Wow, I really love this deck! Imagine pulling all 3 Overbeing of Myths for Sanity Grinding! Ouch!
I have no ideas other than some removal to keep you alive... Evacuation is good.... Maybe Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir or Venser, Shaper Savant for more control of the board... And they have a lot of in their cost, so it helps Sanity Grinding!
Lots of blue, and that Twincast on a Cryptic or a Sanity Grinding is absolutely brutal. Then you add the massive mill of Jace Beleren's full power? Ouch.
Thanks for all the suggests so far. I wouldn't recommend making the entire deck creature-free, but this is based on common feedback. Twincast seems like a cool idea, but it would seem redundant because you'd have to wait till turn 5 at least to copy your own grinding, in which case you could just cast Traumatize for similiar(if not better effect).
Jace seems solid, could be worth trying, as are Laquatus(to block and mill), and maybe Teferi(altho he costs 5). The Wizard hard lock which J-Turkey suggested seems interesting, and would definitely be fun to piece together. I could see using Vedalken Aethermage as a tutor as well, but by then it would probably become some weird Wizard deck.
N as I mentioned in my 1st post, I don't have any Cryptics to put in, even tho it is the best blue card in standard right now. :/ Oh, and Dream Fractures were already part of the original list.
Perhaps somebody would be kind enough to criticize my decklist, and suggest what to take out or put in? Thanks.
Cryptic Command and Memory Plunder should be in here to enable, protect, and make more copies of the Grinding.
Go read memory plunder friend....it specifies card in an opponents graveyard.
and for changes....take out advice from the fae, the initiates, and the merrows, for 4 Rune Snag, 3 cold eyed selkie, and 3 twincast, and 2 jace.
work cryptic in if you can get it.
And no, traumatize will could be worse if you already hit them with a grinding before, and you can twincast in response to counter. look at it like this.
t1 land, sluice (49 cards in op library max)(less mulligan)
t2 land, hold mana for snag (48 cards)
t3 land, sanity grinding for 15+, (33 or so, very possibly less)
t4 land, mana for counters/plumeveil (32)
Okay, so thats pretty bloody good and not always going to happen. Now we have this.
t5 land, Traumatize, single counter timewalks them for the turn, or leaves them (15/16) in library
vs.
t5 land, Grind + Twincast (countering one they'll have ~15, both resolve and they're likely outta cards)
and is likely a dead card in your hand in other situations. There's better things to play with high colour costs that aren't worthless when not just grinding fodder.
I was about to create a thread about a deck i was developing, but found this one a bit too similar. Let´s call it an archetype, shall we?
Here is my take on sanity griding abuse. Its very different from the merfolk strategy posted originally, focusing more on the harder to answer Jace Beleren and Sanity Grinding :
MWS testing is showing great results. It has a hard time against mana disrupting aggro, but otherwise a good game (except faeries, of course). The deck has a surprising fast clock, begin able to mill at turn three and just when is getting out of the gas popping the Shelldock Isles. Twincasting Sanity Griding is insane, so does the synergy between it and Jace Beleren. Just use the +2 ability every turn (Drawing is, after all, a form of milling). Good opponents will focus on removing the planeswalker as far as possible is you insist on adding more counters, what gives you time to continue milling. And +2 you griding is not bad at all.
I feel that Grimoire Thief is out of place. Its the only small creature on the deck, so it attracts all possible removal to it. Besides that, it needs a whole turn alive to begin to work and don´t interact much with the deck. Its still there because its a counterspell with legs(or fins, for that matter). Perhaps it should be replaced with Traumatize? Or this would mess to much with the curve? If Thief stays, what cards can i add to interact with it?
Another issue regarding the curve is Traumatize versus Forced Fruition. Adding both would make the deck far too slow (and more vulnerable to counters!) at the moment Fruition is in the deck because 1- Is good only late game, where Sanity Grinding can take care of the early game 2- Finishes the game right there 3- Its almost an Arcane Laboratory, makes controlling easier.
The five mana hybrids can actually smash face if the grinding plain fails. Overbeing was chosen because of the card advantage and Godhead because of the creature control. The grindings usually go off for between 15 and 25 with this configuration.
Should Remove Souls be replaced with something else?
