This deck utilizes the speed of red's aggressive creatures and burn spells as well as black's disruption and powerful enchantment Bitterblossom in order to win games as quickly and easily as possible.
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so bitterblossom and blightning are the only major things seperating this from RDW? it's a shame...if adding black is going to happen why not add a draw engine...i've been running B/R aggro with blightnings for a while and i have several draw engines including sygg, river cutthroat, graveborn muse, and dusk urchins...i also use cruel edict as a way to get rid of Oversoul and Chameleon...plus i'm suprised to not see demigod as a finisher
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:symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:domain zoo (yes it exists in standard):symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:
:symr::symbr::symb: Blightning :symb::symrb::symr:
There aren't draw engines because that has never been the point of decks like these. Also, the aforementioned draw engines are not very good as they don't go along with the rest of the deck in any way. They are simply unnecessary draw engines. IMO, the biggest reason to splash black is Infest and if you want to do that then you may as well throw in Blightning and then decide that Bitterblossom fills up the 2 drop splot very nicely. I am having a hard time buying Siege-gang over Demigod though.
I am having a hard time buying Siege-gang over Demigod though.
My thoughts exactly. I don't see the advantage of the Commander over the God. It's not like he needs the 2 damage from the ability for burn. He has enough of that. He doesn't need the tokens as chump blockers, since he has Bitterblossom.
My guess is it creates a wider spectrum of creatures to block? As Demigod can be chumped by blossom tokens? Thats all I can think of. I mean Siege gang if not answered on turn 5 is a turn 6, unblockable 6 damage. (sac ability) Maybe?
Ive tested this deck even before it placed at worlds, and i gotta say it works really well. The curve is just right, and blightning is great.
Seige gang is there to untap Hovel, 4-1 card advantage (kinda like spectral process is 3-1 in kithkn) and as removal. It works great with Ram gang and redcaps. I usually hold Seige gang intill after Wrath or infest. Post wrath its great (kinda like ranger is in kith again =)
I must ask what do you SB out/in in the FAE mu? or RDW mu? and 5 color? Just wondering cuz i cant make up my mind and keep taking out diff things...
Meh, SGC is hardly as effective as Demigod in this format. No matter which way you slice it. Unless you have a Reveillark online of course. ^^
Agreed on Thoughtseize... It's one of the best reasons to use black right now, and alongside Blightning, it can spell disaster for any deck, even the mirror game 1.
However, Ram-Gang is still better than Gouger I think. It puts more pressure on Faeries since it can attack a whole turn earlier without giving them a turn to breathe, and to be quite honest, Gouger isn't exactly safe from Warp anyways. Ram-Gangs applications in other MUs is why it's the best.
Magma Spray is definitely a "No thank you" right now. I'm guessing it was last minute "OMG, I see a lot of Reveillarks around!" thing...? It's really not that good. At all.
i'd need to test it as is, but one possible idea is removing the redcaps and magma sprays for Wort, Boggart Auntie and Tarfire. keeps the mana curve the same, but allows you to have some recursion that can really hurt. plus for an aggressive deck i'd rather have burn able to go to the face than able to deal with finks or lark.
and i agree, thoughtseize in the board is a good idea. i'd take out the gouger's (-3) and the spiteful visions (-2) for thoughtsieze (+4) and another shriekmaw or warhammer (+1).
Some1 made a point that all decks besides Kithikin are running Bitterblossom right now. Best way for control to battle bitterblossom is to run it... So i dont agree that Demigod is A LOT more effective right now then SGC. I like sgc in this deck.
Magma spray is to slap Finks, rfg annoying cards that come back with lark, and to PWN Redcaps in the mirror.
I have tested thoughtsieze, i dont like it since i have no black mana turn 1... no swamps. and with limited black sources i cant make it work without destroyign mana consistancy, and the trick is to have all lands produce red for figure/jav/ram gang.
I had a q, what MU do you sb spitefull visions in? and what to take out?
My guess is that Siege Gang is present to untap the Hovels and in anticipation of the format's pinpoint removal being mostly RFG. In which case you lose the ability to reccur Demigods but if hit by one of those a SGC at least leaves 3 tokens behind.
