-color claim were interested in doing so.
I'm red. I'm still considering whether or not color claiming is worth it or not. Cubus's reasoning may or may not apply depending on the scum's Win Con so no one else red claim.
I was in support of the claim to get info on whether the town was spread across two colors. As two people have claimed two different colors, I think thats all the information we need.
Given the fact that most people seem to be able to win in a way beyond killing off the opposing faction, I'd say it's likely this game has a specialized rules set.
I'll go out for a color claim.
I'd like to see the two of you explain your rationales for supporting the color-claim.
At the moment, I'm about 90% on the following list of folks being townie:
I'm pretty confident in those reads, but I'm not at liberty to discuss my highly classified methods of analysis. But if/when I die, pay attention to this.
From my perspective that leaves us with seven lynch candidates, which already puts us in the realm of 50% lynch accuracy assuming 3 to 4 scum.
Charm
Rafk
Kami of Lunacy
Jodo
Ged
unstable
Chimp
A few of these I'm already suspecting more than others, and I expect I'll be able to clear a few more before long.
Thoughts so far:
The fact that CP caught his mistake without much clues about what his mistake was offsets the scumminess. It could have been a good guess (if he thought about it enough that was the most likely thing in that post to be wrong) but I find it less likely that he guessed correctly as mafia than that he already knew.
I really don't like JodoYodo's response and only post.
I find how Az completely ignored it somewhat suspect and I'd like to know why he did.
iLord has some serious townie points. Unless the mafia have the town win-con in there pm's he's got to be town.
Now for speculation- Flavorfully it would make sense for the flag to either be a player or an object since during the game the flag looks just like a regular piece, however it is unable to move in any way. Mechanically, this would be a really odd game if the flag is a player since the game could end at any moment assuming capture means lynch. If the flag isn't a player and/or capture doesn't mean lynch, then there has to be some other mechanic within this game that isn't publicly known.
I don't really see how red- or blue-hunting scum inherently worse than scum-hunting, and so I'm still in favor of a color claim. But I'm happy for it to wait.
Vote Raf. That might look OMGUS, but I doubt that Raf would have failed to realize that I, as scum, could only have said what I did as a gambit, and that it would have been insanely stupid to risk my life on a gambit like that without trying to get a hint of what the town's WC is. Raf was voting me because it was easy to vote for me, not because my behavior had any sensible rationale as scum behavior.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
It is possible that mass color claiming would allow the mafia to game the town against itself. Assuming that the town is in fact split, which makes the most sense based on pm wording, we would turn against each other, but since we don't exactly know what capturing the flag means the mafia could end up with an easy opportunity to win while we're killing each other without a definite goal. Also, assuming an even color split, every lynch would be a total deadlock divided by color, which would ultimately give mafia control of the lynch since they can collaborate as a unified group even if they are divided by color.
this game obviously has quite a bit of things to consider. obviously the town wins be removing the scum, but the AWC makes me think there's something akin to DotA mafia where a team wins if they collect something (in this case, lynch the flag/flag-bearer?)
also, I notice that random phase was really short, or else I'm not good at seeing where it ends.
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Now for speculation- Flavorfully it would make sense for the flag to either be a player or an object since during the game the flag looks just like a regular piece, however it is unable to move in any way. Mechanically, this would be a really odd game if the flag is a player since the game could end at any moment assuming capture means lynch. If the flag isn't a player and/or capture doesn't mean lynch, then there has to be some other mechanic within this game that isn't publicly known.
It could mean that the town has to be very careful with the lynch.
Quote from Chimp »
It is possible that mass color claiming would allow the mafia to game the town against itself. Assuming that the town is in fact split, which makes the most sense based on pm wording, we would turn against each other, but since we don't exactly know what capturing the flag means the mafia could end up with an easy opportunity to win while we're killing each other without a definite goal. Also, assuming an even color split, every lynch would be a total deadlock divided by color, which would ultimately give mafia control of the lynch since they can collaborate as a unified group even if they are divided by color.
After some consideration, I think that it's highly likely that each mafia member has their main Win Con, plus the flag Win Con. Hence, it would still be a deadlock. It would be way overpowered to have an undivided 4 mafia group in a 12-player game. (I'm assuming 4 because it would be broken if one team controled the vote.)
The people I'm looking at right now are JodoYodo and Azraeal. Azrael is quite the experienced player, and it's pretty suspicious that he didn't point out CP's mistake.