Run some mana acceleration like 4 Mind Stone. I don't like Reality Strobe and I would suggest cutting that for 4 ofs the other spells. I realize you can stack it so that it goes off returning the Reality Acid to your hand, but it's way too slow. I'd rather see 4 ofs of your other cards. You do need to get to the late game so maybe Plumeveil, Grimoire Thief, and Cloudskate/Mastermind. I really like the Mastermind with Acid/Sceptor/Cloudskate. I've been trying to build a U/w control deck with Mastermind and Oblivion Ring/Venser/Rule of Law lock. It's hard to keep Mastermind in play.
OK, I've edited the deck some, and I do like it better. I took the reality strobe out (for good reason), and decided to accel with coldsteel heart (the U only Mana cost limits my accel choices). I hate Jace. Against any amount of aggro his is dea, and it's basically pay 3, prevent the next 3 damage, draw a card. I chjose to add another Plumveil because it is an awesome blocker.
I was about to create a thread about a deck i was developing, but found this one a bit too similar. Let´s call it an archetype, shall we?
Here is my take on sanity griding abuse. Its very different from the merfolk strategy posted originally, focusing more on the harder to answer Jace Beleren and Sanity Grinding :
MWS testing is showing great results. It has a hard time against mana disrupting aggro, but otherwise a good game (except faeries, of course). The deck has a surprising fast clock, begin able to mill at turn three and just when is getting out of the gas popping the Shelldock Isles. Twincasting Sanity Griding is insane, so does the synergy between it and Jace Beleren. Just use the +2 ability every turn (Drawing is, after all, a form of milling). Good opponents will focus on removing the planeswalker as far as possible is you insist on adding more counters, what gives you time to continue milling. And +2 you griding is not bad at all.
I feel that Grimoire Thief is out of place. Its the only small creature on the deck, so it attracts all possible removal to it. Besides that, it needs a whole turn alive to begin to work and don´t interact much with the deck. Its still there because its a counterspell with legs(or fins, for that matter). Perhaps it should be replaced with Traumatize? Or this would mess to much with the curve? If Thief stays, what cards can i add to interact with it?
Another issue regarding the curve is Traumatize versus Forced Fruition. Adding both would make the deck far too slow (and more vulnerable to counters!) at the moment Fruition is in the deck because 1- Is good only late game, where Sanity Grinding can take care of the early game 2- Finishes the game right there 3- Its almost an Arcane Laboratory, makes controlling easier.
The five mana hybrids can actually smash face if the grinding plain fails. Overbeing was chosen because of the card advantage and Godhead because of the creature control. The grindings usually go off for between 15 and 25 with this configuration.
Should Remove Souls be replaced with something else?
Opinions are welcome.
Hmm... the Grimoire Thief looks good, I forgot about it. The only problem with it is that it's fragile, and only triggers on an attack, which would most probably mean it being blocked and killed, milling 4.
N the thing with your deck is, what cards do you have that can protect Jace? The merfolk is meant to attack so that's out.
Forced Fruition also seems a bit too slow and actually helps some decks(like RDW for example).
Elysium did give some good suggestions, thanks man. Tho is Cold-Eyed Selkie any good? Have yet to test it out, and it doesn't seem that it would help this deck... dunno? But I will definitely try the Twincasts out now.
Hmm... the Grimoire Thief looks good, I forgot about it. The only problem with it is that it's fragile, and only triggers on an attack, which would most probably mean it being blocked and killed, milling 4.
N the thing with your deck is, what cards do you have that can protect Jace? The merfolk is meant to attack so that's out.
Forced Fruition also seems a bit too slow and actually helps some decks(like RDW for example).
Elysium did give some good suggestions, thanks man. Tho is Cold-Eyed Selkie any good? Have yet to test it out, and it doesn't seem that it would help this deck... dunno? But I will definitely try the Twincasts out now.
okay, so wistful selkie has a cantrip plus a UUU cost.. but it wont be gamebreaking at times.. unlike vendilion clique which can take out almost all critters while fixing your hand or disrupting your opponent's hand.
also..
-4 Drowner Initiate, +4 Screeching Sliver
screeching sliver can be a stand alone mill for your opponent.. unlike drowner initiate which would most likely need extra mana to be utilized. its like comparing it to this scenario..
Drowner Initiate
T1: land, Drowner Initiate.
T2: Grimoire Thief. (what did your drowner do? attack? but thats not the point of using him isnt it?)
