In my opinion, Legacy is the best format for several reasons: it’s got a diverse playing field, it’s competitive, it’s fresh, and it’s fun.
I will use baseball analogies to help explain this deck. I apologize in advance for those who do not like/follow baseball.
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1. The Franchise: What is “Fish”? The term “Fish” has come to mean the following:
- Fish as a tribal theme: a deck consisting of aquatic/sea-dwelling creatures
- Fish as an anti-meta deck; in other words, a deck that exploits other decks’ weaknesses. A Fish decklist is built to be one thing: annoying for the opponent.
The “perfect” Fish deck will be built around strong blue cards (such as brainstorm, force of will, daze) in addition to a creature base that is intended to exploit the opposition.
*Merfolk Fish satisfies both definitions
Merfolk Fish vs Legacy
- Merfolk Fish, when compared to the competition in the format, parallels the Florida Marlins and Tampa Bay Rays (ironically, both of those teams are “Fish”). Both teams stay economically cheap and desire teamwork while facing off against the high-priced New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox – teams boasting great individuals.
- Translating into MTG, Merfolk Fish wants to use a relatively inexpensive (economic cost of cards and casting cost) group of cards to win it all. With the exception of one of two cards, singles in the deck are highly affordable.
- How well does this economic strategy work? Like the Marlins and Rays, the results are hit or miss. Sometimes Merfolk can crush the opposition --- cruising into the Top 8 --- while other times it gets outclassed by opponents packing more expensive cards.
2. Fielding the Team: Building Merfolk Deck Philosophy:
- Playing Small Ball (preferring to hit singles instead of home runs): Use low casting-cost creatures that capitalize on teamwork rather than individuality. The creatures used in Merfolk Fish should have a large amount of synergy. While certain decks rely on “kill cards,” Merfolk use a “strength in numbers” tactic. The card choices make this evident.
- Solid Defense: Use cards that shut down the opponent’s threats. The easiest way to do so would be in the form of counterspells. Next would be shaking up board position. An occasional card draw helps do the aforementioned.
- Work the ‘Count: In the midst of foiling the opponent’s plans, you should be playing aggressively. This does not give you the justification to carelessly attack. We do not want to “swing” at everything; have some degree of discipline.
- Scout the Opposition: Just like sports teams who watch film, the success of Fish stems from a breakdown and tweaking of the deck to matchup favorably for a specific meta. Most decks simply tweak singleton card slots and adjust the SB. Fish is capable of much more customization.
3. The Team: Card Choices
- Although the archetype of “Fish” has been around for a long time, Merfolk Fish has really taken off since Lorwyn and Shadowmoor Blocks. There are various Merfolk cards that get the job done.
Everyday Players:
* denotes a "preference" choice; this option faces debatable competition over inclusion
R denotes a "retired' choice; this option may still be run, but is heavily marginalized
1. Cursecatcher: The leadoff hitter. He’s one of the best U drops in recent memory. He is a merfolk of the pearl trident + force spike in one. Where older Fish decks relied upon spiketail hatchling, cursecatcher does the job for less mana (not to mention he’s a merfolk). Cursecatcher turn 1 also gives you a consistent opportunity to thwart enemy plans. Wheras other decks have FoW + Daze, Cursecatcher is yet another somewhat free counter.
2. Silvergill Adept: The #2 hitter -- a solid turn 2 play. While Adept is a bit fragile with his 2/1 frame, he provides card drawing upon casting -- never a bad combination.
3. Lord of Atlantis: The captain of the team. A 2/2 lord for UU + grants Islandwalk to the team. LoA has been a part of Fish decks for a while but now he’s got a solid group of buddies around him. LoA is an example of the pure synergy the deck wishes to maintain.
It should be understood that LoA + Tidal Warrior can net you an unblockable army (ending the game before the opponent can get established). LoA is also powerful because blue is the most popular color in Legacy; you can directly exploit this.
4. Merrow Reejerey: Another lord for the Merfolk. While Reejy doesn’t grant Islandwalk, his ability ensures disruption – be it defensive or offensive.
5. Force of Will: Unanimous all-star. It is capable of countering spells “for free” and is mandatory for any Fish deck (Merfolk or other).
6. Daze: Another all-star. A few will argue its inclusion, but in over 90% of decks you’ll find, Daze is selected as the second counterspell. Daze + Cursecatcher in Merfolk only increases the potential of Daze (greater opportunities to counter important opponent spells)
7. Mutavault: A 2/2 colorless Merfolk when needed. Also taps to produce generic mana. Vault is capable of doing so much, especially when there are 8 lords in the deck. Because it’s a “man-land,” Vault plays nice with Standstill (should it be included in you list).
8. Aether Vial: Allows you to skip around opposing counter-magic, free up your mana, drop more people at one time, and “Vial In” people tactically. Vial is one of the strongest and most important cards in the deck. Establishing Vial turn 1 can slowly help you "cheat" in creatures for free + virtually un-countered.
*Wake Thrasher: This is the “Slugger” of Merfolk’s lineup. From the moment he shows up, your opponents will need to shift their focus to him. Wake Thrasher is an absolute stud when he’s capable of swinging.
As stated earlier, Merfolk Fish doesn’t rely on “kill cards” to win but Wake simply makes games end THAT much earlier.
*Merfolk Sovereign: Yet another lord for the deck to run. While not as efficient as LoA or abusive as Reej, Sovereign can make somebody unblockable. The combination of having lords #9-12 and potential auto-hit creatures is something to consider. Sovereign has essentially replaced Tidal Warrior
*Coralhelm Commander: The interesting prospect out of ROE. Coralhelm can be a small beater, evasive brute, or a tremendous lord --> level up lets you decide. The upside of Coralhelm is your ability to choose what he is. If the game drags out, having him as a topdeck can break open games.
R. Tidal Warrior: Tidal Warrior at worst is a cheap Merfolk. His ability to combo with LoA lets you quickly swing with everyone for the win. Tidal Warrior is considered to be retired.
R. Rishadan Port: Although it can still be used, Rishadan Port has seen better days.
Lands: Depending on the specific variant you want to run, the breakdown of cards are as shown below
Mono-Blue
10-12x Island
3-4x Mutavault
3-4x Wasteland
Blue + Color Splash
3-5x Island
0-1x Splash basic
3-4x Blue-Splash dual
3-4x Mutavault
3-4x Wasteland
3-4x Fetchland
4. Customization
Creatures
*Spellstutter Sprite: Sprite is probably the best blue creature who isn't a Merfolk. Sprite is essentially a daze+ with legs -- and her impact should not be taken lightly. Spellstutter can help you gain tremendous board position early, as you gain a body on the table + commonly counter opposing spells with her entry. Sprite alone subtly alters the deck's composition and can further change the deck's dynamic by adding Clique x1-2 and/or Riptide Laboratory x1-2.
*Vendilion Clique: Provides a great degree of surprise + disruption. While it doesn’t reap the benefits given from LoA or Reejy, Clique is commonly seen as a 2x choice due to its impact. It can be a lightning bolt, a counterspell, and a thoughtseize in one. It also compliments Sprite.
*Kira, Great Glass-Spinner: Kira is commonly a SB card, though it may be utilized MD in certain metas. Kira's strength is giving your team enhanced defense. A spot-removal spell, one of the weakness of Merfolk to play against, will be neutered considerably. Nevertheless, Kira is not an auto-win and is arguably not synergetic with Merfolks themselves. Defense is not the same as a lord-effect (ie; from LoA), though both at the same time would be undeniably nice to have.
*Tarmogoyf: The High-Priced Free Agent. He’s in basically every deck and for a good reason: he kicks ass. Many lists that run Goyf remove Wake Thrasher -- although it is possible to run both. Unlike Dreadnought, Goyf doesn’t hinder the synergy or build of Merfolk Fish. At worst, Goyf takes up 4x slots in the deck and gives you an attacker for G+1.
*Phyrexian Dreadnought: Dreadnought’s inclusion converts the deck to a Merfolk Fish + DreadStill (“DreadFolk”) list. Dread’s inclusion requires you to take some combination of stifle/trickbind (4x or more) to do the “StifleNought” trick.
While changing the flavor and style of Merfolk Fish, an unanswered “StifleNought” pretty much wins you the game. Dread takes away from the deck’s teamwork/synergy in favor of individualism; something players may like. Dreadnought is not meant for everyone but can be done.
SB. Trygon Predator: A quality choice for U/G lists. Having a flying “I-naturalize-when-I-hit-you” creature needs no further explanation.
SB. Meddling Mage: Not a Merfolk but a quality U/W card choice. If utilized correctly, MM shuts down certain spells period.
SB. Ethersworn Canonist: Commonly compared to Mage, Canonist is a better pure-combo stopper; however, it cannot stop decks that need a particular card to win. Against storm, she's better than Mage. Against Belcher or Lands.dec, she is weaker.