Magma Spray was so effective in hating out Finks that now no one plays them and it has become terrible, lol.
it was my first time running the deck and was happy with the outcome
i ended up 7-2 ( matches (including top eight playoff rounds)
Round one vs RDW 2-0 (2-0)
both games went the same...he had more speed but ran out of steam whereas BB and sygg get me going
Round two Faeries 2-0 (4-0)
game one was just a good matchup and it just got worse when i brought in infest...played all my burn on their turn forcing the counters...it just went my way
Round three vs Kithkin 1-2 (5-2)
game one i just couldn't keep up procession hurt me cause it let him windbrisk in goldmane and i couldn't handle his creatures and ajani's life gain game two i lucked out he never saw ajani or forge tender and i drew all three infests, game three went worse than game one...he won it with like 22 life left...ajani + knight of meadowgrain + finks + wispmare taking out my everlasting torment...
Round four vs Sonic Boom (mono U control) 2-0 (7-2)
yeah i was suprised to see it too but it just was too slow all it really took was using prowler to put a demigod into the grave and playing a second one
Top 8 playoffs
Quarter finals vs...Mono U control...again 2-0 (9-2)
guy was a good player and his only losses on the night were to me cause of a horrible matchup
Semi Finals vs Planeswalkers 2-1 (11-3)
blightning wrecks them if it resolves game one i blightning'd killing off her jace and burn plus prowler/gouger beatdown won it game two i saw a story circle and it ruined me i never thought to side in torments against walkers game three i boarded in torments to got through story circle just fine
Finals vs Bant 1-2 (12-5)
game one i was to quick i killed off everything he had and demigod'd for the win before any huge threats surfaced game two he boarded in hindering light which i didn't see coming...i didn't flame jav a war monk on my turn and paid for it game three my torment got o-ring'd and he got off rhox war monk + loxodon warhammer on me...once again hindering light got me and he got me once with the monk...it was enough to hold me off
overall i was happy with how the night went...
some things i learned...
prowler and blightning put's a lot of pressure on the opponent
it's real easy to trigger sygg...pretty much everything in the deck does 3 or more damage
graveborn muse + BB hurts but the card advantage is definitely worth it
Everlasting torment + dusk urchins is fun tech
and...I hate playing against kithkin
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:symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:domain zoo (yes it exists in standard):symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:
:symr::symbr::symb: Blightning :symb::symrb::symr:
My thoughts exactly. I don't see the advantage of the Commander over the God. It's not like he needs the 2 damage from the ability for burn. He has enough of that. He doesn't need the tokens as chump blockers, since he has Bitterblossom.
Can anyone explain this?
The Siege-Gangs are there for revealing to Auntie's Hovel, naturally. This deck is half Blightning and half RB Goblins, as it lacks the Prowler-Demigod interaction and instead uses a bunch of 1/1 goblins.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time. UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC. WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck. RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to victory 0-2 drop.
???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
I doubt that Siege gang is predominately there for simply untapping Auntie's Hovel. A black splash can be achieved by running cairns and springs. Although Hovel is better when possible, I assume that its inclusion is something that comes after siege-gang's addition - not the reason for his inclusion.
Siege gang can be arguably better against other token based decks and other decks where the babies can be used as 6 damage to the dome +blocking. He does have his advantages over Demigod, but overall I feel that Demigod is a much stronger creature due to haste, not needing mana poured into it and being still a threat in the graveyard.
I honestly would have ran something more like this. I any other splash but blue more though. It gives you better cards.
i don't see a real finisher here...demigod and siege gang are pretty much gamebreaking when they hit and stick...and no incinerate? i thought that was the standard issue burn spell in standard these days
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:symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:domain zoo (yes it exists in standard):symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:
:symr::symbr::symb: Blightning :symb::symrb::symr:
The Siege-Gangs are there for revealing to Auntie's Hovel, naturally. This deck is half Blightning and half RB Goblins, as it lacks the Prowler-Demigod interaction and instead uses a bunch of 1/1 goblins.
