Right now all we are certain is that as Core/advanced level tourament organizers they get this:
"As an organizer, you will receive a Prerelease prize support kit two weeks before your event. The kit will include twenty-four participation promo cards; twenty-four launch party flyers, twelve table numbers, five open dueling cards, twenty-four scorepads, twenty-four pens, twenty-five DCI cards, one poster, and one information document. The rare Magic participation promo card will drive players to your location the day of the event. Each kit also entitles you to a complimentary display of Magic boosters for prize and tournament volunteer support. Your prize boosters will be sent to your location along with your operational product."
-so assuming 24 player flights (to go with the 24 pre-release promo foils) you have a total of a box of product to go around as prize for the flight and to pay the judge/volunteer support for running said flight. assuming judge/volunteer support takes 12 of the 36 packs, that leaves 24 packs for the entire flights prizes. Which means that 4-0 might get 6-8 packs depending on if your prizes go down to 2-1-1/2-0-2 or not. Currently 4-0 gets 16 packs at my states pre-release... and prizes go down to 2-1-1 (3 packs) This will definately CHANGE the prize support at pre-releases, if you thought your PTO's prize support sucked before, get ready to get about 1/3 of it now.
Also local stores can look forward to
"You must also have a means to obtain product from a distributor (usually requiring a Business License and Resale Tax Certificate depending upon local legal restrictions) already. As part of the application process you will be asked to identify which distributor you have an account with and some account information. We will use this information to notify your distributor that you are permitted to receive a limited amount of product in advance of the on-sale date. The amount of product available will be determined based upon prior prerelease attendance, average overall tournament size, and some adjustment for largest tournament size."
-so if your local store's largest touraments for the past year were about 20 players, welcome to getting 1 pre-release prize support kit(enough for 24 people)... because thats all you should need. Since you can't do booster drafts, there is no need to let stores buy booster boxes/cases before launch parties.
-at least we figured out how wizards was going to keep stores from selling product early.. by drastically limiting the number of pre-release prize support kits (sealed decks for 24 people w/ a box prize) a store can buy, then there will be no flood of product 6 days before the flood of product.
oh and dont forget that now pre-releases are further restricted
" A location may only run a Prerelease on Saturday or Sunday -- not both days"
- so no more 2 day pre-releases, i guess unless you have a huge number of jewish patrons that are in temple on saturday.. so you might want to run it sunday (i don't know, sunday only pre-releases make about as much sense as these changes)
This is exactly what I was afraid of. What's my incentive for spending $10 in gas to get to and from the closest store that does a pre-release, when I can only do one flight? Oh Wizards, why hast thou forsaken me?
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This makes negative sense. The pre-release location I've gone to on multiple occasions is Pastimes in IL. They generally do many, many flights throughout the day, and even offer incentives to sign up for multiples. They also run many, many side events including booster drafts and 2HG. ADDITIONALLY, they run Saturday events, Sunday Events, and even recently Friday Midnight events.
So let me get this straight. Instead of selling all that product, they are now going to sell a couple cases of sealed and boosters?
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I guess they want to support the ailing Brick and Mortar stores. Like, REALLY REALLY REALLY want to support them to the detriment of players and sales. If this DOES make people go to the stores to play, and THAT gets some of them to keep coming, MAYBE it might make local-level organized play a SOMEWHAT more successful. That's about the only angle I can see where this makes any sense, and it seems like a mighty big and mighty risky change.
So I guess get a play set of the release card just got alot harder huh? Also it sucks because the PR card for Shards is a confirmed Mythic rare. My only question is, what happens if the store doesn't get 24 people? Do they return the extra product or use it as extra prizes?
One good thing for us is that sending product 2 weeks in advance to so many stores should help out the rumor mill. Before you only had PTOs which wouldn't risk they're livelihood to spoil some cards, but with sooo many stores, the odds of people opening and spoiling they're "volunteer support packs" will be pretty high.
This game cannot survive without Brick and Mortar. Thus this is a good thing. Game clubs etc, while occasionally successful do not offer the overall pull or reach of a brick and mortar. Casual sales are a key part of the game and casual players buy at BnM. End of story. Anything that helps brick and mortar helps the game. We that go to sites like Salvation are the minority.