*Jace, the Mind Sculptor: He's beyond a utility player; he might be the entire infield by himself. Jace is a very powerful card to run in Merfolks and is a home-run type play. However, players should not be obsessed over squeezing him in and forcing the deck to play him. He's a nice utility as a 1-2x....and perfectly fine if he's not included. Jace's inclusion goes against small-ball synergistic tactics and shifts the deck a bit.
*Standstill: Works well with Vial and Mutavault. Although it isn’t perfect, Standstill can be commonly read as: “1+U…if your opponent wants to do anything productive, draw 3.” Standstill’s upside and synergy with other cards in the deck make it a common inclusion.
*Stifle: More disruption. Commonly used against enemy fetchlands in addition to creatures/permanents with quality abilities.
Trickbind: Stifle 2.0; commonly used for additional Dreadnought support
Brainstorm: Despite it being the second-best sinlge U spell ever, it is skipped over in many lists because it simply isn't needed. Merfolk want to be aggressive -- Bstorm isn't required to achieve that, as crazy as that sounds.
Spell Snare: If for any reason Daze isn’t your cup of tea, Spell Snare is chosen a common alternative. While “narrow” in playability (countering only 2cc spells), it’s a hard counter. A chunk of legacy’s spells happen to be 2cc.
Spell Pierce: Newer than 'Snare, Pierce is commonly used as SB material to combat decks that do not rely on creatures. This can be devastating to the opponent, as your initial countermagic is solid. More aggressively costed counters = a simple way to watch opponents sweat.
Counterbalance: For those looking to be more towards the “control” end of the spectrum, CB can establish a soft-lock with Sensei’s Divining Top.
Echoing Truth: Commonly a SB choice against decks like Ichorid, E.Truth is occasionally seen as being a MD choice. Placing this in the MD is heavily dependent upon your knowledge of the meta you play in.
SB. Submerge: A meta-based inclusion. This bounce spell can work nicely against Terravore, Tarmogoyf, Elves, Knight of the Reliquary, etc --- best used as a surprise tactic.
SB. Propaganda: Anti-aggro. Particarly useful against Ichorid (especially useful since Ichorid has about 2 mana throughout the entire game).
*Back to Basics: Could also be used as a MD choice. Much of Legacy runs non-basics, letting you hurt the opposition with ease. This is particularly potent against decks that run many dual-lands as well as Loam/Lands decks.
Umezawa's Jitte: A home-run-in-a-box. If the opponent can’t answer/destroy Jitte, board control and momentum heavily shifts in your favor. While Jitte requires some degree of mana to come online, its effects are arguably worth it. Commonly a 2x choice SB or MD
Sensei's Divining Top: Lowers Merfolk’s aggressiveness in favor of building the soft-lock with Counterbalance. SDT can also help fix upcoming draws.
SB. Pithing Needle: Shuts down certain cards. This is dependent upon the meta and if the opponent is utilizing a specific card’s activated abilities.
Swords to Plowshares: If using white, this card is an auto-include. It removes road blocks from the game in exchange for some life.
Path to Exile: Conflux’s STP. PTE effectively gives players another set of solo-W removal. It removes road blocks from the game in exchange for basic lands
Disenchant / Naturalize / Krosan Grip: Anti-artifact or enchant. K-grip is commonly chosen because it has split-second, letting you snipe problematic cards without fear.
Celestial Purge: Spot removal against Red and Black (white spell)
**Decks in the format continue to morph and change compositions. It's increasingly difficult to keep track of every deck you may face and what to do. I am keeping the original writings of this section as is; it would be problematic to just cut this. New players may still find this useful. More recent posts would be a better explanation on how to explicitly handle particular decks**
- I will try and handle this as best as I can; the issue is what you want to use in your SB/MD. The following is a basic analysis on what to expect and how to beat what archetype.
Landstill (in general)
Depending on the color variant and the exact list, Landstill is an interesting matchup. UWx packs counterspells and removal --- key elements that hurt our gameplan. Nevertheless, you should try to set a faster pace (since they will want to establish a large finishing spell/effect). Aether vial will shine, since you can slip people into play.
Regardless of the color, both you and the opponent will have solid chances to win game one. Hold back on countering the bigger spells (sweepers and kill cards).
SB:
+ non-basic hate (back to basics shines) or LD (armageddon)
+ jitte (depending on the version you’re facing, jitte’s potential to end the game shines)
Loam (in general)
Loam can be really good or really bad. The good thing about this matchup is the establishment they need to make. You can count on a solid 2-3 turns to match whatever they put out. Cards like the Tabernacle at Pendric Vale can be worked around. Their big creatures can be countered or stopped by Reejy + friends.
SB should nullify their lands and grave. After SB, things should be a lot easier.
SB:
+ non-basic hate (back to basics)
+ anti grave (tormod’s crypt/relic of progenitus)
Ichorid
Ichorid is goofy because nothing happens, then everything happens. The best thing to do is to ensure you have cursecatcher out turn 1 (sacrifice to remove their bridge from below’s) + counters available. Ichorid can run away with the game if you let them, so ensure board position.
Post-SB, you should be making them pay to attack via propaganda as well as lose their graveyard via tormod’s crypt/relic of progenitus
SB:
+ anti grave (tormod’s crypt/relic of progenitus)
+ mass-bounce (echoing truth)
+ prison-effects (propaganda shines)
Team America
Just like Fish, Team America looks to triumph through the exploitation and manipulation of the meta. This matchup really depends on their tweaks and their SB. Team America heavily relies upon goyf and tombstalker --- backed by disruption (discard effects and LD).
Gameplay and SB should focus on stopping their resources. They barely run basic lands, if any – so take advantage of that. Tombstalker is difficult to deal with if he comes out early. Lord of Atlantis will make you unblockable and Reejy + friends can stall, if needed.
SB:
+ non-basic hate (back to basics)
+ spot removal (white splash can shine at this)
Threshold (in general)
This follows much of the Team America gameplan – since Team America is like 75% Thresh cards. Nimble mongoose can grow to be out of hand and goyf is a pain. Should they run Tombstalker or Mystic Enforcer, try and counter or tap them down via Reej.
The white-splash Merfolk will have spot removal for their big men – something that will greatly affect your matchup.
SB: Same as Team America
+ non-basic hate (back to basics)
+ spot removal (white splash can shine at this)
Goblins
Goblins is dependent on who goes first. Merfolk have plenty of answers to a turn 1 lackey – even more if you’re on the play. The only real downside is their star, Goblin Piledriver, who is pro-blue. Luckily, you have counters and they do not. Worst case, you are forced to chump with Mutavault if needed. Goblins also runs out of gas quickly, so as long as lackey and ringleader are kept out of the action, you’ll simply out-tempo them.
SB:
+ Stealing (Mind Harness is quality) OR prison-effects (propaganda)
+ Spot removal (blue-elemental blast and celestial purge)
Storm/ANT
If you expect Storm/ANT, the best you can do is counter their key build-up spells. Should they play Ad-Naseum itself, be ready with something to counter it. SB should focus on stopping storm effects/combo.
SB:
+ anti-storm (chalice of the void, arcane laboratory)
+ meddling mage/ethersworn canonist (white splash)
Staxxx
Staxxx is all about controlling the game. If they are on the play, there isn’t much you can do other than counter whatever they drop. Luckily, their loop of wasteland-crucible has little effect on our lists, since we run a large amount of basic lands. Trinisphere and Smokestack itself should be countered.
SB should fous on anti-artifacts – since that’s the core of either the white or blue variants. Should Staxxx get countered/somehow lose their artifact weaponry, they cannot do anything.
7. Weakness
Merfolk are primarily blue-based, low casting cost, weenie creatures who swarm to win. Any mass removal, anti-blue, anti-weenie spells will turn the tables against you. The best defense is a nice counter-package and the ability to move-on, should men be lost (card drawing). Cards like Choke and Boil, should they randomly be included in the opponent’s SB, will be devastating.
Decks that power out fatties are problematic, but not impossible to deal with. Splash colors are arguably better equipped to answer a hulking 6/6 or 10/10 early on, but remember mono-blue can run bounce/counters.
Another weakness of Merfolks is when spot removal en mass comes out to deal with our creature. Opposing REB's, STP's, PTE's against anything we drop can seriously lower the win %. Luckily so much removal coming against is rare + countermagic can protect the team. Just remember not to overextend if facing removal.dec
**From the original post of this thread, Merfolks has blossomed into one of the elite decks in Legacy. Although the plan is relatively straightforward, there are some niche scenarios that may initially be problematic. But like any archetype, practice makes perfect. Merfolks is one of the most synergistic archetypes out there. Special thanks to those who play Merfolks and continue to make it an elite-caliber deck. Happy swimming!
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Cryptic Command is nice in standard --> very hard to a) cast and b) wait for in legacy. The triple UUU is a pain to achieve + at turn 4, you're going to want to win/nearly kill them.
Thrasher is not really a 4x fatty ---> solid as a 2-3x guy.