That makes more sense. I guess I was looking at it as RDW with black splash. But looking at it more like a gobbie deck makes siege-gang the better choice.
ya it seems that BB is the most important reason to run black....
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My thoughts exactly. I don't see the advantage of the Commander over the God. It's not like he needs the 2 damage from the ability for burn. He has enough of that. He doesn't need the tokens as chump blockers, since he has Bitterblossom.
The Siege-Gangs are there for revealing to Auntie's Hovel, naturally. This deck is half Blightning and half RB Goblins, as it lacks the Prowler-Demigod interaction and instead uses a bunch of 1/1 goblins.
aside from what was mentioned about Auntie's Hovel and goblins, Siege-Gang Commander, Bitterblossom, and Blightning create virtual card advantage via tokens and discard coupled with tempo damage. its deal with us now/kill us faster, or you will lose. its one of those decks that are imposing because you WILL know what will hit you.
Wouldn't Wild Ricochet be a winner in this deck, particularly against Cruel Ultimatum? If nothing else, you can use in on your own spells (I'll hit you with Javelin. No counter? Wild Ricochet it; take 8.)
Wouldn't Wild Ricochet be a winner in this deck, particularly against Cruel Ultimatum? If nothing else, you can use in on your own spells (I'll hit you with Javelin. No counter? Wild Ricochet it; take 8.)
you can copy Cruel Ultimatum, but not redirect it. so you both lost/gain life, draw/discard, sac/get a creature.
I did a green splash with savage lands and reflecting pool to run sideboard cards like Resounding Thunder and Naturalize, it's been working great so far.
I run tarfire instead of of Magma spray main, because kitchen finks have lost popularity and tarfire can untap the Auntie's Hovel and hit to the face.
I'm running demigod MD and siege-gang on the sideboard based on my meta, and this works great against runned halo, you know, on the second game, they play runned halo naming Demigod and Surprise!! Im running siege-gang commander instead, and ofc it kicks asses after wrath.
The deck has 9 1 drops, 8 2 drops, 12 3 drops, 3 4drops and 4 5drops, it's been working smoothly so far and is a machine against faeries.
With 24 lands you rarely miss a land drop, and i have tested it with ghitu encampments but most of the time they just ended up being CiPT mountains
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Ghitu Encampment
4 Graven Cairns
6 Mountain
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Sulfurous Springs
Creatures
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Figure of Destiny
3 Murderous Redcap
4 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Flame Javelin
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Spray
4 Blightning
4 Bitterblossom
3 Ashenmoor Gouger
2 Shriekmaw
4 Vithian Stinger
3 Infest
2 Spiteful Visions
1 Loxodon Warhammer
This deck utilizes the speed of red's aggressive creatures and burn spells as well as black's disruption and powerful enchantment Bitterblossom in order to win games as quickly and easily as possible.
Keep all posts on-topic. Decks posted in this thread are to be of similar design and all posts herein are to be related to this archetype. Anything else will be marked as spam and infracted.
Read my Constructed column on Star City, Thirst for Knowledge!
View my MTGS-era TFK articles here!
:symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:domain zoo (yes it exists in standard):symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:
:symr::symbr::symb: Blightning :symb::symrb::symr:
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My thoughts exactly. I don't see the advantage of the Commander over the God. It's not like he needs the 2 damage from the ability for burn. He has enough of that. He doesn't need the tokens as chump blockers, since he has Bitterblossom.
Can anyone explain this?
Seige gang is there to untap Hovel, 4-1 card advantage (kinda like spectral process is 3-1 in kithkn) and as removal. It works great with Ram gang and redcaps. I usually hold Seige gang intill after Wrath or infest. Post wrath its great (kinda like ranger is in kith again =)
I must ask what do you SB out/in in the FAE mu? or RDW mu? and 5 color? Just wondering cuz i cant make up my mind and keep taking out diff things...
Agreed on Thoughtseize... It's one of the best reasons to use black right now, and alongside Blightning, it can spell disaster for any deck, even the mirror game 1.
