At the Gleemax forums most (not all) of the members are saying it's a bad card. I may be new to MTG but it's a 1BR that does 3 damage to target player and makes them discard 2 cards. Help me understand how that card can be any better without being broken. And don't get me wrong, I know everyone has their own opinions but c'mon!
The problem with it is the problem that most discard has, it's only really good early game. If you play it on turn 3, it's fantastic. But if you draw it on turn 10, it's not a big help. Generally cards that don't effect the board have to be pretty powerful to be good. Blightning will probably be good enough to make limited decks, but as a pretty late card, and any discard based decks that appear in standard. But outside of that it just isn't very good.
It's Mind Rot (a bad card) combined with Lava Spike, but without the cheap advantage of Lava Spike or the color lightness of Mind Rot. I'm not saying that it's a bad card, but if it cost... say BR it would be pretty freaking brutal. Maybe too brutal. If they let us target a creature with the damage, than it would be a lot better, but still balanced.
I think it's a rather good card, sure, alone if it's the only damage/discard card you've got and you get it late, well you're SOL. But it's one of those things that's pretty easy to fill up a deck with.
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Draw it on turn 10? What format are we talking about again? Personally, I think Blightning is quite good, it just doesnt have a deck. Yet.
Limited. Even in reasonably fast formats limited matches often go more than 10 turns. Constructed matches can go that long depending on the kinds of decks. And if your opponent is playing a deck that's not expecting to play till turn 10 blightning will go bad long before than. If there's a discard deck blightning could be good in constructed. It will be good in limited, cause it's a great turn 3 play, and a mediocre late play.
It does two different things. Three mana for two discards is average, although "they choose" discard is the worst kind; compare to Stupor. On the other hand, three mana for three damage to only the opponent is awful; compare to Incinerate, which is cheaper, instant, and more versatile.
The card does two different mediocre things and is overcosted for its lack of flexibility. If they were random discards, okay, but three mana for two discards is ineffective, and three damage to the opponent only is only good in a burn strategy which has no use for the discard.
I like it. It has huge card advantage potential written all over it. I play one spell, you loose two cards and take three damage? Sheesh. I might add black into my Magnivore deck bacause of cards like this.
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If this lets you target creature too, it'd be too good at common.
It's a good card. It MIGHT make it to a constructed deck. Probably not. It partly solves the problem of drawing discard when opponent has an empty hand. This card is never totally dead.
Stupor saw play, back when the meta was slower. The 1 random made it better than mind rot. So the question is, is the value of 3 damage enough to make up for the 1 random discard. If SoA forces a slower meta, this card will be more useful.
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It certainly doesn't have 'I'm useless' written on it.
Sometimes it will win you the game. Sometimes it will be a great third turn play. Othertimes, you'll draw it and it is virtually a dead card. It's the latter is the real problem.
I've been away from the game for almost a year and I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other B/R cards that would make the cut above it.
I disagree, I think that this card will see play in a Rakdos-like deck that utilizes cheap creatures (Gouger, etc), mild disruption (thoughtseize), and burn. In a R/B deck, the mana cost is actually easier to afford than BB or RR.
Lava Spike saw some play in Kamigawa red decks and also in extended. Mind Rot saw play as Stupor. Combined, it resembles a Lightning Helix in it's pairing, except that Lightning Bolt was really good and Healing Salve was really bd. In this case, both cards are mediocre by themselves, but great together. The card doesn't even have the combined mana cost of 4 that it should theoretically have.
That's why the card isn't that great. Ultimately, non-specific discard like this simply means that you aren't effecting the board significantly to justify the costs of playing that card. While it does net card advantage, a mere 3 damage to the face is only worth spending a card on in very specific decks, and having your opponent discard his two worst cards is probably not going to be as advantageous as you drawing two of your cards, or an effect like stupor. In most decks, on turn three I'm going to want to be playing a creature or an oblisk, something that adds to my board position to forward my game plan. Later on in the game, I'm not going to want to blightning because it means spending a turn not dealing with the cards my opponent has already played. If you can afford to use that turn to cast blightning, or were probably already winning.
I highly recommend reading the articles linked to at the bottom of the wiki.
I agree w/ PriestofGix. In a fast r/b build, this would a perfect fit. It fits right in the curve for it and has an effect on the game (maybe not on the board as someone said above, but it DOES affect the game: 3 damage, 2 card loss. Last I heard, 2:1's were good. This goes into a 3:1 with the damage tacked on..)