T3: Dream Fracture
T4: Sanity Grinding, pay 1 for Drowner a mill plus the drowner's one which woul add an extra mill of 2
see how slow it could be? unlike..
Screeching Sliver
T1: land, Screeching Sliver
T2: Grimoire Thief, tap Sliver to mill 1 card (..see? as early as turn two you have milled atleast one card)
T3: Dream Fracture, tap the sliver again:rolleyes:
T4: Sanity Grinding, tap the sliver again.
see how screeching sliver can be much more utilized rather than Initiate?
..just some advices on how to replace those cards with a better card advantage.:cool:
Traumatize is horrible... I've tested it. If you get it down on turn 5, it mills the opponent for 27 cards..... Bringing them down to 28. After that it's just a waste of mana.
Hey there. I have a similar deck. Try Sigil Tracer instead of Curse Catcher and Snakeform over Puresight Merrow. Snakeform is good removal and makes you draw card. Sigil can basically conspire any spell (including Sanity Grinding). Puresight needs to be tapped and is often underwhelming.
You need Jace Beleren in there. Overbeing of Myth is going to love it. Although I prefer runnign Oona, Queen of the Fae instead of Overbeing. (I tested both and Overbeign is only a 6/6 at best. Goes down to a 3/3 than a 5/5. Gets often creamed. Only reason to play her is get mad card advantage and 5 symbols. But Oona helps milling faster and gives you an army of fae tokens. Good chump blocks to survive.
Another idea I had lately is to use Rings of Brighthearth. You can copy Jace's ability or even Sigil Tracer's ability. Another funny use of it is with Oona, Queen of the Fae. You mill for 6 then activate Rings to double mill and get double tokens. It's fun!
After some more testing, I'm starting to think that Cryptic Command is not even needed in here. We already have Broken Ambitions, Sage's Dousing and Dream Fracture. Who are all excellent. With Sigil Tracer, Twincast and Memory Plunder, there's really no need for another counter spell.
Yeah, Traumatize is one of the most overhyped cards. I can't believe I actually bought them. Sanity Grinding is so much better and cheaper.
Wow, Jester's Scepter is a really good card. How come I've never heard of it?! I don't like Reality Acid though. I prefer Snakeform for removal because it makes you draw a card. And btw why don't you play Broken Ambitions?
Yeah, Traumatize is one of the most overhyped cards. I can't believe I actually bought them. Sanity Grinding is so much better and cheaper.
I just had a couple I had pulled. Ugh. They play terribly.
Wow, Jester's Scepter is a really good card. How come I've never heard of it?! I don't like Reality Acid though. I prefer Snakeform for removal because it makes you draw a card. And btw why don't you play Broken Ambitions?
Reality Acid == Bounce Fodder. If you bounce it, then you have continual removal of permanents.
Snakeform only lasts until the end of turn, and I don't really think it's helpful here.
Broken Ambitions is cool, and I thought about it, but there just was not room. It's solid, but I added blockers that go better with Sanity Grinding rather than another counter spell.
Oh wow, I didn't see that. When Reality Acid leaves play, opponent has to sac the permanent. So you can just keep bouncing it to your hand and clear his permanents. That's awesome.
Because you couldn't play a turn two battalion. Though Goyf is still hanging around.
You can play it through Manamorphose, but I'm wondering how the Chameleon Colossus gets played turn 3. Also I don't think any deck would survive that opening short of Damnation or Wrathnation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Puresight Merrow
4 Plumeveil
4 Wistful Selkie
3 Overbeing of Myth
4 Dream Fracture
4 Memory Sluice
4 Sanity Grinding
P.S. I don't have any Cryptics, or they would go in as well.
Updated the 1st post since nobody seems to have seen it, LOL.
Screeching Sliver?
4 Grimoire Thief
4 Plumeveil
4 Wistful Selkie
4 Overbeing of Myth
4 Dream Fracture
4 Memory Sluice
4 Sanity Grinding
3 Twincast
2 Jace Beleren
My Sales Post!
I have no ideas other than some removal to keep you alive... Evacuation is good.... Maybe Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir or Venser, Shaper Savant for more control of the board... And they have a lot of in their cost, so it helps Sanity Grinding!
i would also recommend dream fracture.. it will help at times to slowly let your opponent pseudo-mill while you dig for your milling cards..
ambassador laquatus could also be a possible milling engine on its own.. (1UU cc):p
ChibiSwan! YOU ROCK!