Everyone keeps talking about CP's mistake... What exactly did he do?
Additionally, I am against the idea that a flag would be player. Assuming this follows actual Stratego rules, I believe the flag can't move, and so would not be a player.
Everyone keeps talking about CP's mistake... What exactly did he do?
Additionally, I am against the idea that a flag would be player. Assuming this follows actual Stratego rules, I believe the flag can't move, and so would not be a player.
Scummy...Unvote, Vote Man Bear Pig.
Just because it couldn't move, doesn't mean it's not a player. You expect us to capture (in a way we don't know how) a flag (that we don't know what or where it is)?
What I'm trying to say is that flags cannot move in Stratego. So, it would make sense that the flag would not be a player. However, this could very well not be the case, as it would make using that win-con very hard.
Everyone keeps talking about CP's mistake... What exactly did he do?
Additionally, I am against the idea that a flag would be player. Assuming this follows actual Stratego rules, I believe the flag can't move, and so would not be a player.
Quote from MBP »
What I'm trying to say is that flags cannot move in Stratego. So, it would make sense that the flag would not be a player. However, this could very well not be the case, as it would make using that win-con very hard.
Do you or do you not think that the flag is a player? If you do, why did you change your mind?
Also, I would like to know why those of you who supported the mass-color claim were interested in doing so.
I didn't see any harm in it, so I just thought 'why not?'. I hadn't put any thought into the setup yet and just assumed that one color would be town and one color would be mafia. I supported the claim because it sounded like what happened in Verona, where the mafia weren't sure what factions were town and what factions were scum.
Thinking about it again, that makes no sense at all. Ah well. I blame 12 hours of straight chess.
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Setting up thread. Please do not post.
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Have fun!
LFR
Player List:
3. Charm_Master3125
8. Ged
9. Azrael
Dead:
7. JodoYodo, Red Spy and Blue Marshal Assassin, Mafia, was lynched day one
4. iLord, Townie Red Colonel, was killed night one
5. Kami of Lunacy, Townie Blue Lieutenant, was lynched day two
1. Alx2 (replacing Unstable Marionette), Townie Red Scout, was lynched day three
11. RafaelK, Red Miner and Bomb Diffuser, was killed night three
12. Chimpanzee, Townie Red Marshal, was lynched day four.
10. wo bu YA0 (replacing Man Bear Pig), Townie Blue Sergeant, was killed night four
6. Cubus, Mafia Blue Captain, was lynched day five
(Stolen from Mr.Stoofer)
[01] Votes must be in bold. If you do not bold your vote, it will not be counted.
[02] Please be attentive and unvote, if necessary, before casting a new vote. This is not required, but I’d appreciate it.
[03] Lynching will require a simple majority of votes. Once a player has reached the necessary majority, their pleas are useless and any attempts to unvote will be unheeded. Feel free to post in twilight, though.
[04] You may vote: no lynch – majority votes of this kind are necessary to end the day without a death.
[05] If a deadline is reached with no majority, the day will end without a lynch.
[06] The game is not to be discussed outside the thread unless your role specifically states that you may do so – and then only at night.
[07] When I set a day deadline, the deadline lasts until I actually lock the thread.
[08] Once your death scene has been posted, you’re dead. Stop typing. Not even a “Bah!” post, please. Save it for after the game is over.
[09] No small or invisible text. Don’t edit/delete previously submitted posts either.
[10] Don’t quote any PMs from me. If you do, I will destroy you.
[11] If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you – if you do not submit a choice to me, I’ll make it for you and you won’t like it.
[12] If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
[13] Unlike other mods I am fallible. Please point out any mistakes I make gently. In particular, if I post a vote count that does not accurately reflect your vote, it is your responsibility to correct me. If you don’t your vote may be treated as it appears in the vote count.
[14] If you have any questions at all, please PM me or post the question in the thread.
[15] Remember, it’s a game and it’s supposed to be fun. Be nice to your fellow players and your mod. I have zero tolerance for abusive posts.
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Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Vote Arim for WIFOMing the town too muchVote Pod for vigging the copOh, right...
Vote JodoYodo
transforming us cruelly into marionettes.