And at turn 10, if the correct deck playing this makes it that long of a battle, this might be that last bit of damage you need to bust through for the win.... pull their bluff out one way or another and then swing through (or unload other burn). Seems good...
This card actually looks very nice to me against opponents trying to stabilize from an early aggro rush.
People always give terrible reasons why a card that does two things is bad. I remember people dissing Lightning Helix ("Healing Salve? Why would I ever want to tack that onto my burn spells?"), Profane Command, and Primal Command.
The fact is that getting two effects from a card does great things for your tempo, card efficiency, and card versatility. I definitely wouldn't discount this spell just yet.
I agree with Karbonaut Larsen & TranceInMotion. The discard is most relevant early/mid game with the damage being just a nice bonus. Where Mind Rot falls short in the late game, this spell has the damage to potentially finish off an opponent. And, as 3noiv mentioned, you may sometimes be able to straight-up 3-for-1 an opponent by smacking up their planeswalker.
This sorta reminds me of undermine type spells. This spell nets you an additional card in your favor, but at the opportunity cost of the opponent choosing which cards to lose. As is the case with cards like Browbeat, any time you give the opponent a choice, it can be the downfall to a card.
Had it been BBR with Hymn to Tourach's ability plus the damage, there's no question about whether or not it would see play. It would probably be too good anyway.
OK, here's my logic why this card is comparable to (usually worse than) Mind Rot/Lava Spike (or incinerate in standard):
1. In a deck that has a discard spell like this, you most likely want the game to go long (why would you bother emptying the opponent's hand if you wanted to out-tempo them?), so the 3 damage will not make a significant difference (one turn of attacking with your ravenous rats or whatever at worst, and if the opponent is in top-deck mode, which is what a discard deck wants, then one turn will almost never make the game).
2. In an aggro or burn deck that wants a burn spell like this, you won't care about the 2 cards because they will just discard a land, and, like, that oblivion ring or wrath of god they won't end up needing. Without more discard, this kind of spell that lets the opponent choose is pretty bad. And most likely you are trying to out-tempo the opponent with a deck like this, so the discarding two cards just doesn't help you at all or much with that goal.
So the two abilities are not really synergistic IN ANY WAY and thus the two mana more than the lava spike or the R needed for the mind rot just DOESN'T HELP YOU at ALL!
I'd say the exception to this is if you are running more discard (Thoughtseize isn't enough) and you are trying to be fairly fast. I can't think of a single current deck that wants this card.
In mono-black aggro, the 3 damage for the +R just doesn't matter, really. Just half a swing with Korlash...
Had it been BBR with Hymn to Tourach's ability plus the damage, there's no question about whether or not it would see play. It would probably be too good anyway.
So what you're saying is that if you put together two of the best cards of all time in black and red just adding the costs, it would be a good card? Controversial.
Had it been BBR with Hymn to Tourach's ability plus the damage, there's no question about whether or not it would see play. It would probably be too good anyway.
I personally would play that but pretty much only because it had Hymn to Tourach in it! Just look at my above logic for why.
And @ Arkain, I don't consider Lava Spike a good card. I'm pretty sure you would just play it because of the Hymn
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Listen.
Would you guys pay 1B for "target player discards two cards"? Because we already know most people would pay R for 3 damage/player.
Is it the best spell in shards? Hell no. But it's a good rakdos spell, and I'm sure it'll eventually find a deck because it's incredibly mana efficient, and evidently card advantage.
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Limited. Even in reasonably fast formats limited matches often go more than 10 turns. Constructed matches can go that long depending on the kinds of decks. And if your opponent is playing a deck that's not expecting to play till turn 10 blightning will go bad long before than. If there's a discard deck blightning could be good in constructed. It will be good in limited, cause it's a great turn 3 play, and a mediocre late play.
The card does two different mediocre things and is overcosted for its lack of flexibility. If they were random discards, okay, but three mana for two discards is ineffective, and three damage to the opponent only is only good in a burn strategy which has no use for the discard.
So it's not a good card.
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Not a little Sheeple.
Honestly, it's not that much better than Mind Rot, which doesn't see play iirc.
It's a good card. It MIGHT make it to a constructed deck. Probably not. It partly solves the problem of drawing discard when opponent has an empty hand. This card is never totally dead.