However, Ram-Gang is still better than Gouger I think. It puts more pressure on Faeries since it can attack a whole turn earlier without giving them a turn to breathe, and to be quite honest, Gouger isn't exactly safe from Warp anyways. Ram-Gangs applications in other MUs is why it's the best.
Magma Spray is definitely a "No thank you" right now. I'm guessing it was last minute "OMG, I see a lot of Reveillarks around!" thing...? It's really not that good. At all.
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and i agree, thoughtseize in the board is a good idea. i'd take out the gouger's (-3) and the spiteful visions (-2) for thoughtsieze (+4) and another shriekmaw or warhammer (+1).
Magma spray is to slap Finks, rfg annoying cards that come back with lark, and to PWN Redcaps in the mirror.
I have tested thoughtsieze, i dont like it since i have no black mana turn 1... no swamps. and with limited black sources i cant make it work without destroyign mana consistancy, and the trick is to have all lands produce red for figure/jav/ram gang.
I had a q, what MU do you sb spitefull visions in? and what to take out?
Magma Spray was so effective in hating out Finks that now no one plays them and it has become terrible, lol.
4 sulfurous springs
4 graven cairns
3 reflecting pool
2 ghitu encampment
4 mountains
3 swamps
Creatures - 20
2 sygg, river cutthroat
4 oona's prowler
4 ashenmoor gouger
3 graveborn muse
3 murderous redcap
4 demigod of revenge
4 tarfire
4 incinerate
4 flame javelin
4 blightning
4 bitterblossom
3 magma spray
3 infest
3 everlasting torment
3 cruel edict
3 dusk urchins
i ended up 7-2 ( matches (including top eight playoff rounds)
Round one vs RDW 2-0 (2-0)
both games went the same...he had more speed but ran out of steam whereas BB and sygg get me going
Round two Faeries 2-0 (4-0)
game one was just a good matchup and it just got worse when i brought in infest...played all my burn on their turn forcing the counters...it just went my way
Round three vs Kithkin 1-2 (5-2)
game one i just couldn't keep up procession hurt me cause it let him windbrisk in goldmane and i couldn't handle his creatures and ajani's life gain game two i lucked out he never saw ajani or forge tender and i drew all three infests, game three went worse than game one...he won it with like 22 life left...ajani + knight of meadowgrain + finks + wispmare taking out my everlasting torment...
Round four vs Sonic Boom (mono U control) 2-0 (7-2)
yeah i was suprised to see it too but it just was too slow all it really took was using prowler to put a demigod into the grave and playing a second one
Top 8 playoffs
Quarter finals vs...Mono U control...again 2-0 (9-2)
guy was a good player and his only losses on the night were to me cause of a horrible matchup
Semi Finals vs Planeswalkers 2-1 (11-3)
blightning wrecks them if it resolves game one i blightning'd killing off her jace and burn plus prowler/gouger beatdown won it game two i saw a story circle and it ruined me i never thought to side in torments against walkers game three i boarded in torments to got through story circle just fine
Finals vs Bant 1-2 (12-5)
game one i was to quick i killed off everything he had and demigod'd for the win before any huge threats surfaced game two he boarded in hindering light which i didn't see coming...i didn't flame jav a war monk on my turn and paid for it game three my torment got o-ring'd and he got off rhox war monk + loxodon warhammer on me...once again hindering light got me and he got me once with the monk...it was enough to hold me off
overall i was happy with how the night went...
some things i learned...
prowler and blightning put's a lot of pressure on the opponent
it's real easy to trigger sygg...pretty much everything in the deck does 3 or more damage
graveborn muse + BB hurts but the card advantage is definitely worth it
Everlasting torment + dusk urchins is fun tech
and...I hate playing against kithkin
:symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:domain zoo (yes it exists in standard):symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:
:symr::symbr::symb: Blightning :symb::symrb::symr:
The Siege-Gangs are there for revealing to Auntie's Hovel, naturally. This deck is half Blightning and half RB Goblins, as it lacks the Prowler-Demigod interaction and instead uses a bunch of 1/1 goblins.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time.
UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC.
WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck.
RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to
victory0-2 drop.???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
Siege gang can be arguably better against other token based decks and other decks where the babies can be used as 6 damage to the dome +blocking. He does have his advantages over Demigod, but overall I feel that Demigod is a much stronger creature due to haste, not needing mana poured into it and being still a threat in the graveyard.
Sale/Buy List!!!
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Sell/Buy List--V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7460848#post7460848
Twitter!!
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3 Ghitu Encampment
4 Graven Cairns
6 Mountain
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Stigma Lasher
4 Terror
4 Tarfire
4 Blightning
4 Bitterblossom
4 Thoughtseize
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Vithian Stinger
3 Infest
1 Loxodon Warhammer
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=139825
i don't see a real finisher here...demigod and siege gang are pretty much gamebreaking when they hit and stick...and no incinerate? i thought that was the standard issue burn spell in standard these days
:symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:domain zoo (yes it exists in standard):symw::symb::symg::symr::symu:
:symr::symbr::symb: Blightning :symb::symrb::symr:
That makes more sense. I guess I was looking at it as RDW with black splash. But looking at it more like a gobbie deck makes siege-gang the better choice.
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Figure of Destiny
3 Murderous Redcap
1 Wort Boggart Auntie
4 Siege-Gang Commander
Other Spells
4 Flame Javelin
4 Incinerate
4 Blightning
4 Bitterblossom
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Ghitu Encampment
4 Graven Cairns
6 Mountain
2 Reflecting Pool
4 Sulfurous Springs
2 Shriekmaw
2 Vithian Stinger
3 Infest
1 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Mad Auntie
4 Thoughtseize
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aside from what was mentioned about Auntie's Hovel and goblins, Siege-Gang Commander, Bitterblossom, and Blightning create virtual card advantage via tokens and discard coupled with tempo damage. its deal with us now/kill us faster, or you will lose. its one of those decks that are imposing because you WILL know what will hit you.
what i'm running:
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Bitterblossom
4 Blightning
4 Flame Javelin
4 Incinerate
2 Magma Spray
2 Profane Command
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Sulfurous Springs
2 Ghitu Encampment
8 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Infest
2 Grave Pact
3 Thoughtseize
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Guttural Response
Wouldn't Wild Ricochet be a winner in this deck, particularly against Cruel Ultimatum? If nothing else, you can use in on your own spells (I'll hit you with Javelin. No counter? Wild Ricochet it; take 8.)
you can copy Cruel Ultimatum, but not redirect it. so you both lost/gain life, draw/discard, sac/get a creature.
Essentially it's +0 card advantage. I guess that's better than +8 for your opponent. I wouldn't run the Ricochet maindeck, however.
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4x Auntie's Hovel
4x Savage Lands
3x Sulfurous Spring
3x Sulfurous Spring
3x Reflecting Pool
3x Mountain
4x Demigod of Revenge
4x Boggart Ram-Gang
3x Murderous Redcap
3x Figure of Destiny
3x Mogg Fanatic
4x Bitterblossom
4x Flame Javelin
4x Incinerate
3x Tarfire
3x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Resounding Thunder
3x Jund Charm
2x Everlasting Torment
3x Guttural Response
2x Naturalize
I did a green splash with savage lands and reflecting pool to run sideboard cards like Resounding Thunder and Naturalize, it's been working great so far.
I run tarfire instead of of Magma spray main, because kitchen finks have lost popularity and tarfire can untap the Auntie's Hovel and hit to the face.
I'm running demigod MD and siege-gang on the sideboard based on my meta, and this works great against runned halo, you know, on the second game, they play runned halo naming Demigod and Surprise!! Im running siege-gang commander instead, and ofc it kicks asses after wrath.
The deck has 9 1 drops, 8 2 drops, 12 3 drops, 3 4drops and 4 5drops, it's been working smoothly so far and is a machine against faeries.
With 24 lands you rarely miss a land drop, and i have tested it with ghitu encampments but most of the time they just ended up being CiPT mountains