Bounce is not mandatory for MD --> especially when using Tidal Warrior (the guy you think is 'pointless'). If you want bounce to get rid of threats, you should have countered whatever it was that came out. Obviously this is not doable against everything (we are not MUC) but there are ways around things. Reejy also stops crap that is in your way.
I'm glad you're excited about the deck; would love to see your results. I will probably post what build I'd wanna run in a few days.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Planning on running Merfolk at the Grand Prix next month. Merfolk archetype as a whole seems to be pretty much hammered out, sans SB choices and a few MD slots.
Pretty standard list, I like the Relic MD. Hates on plenty of decks and cantrips later.
Many people run 19 lands (12 islands 7 nonbasic), and they do well with it, although some complain that too many mulligans occur with 12 Islands, so they run 13 and sometimes even 14 Islands. I will run 13 for the GP, since I want a more consistent list for such a large and long tourney. That Island will be run in one of the two 'open slots,' usually reserved for creatures such as Kira, or a different Merfolk. I used the last slot as a third Wake Thrasher for now, but I could run a singleton Kira, too.
Sideboard will be looking something like this, probably:
Planning on running Merfolk at the Grand Prix next month. Merfolk archetype as a whole seems to be pretty much hammered out, sans SB choices and a few MD slots.
What are you expecting to see at GP? I can recommend a few generally solid SB cards, even in "blind" metagames. And why so heavily focused on Kira?
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Warden I love your baseball analogies on the primer
Kira helps to protect your army against spot removal... the problem is she is not a merfolk and you're still vulernable to mass removal that she does not protect you from.
Merfolk is just so good right now Vial + Standstill is just really frustrating to play against especially when you're dropping quality creatures at instant speed. Wake Thrasher is ridiculous... it is not uncommon to untap with him and do 7/8 damage in one turn.
I couldn't find the old fish thread where it had all the info and deck information about it and showed why people choice a over b exc.
Could someone post the link for it?
I couldn't find the old fish thread where it had all the info and deck information about it and showed why people choice a over b exc.
Could someone post the link for it?
I planned on making that primer as well but turned it down due to my workload. I believe somebody is looking to start it back up. It has really fallen out of flavor because it simply has trouble keeping up with tempo, despite having some amazing cards. There's also been a huge divergence from the Blue-White-Black in favor of going Blue-Artifact or Blue-White.
Merfolk has gained popularity because it can do what other "fish" decks had trouble with -- keep up with the incredible tempo of the format. 8 lords help your small guys out incredibly + using some of the same great cards nearly all fish decks use (standstill, vial, force of will, daze, mutavault) create annoyances in your favor and setback the opponent.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I tried the Cutthroat over the Selkie, which was the original configuration, but I didn't like how Sygg couldn't draw me more then one card, where are each selkie usually gets me 3+ each time it connects. Looking at Chron's list, I noticed that there were no Reef Shamans or Islandwalk enablers at all. Is this common practice now, or did I miss the memo? I thought we needed to run something to give islands in order to compete with decks not running blue, or are we relying more on the Reejerey's tapping ability instead?
@ Chron: What are you subbing in the cards in your sideboard over?
Any ideas on how to improve this list, and what to run in the board?
I would cut a Mutavault for an Island. 20 Lands is fine, but not having a blue source mean a mulligan, always. 12 can get you there, but 13 is better, I think.
I hate the merfolk that change land-types. I think that it is a wasted slot, but if you want to run them, 2 is probably a maximum. If you really want to deny mana, you probably want Rishadan Port instead of Mutavault, especially if you don't run Standstill.
Four Cursecatchers. Four. You know how Daze is really good in this format? This guy is that an a Merfolk. Vial it in in response to spells.
Selkie is also sub-optimum, I think. Your deck is overloaded with three drops, most only play two or three Thrashers in addition to the Reejerys. The card is very situational, and will often be a 1/1 do-nothing. He's only good with other Lords, and you can win the game with Wake Thrasher. If you want to draw cards with Merfolk, run 2 Sygg, River Cutthroat.
No Standstills? We need these in the MD. The card is insane with Vial, and especially if you are running the full playset of Mutavaults.
As for the SB, it obv. all depends on what you want to hate on:
BEB/Hydroblast for Burn, Goblins.
Propaganda for Goblins/Aggro
Pithing Needle for Affinity, Belcher, deck w/ Explosives, Deed.
Back to Basics against Thresh and 3-4 color Midrange decks.
Echoing Truth against dumb things that resolve: Humility, Dreadnaught, etc. And Storm/Dredge tokens.
Kira against Burn and lots of Spot Removal.
Divert is good against Burn and Discard.
I tried the Cutthroat over the Selkie, which was the original configuration, but I didn't like how Sygg couldn't draw me more then one card, where are each selkie usually gets me 3+ each time it connects. Looking at Chron's list, I noticed that there were no Reef Shamans or Islandwalk enablers at all. Is this common practice now, or did I miss the memo? I thought we needed to run something to give islands in order to compete with decks not running blue, or are we relying more on the Reejerey's tapping ability instead?
@ Chron: What are you subbing in the cards in your sideboard over?
You hardly need to draw cards with your merfolk. I would recommend Standstill over another three-drop.
Concering your other questions, generally in this list, there are about seven "open" slots. Here is the framework of the deck:
Note: this deck is not a focused "mana-denial" list, those lists would contain Tidal Warriors and Rishadan Ports, but I don't think those lists are as good.
Anyways, those 53 cards are really, really hard to change unless you are going for some other strategy. That leaves us with our seven slots to do with as we wish. Ususally, at least two of these will be creatures, since you want close to twenty of them. Here are the best options, probably:
1 Island and/or Mutavault
4th Daze
2-3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sygg or Kira
2-3 Wake Thrashers
2 Bounce spells, namely Echoing Truthor Wipe Away
2 Tidal Warriors or Whirlpool Riders
2 Umezawa's Jitte
There are probably some other fair choices.
Personally, I am selecting, +1 Island, +2 Relic of Progenitus, +3 Wakethrasher, and +2 Wipe Away/Echoing Truth Right now, for a 61 card list. The SB is still up in the air.
@ChainsawRomeo
As for what cards to side out, it obv. depends on the matchup. However, as a generality, you are siding out Relics, Reejeries, Thrashers, Stifle, and Standstills.
For example, if you are playing against a combo deck, side out some three drops. If you survive/disrupt the combo, you won't need to kill them as quickly. You are the control deck here, you don't need to be taping to drop Wake Thrasher. Depending on the type of Combo deck, you can side out Relic as well.
You will usually be able to side out a narrow card, or excess lords against anything. Relic comes out aganst anything not dealing with the graveyard, Stifle can come out in lots of matchups, and Standstill can be less good against other standstill decks, but there are arguments that yours are better.
This helps a lot, thanks. One question though: what does this deck do with Standstill if you don't have a t1 Vial or Mutavault? I need to ask as i'm pretty new to the format.
This helps a lot, thanks. One question though: what does this deck do with Standstill if you don't have a t1 Vial or Mutavault? I need to ask as i'm pretty new to the format.
While these cards are best with Standstill, all you really need is a good board position. For example, if you get out ahead with some island-walking beats, Standstill is a good play. Plus, if you draw a Mutavault, you can play it straight through the Standstill. Hopefully, the odds will let you not have to worry about this often, although it is by no mean a dead card in those situations.
For similar reasons, you board out Standstill against harsh aggro; you will hardly ever have a favorable board position.
so ive been play testing Merfolk for a week or so now. I really like the fact that that there is a good amount of control. I have been looking into the Dreadnaughts but havent seen anyone playing them in the couple tournaments i have played. Has anyone been playing them or has it been dropped to keep more consistancy with controling your Opponent.
i see were your coming from with all the removal for artifacts and the board option. I see a lot of aggro and or jank being at larger venues. think it may be a smart idea to place it in SB.
You could safely MD two Dreadnaughts, but you'd have to have 4 Stifles and a good excuse to do so. Generally, the so-called "Dreadfolk" list is better in more aggro-ish metas, since Dreadnaught tends to own "random" lists, and burn. A 2-2 split on Dreadnaughts between the side and MD is fine, probably. You can even use Dreadnaughts in the side against burn and Sligh-type decks if you want.
If you're playing in a more developed meta, however, you'll want to play the tried-and-true Merfolk list.
Currently testing against some decks and playing around with these last slots, mostly the Echoing Truth slots. I am considering Wake Thrasher #3, Relic #3, Mutavault #4, Daze #4, Jitte, Kira, or other bounce spells.
List I am currently playing around with: DECK
Currently testing against some decks and playing around with these last slots, mostly the Echoing Truth slots. I am considering Wake Thrasher #3, Relic #3, Mutavault #4, Daze #4, Jitte, Kira, or other bounce spells.
Anyone been testing any of these cards?
Chronmaster, you have an interesting list. This is what I've been testing so far to decent success. I have to discuss things as well
I've been running U/W so far because I think StP makes such an incredible difference in tempo and as an "answer spell" for so many situations. I haven't been a fan of stifle in the meta's I've played in (and against decks I test against) -- so Stp > Stifle, IMO. This may not be true for everyone, but I like to have FRG removal available on tap. However, there's many little things bugging me -- such as Tidal and Jitte.
