Defeating Neo

[DalkonCledwin]

This thread is for the discussion of my latest article, Defeating Neo. We would be grateful if you would let us know what you think, but please keep your comments on topic.

[Naz]

I much appreciate a Legacy article and I will read it in more depth once I have the time.

I do feel like using Team America for such analysis is... a bit weird. The deck seriously isn't that strong, it's a meta deck that doesn't even win the matchups that it should win consistently. I'd be much more interested in a deck like ANT, the effects of Ad Nasseum to the format still aren't that clear. And I also think Ichorid will be DtB in Chicago.

Maybe it's because I see TA every day already and already figured the deck out entirely, I guess.

[Eldariel]

Wait, MUC discarded FACT due to having excess cards in hand, Counterspelled a Brainstorm and then proceeded to lose? Way to punt a game...

[lonelybaritone]

I feel as though this wasn't a properly done study, as there are some egregious play errors all over the place.

And Team America's basically just a meta deck designed to beat Thresh and decks of that ilk (y'know - decks with weak, small manabases).

[PhanTom]

Is dezho a duplicate account for the one you had previously?

I'll confirm to what lonelybaritone had said, there's many play errors, the pilots obviously not being familiar with piloting the decks. Also, a sample of 5 games is too irrelevant/small, if you want to make reasonable assumptions, if you actually know statistics.

And it's not like TA is suddenly the Deck To Beat, that you immediately have to follow up with articles on how to beat it. Most decks can be hated upon in that way.

[DalkonCledwin]

Originally Posted by PhanTom_lt

I'll confirm to what lonelybaritone had said, there's many play errors, the pilots obviously not being familiar with piloting the decks. Also, a sample of 5 games is too irrelevant/small, if you want to make reasonable assumptions, if you actually know statistics.

And it's not like TA is suddenly the Deck To Beat, that you immediately have to follow up with articles on how to beat it. Most decks can be hated upon in that way.

How many games would you like to have seen? I can try to accomadate that many for the follow up articles.

As for the reason for this article... Team America has made top 8 in at least 3 of the last 33+ man tournaments (hence why it is now a DTW on the Source). However I have a feeling that it has actually at this point accomplished enough tournament top-8's to officially be considered a DTB on the Source, just not in time for the December Update. The difference between Team America and ANT, is that ANT has as far as I know not been showing up in as high profile tournaments... and even if it had, I am not particularly fond of Storm decks, and as such probably would not be the optimal person to perform a deck study on that deck. As has already been pointed out, I have made several play mistakes with the decks in the study on Team America... I hope to correct those mistakes in the follow up articles to this one, but we shall see, unless there is significant out cry that I do not do a follow up article to this article?

As for the question of whom Dezho is, I am not familiar with this person, I honestly do not know who he is, but appreciate him making a discussion thread for my article. Anyways thank you all for your comments thus far, and I apologize for the article being a disapointment to you all so far.

[jokalhaups]

Just curious... do decks run Leyline of the Void anymore? Wasn't that a staple to stop Dredge and reanimator decks like Stax (damn Goblin Welder). Would it be an error if someone ran Voids in their main deck? How big of a problem is it if a player lands the turn 0 Leyline and then you (as Team America) have 4x cards (i.e. Tombstalkers) that are unplayable? I know you didn't run into it during play testing, but isn't this a reasonable concern? Would you side stalkers out if you see Leyline game 1?

[DalkonCledwin]

Originally Posted by jokalhaups

Just curious... do decks run Leyline of the Void anymore? Wasn't that a staple to stop Dredge and reanimator decks like Stax (damn Goblin Welder). Would it be an error if someone ran Voids in their main deck? How big of a problem is it if a player lands the turn 0 Leyline and then you (as Team America) have 4x cards (i.e. Tombstalkers) that are unplayable? I know you didn't run into it during play testing, but isn't this a reasonable concern? Would you side stalkers out if you see Leyline game 1?

honestly I really don't know how to answer that. I always pictured Leyline as being really more of a sideboard card as opposed to a maindeck card, but I suppose there is a deck somewhere out there that could use Leyline as a main deck card....

[URABAHN]

Yup, big disappointment. The piece reeks of either bias or incompetence, I'm not sure which. The author's feelings regarding Team America aren't a secret and makes me feel like the testing was biased. That, on top of some major play errors make me completely disregard this article as having absolutely no merit. I think 5 game samples are woefully inadequate as a sample size, because anyone who's tested 10 Pre/10 Post will tell you the first 4-6 can be awfully deceiving.

[Apex]

Leyline isn't ran in the main for I think any deck (unless you have that weird Helm of Obedience/Leyline combo), and post board, there should be more effective hate to bring in than Leylines. I mean, a removal spell that kills black creatures should work just as well, and it would kill Tarmogoyf too (who can feed off your graveyard even if you've got a leyline in play).

Leyline is more for the Ichorid matchup.

As for the article, good attempt, just tighten up some of your playtesting matches for the next couple of article, and it should be good.

[DalkonCledwin]

Originally Posted by URABAHN

Yup, big disappointment. The piece reeks of either bias or incompetence, I'm not sure which. The author's feelings regarding Team America aren't a secret and makes me feel like the testing was biased. That, on top of some major play errors make me completely disregard this article as having absolutely no merit. I think 5 game samples are woefully inadequate as a sample size, because anyone who's tested 10 Pre/10 Post will tell you the first 4-6 can be awfully deceiving.

the sample size of 5 games was for the most part to keep the article at a manageable size... if I had done 20 games for each match up, each individual match up would have to have had its own individual article... and that is something I am not particularly inclined to do.

This article is not meant to be taken as canon, it is meant to lead people into ideas for them to do their own testing against Team America, if they like one of the decks, then they should test it against Team America themselves, probably doing more than 20 games both pre and post board. Then decide for themselves if the deck is still worth the time to play against a meta where Team America is present.

Originally Posted by Apex

As for the article, good attempt, just tighten up some of your playtesting matches for the next couple of article, and it should be good.

Thank you Apex for the bode of confidence, it is much appreciated... I wil try to tighten them up (if I can figure out what exactly that means)....

[ArcanePie]

Dalkon, I explained this before. This deck is a meta deck and should only be piloted by people expecting a field full of thresh. I'm dissapointed with the content of the article, especially the matchups (which seemed rushed and inaccurate)

However, your style of writing and your ability to write articles about topics you feel passionate about are prime. The article was well written even if I do not agree with the content.

[DalkonCledwin]

Originally Posted by ArcanePie

However, your style of writing and your ability to write articles about topics you feel passionate about are prime. The article was well written even if I do not agree with the content.

thank you Arcane, I appreciate that comment, even though you and I have disagreements about Team America itself

[arcane7828]

The writing style is alright. So you get points there =)

As for the content, I really don't know better since I am still learning about legacy =P so perspectives both yours and the posters in this thread are useful

[Cecilia]

I find this kinda funny that this article reminds me of how the FDA goes through like 4 phases of Clinical testing for drugs that are just waiting to be authorized to be sold through the worldwide medical market.

Anyway, I find the article to be an good read for people just getting into the format. But for veteran legacy players the article seems pretty iffy.