The set up will be:
Both men will be given control of an standard American World War Two navel fleets. They will be commanding the battleship of that fleet. They also will be able to divide up their crews however they see fit among all of the ships. (They will have as many additional men as they need. Think about the size of a "You Sunk my Battleship" game.)
Picard will start in Hawaii and Adama will start in Japan.
I've watched a ton of Star Trek, hardly any BSG, but I don't see how this is close.
Adama is an admiral in a dire wartime situation. Picard is a captain of an exploration vessel, and what combat he does involve in is either his one ship vs enemy (no fighters), or some away team fistacuffs. The only time he commanded a "mini-fleet" was briefly against the borg, and at that he was just telling them to target X weakness he only knew from being Locutus.
Unless Adama is completely incompetent in that show (I'm guessing not), I don't see how he can lose. Unless Picard somehow negotiating a diplomatic solution counts as "winning", because that's all he's better at. And maybe beating sentient AIs. (he's killed the borg how may times?)
At least Kirk had beating Kahn and a ton of Klingons as a credential. Or Sisco taking on a stupid number of Dominion, albeit mostly winning to mystical toomfoolery.
Picard was a captain during the Klingon-Federation War, The War against the Dominion, not to mention the various battles against klingons / Romulans, and such throughout the series.
And the Abomination that was Nemesis.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Adama has this one easy, even if Picard is awesome in his own right.
Picard's tactics and command are all based on wildly futuristic technology, Adama's technology may not be WWII-era, but it is comparatively more contemporary than Trek's. Adama's kept the fleet alive (more or less) against insurmountable odds, a superior (nigh-unkillable) enemy, and waning resources - all with one battlestar and a small contingent of fighter craft. Picard has a spaceship that fires lasers and has shields, he'd be like a fish out of water while Adama is more than equipped to adapt.
Are these carrier fleets or battleship fleets?
If they're carrier based, Adama will win. If they're battleships, Picard will win.
Adama has a lot of experience with air-superiority tactics, but his command style doesn't seem to place more emphasis on formality and less on competence or precision (his XO and CAG were alcoholics).
On the other hand, while Picard allows a certain amount of informality, he demands a high degree of competence from his officers which is critical in long range bombardment.
Adama is more used to lower levels of tech, and the type of warfare you would have in a modernnaval setting. Pisard is definately smart and a great commander, but he is an adventurer and Adama is pure Military. I don't think Picard could have gotten the Ragtag Fleet through the events of the first episode of the TV series (not the miniseries). That was basically months of constant running and fighting with hardly anything resembling rest.
Picard is good at diplomacy, science and fancy maneuvers; Adama is good at leading in dire situations and on protecting an unarmed fleet from constant attack at a tech level where none-energy weapons and nukes are still useful.
While Adama has also had a long battle career, Picard has as well. Picard has fought against numerous living races, but the majority of Adama's battle experience (the Cylon War) is with centurions -- not exactly known for subtlety and tactics but just raw firepower. Even the skinjobs haven't shown particular skill in combat tactics (other than send-basestars-and -attack) but are better at infiltration. Picard has thousands of years of earth (and non-earth) warfare history to look back on and reference. I've seen some theories that suggested that the history of the colonies is much shorter -- a couple of thousand years at most, and most of that is in peacetime.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Adama has a lot of experience with air-superiority tactics, but his command style doesn't seem to place more emphasis on formality and less on competence or precision (his XO and CAG were alcoholics).
To be fair, Adama only tolerates as much as he does because what he's got is the best humanity has left to offer. I can see the argument for Tigh being less than competent, but even will all her issues and baggage, Starbuck is the best in the fleet. She was one of the best even before the rest of humanity was nuked. She's not formal, but her capability more than makes up for it.
The captains have their crews with them. Which means Data / Riker / Starbuck / Tigh. Due to the holodeck, the StarTrek crews are more likely to have experience with the systems, even if the Galactica crews will adapt quickly.