So I guess get a play set of the release card just got alot harder huh? Also it sucks because the PR card for Shards is a confirmed Mythic rare. My only question is, what happens if the store doesn't get 24 people? Do they return the extra product or use it as extra prizes?
One good thing for us is that sending product 2 weeks in advance to so many stores should help out the rumor mill. Before you only had PTOs which wouldn't risk they're livelihood to spoil some cards, but with sooo many stores, the odds of people opening and spoiling they're "volunteer support packs" will be pretty high.
As I read it they don't get product in the 2-week-before kit except for the promo cards.
This game cannot survive without Brick and Mortar. Thus this is a good thing. Game clubs etc, while occasionally successful do not offer the overall pull or reach of a brick and mortar. Casual sales are a key part of the game and casual players buy at BnM. End of story. Anything that helps brick and mortar helps the game. We that go to sites like Salvation are the minority.
Ecept that the majority of the population on the Sally boards goes to thier local Large Pre-re, for the sheer amusment of it.. and with WotC Nerfing that whole process by only allowing the TO to have only1 Full Flight Available (24 ppl) they will just be forced into the wall, either losing $ on thier end by ordering extra product, (the direct stores that host them such as Starcity Games, and Cascade Games) here in seattle will end up in a hurt, without the large scale prere's that everyones used to.. so either they will just Drop it completely.. and lose profit OR. be forced to up prices for actual packs after the release. which in either case is not good for the players
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Where I live, we only have 1 store in town that hosts tournaments. We finally got a prerelease here in town for Shadowmoor and then one for Eventide where we had about 30-40 people. So suppose that we have 30-40 people show up to the prerelease...does that mean that only 24 get to play? How retarded...
Who exactly has been running Wizards for the past year or so? The sheer number of changes, along with MOST of them being poorly executed (or even being thought out at all) is staggering.
As a player, I am getting extremely tired of hearing one news blurb after another, each changing the game. First we get the extended rotation change (before the current extended was over), states change (twice?), mythic rares, 14 cards in boosters, mini blocks, WPN, etc...
I'm getting tired. -_-
The sad part is, most of the changes sound like pure money grabs to me.
Where I live, we only have 1 store in town that hosts tournaments. We finally got a prerelease here in town for Shadowmoor and then one for Eventide where we had about 30-40 people. So suppose that we have 30-40 people show up to the prerelease...does that mean that only 24 get to play? How retarded...
NO from the sounds of it all forty can play as the store has access to two support kits (For having 40 people attending the event.) Though if your place of gaming tends to average less people normally, it may just be restricted to one kit as opposed to two.
Well I think this is good because it really encourages stores to bust their humps and get in people for smaller tournaments. Bigger turn out for other events mean big fat prerelease.
NO from the sounds of it all forty can play as the store has access to two support kits (For having 40 people attending the event.)
I'm not seeing that. While you can qualify for more sealed deck product, that doesn't entitle you to more prize support kits. First 24 would probably get the promo and everyone else is in the cold.
The Iiony is that Launch Parties are getting better promo support (if not boosters.)
From the line: "The amount of product available will be determined based upon prior prerelease attendance, average overall tournament size, and some adjustment for largest tournament size."
I take this to be a good thing. What happens to the old TOs? Their previous tournaments have hundreds of people spanning dozens of flights, which means they'll get more product to compensate. When you do a standard 32 man flight, you'll need 2 kits to have enough product, so once you get the product aside, you'll have 2 boxes left over for prize. If you are a larger organizer, you are getting money from the event, so no need to skim packs from the prize. Divide the 72 packs amongst the top 8 however you see fit, typically 36 - 12 - 6 - 6 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 and you suddenly have a much more respectable prize pool for these events.
I don't know, the local BnM is basically also the local hang out for a large group of my friends, and everyone that plays there has become great friends and quite tightly knit, so for everyone that goes there, it will be much more fun to play the prere's like FNMs and release parties, instead the annoying prere's of old where everyone is stuffed into a packed, undersized hotel getting screamed at over a megaphone, playing 15 dollars for 2 shadowmoore packs and 1 eventide pack and not getting prere foils unless you get a certain record in a flight.
