If you haven't heard, the new deck that is soon to be sweeping Vintage events world-wide is Nauseous Kobolds. This deck revolves around the engine of Ad Nauseum/Skullclamp, Kobolds , and Tendrils of Agony.
The idea is to either play Ad Nauseum and draw (mostly) your entire deck, then play Kobolds and then Tendrils or to use the engine of Skullclamp + Kobolds to draw your deck and then play Tendrils of Agony.
Unfortunately, my old computer with MWS broke down and I've yet to install it on my new computer because I remember installing everything taking upwards of 5 billion hours. So I call on you, the good people of MTGSal to do some testing and make some suggestions, lets make this as competitive as possible
Cheers,
SK
P.S. If anyone knows a fast easy way of getting MWS and every Magic card every printed on it please alert me to it
How often do you kill yourself from Ad Nauseum? Hit that and a Tendrils and that is 9 life. Plus you have up to 10 damage for tutor costs. Does the deck ever have to do a double tendril win (cause of too much life loss and not enough storm from the first)?
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First of all, this is an untested first draft so don't be too critical.
Second, this is vintage. As long as I don't deal myself 20 damage I'm fine. Anyways, Ad Nauseaming into some kobolds and a skullclamp is really all you need to hit.
The 2nd Tendrils is in there in case they have a stifle for the first, although perhaps since the Pacts are there the 2nd is unneeded. I don't know, hopefully someone can report how it tests out.
I just goldfished this for about 15 games, and yeah. A Chalice at 0 would wreck this deck's day hardcore. Other than that, it's HILARIOUS to play. It has never not won on turn two in goldfishes.
How often do you kill yourself from Ad Nauseum? Hit that and a Tendrils and that is 9 life. Plus you have up to 10 damage for tutor costs. Does the deck ever have to do a double tendril win (cause of too much life loss and not enough storm from the first)?
Trust me, if you've ever goldfished this deck, its utterly insane, flip ad naus and tendrils? no problem, you've most likely flipped enough other free spells and acceleration to dig you out of the hole! Its super quick and really chalice at 0 is why most people run chain of vapor... which i notice is missing from your deck, why is that? it turns your lands into free storm!
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Pretty much by the time you have drawn the other Ad Nauseums and the other Tendrils, you've gotten enough Rituals and Moxen as well as Kobolds and Skullclamps to fuel the draw even more without losing life. It's VERY hard to kill yourself with an Ad Nauseum in this instance. I've done it once in ~20 goldfishes and it was because I wasn't paying attention to what I was drawing and overdrew when I could have combo'd out and won(3 Pacts, Tendrils, 5 Rituals, 3 Moxen, Handful of Kobolds).
No it doesn't you're resolving an effect of the card.
Chalice at 0 does next to nothing, only slowing it down a turn to get basic mana up so you can ritual, remember - nauseum is an instant. EoT draw my deck, next turn go off. Countering the kobolds is irrelevant, it still adds to the storm count.
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T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
No it doesn't you're resolving an effect of the card.
Chalice at 0 does next to nothing, only slowing it down a turn to get basic mana up so you can ritual, remember - nauseum is an instant. EoT draw my deck, next turn go off. Countering the kobolds is irrelevant, it still adds to the storm count.
This is true. I just remembered that when I was remembering that I could counter a kobold with a pact to get two storm. I may proxy this up tonight and bring it to play on Friday against a wicked wide variety.
you go off same turn, not next turn... otherwise you discard your deck
actually, if you resolve Ad Nauseum on your opponents turn, and manage to go off with a sorcery, i'd be rather impressed. the reason you do it the way i stated above is because you will be unable to get the mana from 0 drop artifacts if chalice is set to 0. therefore, if you dark ritual and cabal ritual eot of your opponents turn for 5 mana, cast nauseum, and then on your turn go off, you will not lose to chalice at 0. if you try to go off on your turn without at least 6 mana available, you lose.
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T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Awesome, I didn't expect nearly this much interest
How has my build been performing for you guys?
Do we need more tutors? Have you had to rely on getting Ad Nauseam or does starting the engine off with skullclamp + kobolds work as well?