The majority of the fighters (starbuck / Anders) likely will be totally useless in this situation due to not knowing how the planes work or their limitations.
Picard is also famous for his ability to delegate, as well as the fact that his discipline, and his crews, is alot higher then that of BSG's
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
While Adama has also had a long battle career, Picard has as well. Picard has fought against numerous living races, but the majority of Adama's battle experience (the Cylon War) is with centurions -- not exactly known for subtlety and tactics but just raw firepower. Even the skinjobs haven't shown particular skill in combat tactics (other than send-basestars-and -attack) but are better at infiltration. Picard has thousands of years of earth (and non-earth) warfare history to look back on and reference. I've seen some theories that suggested that the history of the colonies is much shorter -- a couple of thousand years at most, and most of that is in peacetime.
I'm pretty much in agreement with this. I really like the point about Adama fighting one enemy who's tactics never seem to change... Picard has faced many many many opponents, each utilizing different strategies to try and defeat him. Picard's experience should definitely not be discounted. I'm not saying it wouldn't be an epic battle or anything, but I think Picard is more controlled, more logical and has the experience that comes from a LOT of variety to allow him to employ incredible tactics.
And as said, he is HUGE on studying history... He has great military strategists from across the stars to look to when thinking of a battle strategy.
The captains have their crews with them. Which means Data / Riker / Starbuck / Tigh. Due to the holodeck, the StarTrek crews are more likely to have experience with the systems, even if the Galactica crews will adapt quickly.
That presupposes that Picard and co have been running such simulations. I seem to recall (I'm not an avid Trek fan and I haven't so much as glanced at an episode in years) that the holodeck tended not to be used to simulate WWII environments.
Also, Starbuck at least would have little trouble figuring out the avionics in a plane. They aren't all that dissimilar to the birds she flies now. And she did dissect and repair (not to mention successfully piloted) a Cylon raider without any knowledge at all of Cylon avionics.
The Galactica crew may not be as disciplined as the Enterprise's, but they're certainly far more battle-hardened. They're a military crew to begin with, but the years following the fall of the Colonies has certainly honed those skills. I think the Trek-equivalent to Adama and his crew is Janeway and Voyager, to be honest.
To be fair, Adama only tolerates as much as he does because what he's got is the best humanity has left to offer. I can see the argument for Tigh being less than competent, but even will all her issues and baggage, Starbuck is the best in the fleet. She was one of the best even before the rest of humanity was nuked. She's not formal, but her capability more than makes up for it.
To be perfectly fair, we don't know how Picard would act in Adama's shoes. In that way, they're a bit incomparable. Picard still has Starfleet with him, his ship is able to be repaired and resupplied whenever needed. His crew isn't the remainder of the capable humans, it's the top of Starfleet Academy's classes (I'd assume). Picard doesn't have the fate of his species on his shoulders, nor does he live in fear of a constant, superior enemy force.
I would like to add that neither side has any preparation time before they appear in the pacific. But, it will take a few weeks before the fleets meet up, so that should give both crews time to get used to WW2 tec. Also, there are other WW2 people on the ships to help out and show everyone how everything works.
To be perfectly fair, we don't know how Picard would act in Adama's shoes. In that way, they're a bit incomparable. Picard still has Starfleet with him, his ship is able to be repaired and resupplied whenever needed. His crew isn't the remainder of the capable humans, it's the top of Starfleet Academy's classes (I'd assume). Picard doesn't have the fate of his species on his shoulders, nor does he live in fear of a constant, superior enemy force.
It's apples and oranges.
All I have to say to this is BORG.
You said it best mikeyG, "the top of Starfleet Academy's classes" and Picard is the leader of them on that ship. I voted Picard.
It was tough...but I went with Adama, he just seems so much more prepared for combat...although the fact that Picard did get assimilated and plugged into one of the assumably (sp?) much better references for tactics...just maybe.