Just like all other changes that occured - we might have to wait and see how it works out. Lets look at the effects :
Negative:
1 day
1 flight
Smaller prizes
Smaller event
Playing with same ppl as usual - local store
Limited attendance/product
Not every store will be able to organize prerelese
Positives
Closer to home(for some of us)... Saves gas
Encorages ppl to come to local stores
Helps store owners get attendence
WoTC working with local stores to organize an event
More local/new players coming to the stores to play
Im not sure if missed anything, but the negatives DEFF outweight the positives.... 1 day and 1 flight being the worst things that could happen for a prerelease... i still dont think how this is a good thing... sorry just my thoughts.
not sure if i understand this all, but where I from there never were multiple flights. i'm not even sure what flights mean. does that mean getting new cards every flight? I'm sure lots of people cheat then by using cards from previous flights? Or am i not correct? This new way prevents cheating then
btw. I'm from the netherlands
Yeah, there is some cheating that goes on like that, but for the most part the people here in Kansas City seem pretty solid in wanting to win fairly. The thing that makes me think we're blowing this out of proportion is the note about "large scale prereleases in select areas" I saw when they made the pre-release and release formats announcment. At the Eventide prerelease the TO made an announcement that if it is still financially viable for them to have large scale pre-releases, then they will. And if that was the general response from other big TOs then hopefully Wizards will realize that a large number of people still want to go to large-scale tournaments for the pre-release. Also, if that's where they make all their money, and no longer can do PTQs, then Competitive Play as a whole might be doomed.
My biggest question would be to any TOs that read this site - what do you guys know about this? What are your concerns? Anyone?
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TOs get shafted. Players get shafted. Stores make a little extra income. And WotC lines their pockets by (presumably) selling a lot more product after the prerelease/release events. So we all see who really wins in this scenario.
I think WotC is severely underestimating the number of people who were staying in the game primarily due to prereleases.
TOs get shafted. Players get shafted. Stores make a little extra income. And WotC lines their pockets by (presumably) selling a lot more product after the prerelease/release events. So we all see who really wins in this scenario.
I think WotC is severely underestimating the number of people who were staying in the game primarily due to prereleases.
You may have a point. I noticed it just now... I haven't played an event since the EVE prerelease and do not plan to attend any form of limited event until ALA is (pre)released.
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Just because there are bodies in the door doesn't mean it's cash in the pocket. As I noticed Pre-Re's were becoming more and more expensive I stopped playing in events and basically only showed up to hang out, trade, and sell. I haven't played a Pre-Re sealed since Ravnica.
On the plus, hopfully this means TO's can't over inflate prices. If I'm going to a smaller shop, I'm guessing they aren't going to charge me a 25-50% mark up on the events.
The small shops running single-day events are ones who were not running very large events in the first place. The larger venues and the professional TOs will able to run events on both days if they want.
HEach kit also entitles you to a complimentary display of Magic boosters for prize and tournament volunteer support. Your prize boosters will be sent to your location along with your operational product."
-so assuming 24 player flights (to go with the 24 pre-release promo foils) you have a total of a box of product to go around as prize for the flight and to pay the judge/volunteer support for running said flight. assuming judge/volunteer support takes 12 of the 36 packs, that leaves 24 packs for the entire flights prizes. Which means that 4-0 might get 6-8 packs depending on if your prizes go down to 2-1-1/2-0-2 or not. Currently 4-0 gets 16 packs at my states pre-release... and prizes go down to 2-1-1 (3 packs) This will definately CHANGE the prize support at pre-releases, if you thought your PTO's prize support sucked before, get ready to get about 1/3 of it now.
This box is not likely to be the only prize support at the tournament, instead it is likely to be used to bolster the prize support at the event. When my local store funs sealed events, he sets aside about a pack and a half per person for prizes (typical 6-4-1-1 draft payout). This box could be added to that pool to increase prize payout for the prerelease event and provide a judge something for his time. Now, not every TO is going to see it this way, but I expect most of the good ones will.