Tidal warrior has been hit-or-miss. Against decks that pack islands (roughly anything good except certain Loam decks or Goblins), he's not needed. I already have islandwalk. However, when an island is NOT on the opponent's end, he is GG. Nevertheless, I am drifting away from playing his because if he has to hold his own, he's quite frail. Nothing in the 1cc spot has caught my eye...Cursecatcher is just on another level of goodness, it's hard to compare others to him.
Umezawa's Jitte has also been "iffy" at best. I generally want to play critters before the equipment and the turns spent on dropping it + equipping it = I could have had an army out already. Only once have I really been stalling with an opponent to have it be a gamebreaking play. It lures out countermagic but aside from that, I doesn't do much. I'm thinking I would rather have Cold-Eyed Selkie (who costs less mana overall) OR Oblivion Ring or something in that slot.
Daze 3x or 4x is a personal preference. You have Cursecatcher to back you up. Wake Thrasher on the other hand...well...He's such a force, I'm thinking about running 4x. You notice a difference with 3 in the deck -- I'm thinking about maxing him out because he's so kickass when he's attacking.
Questions:
Anyone have Kira MD? Chronmaster, I'm also curious about her impact as a 1x or 2x MD. And how is Standstill @ 4x working out?
EDIT: The U/W crushed Dreadstill...and I got destroyed by UG/w Thresh (game one) but ate them with Back to Basics (game 2 and 3). Thresh with white is giving me some problems but I think tuning the deck to Kira/Cold Eyed/Oblivion would help me out. Maybe add bounce? Who knows.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I've been running U/W so far because I think StP makes such an incredible difference in tempo and as an "answer spell" for so many situations. I haven't been a fan of stifle in the meta's I've played in (and against decks I test against) -- so Stp > Stifle, IMO.
I'm not going to argue about StP being a good card, it's one of the best; however, I think that playing a splash color is not the best idea with Merfolk.
Part of this deck's strength is the fact that it runs more basics than a near-complete majority of the decks out there. This very fact can swing some Game 1's to your advantage. The very fact that you run so many basics shuts down or weakens a lot of powerful cards that end up in people's maindecks: Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Wasteland, Price of Progress, among others. There are decks that place their strategy in the fact that Legacy is filled with non-basics, we ignore that strategy.
That being said, StP is a great card, but I think that splashing white for it (and only it, in your case) is a bad idea. If there were better white Merfolk, I might be convinced otherwise, but I think putting yourself in a position to be hampered by the effects I listed above is not a good trade off for a set of StP.
Tidal warrior has been hit-or-miss. Against decks that pack islands (roughly anything good except certain Loam decks or Goblins), he's not needed. I already have islandwalk. However, when an island is NOT on the opponent's end, he is GG. Nevertheless, I am drifting away from playing his because if he has to hold his own, he's quite frail. Nothing in the 1cc spot has caught my eye...Cursecatcher is just on another level of goodness, it's hard to compare others to him.
I agree with you here, I don't think I would have any other creature besides the 5 accepted Merfolk and Kira in my MD. Tidal Warrior is fragile, and narrow in its uses. As for needing another 1-drop, this is another reason I love Stifle. It goes with the Mana-denial strategy of the deck, and if you don't have a Cursecatcher or Vial, it's a nice card to have in your hand.
Umezawa's Jitte has also been "iffy" at best. I generally want to play critters before the equipment and the turns spent on dropping it + equipping it = I could have had an army out already. Only once have I really been stalling with an opponent to have it be a gamebreaking play. It lures out countermagic but aside from that, I doesn't do much. I'm thinking I would rather have Cold-Eyed Selkie (who costs less mana overall) OR Oblivion Ring or something in that slot.
I am leaning away from Jitte in the MD, as well. As silly as it may seem, the card DOES cost four mana to play, and that's if everything goes smoothly. We just don't have that kind of mana all the time. The card is bonkers, no doubt, but it's a little slow, and goes against the disruptive nature of the deck. I will test it some more, and tell you how it goes.
There are so many ways to stop Jitte counters, especially in the decks I want it most against, the red ones.
Daze 3x or 4x is a personal preference. You have Cursecatcher to back you up. Wake Thrasher on the other hand...well...He's such a force, I'm thinking about running 4x. You notice a difference with 3 in the deck -- I'm thinking about maxing him out because he's so kickass when he's attacking.
I really like the bounce effects (for the same reason you like StP), and the Relic in my deck, but if I cut either of those it would be for a Wake Thrasher and a Daze or Mutavault.
Questions:
Anyone have Kira MD? Chronmaster, I'm also curious about her impact as a 1x or 2x MD. And how is Standstill @ 4x working out?
She felt somewhat clunky, and it some matches, she was all but useless. I think she is better to be in the SB right now, since I am impressed with the Echoing Truths MD, but I am not sure.
I really like the bounce effects (for the same reason you like StP), and the Relic in my deck, but if I cut either of those it would be for a Wake Thrasher and a Daze or Mutavault....[about Kira]She felt somewhat clunky, and it some matches, she was all but useless. I think she is better to be in the SB right now, since I am impressed with the Echoing Truths MD, but I am not sure.
I'm not sold on relic as a MD option. As crazy as it sounds, I do not think it's a relevant card MD. There are enough decks out there that need more generalized answers than MD grave hate.
I will definitely try mono-blue again for the reasons you mentioned. I first tried merfolk with Back to Basics MD (much better MD niche-hate than relic, IMO) but didn't think so highly of bounce at the time. All things considered, you may be right with the fact that bounce spells ~ StP. I love StP because it's removed from the game -- but it does hurt me when I factor in the vast non-basic hating. I also splashed white for disenchant and other types of hate but you're probably right in saying that I can get nearly the same thing via bounce.
Choosing the bounce spell is tough...there are a few solid options out there that can really get the job done:
-Echoing Truth, Wipe Away, Wash Out (the ability to knock out a whole side as the upside of the card...yes, i know you could hurt yourself in the process), even Snap are all considerable options
We both agree on a relative core to the deck. I'm debating the importance of Stifle in the deck. Part of me would rather have more/better bounce instead of being quite passive. Wipe Away is growing on me as a quality option. The fact that it hits ANY permanent (lands too) is nothing to scoff at.
T1 > Cursecatcher / Vial
T2 > Lord of Atlantis / Silvergill Adept (+1 draw) / Standstill
T3 > Wipe Away (split second + you can hit lands or major permanents) / Wake Thrasher
You could also have a solid "bounce package" MD if you want
3 Wipe Away / 2 Echoing Truth
Plus there is always the possibility for Threads of Disloyalty MD.
3 Wipe Away / 2 Threads
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3 Wipe Away + 4 Wasteland + 3 Back to Basics (as MD options? definitely SB material) could provide ridiculous hate against non-basics/heavy multicolored decks. The ability to nuke, keep tapped, and bounce their resources/spells is just nuts.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I'm not sold on relic as a MD option. As crazy as it sounds, I do not think it's a relevant card MD. There are enough decks out there that need more generalized answers than MD grave hate.
Relic is good against so many things. Aggro-Loam, Dredge, Combo decks with Cabal Ritual, Survival, It's the Fear, Stax (Crucible), GoyfSligh (lavamancer), and others. On top of that, it eats/prevents three of the best creatures in Legacy: Tarmogoyf, Nimble Mongoose, and Tombstalker. If the first of those two creatures are in play, and Relic is on board, they can't make good blocks, which allows you to be much more aggressive.
Oh, and when it doesn't do anything, it cantrips.
Choosing the bounce spell is tough...there are a few solid options out there that can really get the job done:
-Echoing Truth, Wipe Away, Wash Out (the ability to knock out a whole side as the upside of the card...yes, i know you could hurt yourself in the process), even Snap are all considerable options
I have liked Echoing Truth a lot in testing. Two mana is a nice price, and Wipe Away has a chance of being dead as it costs two blue. Both spells have their advantages, but I think the two mana cost titls the scales in ET's favor. Another card you might want to try is Rushing River.
We both agree on a relative core to the deck. I'm debating the importance of Stifle in the deck. Part of me would rather have more/better bounce instead of being quite passive. Wipe Away is growing on me as a quality option. The fact that it hits ANY permanent (lands too) is nothing to scoff at.
Stifles act as 5-7th Wastelands, many of the times. There are a TON of fetch-lands in the format, and sometimes with a Stifle and a Wasteland, you can end the game before it starts, or get a huge tempo swing before they can find a second land. Stifle will hardly ever be a dead card in this format, so I would recommend playing them.
You forgot the most relevant/common matchup, thresh. Though I gues syou named it with Tarmogoyf and Mongoose. Simply put, Thresh will need to attack with 0/1s and 1/1s against you if you play Relic.