But I choose Adama, I assume, like the Pegasus's captain, he got to command a whole Battlestar Group.
I don't like Star Trek, but I know that, when things got hot, Adama would jump away. that's not possible now.
Except that you're forgetting one thing: initially, Adama was hellbent on fighting back against the Cylon. It wasn't until Roslin convinced him that the needs of the remains of the human fleet came first that he abandoned his desire to continue the war with the Galactica. Remove the human fleet to protect and Adama would not have run away. And it's not like Picard has never warped away from a sticky situation.
And? Show me where the Borg are a constant source of fear and the Enterprise is always under attack. Or that Picard is the last and only line of defense between the Borg and what's left of the human race.
The encounters with the Borg are probably the roughest for the Enterprise, but Picard and co can't come close to the level of opposition Adama and his crew faces daily.
You said it best mikeyG, "the top of Starfleet Academy's classes" and Picard is the leader of them on that ship. I voted Picard.
Yes, and top of the class means crap all, in reality. In comparison, the Trek crew are wet behind the ears, squeaky clean nerds and the Galactica crew is bloody, sweaty and scarred, but they've earned each and every scar. They've been tested, really tested. They may not be a utopian future's best and brightest, but they have more wartime experience than almost anyone on Enterprise. And in my opinion, that counts for more than a degree and a pat on the top of the head from Starfleet Academy.
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I really like the point about Adama fighting one enemy who's tactics never seem to change... Picard has faced many many many opponents, each utilizing different strategies to try and defeat him. Picard's experience should definitely not be discounted.
That is quite a compelling counterargument. But I wonder how much of his experience is dependent on the employment of starships and other advanced technology. And I do have to defend Adama a bit, it's not often he gets to employ tactics other than 'defend until the fleet escapes', but he has been shown to use war strategies when needed. He's been shown to be a keen mind for using what he's got to accomplish his goals, even if he's facing a larger and stronger enemy force. Though the same can be said of Picard.
I would like to add that neither side as any preparation time before they appear in the pacific. But, it will take a few weeks before the fleets meet up, so that should give both crews time to get used to WW2 tec. Also, there are other WW2 people on the ships to help out and show everyone how everything works.
Sals it for me. Without the holodeck to give them an unfair edge, I don't think Picard and his crew have what it takes to take on Adama. For me it comes down to something stated very early on: Picard and his ship were built for exploration, diplomacy and science, not war. Adama and his ship were made for war, and have made a years-long campaign of fighting a losing war without really losing yet. Galactica's commander and crew just seem far more suited for war than the Enterprise' folk.
And? Show me where the Borg are a constant source of fear and the Enterprise is always under attack. Or that Picard is the last and only line of defense between the Borg and what's left of the human race.
The encounters with the Borg are probably the roughest for the Enterprise, but Picard and co can't come close to the level of opposition Adama and his crew faces daily.
Yes, and top of the class means crap all, in reality. In comparison, the Trek crew are wet behind the ears, squeaky clean nerds and the Galactica crew is bloody, sweaty and scarred, but they've earned each and every scar. They've been tested, really tested. They may not be a utopian future's best and brightest, but they have more wartime experience than almost anyone on Enterprise. And in my opinion, that counts for more than a degree and a pat on the top of the head from Starfleet Academy.
Really all that matters is that Picard gets a think tank and Data and Worf. Data is really a one man army and Worf is extremely capable of any type of combat, add in the fact that everyone is top of their class and you have what I call a stomp.
This is so easy Picard its silly.... it has nothing to do with experance its that he has his crew. Klinons are the best hand to hand fighters in the universe (according to trek universe atleast) he has access to telepaths and an andoid that level of tech superority will simpley allow him to win this. how if the crews were not involved this might be fair....