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I think WotC is severely underestimating the number of people who were staying in the game primarily due to prereleases.
thats me right there, in phoenix area i have 2 options : gamers inn, which has a really annoying, obnoxious employee who talks like a sailor and tells raunchy jokes with little kids present. Oh yeah it smells like BO, really bad BO; or Game Nights, which is 20 miles away.
Seeing how there are NO 1.5 events ANYWHERE in the phoenix area, (BIG) PR were keeping me in the game. now that they re gone, im pretty much on the edge of quitting. Its not fun anymore.
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As much as I hate our local mothership store, this idea won't work.
My area of the state only has two card shops: the big centralized one, and the tiny, out of the way, backwoods one. People will continue to go to the big one. I don't think this will change anything except hurting prize support slightly.
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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/wpn/main
I'll hit the highlights to me
Right now all we are certain is that as Core/advanced level tourament organizers they get this:
"As an organizer, you will receive a Prerelease prize support kit two weeks before your event. The kit will include twenty-four participation promo cards; twenty-four launch party flyers, twelve table numbers, five open dueling cards, twenty-four scorepads, twenty-four pens, twenty-five DCI cards, one poster, and one information document. The rare Magic participation promo card will drive players to your location the day of the event. Each kit also entitles you to a complimentary display of Magic boosters for prize and tournament volunteer support. Your prize boosters will be sent to your location along with your operational product."
-so assuming 24 player flights (to go with the 24 pre-release promo foils) you have a total of a box of product to go around as prize for the flight and to pay the judge/volunteer support for running said flight. assuming judge/volunteer support takes 12 of the 36 packs, that leaves 24 packs for the entire flights prizes. Which means that 4-0 might get 6-8 packs depending on if your prizes go down to 2-1-1/2-0-2 or not. Currently 4-0 gets 16 packs at my states pre-release... and prizes go down to 2-1-1 (3 packs) This will definately CHANGE the prize support at pre-releases, if you thought your PTO's prize support sucked before, get ready to get about 1/3 of it now.
Also local stores can look forward to
"You must also have a means to obtain product from a distributor (usually requiring a Business License and Resale Tax Certificate depending upon local legal restrictions) already. As part of the application process you will be asked to identify which distributor you have an account with and some account information. We will use this information to notify your distributor that you are permitted to receive a limited amount of product in advance of the on-sale date. The amount of product available will be determined based upon prior prerelease attendance, average overall tournament size, and some adjustment for largest tournament size."
-so if your local store's largest touraments for the past year were about 20 players, welcome to getting 1 pre-release prize support kit(enough for 24 people)... because thats all you should need. Since you can't do booster drafts, there is no need to let stores buy booster boxes/cases before launch parties.
-at least we figured out how wizards was going to keep stores from selling product early.. by drastically limiting the number of pre-release prize support kits (sealed decks for 24 people w/ a box prize) a store can buy, then there will be no flood of product 6 days before the flood of product.
oh and dont forget that now pre-releases are further restricted
" A location may only run a Prerelease on Saturday or Sunday -- not both days"
- so no more 2 day pre-releases, i guess unless you have a huge number of jewish patrons that are in temple on saturday.. so you might want to run it sunday (i don't know, sunday only pre-releases make about as much sense as these changes)
** i reposted this from here
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1070295&page=3
because it was easier than typing it again:)
and just to start the ball rolling.. think about being the 25th player to show up on pre-release day.. owch
So let me get this straight. Instead of selling all that product, they are now going to sell a couple cases of sealed and boosters?
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One good thing for us is that sending product 2 weeks in advance to so many stores should help out the rumor mill. Before you only had PTOs which wouldn't risk they're livelihood to spoil some cards, but with sooo many stores, the odds of people opening and spoiling they're "volunteer support packs" will be pretty high.
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As I read it they don't get product in the 2-week-before kit except for the promo cards.
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Ecept that the majority of the population on the Sally boards goes to thier local Large Pre-re, for the sheer amusment of it.. and with WotC Nerfing that whole process by only allowing the TO to have only1 Full Flight Available (24 ppl) they will just be forced into the wall, either losing $ on thier end by ordering extra product, (the direct stores that host them such as Starcity Games, and Cascade Games) here in seattle will end up in a hurt, without the large scale prere's that everyones used to.. so either they will just Drop it completely.. and lose profit OR. be forced to up prices for actual packs after the release. which in either case is not good for the players
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As a player, I am getting extremely tired of hearing one news blurb after another, each changing the game. First we get the extended rotation change (before the current extended was over), states change (twice?), mythic rares, 14 cards in boosters, mini blocks, WPN, etc...