Stupor saw play, back when the meta was slower. The 1 random made it better than mind rot. So the question is, is the value of 3 damage enough to make up for the 1 random discard. If SoA forces a slower meta, this card will be more useful.
Sometimes it will win you the game. Sometimes it will be a great third turn play. Othertimes, you'll draw it and it is virtually a dead card. It's the latter is the real problem.
I've been away from the game for almost a year and I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other B/R cards that would make the cut above it.
It's not a terrible card though.
Deal 3 damage to target creature or player. Target player discard 2 cards.
Then it would be good in limited. Similar to Probe. The way the card is worded now, it's not very good in limited or constructed.
Lava Spike saw some play in Kamigawa red decks and also in extended. Mind Rot saw play as Stupor. Combined, it resembles a Lightning Helix in it's pairing, except that Lightning Bolt was really good and Healing Salve was really bd. In this case, both cards are mediocre by themselves, but great together. The card doesn't even have the combined mana cost of 4 that it should theoretically have.
That's why the card isn't that great. Ultimately, non-specific discard like this simply means that you aren't effecting the board significantly to justify the costs of playing that card. While it does net card advantage, a mere 3 damage to the face is only worth spending a card on in very specific decks, and having your opponent discard his two worst cards is probably not going to be as advantageous as you drawing two of your cards, or an effect like stupor. In most decks, on turn three I'm going to want to be playing a creature or an oblisk, something that adds to my board position to forward my game plan. Later on in the game, I'm not going to want to blightning because it means spending a turn not dealing with the cards my opponent has already played. If you can afford to use that turn to cast blightning, or were probably already winning.
I highly recommend reading the articles linked to at the bottom of the wiki.
And at turn 10, if the correct deck playing this makes it that long of a battle, this might be that last bit of damage you need to bust through for the win.... pull their bluff out one way or another and then swing through (or unload other burn). Seems good...
People always give terrible reasons why a card that does two things is bad. I remember people dissing Lightning Helix ("Healing Salve? Why would I ever want to tack that onto my burn spells?"), Profane Command, and Primal Command.
The fact is that getting two effects from a card does great things for your tempo, card efficiency, and card versatility. I definitely wouldn't discount this spell just yet.
This sorta reminds me of undermine type spells. This spell nets you an additional card in your favor, but at the opportunity cost of the opponent choosing which cards to lose. As is the case with cards like Browbeat, any time you give the opponent a choice, it can be the downfall to a card.
Had it been BBR with Hymn to Tourach's ability plus the damage, there's no question about whether or not it would see play. It would probably be too good anyway.
Except that Blightning is a common and will only see play in decks that are solidly BR. Its price will not be high.
1. In a deck that has a discard spell like this, you most likely want the game to go long (why would you bother emptying the opponent's hand if you wanted to out-tempo them?), so the 3 damage will not make a significant difference (one turn of attacking with your ravenous rats or whatever at worst, and if the opponent is in top-deck mode, which is what a discard deck wants, then one turn will almost never make the game).
2. In an aggro or burn deck that wants a burn spell like this, you won't care about the 2 cards because they will just discard a land, and, like, that oblivion ring or wrath of god they won't end up needing. Without more discard, this kind of spell that lets the opponent choose is pretty bad. And most likely you are trying to out-tempo the opponent with a deck like this, so the discarding two cards just doesn't help you at all or much with that goal.
So the two abilities are not really synergistic IN ANY WAY and thus the two mana more than the lava spike or the R needed for the mind rot just DOESN'T HELP YOU at ALL!
I'd say the exception to this is if you are running more discard (Thoughtseize isn't enough) and you are trying to be fairly fast. I can't think of a single current deck that wants this card.
In mono-black aggro, the 3 damage for the +R just doesn't matter, really. Just half a swing with Korlash...
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So what you're saying is that if you put together two of the best cards of all time in black and red just adding the costs, it would be a good card? Controversial.
2) Doesn't hit creatures.
3) Not random/Choose what they discard
Those are the reasons
I personally would play that but pretty much only because it had Hymn to Tourach in it! Just look at my above logic for why.
And @ Arkain, I don't consider Lava Spike a good card. I'm pretty sure you would just play it because of the Hymn
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Would you guys pay 1B for "target player discards two cards"? Because we already know most people would pay R for 3 damage/player.
Is it the best spell in shards? Hell no. But it's a good rakdos spell, and I'm sure it'll eventually find a deck because it's incredibly mana efficient, and evidently card advantage.