Picard's crew is inarguably superior. Worf is extremely strong, and Data has superhuman strength. Data can also run internal simulations to determine best tactical decisions. And as second in command, Picard has a man who could be a captain but chooses not to (Riker) while Adama has a one-eyed drunkard and proven screw-up in mass leadership situations (Tigh).
It's really a hard pick, and an excelent choice for a vs.
I believe that Picard is a stronger tactition, which is what these fights are all about. I belive his education has a stronger pedigree, and that his crew is more talented as a whole. His crew mans the flagship of the federation, and he has been given the brightest and the best, this includes Data, which is a massive tactical advantage in most situations. The question is: will they be able to use all of these amazing abilities with such a crude vessel?
Afterall, sometimes the best weapon is a blunt object.
What I mean is this: Adama's style of combat more closely mimics the combat that a WW2 battleship deploys. It's less about refined manuvering and finesse, and more about innitial planning then bringing raw power to bear. That is how Adama is forced to fight due to the limitations of Galactica, so he has more experience with these types of tactics.
I think in the end, that Picard will win. They have proven the capacity to adapt time and time again. Adamas innitial advantage will quickly be outclassed by superior skill and training.
That presupposes that Picard and co have been running such simulations. I seem to recall (I'm not an avid Trek fan and I haven't so much as glanced at an episode in years) that the holodeck tended not to be used to simulate WWII environments.
In various episodes theyve used the holodeck for personal recreation, whether that be battle training, a luau or what have you. In Star Trek: Generations, the opening TNG scene with Worf's promotion occurred on an OLD sailing ship... So clearly they've at least had some degree of experience with "ancient" technology.
And? Show me where the Borg are a constant source of fear and the Enterprise is always under attack. Or that Picard is the last and only line of defense between the Borg and what's left of the human race.
The encounters with the Borg are probably the roughest for the Enterprise, but Picard and co can't come close to the level of opposition Adama and his crew faces daily.
I definitely agree with this. Even though the Enterprise has seen it's fair share of battle, there's no way you can compare the threat of annihilation EVERY DAY to almost "random" attacks from various species. Although in the Enterprise series (with Archer), they come somewhat close to this with the season about the Xindii... And that goes to show some of the character that Starfleet crews have (well, humans in general to be honest).
Yes, and top of the class means crap all, in reality. In comparison, the Trek crew are wet behind the ears, squeaky clean nerds and the Galactica crew is bloody, sweaty and scarred, but they've earned each and every scar. They've been tested, really tested. They may not be a utopian future's best and brightest, but they have more wartime experience than almost anyone on Enterprise. And in my opinion, that counts for more than a degree and a pat on the top of the head from Starfleet Academy.
I disagree with this. As said, the Enterprise is the FLAGSHIP of the fleet. The best of the best get there, and they don't just get a "pat on the head" from Starfleet. These people have to fight for these positions, and people get confused when they make it onto the Enterprise when they feel their credentials aren't up to snuff (take Ensign Ro Laren for example). The security teams on the Enterprise are *tough*. It's not all just a bunch of scrawny nerds with science instruments, there's a lot involved in becoming a Starfleet officer, and that shouldn't be discredited so easily.
I'll grant you, the every day battling it out for your life certainly gives you some toughness and experience, but at the same time, there's morale that has to factor into this as well. If you literally drop them from Galactica into WW2 scenario, they've been fighting for ages... They don't FEEL like fighting, they just want to go home. The Enterprise on the other hand, while not really feeling like fighting either, at least have had some time to recuperate and sort their personal stuff. They're going to be mentally and emotionally more capable when it comes to fight time... Which is *VERY* important.
But I wonder how much of his experience is dependent on the employment of starships and other advanced technology. And I do have to defend Adama a bit, it's not often he gets to employ tactics other than 'defend until the fleet escapes', but he has been shown to use war strategies when needed. He's been shown to be a keen mind for using what he's got to accomplish his goals, even if he's facing a larger and stronger enemy force. Though the same can be said of Picard.