Ok added a repeal substituting for the 2nd Grim Tutor. Played a few games against BUG Fish (Goyfs, Confidants, Cursecatchers), counters were too much in games 1 & 2 and game 3 saw Null Rod shut down Kobolds/Clamp/Moxen - thus no hope of repealing the Null Rod, Confidant beatdown finished Nauseous Kobolds - although the Kobolds themselves made it close by slowing the beats allowing Bob to do some damage. Duress early to get a Tendrils really hurt in game 2, maybe some recursion?
Tested another vs Cerebral Assasin, Kobolds went off on turn 2 but couldn't finish the deal knocking assasin to 2 on the Tendrils, Assasin went with the Platinum Angel Plan, but with the added +18 life from the first Tendrils, another Add Nauseum (pun intended) found Repeal and the finishing Tendrils was overkill.
Tested a third time vs a Mana Drain Tendrils deck, and went off before the countermagic could get online in both games.
No games were sideboarded.
Suggestions, I might consider adding Repeal (or Vapor) and Ancestral, adding 4 Underground seas (of course you become more wasteland vulnerable but your still decent on basics), Mox Diamond might another possible add, as Add Nauseum will/can leave a glut of basic land in your hand when you might need mana to clamp or search for Tendrils.
Some recursion might be advisable, since your Tendrils are vulnerable, Green gives you Regrowth and Fastbond (but the additional pain might not be feasible), further Blue (if you take my advice on the Ancestral & Repeal/Vapor) could use Timetwister and Black of course offers Yawgmoth's.
I used to run this deck with Glimpse of Nature and 4 Phyrexian Walker and 4 Ornithopter. It would cut down on Ad Nauseum damage because you'd get an additional draw for each of the creatures you know you'll be casting anyway (plus they have a casting cost of zero) so you won't have to reach as far with the Ad Nauseum.
My version also had blue for Ancestrall Recall and Brainstorm (which helps against duress if you are on the play).
I ran into the same problems you are all referring to: Chalice of the Void and Null Rod. They both are pretty effective at neutering this deck. I found this deck fun due to all the first and second turn kills, but without a secondary win condition, I lost a lot of games where I either went off too early or failed to draw into the mana acceleration necessary to go off at all. Fastbond is another card to consider adding; once it is played, the game is virtually over. I also like the Mox Diamond idea (I wish I'd thought of that) for chucking extra lands.
Finally got MWS again, so I've started testing.
I'm definately adding Repeal and Yawgmoth's Will, though thats all atm.
mox Diamond looks interesting, but I'm still not sure we always have extra lands to pitch. I'll see how it looks though.
Finally got MWS again, so I've started testing.
I'm definately adding Repeal and Yawgmoth's Will, though thats all atm.
mox Diamond looks interesting, but I'm still not sure we always have extra lands to pitch. I'll see how it looks though.
i wouldnt bother with Mox Diamond, just run 4x Chrome Mox. That way you can just imprint useless cards rather then having to discard a land.
The thing with Chrome Mox here is that all the Black cards are important to the strategy, Pact of Negation is needed, and Skullclamp is colorless. The only things you could imprint are the Kobolds, which isn't bad but isn't wonderful either.
I'm not sure the deck needs either Fake Mox.
One thing I found myself impriting alot is Cabal Ritual when I knew I could combo out without it, and at the time I didn't have Thresh. But other than that it was pretty bad.
I just goldfished this for about 15 games, and yeah. A Chalice at 0 would wreck this deck's day hardcore. Other than that, it's HILARIOUS to play. It has never not won on turn two in goldfishes.
How exactly does Chalice for Zero hurt this deck? You'll still be able to accumulate a massive storm count for a Tendrils of Agony.
I'd suggest splashing green so that you can run Multani's Presence in the SB if you're really that worried about Chalice.
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The idea is to either play Ad Nauseum and draw (mostly) your entire deck, then play Kobolds and then Tendrils or to use the engine of Skullclamp + Kobolds to draw your deck and then play Tendrils of Agony.
I'm thinking something like this:
12 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
3 Ad Nauseam
2 Tendrils of Agony
4 Skullclamp
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
Search - 5
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
2 Grim Tutor
4 Pact of Negation
Unfortunately, my old computer with MWS broke down and I've yet to install it on my new computer because I remember installing everything taking upwards of 5 billion hours. So I call on you, the good people of MTGSal to do some testing and make some suggestions, lets make this as competitive as possible
Cheers,
SK
P.S. If anyone knows a fast easy way of getting MWS and every Magic card every printed on it please alert me to it
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Second, this is vintage. As long as I don't deal myself 20 damage I'm fine. Anyways, Ad Nauseaming into some kobolds and a skullclamp is really all you need to hit.