Right. Relic itself will not keep Thresh's graveyard empty, but it can help. However, it's best application in the matchup is Goyf removal. You want to be very agressive with this deck against Threshold; attacking with 2/2s or 3/3s into a Goyf with Relic up is the situation that you want be in. If they block, they lose their Goyf (make sure that they can't refill the graveyard after, but without fetchlands, it is hard for them to get more than one with StP, or two if they have the red splash), and if they don't they are taking damage.
~ Updated Sept 4th 2010
In my opinion, Legacy is the best format for several reasons: it’s got a diverse playing field, it’s competitive, it’s fresh, and it’s fun.
I will use baseball analogies to help explain this deck. I apologize in advance for those who do not like/follow baseball.
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1. The Franchise: What is “Fish”?
The term “Fish” has come to mean the following:
- Fish as a tribal theme: a deck consisting of aquatic/sea-dwelling creatures
- Fish as an anti-meta deck; in other words, a deck that exploits other decks’ weaknesses. A Fish decklist is built to be one thing: annoying for the opponent.
The “perfect” Fish deck will be built around strong blue cards (such as brainstorm, force of will, daze) in addition to a creature base that is intended to exploit the opposition.
*Merfolk Fish satisfies both definitions
Merfolk Fish vs Legacy
- Merfolk Fish, when compared to the competition in the format, parallels the Florida Marlins and Tampa Bay Rays (ironically, both of those teams are “Fish”). Both teams stay economically cheap and desire teamwork while facing off against the high-priced New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox – teams boasting great individuals.
- Translating into MTG, Merfolk Fish wants to use a relatively inexpensive (economic cost of cards and casting cost) group of cards to win it all. With the exception of one of two cards, singles in the deck are highly affordable.
- How well does this economic strategy work? Like the Marlins and Rays, the results are hit or miss. Sometimes Merfolk can crush the opposition --- cruising into the Top 8 --- while other times it gets outclassed by opponents packing more expensive cards.
2. Fielding the Team: Building Merfolk
Deck Philosophy:
- Playing Small Ball (preferring to hit singles instead of home runs): Use low casting-cost creatures that capitalize on teamwork rather than individuality. The creatures used in Merfolk Fish should have a large amount of synergy. While certain decks rely on “kill cards,” Merfolk use a “strength in numbers” tactic. The card choices make this evident.
- Solid Defense: Use cards that shut down the opponent’s threats. The easiest way to do so would be in the form of counterspells. Next would be shaking up board position. An occasional card draw helps do the aforementioned.
- Work the ‘Count: In the midst of foiling the opponent’s plans, you should be playing aggressively. This does not give you the justification to carelessly attack. We do not want to “swing” at everything; have some degree of discipline.
- Scout the Opposition: Just like sports teams who watch film, the success of Fish stems from a breakdown and tweaking of the deck to matchup favorably for a specific meta. Most decks simply tweak singleton card slots and adjust the SB. Fish is capable of much more customization.
3. The Team: Card Choices
- Although the archetype of “Fish” has been around for a long time, Merfolk Fish has really taken off since Lorwyn and Shadowmoor Blocks. There are various Merfolk cards that get the job done.
Everyday Players:
* denotes a "preference" choice; this option faces debatable competition over inclusion
R denotes a "retired' choice; this option may still be run, but is heavily marginalized
1. Cursecatcher: The leadoff hitter. He’s one of the best U drops in recent memory. He is a merfolk of the pearl trident + force spike in one. Where older Fish decks relied upon spiketail hatchling, cursecatcher does the job for less mana (not to mention he’s a merfolk). Cursecatcher turn 1 also gives you a consistent opportunity to thwart enemy plans. Wheras other decks have FoW + Daze, Cursecatcher is yet another somewhat free counter.
2. Silvergill Adept: The #2 hitter -- a solid turn 2 play. While Adept is a bit fragile with his 2/1 frame, he provides card drawing upon casting -- never a bad combination.
3. Lord of Atlantis: The captain of the team. A 2/2 lord for UU + grants Islandwalk to the team. LoA has been a part of Fish decks for a while but now he’s got a solid group of buddies around him. LoA is an example of the pure synergy the deck wishes to maintain.
It should be understood that LoA + Tidal Warrior can net you an unblockable army (ending the game before the opponent can get established). LoA is also powerful because blue is the most popular color in Legacy; you can directly exploit this.
4. Merrow Reejerey: Another lord for the Merfolk. While Reejy doesn’t grant Islandwalk, his ability ensures disruption – be it defensive or offensive.
5. Force of Will: Unanimous all-star. It is capable of countering spells “for free” and is mandatory for any Fish deck (Merfolk or other).
6. Daze: Another all-star. A few will argue its inclusion, but in over 90% of decks you’ll find, Daze is selected as the second counterspell. Daze + Cursecatcher in Merfolk only increases the potential of Daze (greater opportunities to counter important opponent spells)
7. Mutavault: A 2/2 colorless Merfolk when needed. Also taps to produce generic mana. Vault is capable of doing so much, especially when there are 8 lords in the deck. Because it’s a “man-land,” Vault plays nice with Standstill (should it be included in you list).
8. Aether Vial: Allows you to skip around opposing counter-magic, free up your mana, drop more people at one time, and “Vial In” people tactically. Vial is one of the strongest and most important cards in the deck. Establishing Vial turn 1 can slowly help you "cheat" in creatures for free + virtually un-countered.
*Wake Thrasher: This is the “Slugger” of Merfolk’s lineup. From the moment he shows up, your opponents will need to shift their focus to him. Wake Thrasher is an absolute stud when he’s capable of swinging.
As stated earlier, Merfolk Fish doesn’t rely on “kill cards” to win but Wake simply makes games end THAT much earlier.
*Merfolk Sovereign: Yet another lord for the deck to run. While not as efficient as LoA or abusive as Reej, Sovereign can make somebody unblockable. The combination of having lords #9-12 and potential auto-hit creatures is something to consider. Sovereign has essentially replaced Tidal Warrior
*Coralhelm Commander: The interesting prospect out of ROE. Coralhelm can be a small beater, evasive brute, or a tremendous lord --> level up lets you decide. The upside of Coralhelm is your ability to choose what he is. If the game drags out, having him as a topdeck can break open games.
R. Tidal Warrior: Tidal Warrior at worst is a cheap Merfolk. His ability to combo with LoA lets you quickly swing with everyone for the win. Tidal Warrior is considered to be retired.
R. Rishadan Port: Although it can still be used, Rishadan Port has seen better days.
Lands: Depending on the specific variant you want to run, the breakdown of cards are as shown below
Mono-Blue
10-12x Island
3-4x Mutavault
3-4x Wasteland
Blue + Color Splash
3-5x Island
0-1x Splash basic
3-4x Blue-Splash dual
3-4x Mutavault
3-4x Wasteland
3-4x Fetchland
4. Customization
*Spellstutter Sprite: Sprite is probably the best blue creature who isn't a Merfolk. Sprite is essentially a daze+ with legs -- and her impact should not be taken lightly. Spellstutter can help you gain tremendous board position early, as you gain a body on the table + commonly counter opposing spells with her entry. Sprite alone subtly alters the deck's composition and can further change the deck's dynamic by adding Clique x1-2 and/or Riptide Laboratory x1-2.
*Vendilion Clique: Provides a great degree of surprise + disruption. While it doesn’t reap the benefits given from LoA or Reejy, Clique is commonly seen as a 2x choice due to its impact. It can be a lightning bolt, a counterspell, and a thoughtseize in one. It also compliments Sprite.
*Kira, Great Glass-Spinner: Kira is commonly a SB card, though it may be utilized MD in certain metas. Kira's strength is giving your team enhanced defense. A spot-removal spell, one of the weakness of Merfolk to play against, will be neutered considerably. Nevertheless, Kira is not an auto-win and is arguably not synergetic with Merfolks themselves. Defense is not the same as a lord-effect (ie; from LoA), though both at the same time would be undeniably nice to have.
*Tarmogoyf: The High-Priced Free Agent. He’s in basically every deck and for a good reason: he kicks ass. Many lists that run Goyf remove Wake Thrasher -- although it is possible to run both. Unlike Dreadnought, Goyf doesn’t hinder the synergy or build of Merfolk Fish. At worst, Goyf takes up 4x slots in the deck and gives you an attacker for G+1.
*Phyrexian Dreadnought: Dreadnought’s inclusion converts the deck to a Merfolk Fish + DreadStill (“DreadFolk”) list. Dread’s inclusion requires you to take some combination of stifle/trickbind (4x or more) to do the “StifleNought” trick.
While changing the flavor and style of Merfolk Fish, an unanswered “StifleNought” pretty much wins you the game. Dread takes away from the deck’s teamwork/synergy in favor of individualism; something players may like. Dreadnought is not meant for everyone but can be done.
SB. Trygon Predator: A quality choice for U/G lists. Having a flying “I-naturalize-when-I-hit-you” creature needs no further explanation.