Well advanced technology or no, being able to implement such strategies regardless of technological ability shows cunning and the ability to adapt to situations when they come at you. I'm sure many Starfleet Captains have gotten themselves killed because they never thought to vent the plasma or whatever... The point is, Picard has shown that he can definitely think on his feet, and use whatever resources he has available at his disposal.
Besides, having such knowledge about advanced technology yields almost greater power over primitive technology... Think about all the knowledge we (as posters) have accumulated over the course of our lifetime (and many of us aren't actual engineers). Say we were thrown back a thousand years... Don't you think there are a COUPLE of things we know that we could improve given the situation? Some very basic things might not really be changeable, but there would be many instances where we would be seen as a "Magician" (hahahah... on a Magic forum :xd: ) in the olden days because we would posess this "otherworldly knowledge" about how things work. Having that behind you really helps in terms of planning and preparation and being able to maximize the resources you have.
Sals it for me. Without the holodeck to give them an unfair edge, I don't think Picard and his crew have what it takes to take on Adama. For me it comes down to something stated very early on: Picard and his ship were built for exploration, diplomacy and science, not war. Adama and his ship were made for war, and have made a years-long campaign of fighting a losing war without really losing yet. Galactica's commander and crew just seem far more suited for war than the Enterprise' folk.
I'm definitely not wanting to minimize what Adama and his crew have gone through, as it is enormous. But Starfleet has seen it's share of rough times too (take the Dominion War for instance, or the previously mentioned Xindii war). And regardless of whether the ships were *made* for war (The Sovereign class was actually designed with the Dominion war in mind if I'm not mistaken, and the Prometheus Class *WAS* intended as a warship), the point is that both groups have seen their share of battle (Galactica obviously moreso).
I'm obviously in Picard's camp... And I'm not even focusing on the crew so much. Data is obviously a HUGE trump card when it comes to knowledge about history, technology etc... But I'm pretty much going to ignore that (as well as Worf, because even Worf can't take on 100 marines... And it's not like Picard can just "bring along" other non-affiliated species such as the Klingons, then he might as well bring the Borg and call it a day). I would like to mention that Adama has some "androids" at his disposal in the form of the final five... Although not the wealth of knowledge that Data is, they *are* very strong (as they've been shown before) and have some pretty fantastic abilities as well. But as said, this is more Picard vs. Adama to me, and I still feel Picard has the edge all in all.
I tried to give both men an advantage. The setting favors Adama. The fact that both men get their crews favors Picard.
I would like to point out that in a WW2 navel battle it will all be about who can 'see; who first. Its was nearly impossible to find where the enemy was. With radar and Subs they will be circling each-other for a long time. I do not think Data or Worfs hand to hand ability will matter in the lest. This is not a pirate ship or something. As soon as one group finds the other it will be cannons and planes that matter, not batleths.
This is really about which crew and captain can find and fire first.
To which I feel Picard's (and his crew's) superior knowledge of physics and how to utilize certain tools to gather information would be highly valuable. After all, when it comes to looking for something, who would have the edge: The soldier or the scientist? Chances are, the scientist will find an ingenuitive way of finding the other force, vs. the raw "I'm going to look around and try to spot you".
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The set up will be:
Both men will be given control of an standard American World War Two navel fleets. They will be commanding the battleship of that fleet. They also will be able to divide up their crews however they see fit among all of the ships. (They will have as many additional men as they need. Think about the size of a "You Sunk my Battleship" game.)
Picard will start in Hawaii and Adama will start in Japan.
Adama is an admiral in a dire wartime situation. Picard is a captain of an exploration vessel, and what combat he does involve in is either his one ship vs enemy (no fighters), or some away team fistacuffs. The only time he commanded a "mini-fleet" was briefly against the borg, and at that he was just telling them to target X weakness he only knew from being Locutus.