I'm getting tired. -_-
The sad part is, most of the changes sound like pure money grabs to me.
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NO from the sounds of it all forty can play as the store has access to two support kits (For having 40 people attending the event.) Though if your place of gaming tends to average less people normally, it may just be restricted to one kit as opposed to two.
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I'm not seeing that. While you can qualify for more sealed deck product, that doesn't entitle you to more prize support kits. First 24 would probably get the promo and everyone else is in the cold.
The Iiony is that Launch Parties are getting better promo support (if not boosters.)
I take this to be a good thing. What happens to the old TOs? Their previous tournaments have hundreds of people spanning dozens of flights, which means they'll get more product to compensate. When you do a standard 32 man flight, you'll need 2 kits to have enough product, so once you get the product aside, you'll have 2 boxes left over for prize. If you are a larger organizer, you are getting money from the event, so no need to skim packs from the prize. Divide the 72 packs amongst the top 8 however you see fit, typically 36 - 12 - 6 - 6 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 and you suddenly have a much more respectable prize pool for these events.
Negative:
1 day
1 flight
Smaller prizes
Smaller event
Playing with same ppl as usual - local store
Limited attendance/product
Not every store will be able to organize prerelese
Positives
Closer to home(for some of us)... Saves gas
Encorages ppl to come to local stores
Helps store owners get attendence
WoTC working with local stores to organize an event
More local/new players coming to the stores to play
Im not sure if missed anything, but the negatives DEFF outweight the positives.... 1 day and 1 flight being the worst things that could happen for a prerelease... i still dont think how this is a good thing... sorry just my thoughts.
Yeah, there is some cheating that goes on like that, but for the most part the people here in Kansas City seem pretty solid in wanting to win fairly. The thing that makes me think we're blowing this out of proportion is the note about "large scale prereleases in select areas" I saw when they made the pre-release and release formats announcment. At the Eventide prerelease the TO made an announcement that if it is still financially viable for them to have large scale pre-releases, then they will. And if that was the general response from other big TOs then hopefully Wizards will realize that a large number of people still want to go to large-scale tournaments for the pre-release. Also, if that's where they make all their money, and no longer can do PTQs, then Competitive Play as a whole might be doomed.
My biggest question would be to any TOs that read this site - what do you guys know about this? What are your concerns? Anyone?
TOs get shafted. Players get shafted. Stores make a little extra income. And WotC lines their pockets by (presumably) selling a lot more product after the prerelease/release events. So we all see who really wins in this scenario.
I think WotC is severely underestimating the number of people who were staying in the game primarily due to prereleases.
You may have a point. I noticed it just now... I haven't played an event since the EVE prerelease and do not plan to attend any form of limited event until ALA is (pre)released.
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On the plus, hopfully this means TO's can't over inflate prices. If I'm going to a smaller shop, I'm guessing they aren't going to charge me a 25-50% mark up on the events.
This box is not likely to be the only prize support at the tournament, instead it is likely to be used to bolster the prize support at the event. When my local store funs sealed events, he sets aside about a pack and a half per person for prizes (typical 6-4-1-1 draft payout). This box could be added to that pool to increase prize payout for the prerelease event and provide a judge something for his time. Now, not every TO is going to see it this way, but I expect most of the good ones will.
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thats me right there, in phoenix area i have 2 options : gamers inn, which has a really annoying, obnoxious employee who talks like a sailor and tells raunchy jokes with little kids present. Oh yeah it smells like BO, really bad BO; or Game Nights, which is 20 miles away.
Seeing how there are NO 1.5 events ANYWHERE in the phoenix area, (BIG) PR were keeping me in the game. now that they re gone, im pretty much on the edge of quitting. Its not fun anymore.
My area of the state only has two card shops: the big centralized one, and the tiny, out of the way, backwoods one. People will continue to go to the big one. I don't think this will change anything except hurting prize support slightly.