SB. Meddling Mage: Not a Merfolk but a quality U/W card choice. If utilized correctly, MM shuts down certain spells period.
SB. Ethersworn Canonist: Commonly compared to Mage, Canonist is a better pure-combo stopper; however, it cannot stop decks that need a particular card to win. Against storm, she's better than Mage. Against Belcher or Lands.dec, she is weaker.
R. Sygg, River Cutthroat
R. Rootwater Thief
R. Galina’s Knight
R. Sygg, River Guide
*Jace, the Mind Sculptor: He's beyond a utility player; he might be the entire infield by himself. Jace is a very powerful card to run in Merfolks and is a home-run type play. However, players should not be obsessed over squeezing him in and forcing the deck to play him. He's a nice utility as a 1-2x....and perfectly fine if he's not included. Jace's inclusion goes against small-ball synergistic tactics and shifts the deck a bit.
*Standstill: Works well with Vial and Mutavault. Although it isn’t perfect, Standstill can be commonly read as: “1+U…if your opponent wants to do anything productive, draw 3.” Standstill’s upside and synergy with other cards in the deck make it a common inclusion.
*Stifle: More disruption. Commonly used against enemy fetchlands in addition to creatures/permanents with quality abilities.
Trickbind: Stifle 2.0; commonly used for additional Dreadnought support
Brainstorm: Despite it being the second-best sinlge U spell ever, it is skipped over in many lists because it simply isn't needed. Merfolk want to be aggressive -- Bstorm isn't required to achieve that, as crazy as that sounds.
Spell Snare: If for any reason Daze isn’t your cup of tea, Spell Snare is chosen a common alternative. While “narrow” in playability (countering only 2cc spells), it’s a hard counter. A chunk of legacy’s spells happen to be 2cc.
Spell Pierce: Newer than 'Snare, Pierce is commonly used as SB material to combat decks that do not rely on creatures. This can be devastating to the opponent, as your initial countermagic is solid. More aggressively costed counters = a simple way to watch opponents sweat.
Counterbalance: For those looking to be more towards the “control” end of the spectrum, CB can establish a soft-lock with Sensei’s Divining Top.
Echoing Truth: Commonly a SB choice against decks like Ichorid, E.Truth is occasionally seen as being a MD choice. Placing this in the MD is heavily dependent upon your knowledge of the meta you play in.
Wipe Away: Bounces fatties without question
SB. Submerge: A meta-based inclusion. This bounce spell can work nicely against Terravore, Tarmogoyf, Elves, Knight of the Reliquary, etc --- best used as a surprise tactic.
SB. Propaganda: Anti-aggro. Particarly useful against Ichorid (especially useful since Ichorid has about 2 mana throughout the entire game).
*Back to Basics: Could also be used as a MD choice. Much of Legacy runs non-basics, letting you hurt the opposition with ease. This is particularly potent against decks that run many dual-lands as well as Loam/Lands decks.
Vedalken Shackles / Sower of Temptation: Creature-stealing. Shackles is essentially a blue card
Threads of Disloyalty / Mind Harness: A more limited form of creature stealing
Blue Elemental Blast / Hydroblast: Direct anti-red spells
Hurkyl's Recall: Anti-artifacts
Umezawa's Jitte: A home-run-in-a-box. If the opponent can’t answer/destroy Jitte, board control and momentum heavily shifts in your favor. While Jitte requires some degree of mana to come online, its effects are arguably worth it. Commonly a 2x choice SB or MD
Sensei's Divining Top: Lowers Merfolk’s aggressiveness in favor of building the soft-lock with Counterbalance. SDT can also help fix upcoming draws.
SB. Pithing Needle: Shuts down certain cards. This is dependent upon the meta and if the opponent is utilizing a specific card’s activated abilities.
SB. Relic of Progenitus/Tormod’s Crypt: Anti-grave
Swords to Plowshares: If using white, this card is an auto-include. It removes road blocks from the game in exchange for some life.
Path to Exile: Conflux’s STP. PTE effectively gives players another set of solo-W removal. It removes road blocks from the game in exchange for basic lands
Disenchant / Naturalize / Krosan Grip: Anti-artifact or enchant. K-grip is commonly chosen because it has split-second, letting you snipe problematic cards without fear.
Celestial Purge: Spot removal against Red and Black (white spell)
5. Lists + Variants [Updated Sept 4th 2010]
Mono-U Merfolks, piloted by Matthew Bevenour -- Jupiter (Vestal, NY)
Link: http://jupitergames.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/5_15_10_top8_Decklists.txt
4 Cursecatcher
4 SIlvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Rejerrey
2 Wake Thrasher
2 Coralhelm Commander
Spells
2 Echoing Truth
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Standstill
4 Aether Vial
12 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
2 Waterfront Bouncer
3 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Sower of Temptation
3 Spell Pierce
2 Divert
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
U/G Merfolks, piloted by my friend Evan Gottschalk at Jupiter (Vestal, NY)
Link: http://jupitergames.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/5_15_10_top8_Decklists.txt
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrrow Rejerey
4 Cursecatcher
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Silvergill Adept
1 Merfolk Sovereign
Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Standstill
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
4 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Spell Pierce
3 Trinket Mage
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Krosan Grip
2 Thrads of Disloyalty
2 Tormod’s Crypt
Mono-U Faerie-Folks, Dylan Sauerwald, F2F Legacy event
Link: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35233
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Aether Vial
4 Standstill
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
1 Riptide Laboratory
11 Island
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Back to Basics
3 Spell Pierce
2 Mindbreak Trap
U/b Merfolks, Tomoharu Saito, Grand Prix Columbus 2010 [Winner]
Link: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpcol10/welcome#1
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Aether Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Standstill
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
4 Engineered Plague
2 Nature's Ruin
1 Perish
3 Submerge
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte
6. Matchup Philosophies
**Decks in the format continue to morph and change compositions. It's increasingly difficult to keep track of every deck you may face and what to do. I am keeping the original writings of this section as is; it would be problematic to just cut this. New players may still find this useful. More recent posts would be a better explanation on how to explicitly handle particular decks**
- I will try and handle this as best as I can; the issue is what you want to use in your SB/MD. The following is a basic analysis on what to expect and how to beat what archetype.
Landstill (in general)
Depending on the color variant and the exact list, Landstill is an interesting matchup. UWx packs counterspells and removal --- key elements that hurt our gameplan. Nevertheless, you should try to set a faster pace (since they will want to establish a large finishing spell/effect). Aether vial will shine, since you can slip people into play.
Regardless of the color, both you and the opponent will have solid chances to win game one. Hold back on countering the bigger spells (sweepers and kill cards).
SB:
+ non-basic hate (back to basics shines) or LD (armageddon)
+ jitte (depending on the version you’re facing, jitte’s potential to end the game shines)
Loam (in general)
Loam can be really good or really bad. The good thing about this matchup is the establishment they need to make. You can count on a solid 2-3 turns to match whatever they put out. Cards like the Tabernacle at Pendric Vale can be worked around. Their big creatures can be countered or stopped by Reejy + friends.
SB should nullify their lands and grave. After SB, things should be a lot easier.
SB:
+ non-basic hate (back to basics)
+ anti grave (tormod’s crypt/relic of progenitus)
Ichorid
Ichorid is goofy because nothing happens, then everything happens. The best thing to do is to ensure you have cursecatcher out turn 1 (sacrifice to remove their bridge from below’s) + counters available. Ichorid can run away with the game if you let them, so ensure board position.
Post-SB, you should be making them pay to attack via propaganda as well as lose their graveyard via tormod’s crypt/relic of progenitus
SB:
+ anti grave (tormod’s crypt/relic of progenitus)
+ mass-bounce (echoing truth)
+ prison-effects (propaganda shines)
Team America
Just like Fish, Team America looks to triumph through the exploitation and manipulation of the meta. This matchup really depends on their tweaks and their SB. Team America heavily relies upon goyf and tombstalker --- backed by disruption (discard effects and LD).
Gameplay and SB should focus on stopping their resources. They barely run basic lands, if any – so take advantage of that. Tombstalker is difficult to deal with if he comes out early. Lord of Atlantis will make you unblockable and Reejy + friends can stall, if needed.
SB:
+ non-basic hate (back to basics)
+ spot removal (white splash can shine at this)
Threshold (in general)
This follows much of the Team America gameplan – since Team America is like 75% Thresh cards. Nimble mongoose can grow to be out of hand and goyf is a pain. Should they run Tombstalker or Mystic Enforcer, try and counter or tap them down via Reej.
The white-splash Merfolk will have spot removal for their big men – something that will greatly affect your matchup.
SB: Same as Team America
+ non-basic hate (back to basics)
+ spot removal (white splash can shine at this)
Goblins
Goblins is dependent on who goes first. Merfolk have plenty of answers to a turn 1 lackey – even more if you’re on the play. The only real downside is their star, Goblin Piledriver, who is pro-blue. Luckily, you have counters and they do not. Worst case, you are forced to chump with Mutavault if needed. Goblins also runs out of gas quickly, so as long as lackey and ringleader are kept out of the action, you’ll simply out-tempo them.