Unless Adama is completely incompetent in that show (I'm guessing not), I don't see how he can lose. Unless Picard somehow negotiating a diplomatic solution counts as "winning", because that's all he's better at. And maybe beating sentient AIs. (he's killed the borg how may times?)
At least Kirk had beating Kahn and a ton of Klingons as a credential. Or Sisco taking on a stupid number of Dominion, albeit mostly winning to mystical toomfoolery.
And the Abomination that was Nemesis.
Picard's tactics and command are all based on wildly futuristic technology, Adama's technology may not be WWII-era, but it is comparatively more contemporary than Trek's. Adama's kept the fleet alive (more or less) against insurmountable odds, a superior (nigh-unkillable) enemy, and waning resources - all with one battlestar and a small contingent of fighter craft. Picard has a spaceship that fires lasers and has shields, he'd be like a fish out of water while Adama is more than equipped to adapt.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
If they're carrier based, Adama will win. If they're battleships, Picard will win.
Adama has a lot of experience with air-superiority tactics, but his command style doesn't seem to place more emphasis on formality and less on competence or precision (his XO and CAG were alcoholics).
On the other hand, while Picard allows a certain amount of informality, he demands a high degree of competence from his officers which is critical in long range bombardment.
Picard is good at diplomacy, science and fancy maneuvers; Adama is good at leading in dire situations and on protecting an unarmed fleet from constant attack at a tech level where none-energy weapons and nukes are still useful.
While Adama has also had a long battle career, Picard has as well. Picard has fought against numerous living races, but the majority of Adama's battle experience (the Cylon War) is with centurions -- not exactly known for subtlety and tactics but just raw firepower. Even the skinjobs haven't shown particular skill in combat tactics (other than send-basestars-and -attack) but are better at infiltration. Picard has thousands of years of earth (and non-earth) warfare history to look back on and reference. I've seen some theories that suggested that the history of the colonies is much shorter -- a couple of thousand years at most, and most of that is in peacetime.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
To be fair, Adama only tolerates as much as he does because what he's got is the best humanity has left to offer. I can see the argument for Tigh being less than competent, but even will all her issues and baggage, Starbuck is the best in the fleet. She was one of the best even before the rest of humanity was nuked. She's not formal, but her capability more than makes up for it.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
The captains have their crews with them. Which means Data / Riker / Starbuck / Tigh. Due to the holodeck, the StarTrek crews are more likely to have experience with the systems, even if the Galactica crews will adapt quickly.
The majority of the fighters (starbuck / Anders) likely will be totally useless in this situation due to not knowing how the planes work or their limitations.
Picard is also famous for his ability to delegate, as well as the fact that his discipline, and his crews, is alot higher then that of BSG's
Also, as said, Team Picard has the holodeck to train themselves on.
However, in most situations, Adama has the upperhand no problem.
I'm pretty much in agreement with this. I really like the point about Adama fighting one enemy who's tactics never seem to change... Picard has faced many many many opponents, each utilizing different strategies to try and defeat him. Picard's experience should definitely not be discounted. I'm not saying it wouldn't be an epic battle or anything, but I think Picard is more controlled, more logical and has the experience that comes from a LOT of variety to allow him to employ incredible tactics.
And as said, he is HUGE on studying history... He has great military strategists from across the stars to look to when thinking of a battle strategy.
That presupposes that Picard and co have been running such simulations. I seem to recall (I'm not an avid Trek fan and I haven't so much as glanced at an episode in years) that the holodeck tended not to be used to simulate WWII environments.
Also, Starbuck at least would have little trouble figuring out the avionics in a plane. They aren't all that dissimilar to the birds she flies now. And she did dissect and repair (not to mention successfully piloted) a Cylon raider without any knowledge at all of Cylon avionics.