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Anyways, who feels like color-claiming? *strokes chin thoughtfully*
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I think the flags should claim.:p
I have to admit, I'm kind of at a loss for how the "capture the flag" win condition is going to work. It would be fairly stupid for the blues or reds to win via a mafia kill, so I'm assuming that "capturing the flag" involves actually lynching the opposing flag. Which makes it so that the flags actually want to be nightkilled?
But it seems almost impossible for a flag to get lynched, unless one side strongly outnumbers the other.
Do the mafia have the ability to win with a side? I have to say, if there's any game where I don't see room for a third party, it's this one. If a blue mafia dies, for example, should the reds start worrying about being specifically targeted?
Okay, thinking about all of this, I think I support a color claim. Best case scenario is that a hefty chunk of townies have a much better chance of winning if they can convince the mafia to help them out. Worst case scenario is that the mafia don't care which side wins, and they target the players most likely to be flags, but I don't judge that to be very likely, and we can take steps to avoid outing the flags for a pretty good while.
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How do you know they're even characters? *eyebrow*
Can you think of a way for there to be flags in this game without them being players?
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Would you consider it likely or unlikely that this game comes with a specialized rules set? Why or why not?
Same question applies to everyone in the thread.
I don't see what's wrong with color-claiming. It doesn't seem like the scum are a specific color, and I don't see what harm color claiming could do. At worst it tells the scum who to go after if the sides start becoming skewed. It would just give us more information to work with on a nightless Day 1.
Any ideas on the order? My recommendation is for the newer players to go first, as we are more apt to make a mistake as scum.
This is definitely suspicious. Unvote, Vote Carrion Pigeons.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Sigh I think it's way too early to start pointing fingers at people making speculation, especially when we're in a not-completely-clear-game.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Something about the speculation doesn't click with me. Hmmm. This is odd...JodoYodo, do you think that there's anything wrong with the post I quoted in #15?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
transforming us cruelly into marionettes.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
LFR was in with Cold War mafia with me, wasn't he? Was anybody else?
I'll go out for a color claim.
There's probably some different roles and win conditions, but I don't think that there's anything on the plane of a completely different rules set (i.e. a field and moving around or "attacking".) If there was, LFR would've told us.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Until then, FOS the mafia.
3CB and 4CB5CB!color claim: I'm for, but with reservations. it couldn't be that easy...
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Well, you're right. I was thinking about how I might design the game, and forgot that my role PM specifically mentions the scum.
I have to say it did generate some interesting responses, though.
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I was expecting to see one when I opened this thread. I'm not answering why, and I find it interesting that you'd even ask.
Good point. Excellent point. vote CP.
I agree.
That's an extremely short time to forget, especially for someone thinking about how they might design the game, as that could only have been based off what you know from your PM.
I'll leave my vote where it is while I think about that.
Additionally, I too am in support of a color-claim.
Then it would say all of the opposing color. Which it didn't.
1) Highly unlikely. Win Con's would've been get rid of _____ team, not get rid of scums for one reason.
2) Most likely possibility.
3) Highly unlikely. Role PM state to get rid of scum. Didn't say opposing team. There must be Mafia amongst us.
It's not inside info; it's a logical conclusion. See above.
If we keep on lynching townies, won't the mafia win? If the town randomlly lynches in a 12-person game, (I'm not sure though) doesn't the mafia have a greater chance of winning? If we assume that it's setup 2), won't the town be basically randomly lynching?
I actually believe CP as he used the term scum before anyone else said that it was in our Win Con. Unvote.
This makes me look at JodoYodo, who reprimanded me for pointing fingers so early. I believe that we should start looking there. Vote JodoYodo. I wish CP had just said he understood, so we could just try the same test against JodoYodo.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Let me ask you this; Are there any pieces that would be considered scum in Stratego? (Interestingly, I've never actually played the American version. I have a Chinese version that's similar though) Would LFR not want us to know what our Win Condition was? I find it highly unlikely that scum measn other color and LFR just assumed for us to figure that out.
If the two teams just had to get rid of each other, our Win Con would say so. Instead of scum.
I see what you mean. I'll have to think about the color claim a little bit more; I don't want the game decided by a coin flip. But you forgot that the scum can nightkill as well. I'm not sure how that factors in, though. It mostly depends on the scum Win Con.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Why would the Win Con specifically state scum, instead of just the team you need to kill?
It would be quite unlikely that the town doesn't understand their own win condition. What you see as interesting, I see as unfun. The win condition would at least specifiy that members of the other team are scum.