SB:
+ Stealing (Mind Harness is quality) OR prison-effects (propaganda)
+ Spot removal (blue-elemental blast and celestial purge)
Storm/ANT
If you expect Storm/ANT, the best you can do is counter their key build-up spells. Should they play Ad-Naseum itself, be ready with something to counter it. SB should focus on stopping storm effects/combo.
SB:
+ anti-storm (chalice of the void, arcane laboratory)
+ meddling mage/ethersworn canonist (white splash)
Staxxx
Staxxx is all about controlling the game. If they are on the play, there isn’t much you can do other than counter whatever they drop. Luckily, their loop of wasteland-crucible has little effect on our lists, since we run a large amount of basic lands. Trinisphere and Smokestack itself should be countered.
SB should fous on anti-artifacts – since that’s the core of either the white or blue variants. Should Staxxx get countered/somehow lose their artifact weaponry, they cannot do anything.
SB:
+ anti-artifacts (Hurkyl's Recall, Serenity, Disenchant, Naturalize)
7. Weakness
Merfolk are primarily blue-based, low casting cost, weenie creatures who swarm to win. Any mass removal, anti-blue, anti-weenie spells will turn the tables against you. The best defense is a nice counter-package and the ability to move-on, should men be lost (card drawing). Cards like Choke and Boil, should they randomly be included in the opponent’s SB, will be devastating.
Decks that power out fatties are problematic, but not impossible to deal with. Splash colors are arguably better equipped to answer a hulking 6/6 or 10/10 early on, but remember mono-blue can run bounce/counters.
Another weakness of Merfolks is when spot removal en mass comes out to deal with our creature. Opposing REB's, STP's, PTE's against anything we drop can seriously lower the win %. Luckily so much removal coming against is rare + countermagic can protect the team. Just remember not to overextend if facing removal.dec
**From the original post of this thread, Merfolks has blossomed into one of the elite decks in Legacy. Although the plan is relatively straightforward, there are some niche scenarios that may initially be problematic. But like any archetype, practice makes perfect. Merfolks is one of the most synergistic archetypes out there. Special thanks to those who play Merfolks and continue to make it an elite-caliber deck. Happy swimming!
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Should you decide to make the deck more controllish, the first thing I would suggest is to use counterbalance + sensei's divining top.
Cryptic Command is nice in standard --> very hard to a) cast and b) wait for in legacy. The triple UUU is a pain to achieve + at turn 4, you're going to want to win/nearly kill them.
Thrasher is not really a 4x fatty ---> solid as a 2-3x guy.
Bounce is not mandatory for MD --> especially when using Tidal Warrior (the guy you think is 'pointless'). If you want bounce to get rid of threats, you should have countered whatever it was that came out. Obviously this is not doable against everything (we are not MUC) but there are ways around things. Reejy also stops crap that is in your way.
I'm glad you're excited about the deck; would love to see your results. I will probably post what build I'd wanna run in a few days.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
The list:
13 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Mutavault
Creatures (19)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Slivergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejery
3 Wake Thrasher
3 Stifle
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
Artifacts (7)
4 Aether Vial
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Standstill
Pretty standard list, I like the Relic MD. Hates on plenty of decks and cantrips later.
Many people run 19 lands (12 islands 7 nonbasic), and they do well with it, although some complain that too many mulligans occur with 12 Islands, so they run 13 and sometimes even 14 Islands. I will run 13 for the GP, since I want a more consistent list for such a large and long tourney. That Island will be run in one of the two 'open slots,' usually reserved for creatures such as Kira, or a different Merfolk. I used the last slot as a third Wake Thrasher for now, but I could run a singleton Kira, too.
Sideboard will be looking something like this, probably:
2 Pithing Needle
3 Divert
3 Propaganda
2 Back to Basics
3 Echoing Truth
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Any suggestions for the SB would be appreciated.
Mad props to Spiderboy at HighLight for the sig!
Check out my drafting vids at MTGOvideos!
What are you expecting to see at GP? I can recommend a few generally solid SB cards, even in "blind" metagames. And why so heavily focused on Kira?
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Kira helps to protect your army against spot removal... the problem is she is not a merfolk and you're still vulernable to mass removal that she does not protect you from.
Merfolk is just so good right now Vial + Standstill is just really frustrating to play against especially when you're dropping quality creatures at instant speed. Wake Thrasher is ridiculous... it is not uncommon to untap with him and do 7/8 damage in one turn.
Could someone post the link for it?
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
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Check out the mono Blue Clan
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If you're talking about Merfolk Fish, this is the thread to kick things off. If you're referring to "Fish" in general, I could post the link but what you'll find is a totally different deck. The decklist you'll find is Hann Fish -- with no real relation to Merfolk Fish other than being a "Fish" deck (see primer). It utilized Serra Avenger, Dark Confidant, Brainstorm, Jotun Grunt, Force of Will, Daze, Vindicate, etc.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=101284&highlight=hanni
I planned on making that primer as well but turned it down due to my workload. I believe somebody is looking to start it back up. It has really fallen out of flavor because it simply has trouble keeping up with tempo, despite having some amazing cards. There's also been a huge divergence from the Blue-White-Black in favor of going Blue-Artifact or Blue-White.
Merfolk has gained popularity because it can do what other "fish" decks had trouble with -- keep up with the incredible tempo of the format. 8 lords help your small guys out incredibly + using some of the same great cards nearly all fish decks use (standstill, vial, force of will, daze, mutavault) create annoyances in your favor and setback the opponent.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=94700
Hot damn! My apologies! Thought I remembered seeing the decklist somewhere! Hope the primer helps at least!
Edit: Epic fail for me lol
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8158
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Reef Shaman
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Merrow Reejerey
3x Cursecatcher
3x Wake Thrasher
3x Cold-Eyed Selkie
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x AEther Vial
3x Stifle
12x Island
4x Wasteland
4x Mutavault
Any ideas on how to improve this list, and what to run in the board?
@ Chron: What are you subbing in the cards in your sideboard over?
I would cut a Mutavault for an Island. 20 Lands is fine, but not having a blue source mean a mulligan, always. 12 can get you there, but 13 is better, I think.
I hate the merfolk that change land-types. I think that it is a wasted slot, but if you want to run them, 2 is probably a maximum. If you really want to deny mana, you probably want Rishadan Port instead of Mutavault, especially if you don't run Standstill.
Four Cursecatchers. Four. You know how Daze is really good in this format? This guy is that an a Merfolk. Vial it in in response to spells.
Selkie is also sub-optimum, I think. Your deck is overloaded with three drops, most only play two or three Thrashers in addition to the Reejerys. The card is very situational, and will often be a 1/1 do-nothing. He's only good with other Lords, and you can win the game with Wake Thrasher. If you want to draw cards with Merfolk, run 2 Sygg, River Cutthroat.
No Standstills? We need these in the MD. The card is insane with Vial, and especially if you are running the full playset of Mutavaults.
As for the SB, it obv. all depends on what you want to hate on:
BEB/Hydroblast for Burn, Goblins.
Propaganda for Goblins/Aggro
Pithing Needle for Affinity, Belcher, deck w/ Explosives, Deed.
Back to Basics against Thresh and 3-4 color Midrange decks.
Echoing Truth against dumb things that resolve: Humility, Dreadnaught, etc. And Storm/Dredge tokens.
Kira against Burn and lots of Spot Removal.
Divert is good against Burn and Discard.
You hardly need to draw cards with your merfolk. I would recommend Standstill over another three-drop.
Concering your other questions, generally in this list, there are about seven "open" slots. Here is the framework of the deck:
4 Cursecatcher
4 Slivergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejery
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
4 Aether Vial
3 Daze
3 Stifle
12 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Mutavault
Note: this deck is not a focused "mana-denial" list, those lists would contain Tidal Warriors and Rishadan Ports, but I don't think those lists are as good.
Anyways, those 53 cards are really, really hard to change unless you are going for some other strategy. That leaves us with our seven slots to do with as we wish. Ususally, at least two of these will be creatures, since you want close to twenty of them. Here are the best options, probably:
1 Island and/or Mutavault
4th Daze
2-3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sygg or Kira
2-3 Wake Thrashers
2 Bounce spells, namely Echoing Truthor Wipe Away
2 Tidal Warriors or Whirlpool Riders
2 Umezawa's Jitte
There are probably some other fair choices.
Personally, I am selecting, +1 Island, +2 Relic of Progenitus, +3 Wakethrasher, and +2 Wipe Away/Echoing Truth Right now, for a 61 card list. The SB is still up in the air.
@ChainsawRomeo
As for what cards to side out, it obv. depends on the matchup. However, as a generality, you are siding out Relics, Reejeries, Thrashers, Stifle, and Standstills.