The Galactica crew may not be as disciplined as the Enterprise's, but they're certainly far more battle-hardened. They're a military crew to begin with, but the years following the fall of the Colonies has certainly honed those skills. I think the Trek-equivalent to Adama and his crew is Janeway and Voyager, to be honest.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
True, but Picard would never have to get his ass kicked by Le Forge to get him to fix the shuttles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfinished_Business_%28Battlestar_Galactica%29
To be perfectly fair, we don't know how Picard would act in Adama's shoes. In that way, they're a bit incomparable. Picard still has Starfleet with him, his ship is able to be repaired and resupplied whenever needed. His crew isn't the remainder of the capable humans, it's the top of Starfleet Academy's classes (I'd assume). Picard doesn't have the fate of his species on his shoulders, nor does he live in fear of a constant, superior enemy force.
It's apples and oranges.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
All I have to say to this is BORG.
You said it best mikeyG, "the top of Starfleet Academy's classes" and Picard is the leader of them on that ship. I voted Picard.
But I choose Adama, I assume, like the Pegasus's captain, he got to command a whole Battlestar Group.
Except that you're forgetting one thing: initially, Adama was hellbent on fighting back against the Cylon. It wasn't until Roslin convinced him that the needs of the remains of the human fleet came first that he abandoned his desire to continue the war with the Galactica. Remove the human fleet to protect and Adama would not have run away. And it's not like Picard has never warped away from a sticky situation.
And? Show me where the Borg are a constant source of fear and the Enterprise is always under attack. Or that Picard is the last and only line of defense between the Borg and what's left of the human race.
The encounters with the Borg are probably the roughest for the Enterprise, but Picard and co can't come close to the level of opposition Adama and his crew faces daily.
Yes, and top of the class means crap all, in reality. In comparison, the Trek crew are wet behind the ears, squeaky clean nerds and the Galactica crew is bloody, sweaty and scarred, but they've earned each and every scar. They've been tested, really tested. They may not be a utopian future's best and brightest, but they have more wartime experience than almost anyone on Enterprise. And in my opinion, that counts for more than a degree and a pat on the top of the head from Starfleet Academy.
That is quite a compelling counterargument. But I wonder how much of his experience is dependent on the employment of starships and other advanced technology. And I do have to defend Adama a bit, it's not often he gets to employ tactics other than 'defend until the fleet escapes', but he has been shown to use war strategies when needed. He's been shown to be a keen mind for using what he's got to accomplish his goals, even if he's facing a larger and stronger enemy force. Though the same can be said of Picard.
Sals it for me. Without the holodeck to give them an unfair edge, I don't think Picard and his crew have what it takes to take on Adama. For me it comes down to something stated very early on: Picard and his ship were built for exploration, diplomacy and science, not war. Adama and his ship were made for war, and have made a years-long campaign of fighting a losing war without really losing yet. Galactica's commander and crew just seem far more suited for war than the Enterprise' folk.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Really all that matters is that Picard gets a think tank and Data and Worf. Data is really a one man army and Worf is extremely capable of any type of combat, add in the fact that everyone is top of their class and you have what I call a stomp.
I believe that Picard is a stronger tactition, which is what these fights are all about. I belive his education has a stronger pedigree, and that his crew is more talented as a whole. His crew mans the flagship of the federation, and he has been given the brightest and the best, this includes Data, which is a massive tactical advantage in most situations. The question is: will they be able to use all of these amazing abilities with such a crude vessel?
Afterall, sometimes the best weapon is a blunt object.
What I mean is this: Adama's style of combat more closely mimics the combat that a WW2 battleship deploys. It's less about refined manuvering and finesse, and more about innitial planning then bringing raw power to bear. That is how Adama is forced to fight due to the limitations of Galactica, so he has more experience with these types of tactics.
I think in the end, that Picard will win. They have proven the capacity to adapt time and time again. Adamas innitial advantage will quickly be outclassed by superior skill and training.