...........Shin on the textless Cryptic Command
Lots of blue, and that Twincast on a Cryptic or a Sanity Grinding is absolutely brutal. Then you add the massive mill of Jace Beleren's full power? Ouch.
Boomerangs and Evacuates are a good idea too.
^ Courtesy of Sgt. Chubbz from Damnation Studios.
Jace seems solid, could be worth trying, as are Laquatus(to block and mill), and maybe Teferi(altho he costs 5). The Wizard hard lock which J-Turkey suggested seems interesting, and would definitely be fun to piece together. I could see using Vedalken Aethermage as a tutor as well, but by then it would probably become some weird Wizard deck.
N as I mentioned in my 1st post, I don't have any Cryptics to put in, even tho it is the best blue card in standard right now. :/ Oh, and Dream Fractures were already part of the original list.
Perhaps somebody would be kind enough to criticize my decklist, and suggest what to take out or put in? Thanks.
My Sales Post!
Go read memory plunder friend....it specifies card in an opponents graveyard.
and for changes....take out advice from the fae, the initiates, and the merrows, for 4 Rune Snag, 3 cold eyed selkie, and 3 twincast, and 2 jace.
work cryptic in if you can get it.
And no, traumatize will could be worse if you already hit them with a grinding before, and you can twincast in response to counter. look at it like this.
t1 land, sluice (49 cards in op library max)(less mulligan)
t2 land, hold mana for snag (48 cards)
t3 land, sanity grinding for 15+, (33 or so, very possibly less)
t4 land, mana for counters/plumeveil (32)
Okay, so thats pretty bloody good and not always going to happen. Now we have this.
t5 land, Traumatize, single counter timewalks them for the turn, or leaves them (15/16) in library
vs.
t5 land, Grind + Twincast (countering one they'll have ~15, both resolve and they're likely outta cards)
He said "enable" too. 4 Us helps grinding a ton.
and is likely a dead card in your hand in other situations. There's better things to play with high colour costs that aren't worthless when not just grinding fodder.
Here is my take on sanity griding abuse. Its very different from the merfolk strategy posted originally, focusing more on the harder to answer Jace Beleren and Sanity Grinding :
20 Island
4 Shelldock Isle
//Planeswalkers
4 Jace Beleren
//Creatures
4 Grimoire Thief
4 Overbeing of Myth
4 Godhead of Awe
4 Remove Soul
4 Cancel
4 Cryptic Command
4 Sanity Griding
2 Twincast
2 Forced Fruition
4 Traumatize
3 Teferi, Mage of Zhafir
4 Plumeveil
4 Flashfreeze
I feel that Grimoire Thief is out of place. Its the only small creature on the deck, so it attracts all possible removal to it. Besides that, it needs a whole turn alive to begin to work and don´t interact much with the deck. Its still there because its a counterspell with legs(or fins, for that matter). Perhaps it should be replaced with Traumatize? Or this would mess to much with the curve? If Thief stays, what cards can i add to interact with it?
Another issue regarding the curve is Traumatize versus Forced Fruition. Adding both would make the deck far too slow (and more vulnerable to counters!) at the moment Fruition is in the deck because 1- Is good only late game, where Sanity Grinding can take care of the early game 2- Finishes the game right there 3- Its almost an Arcane Laboratory, makes controlling easier.
The five mana hybrids can actually smash face if the grinding plain fails. Overbeing was chosen because of the card advantage and Godhead because of the creature control. The grindings usually go off for between 15 and 25 with this configuration.
Should Remove Souls be replaced with something else?
Opinions are welcome.
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Shelldock Island
16 Island
CREATURES:
2 Oona, Queen of the Fae
3 Riftwing Cloudskate
3 Vedalken Mastermind
4 Plumeveil
3 Grimore Theif
4 Twincast
4 Sanity Grinding
4 Cryptic Command
4 Jester's Scepter
4 Reality Acid
3 Coldsteel Heart
2 Memory Plunder
4 Cold-Eyed Skelkie
4 Rune Snag
Any ideas/comments/help?
*edit 1*
-3 Reality Strobe
+1 Plumeveil
+2 Coldsteel Heart
*edit 2*
-2 Traumatize
+1 Reality Acid
+1 Coldsteel Heart
*Mayreturn*
I have some EDH cards and rare Magic basic lands (APAC, EURO, ARENA, etc) so message me if you're looking.