For example, if you are playing against a combo deck, side out some three drops. If you survive/disrupt the combo, you won't need to kill them as quickly. You are the control deck here, you don't need to be taping to drop Wake Thrasher. Depending on the type of Combo deck, you can side out Relic as well.
You will usually be able to side out a narrow card, or excess lords against anything. Relic comes out aganst anything not dealing with the graveyard, Stifle can come out in lots of matchups, and Standstill can be less good against other standstill decks, but there are arguments that yours are better.
Does this help?
Mad props to Spiderboy at HighLight for the sig!
Check out my drafting vids at MTGOvideos!
While these cards are best with Standstill, all you really need is a good board position. For example, if you get out ahead with some island-walking beats, Standstill is a good play. Plus, if you draw a Mutavault, you can play it straight through the Standstill. Hopefully, the odds will let you not have to worry about this often, although it is by no mean a dead card in those situations.
For similar reasons, you board out Standstill against harsh aggro; you will hardly ever have a favorable board position.
Mad props to Spiderboy at HighLight for the sig!
Check out my drafting vids at MTGOvideos!
Dreadnought, despite the 12/12 body, is quite fragile in Legacy. He gets owned by Krosan Grip, Engineered Explosives and Powder Keg set at 1, Chalice of the Void, Smother, Snuff Out, Swords to Plowshares, Ancient Grudge, Goblin Tinkerer, and other cards that blow up artifacts that are around a lot in the game.
On top of that, bounce spells wreck Dreadnought as well.
Just play straight up Merfolk. If you want to play Dreadnought+Stifle, go Dreadstill.
If you're playing in a more developed meta, however, you'll want to play the tried-and-true Merfolk list.
List I am currently playing around with:
13 Islands
4 Wasteland
3 Mutavault
Creatures (18)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Slivergilll Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejery
2 Wake Thrasher
4 Aether Vial
2 Relic of Progenitus
Enchantments (4)
4 Standstill
Instants (12)
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Stifle
2 Echoing Truth
Currently testing against some decks and playing around with these last slots, mostly the Echoing Truth slots. I am considering Wake Thrasher #3, Relic #3, Mutavault #4, Daze #4, Jitte, Kira, or other bounce spells.
Anyone been testing any of these cards?
Mad props to Spiderboy at HighLight for the sig!
Check out my drafting vids at MTGOvideos!
Chronmaster, you have an interesting list. This is what I've been testing so far to decent success. I have to discuss things as well
4x Merrow Reejerey
4x Cursecatcher
4x Silvergill Adept
3x Wake Thrasher
2x Tidal Warrior
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
3x Standstill
4x Aether Vial
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Wasteland
3x Mutavault
2x Tundra
5x Island
1x Plains
Tidal warrior has been hit-or-miss. Against decks that pack islands (roughly anything good except certain Loam decks or Goblins), he's not needed. I already have islandwalk. However, when an island is NOT on the opponent's end, he is GG. Nevertheless, I am drifting away from playing his because if he has to hold his own, he's quite frail. Nothing in the 1cc spot has caught my eye...Cursecatcher is just on another level of goodness, it's hard to compare others to him.
Umezawa's Jitte has also been "iffy" at best. I generally want to play critters before the equipment and the turns spent on dropping it + equipping it = I could have had an army out already. Only once have I really been stalling with an opponent to have it be a gamebreaking play. It lures out countermagic but aside from that, I doesn't do much. I'm thinking I would rather have Cold-Eyed Selkie (who costs less mana overall) OR Oblivion Ring or something in that slot.
Daze 3x or 4x is a personal preference. You have Cursecatcher to back you up. Wake Thrasher on the other hand...well...He's such a force, I'm thinking about running 4x. You notice a difference with 3 in the deck -- I'm thinking about maxing him out because he's so kickass when he's attacking.
Questions:
Anyone have Kira MD? Chronmaster, I'm also curious about her impact as a 1x or 2x MD. And how is Standstill @ 4x working out?
EDIT: The U/W crushed Dreadstill...and I got destroyed by UG/w Thresh (game one) but ate them with Back to Basics (game 2 and 3). Thresh with white is giving me some problems but I think tuning the deck to Kira/Cold Eyed/Oblivion would help me out. Maybe add bounce? Who knows.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I'm not going to argue about StP being a good card, it's one of the best; however, I think that playing a splash color is not the best idea with Merfolk.
Part of this deck's strength is the fact that it runs more basics than a near-complete majority of the decks out there. This very fact can swing some Game 1's to your advantage. The very fact that you run so many basics shuts down or weakens a lot of powerful cards that end up in people's maindecks: Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Wasteland, Price of Progress, among others. There are decks that place their strategy in the fact that Legacy is filled with non-basics, we ignore that strategy.
That being said, StP is a great card, but I think that splashing white for it (and only it, in your case) is a bad idea. If there were better white Merfolk, I might be convinced otherwise, but I think putting yourself in a position to be hampered by the effects I listed above is not a good trade off for a set of StP.
I agree with you here, I don't think I would have any other creature besides the 5 accepted Merfolk and Kira in my MD. Tidal Warrior is fragile, and narrow in its uses. As for needing another 1-drop, this is another reason I love Stifle. It goes with the Mana-denial strategy of the deck, and if you don't have a Cursecatcher or Vial, it's a nice card to have in your hand.
I am leaning away from Jitte in the MD, as well. As silly as it may seem, the card DOES cost four mana to play, and that's if everything goes smoothly. We just don't have that kind of mana all the time. The card is bonkers, no doubt, but it's a little slow, and goes against the disruptive nature of the deck. I will test it some more, and tell you how it goes.
There are so many ways to stop Jitte counters, especially in the decks I want it most against, the red ones.
I really like the bounce effects (for the same reason you like StP), and the Relic in my deck, but if I cut either of those it would be for a Wake Thrasher and a Daze or Mutavault.
She felt somewhat clunky, and it some matches, she was all but useless. I think she is better to be in the SB right now, since I am impressed with the Echoing Truths MD, but I am not sure.
Mad props to Spiderboy at HighLight for the sig!
Check out my drafting vids at MTGOvideos!
I'm not sold on relic as a MD option. As crazy as it sounds, I do not think it's a relevant card MD. There are enough decks out there that need more generalized answers than MD grave hate.
I will definitely try mono-blue again for the reasons you mentioned. I first tried merfolk with Back to Basics MD (much better MD niche-hate than relic, IMO) but didn't think so highly of bounce at the time. All things considered, you may be right with the fact that bounce spells ~ StP. I love StP because it's removed from the game -- but it does hurt me when I factor in the vast non-basic hating. I also splashed white for disenchant and other types of hate but you're probably right in saying that I can get nearly the same thing via bounce.
Choosing the bounce spell is tough...there are a few solid options out there that can really get the job done:
-Echoing Truth, Wipe Away, Wash Out (the ability to knock out a whole side as the upside of the card...yes, i know you could hurt yourself in the process), even Snap are all considerable options
We both agree on a relative core to the deck. I'm debating the importance of Stifle in the deck. Part of me would rather have more/better bounce instead of being quite passive. Wipe Away is growing on me as a quality option. The fact that it hits ANY permanent (lands too) is nothing to scoff at.
T1 > Cursecatcher / Vial
T2 > Lord of Atlantis / Silvergill Adept (+1 draw) / Standstill
T3 > Wipe Away (split second + you can hit lands or major permanents) / Wake Thrasher
You could also have a solid "bounce package" MD if you want
3 Wipe Away / 2 Echoing Truth
Plus there is always the possibility for Threads of Disloyalty MD.
3 Wipe Away / 2 Threads
-------
3 Wipe Away + 4 Wasteland + 3 Back to Basics (as MD options? definitely SB material) could provide ridiculous hate against non-basics/heavy multicolored decks. The ability to nuke, keep tapped, and bounce their resources/spells is just nuts.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Oh, and when it doesn't do anything, it cantrips.
I have liked Echoing Truth a lot in testing. Two mana is a nice price, and Wipe Away has a chance of being dead as it costs two blue. Both spells have their advantages, but I think the two mana cost titls the scales in ET's favor. Another card you might want to try is Rushing River.
Stifles act as 5-7th Wastelands, many of the times. There are a TON of fetch-lands in the format, and sometimes with a Stifle and a Wasteland, you can end the game before it starts, or get a huge tempo swing before they can find a second land. Stifle will hardly ever be a dead card in this format, so I would recommend playing them.
Mad props to Spiderboy at HighLight for the sig!
Check out my drafting vids at MTGOvideos!
Right. Relic itself will not keep Thresh's graveyard empty, but it can help. However, it's best application in the matchup is Goyf removal. You want to be very agressive with this deck against Threshold; attacking with 2/2s or 3/3s into a Goyf with Relic up is the situation that you want be in. If they block, they lose their Goyf (make sure that they can't refill the graveyard after, but without fetchlands, it is hard for them to get more than one with StP, or two if they have the red splash), and if they don't they are taking damage.
Mad props to Spiderboy at HighLight for the sig!
Check out my drafting vids at MTGOvideos!