Well, in regards to this point, I would like to refer you to this Voyager episode:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Game
In various episodes theyve used the holodeck for personal recreation, whether that be battle training, a luau or what have you. In Star Trek: Generations, the opening TNG scene with Worf's promotion occurred on an OLD sailing ship... So clearly they've at least had some degree of experience with "ancient" technology.
I definitely agree with this. Even though the Enterprise has seen it's fair share of battle, there's no way you can compare the threat of annihilation EVERY DAY to almost "random" attacks from various species. Although in the Enterprise series (with Archer), they come somewhat close to this with the season about the Xindii... And that goes to show some of the character that Starfleet crews have (well, humans in general to be honest).
I disagree with this. As said, the Enterprise is the FLAGSHIP of the fleet. The best of the best get there, and they don't just get a "pat on the head" from Starfleet. These people have to fight for these positions, and people get confused when they make it onto the Enterprise when they feel their credentials aren't up to snuff (take Ensign Ro Laren for example). The security teams on the Enterprise are *tough*. It's not all just a bunch of scrawny nerds with science instruments, there's a lot involved in becoming a Starfleet officer, and that shouldn't be discredited so easily.
I'll grant you, the every day battling it out for your life certainly gives you some toughness and experience, but at the same time, there's morale that has to factor into this as well. If you literally drop them from Galactica into WW2 scenario, they've been fighting for ages... They don't FEEL like fighting, they just want to go home. The Enterprise on the other hand, while not really feeling like fighting either, at least have had some time to recuperate and sort their personal stuff. They're going to be mentally and emotionally more capable when it comes to fight time... Which is *VERY* important.
Well advanced technology or no, being able to implement such strategies regardless of technological ability shows cunning and the ability to adapt to situations when they come at you. I'm sure many Starfleet Captains have gotten themselves killed because they never thought to vent the plasma or whatever... The point is, Picard has shown that he can definitely think on his feet, and use whatever resources he has available at his disposal.
Besides, having such knowledge about advanced technology yields almost greater power over primitive technology... Think about all the knowledge we (as posters) have accumulated over the course of our lifetime (and many of us aren't actual engineers). Say we were thrown back a thousand years... Don't you think there are a COUPLE of things we know that we could improve given the situation? Some very basic things might not really be changeable, but there would be many instances where we would be seen as a "Magician" (hahahah... on a Magic forum :xd: ) in the olden days because we would posess this "otherworldly knowledge" about how things work. Having that behind you really helps in terms of planning and preparation and being able to maximize the resources you have.
I'm definitely not wanting to minimize what Adama and his crew have gone through, as it is enormous. But Starfleet has seen it's share of rough times too (take the Dominion War for instance, or the previously mentioned Xindii war). And regardless of whether the ships were *made* for war (The Sovereign class was actually designed with the Dominion war in mind if I'm not mistaken, and the Prometheus Class *WAS* intended as a warship), the point is that both groups have seen their share of battle (Galactica obviously moreso).
I'm obviously in Picard's camp... And I'm not even focusing on the crew so much. Data is obviously a HUGE trump card when it comes to knowledge about history, technology etc... But I'm pretty much going to ignore that (as well as Worf, because even Worf can't take on 100 marines... And it's not like Picard can just "bring along" other non-affiliated species such as the Klingons, then he might as well bring the Borg and call it a day). I would like to mention that Adama has some "androids" at his disposal in the form of the final five... Although not the wealth of knowledge that Data is, they *are* very strong (as they've been shown before) and have some pretty fantastic abilities as well. But as said, this is more Picard vs. Adama to me, and I still feel Picard has the edge all in all.
I would like to point out that in a WW2 navel battle it will all be about who can 'see; who first. Its was nearly impossible to find where the enemy was. With radar and Subs they will be circling each-other for a long time. I do not think Data or Worfs hand to hand ability will matter in the lest. This is not a pirate ship or something. As soon as one group finds the other it will be cannons and planes that matter, not batleths.
This is really about which crew and captain can find and fire first.