The 2nd Tendrils is in there in case they have a stifle for the first, although perhaps since the Pacts are there the 2nd is unneeded. I don't know, hopefully someone can report how it tests out.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Trust me, if you've ever goldfished this deck, its utterly insane, flip ad naus and tendrils? no problem, you've most likely flipped enough other free spells and acceleration to dig you out of the hole! Its super quick and really chalice at 0 is why most people run chain of vapor... which i notice is missing from your deck, why is that? it turns your lands into free storm!
"You painted a racing stripe on our baby?!?!"
My favorite A-Team member? VAN.
Does the Ad Nauseam repetitions count toward storm?
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yeah, that's what I mean....and I don't think so too but I (we) could be wrong.
Current signed cards count (31.12.16):
Artist alters: 828
Beta Project: 2574/2853
Grand Total signed cards: 42'091
All my stuff in a FB group
Me@WOTC
Chalice at 0 does next to nothing, only slowing it down a turn to get basic mana up so you can ritual, remember - nauseum is an instant. EoT draw my deck, next turn go off. Countering the kobolds is irrelevant, it still adds to the storm count.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
actually, if you resolve Ad Nauseum on your opponents turn, and manage to go off with a sorcery, i'd be rather impressed. the reason you do it the way i stated above is because you will be unable to get the mana from 0 drop artifacts if chalice is set to 0. therefore, if you dark ritual and cabal ritual eot of your opponents turn for 5 mana, cast nauseum, and then on your turn go off, you will not lose to chalice at 0. if you try to go off on your turn without at least 6 mana available, you lose.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
How has my build been performing for you guys?
Do we need more tutors? Have you had to rely on getting Ad Nauseam or does starting the engine off with skullclamp + kobolds work as well?
Tested another vs Cerebral Assasin, Kobolds went off on turn 2 but couldn't finish the deal knocking assasin to 2 on the Tendrils, Assasin went with the Platinum Angel Plan, but with the added +18 life from the first Tendrils, another Add Nauseum (pun intended) found Repeal and the finishing Tendrils was overkill.
Tested a third time vs a Mana Drain Tendrils deck, and went off before the countermagic could get online in both games.
No games were sideboarded.
Suggestions, I might consider adding Repeal (or Vapor) and Ancestral, adding 4 Underground seas (of course you become more wasteland vulnerable but your still decent on basics), Mox Diamond might another possible add, as Add Nauseum will/can leave a glut of basic land in your hand when you might need mana to clamp or search for Tendrils.
Some recursion might be advisable, since your Tendrils are vulnerable, Green gives you Regrowth and Fastbond (but the additional pain might not be feasible), further Blue (if you take my advice on the Ancestral & Repeal/Vapor) could use Timetwister and Black of course offers Yawgmoth's.
Kobolds can make you sick to your stomach!
My version also had blue for Ancestrall Recall and Brainstorm (which helps against duress if you are on the play).
I ran into the same problems you are all referring to: Chalice of the Void and Null Rod. They both are pretty effective at neutering this deck. I found this deck fun due to all the first and second turn kills, but without a secondary win condition, I lost a lot of games where I either went off too early or failed to draw into the mana acceleration necessary to go off at all. Fastbond is another card to consider adding; once it is played, the game is virtually over. I also like the Mox Diamond idea (I wish I'd thought of that) for chucking extra lands.
Yawgmoth's Will is a must for this deck.
I'm definately adding Repeal and Yawgmoth's Will, though thats all atm.
mox Diamond looks interesting, but I'm still not sure we always have extra lands to pitch. I'll see how it looks though.
i wouldnt bother with Mox Diamond, just run 4x Chrome Mox. That way you can just imprint useless cards rather then having to discard a land.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
I'm not sure the deck needs either Fake Mox.
This deck is super fun to play though
Thanks Darth Monkey
How exactly does Chalice for Zero hurt this deck? You'll still be able to accumulate a massive storm count for a Tendrils of Agony.
I'd suggest splashing green so that you can run Multani's Presence in the SB if you're really that worried about Chalice.
7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
It works quite well actually.