My assumption was based on the fact that my win condition did not specify the need of a certain color team dead; hence mafia don't seem to be of the same color.
I thought about this for a bit and I've come to some conclusions:
1. If there is one mafia with people from both teams, their Win Con would probably be the normal one.
2. If there are two mafias, one on each team, then their Win Con would be similar to ours, except instead of needing the scum dead, they would need to outnumber the town. (I think it would make sense to assume that they would have the flag Win Con as well.)
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Bravo. This is why I am very strongly opposed to a mass color-claim, also.
I would simply like for one person of each color to signal their color, to confirm the scum are spread throughout both.
Also, I would like to know why those of you who supported the mass-color claim were interested in doing so.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I'd like to see the two of you explain your rationales for supporting the color-claim.
At the moment, I'm about 90% on the following list of folks being townie:
Azrael- (well, 100% here)
Carrion Pigeons-
iLord-
Man-bear-pig-
Cubus-
I'm pretty confident in those reads, but I'm not at liberty to discuss my highly classified methods of analysis. But if/when I die, pay attention to this.
From my perspective that leaves us with seven lynch candidates, which already puts us in the realm of 50% lynch accuracy assuming 3 to 4 scum.
Charm
Rafk
Kami of Lunacy
Jodo
Ged
unstable
Chimp
A few of these I'm already suspecting more than others, and I expect I'll be able to clear a few more before long.
JodoYodo (2)- Unstable Marionette, iLord
Azrael (1)- carrion pigeons
carrion pigeons (1)- RafaelK
The fact that CP caught his mistake without much clues about what his mistake was offsets the scumminess. It could have been a good guess (if he thought about it enough that was the most likely thing in that post to be wrong) but I find it less likely that he guessed correctly as mafia than that he already knew.
I really don't like JodoYodo's response and only post.
I find how Az completely ignored it somewhat suspect and I'd like to know why he did.
iLord has some serious townie points. Unless the mafia have the town win-con in there pm's he's got to be town.
Now for speculation- Flavorfully it would make sense for the flag to either be a player or an object since during the game the flag looks just like a regular piece, however it is unable to move in any way. Mechanically, this would be a really odd game if the flag is a player since the game could end at any moment assuming capture means lynch. If the flag isn't a player and/or capture doesn't mean lynch, then there has to be some other mechanic within this game that isn't publicly known.
3CB and 4CB5CB!Vote Raf. That might look OMGUS, but I doubt that Raf would have failed to realize that I, as scum, could only have said what I did as a gambit, and that it would have been insanely stupid to risk my life on a gambit like that without trying to get a hint of what the town's WC is. Raf was voting me because it was easy to vote for me, not because my behavior had any sensible rationale as scum behavior.
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3CB and 4CB5CB!also, I notice that random phase was really short, or else I'm not good at seeing where it ends.
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It could mean that the town has to be very careful with the lynch.
After some consideration, I think that it's highly likely that each mafia member has their main Win Con, plus the flag Win Con. Hence, it would still be a deadlock. It would be way overpowered to have an undivided 4 mafia group in a 12-player game. (I'm assuming 4 because it would be broken if one team controled the vote.)
The people I'm looking at right now are JodoYodo and Azraeal. Azrael is quite the experienced player, and it's pretty suspicious that he didn't point out CP's mistake.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Additionally, I am against the idea that a flag would be player. Assuming this follows actual Stratego rules, I believe the flag can't move, and so would not be a player.
Scummy...Unvote, Vote Man Bear Pig.
Just because it couldn't move, doesn't mean it's not a player. You expect us to capture (in a way we don't know how) a flag (that we don't know what or where it is)?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Do you or do you not think that the flag is a player? If you do, why did you change your mind?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
As a mafia player, he'd have been knowingly saying something wrong-headed, something that would get the town looking at him suspiciously.
But as a town player (or neutral), I can see him floating an off-beat theory or two and being mildly forgetful.
It's one of the stronger points in his favor, if you ask me.
I didn't see any harm in it, so I just thought 'why not?'. I hadn't put any thought into the setup yet and just assumed that one color would be town and one color would be mafia. I supported the claim because it sounded like what happened in Verona, where the mafia weren't sure what factions were town and what factions were scum.
Thinking about it again, that makes no sense at all. Ah well. I blame 12 hours of straight chess.