Number of members banned after I posted a BTR: 7
Looking for honest buyers, sellers, and traders.
Hmm... the Grimoire Thief looks good, I forgot about it. The only problem with it is that it's fragile, and only triggers on an attack, which would most probably mean it being blocked and killed, milling 4.
N the thing with your deck is, what cards do you have that can protect Jace? The merfolk is meant to attack so that's out.
Forced Fruition also seems a bit too slow and actually helps some decks(like RDW for example).
Elysium did give some good suggestions, thanks man. Tho is Cold-Eyed Selkie any good? Have yet to test it out, and it doesn't seem that it would help this deck... dunno? But I will definitely try the Twincasts out now.
4 Grimoire Thief
4 Plumeveil
4 Wistful Selkie
4 Overbeing of Myth
4 Memory Sluice
4 Sanity Grinding
3 Twincast
2 Jace Beleren
Comments on updated list?
My Sales Post!
hhmmm.. id recommend this..
-4 wistful selkie, +4 Vendilion Clique
okay, so wistful selkie has a cantrip plus a UUU cost.. but it wont be gamebreaking at times.. unlike vendilion clique which can take out almost all critters while fixing your hand or disrupting your opponent's hand.
also..
-4 Drowner Initiate, +4 Screeching Sliver
screeching sliver can be a stand alone mill for your opponent.. unlike drowner initiate which would most likely need extra mana to be utilized. its like comparing it to this scenario..
Drowner Initiate
T1: land, Drowner Initiate.
T2: Grimoire Thief. (what did your drowner do? attack? but thats not the point of using him isnt it?)
T3: Dream Fracture
T4: Sanity Grinding, pay 1 for Drowner a mill plus the drowner's one which woul add an extra mill of 2
see how slow it could be? unlike..
Screeching Sliver
T1: land, Screeching Sliver
T2: Grimoire Thief, tap Sliver to mill 1 card (..see? as early as turn two you have milled atleast one card)
T3: Dream Fracture, tap the sliver again:rolleyes:
T4: Sanity Grinding, tap the sliver again.
see how screeching sliver can be much more utilized rather than Initiate?
..just some advices on how to replace those cards with a better card advantage.:cool:
ChibiSwan! YOU ROCK!
...........Shin on the textless Cryptic Command
A great way to abuse Grimoire Thief is Curse of Chains.
After playing a little, I realize that I hate Traumatize.
You need Jace Beleren in there. Overbeing of Myth is going to love it. Although I prefer runnign Oona, Queen of the Fae instead of Overbeing. (I tested both and Overbeign is only a 6/6 at best. Goes down to a 3/3 than a 5/5. Gets often creamed. Only reason to play her is get mad card advantage and 5 symbols. But Oona helps milling faster and gives you an army of fae tokens. Good chump blocks to survive.
Another idea I had lately is to use Rings of Brighthearth. You can copy Jace's ability or even Sigil Tracer's ability. Another funny use of it is with Oona, Queen of the Fae. You mill for 6 then activate Rings to double mill and get double tokens. It's fun!
After some more testing, I'm starting to think that Cryptic Command is not even needed in here. We already have Broken Ambitions, Sage's Dousing and Dream Fracture. Who are all excellent. With Sigil Tracer, Twincast and Memory Plunder, there's really no need for another counter spell.
Wow, Jester's Scepter is a really good card. How come I've never heard of it?! I don't like Reality Acid though. I prefer Snakeform for removal because it makes you draw a card. And btw why don't you play Broken Ambitions?
I see you have Evacuations and a lot of counterspells though. That might work. Howling Mine is awesome I actually forgot they had reprinted it.
I just had a couple I had pulled. Ugh. They play terribly.
Reality Acid == Bounce Fodder. If you bounce it, then you have continual removal of permanents.
Snakeform only lasts until the end of turn, and I don't really think it's helpful here.
Broken Ambitions is cool, and I thought about it, but there just was not room. It's solid, but I added blockers that go better with Sanity Grinding rather than another counter spell.
Because you couldn't play a turn two battalion. Though Goyf is still hanging around.
You can play it through Manamorphose, but I'm wondering how the Chameleon Colossus gets played turn 3. Also I don't think any deck would survive that opening short of Damnation or Wrathnation.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)