The local Ice cream shop is a place for happiness and fun. Families gather together to head out for some desert. Couples make it a popular date spot. Children always want to go and see how much they can get and eat.
Though times are tough and this local shop is having problems. Ever since there have been problems with the economy there were fewer and fewer customers visiting the shop. The store owner took it upon himself to design and make new and fun flavors that would rival the famous brands that are found in the supermarket.
He spent about a month adding, subtracting and mixing to come up with unique flavors for his shop. This was his first time he went to these drastic measures to save his shop. His shop was his life and if it fails so does he. After creating 13 new flavors for his store he decided that he was done and let the ice cream speak for itself.
However this isn't your normal Ice cream parlor.. the ice cream here has a mind of it's own. And change isn't always a good thing. Some welcomed the change, others repulsed and some even so don't quite understand what changed with them. The first day after all 13 flavors were placed inside the freezer there was an "accident". The flavor now known as ButterMintz (A combinations of Butterscotch and peppermint ice cream) was found all over the kitchen floor and eventually down the floor drain.
No one important - ButterMintz Neutral Hazard has been found melted.
The owner didn't know how or why this happened, cleaned up the mess and continued with his remaining 12 flavors. The remaining ice cream knew that the changes that were made were the reason. And that those in the freezer were responsible for the "accident". They have gotten together to figure things out as they themselves don't want to find themselves licking the floor.
Floor Lickers: (11/12) No one important - ButterMintz Neutral Hazard- pre game death. IcePhoenix - Kiwi Strawberry - Vanilla Townie tossed out of the freezer Day 1. Dragoon26 - Reese’s Minty Explosion - Loaded Candy Cream (Ooze) Townie stabbed to death night 1. Ace - Death by White Chocolate - townie creamer (Doctor) thrown to his death Day 2. EvilZak - Double Cookie dough delight - vanilla townie found dead with a sweet powerdy substance Night 2 Mad Mat - Cookies, Cream and Bananas - Mafia Goon tossed overboard Day 3. Gubbins - Cherry Mocha - Vanilla Townie dead by strange powder Night 3. Oni Kuma - Vanilla Fudge Walnut Brownie - mafia roleblocker. Beaten and thrown overboard Day 4. Kpaca - Peanut Butter & Dulce de Leche -town Flavor identifier (cop) choked to death by white powder night 4. J-Effe IV - Gummy Rocky Road - vanilla townie Knocked out owner Day 5. ZeDorkSlipeur - Frosted Cake Batter - Vanilla townie died from Some One's wrath Day 5. Archmage Eternal - Peach Sorbet -vanilla townie died from Some One's Wrath Day 5.
Rules (Pilfered from Ecophagy, stolen from Loran, stolen from Some One, stolen from Stormblind, stolen from CropCircles, stolen from carrion pigeons, who stole them from loran16, who then stole them from SorryGuy, who retrieved them courteously from Xyre, who jacked them from Jobie, who stole them from Puzzle, but Puzzel stole them from Crippled_Fist, who stole them from Ljustus, who stole them from carrion pigeons, who copyrighted them from CropCircles, who first pirated them from Puzzle, who got them in a private message from Halo_Freak):
1. Bold your votes and unvotes please, this makes it easier for us. They should look like this: Vote Roja
2. If you are unvoting, I request that you write Unvote Roja
rather than just Unvote as this makes the vote counts easier and more accurate.
3. Any votes or unvotes not in bold will not be counted.
4. Do not communicate at night or day unless your role PM says otherwise.
5. Do not quote PM's or you will be modkilled. You can discuss the flavor and paraphrase it in your own words, but do not quote me.
6. Unvote before casting a new vote. Failure to unvote may result in the vote not being counted.
7. You may vote No lynch, and a majority of these votes will end the day without a death.
8. Please do not edit or delete your posts no matter how stupid a mistake you made. This will get you modkilled. This is your only warning. 9. Once you’re dead, you’re dead, so stop posting please. A single ‘bah’ post is permissible.
10. Even after you are dead, please refrain from discussing the game or your role with anyone, even other players who have also been eliminated. If you have any questions about this rule, please ask.
11. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 72-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Otherwise, you may be prodded or replaced.
12. If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you – if you do not submit a choice to me, tough! No choice will be made.
13. Lynches will require a simple majority of votes. Once a player has reached the necessary majority, his pleas are useless and any attempts to unvote will go unheeded.
14. If you are requesting a mod prod or vote count, please bold you request so that we can see it more clearly.
15. In order to keep this game moving, everyone is expected to post at least once every two to three days and if you don't, you may be replaced or modkilled. WITHOUT WARNING, whatever your side.
16. HAVE FUN. This is not optional.
17. Lastly and most importantly. Respect us and the rest of the players; I hope I do not have to modkill anyone.
************************************************** *****************************
I would highly recommend this tutorial if if you need to learn/remind yourself of the basics of play.
Sample Vanilla Townie PM:
Quote from Still the sample »
Boring flarvor fluff goes here.
However a threat has been revealed and you must do whatever you can to stop them.
You are Ice cream flavor, ironically a Vanilla townie, you must do what it takes to melt the scum. You win when all the Mafia have been destroyed
Once again if anyone has any questions please feel free to PM me. I have no problems answering questions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Also ZDS why try to prevent a random phase happening? Without one what do we have to discuss in day 1 apart from your random hatingness?
I think you just answered your own question.
I personally don't care much for the random stage either. So long as people talk, there are things to discuss. I would rather discuss serious stuff than jokes.
Name claim is stupid. Scum have no reason to fake claim, since there aren't any ice cream flavor names that indicate evilness, or role, or anything else scum want to lie about.
Not for name claim. At this point there is no gain that I can see, and while I can't see any harm in it at all either, I'd rather not do something that may or may not hurt us without further information.
@ ZDS - in every game I've been in, there has either been a type of soft-claim Day 1 or a mass claim when the game has almost ended. During the mass claim, full names are revealed (along with roles), and during the soft-claim, just a hint at your role name is revealed, such as first letter of name, gender, etc (for those who have no idea what's going on I'm spelling things out clearly). I haven't been in a game that name claimed day 1, as a result of it probably being a bad idea for many reasons from possibly revealing power rules to letting the scum know if they need to false claim or not to overall revealing more information the town has that the scum don't need to know.
Let's be an a-hole and stop the random stage before it even happens. Who is up for a mass name-claim ?
Your asking whos up for one. Are you up for one? You haven't stated.
I haven't been involved in one yet. I tend to disagree with them for the reason of giving scum clearer choices of who to target. But in this game I don't see how that could happen so could care less one way or the other.
Confirm vote. The argument Some One gave against mass claiming is way too broad and generic.
It's a complete and comprehensive answer compared to those given by basically all the others.
I can agree with someone who doesn't see a clear benefit in claiming. I can also understand how someone could have a "rule of thumb" about mass claims in general.
And that's basically me.
But when Some One says he doesn't want to because he's never done it before
This is contradictory for your first sentence where you agree with a "rule of thumb" but disagree because I have "never done it before." I have never done it before because of the "rule of thumb."
and because it might hint at power roles (how so ? Is the doc supposed to be a health-flavoured ice cream or something ?), no, I call bull ****.
Ever hear of masons? Obviously we can't say for sure if they exist, but they are likely power roles to be revealed by name-claiming (they would have two closely related names that make sense as a cohesive unit). Look at dictionary mafia, a name claim was guaranteed to reveal me and WoD as mason partners (which is why I opposed it there). Certainly, this isn't the only reason to oppose mass name-claiming, but nonetheless, it is still a factor.
This is the type of answer you give when you are afraid of claiming, not when you have actually pondered and concluded the cons outweighed the pros.
Pretty damn sure I've pondered the cons outweigh the pros because the town is put into a situation that can only hurt them and help the scum. Sure, it could do nothing for neither party, but it won't be beneficial to the town. Seriously, ask yourself, if it was beneficial to the town to day 1 name claim - how come it's not done as a common practice?
Pretty damn sure I've pondered the cons outweigh the pros because the town is put into a situation that can only hurt them and help the scum. Sure, it could do nothing for neither party, but it won't be beneficial to the town. Seriously, ask yourself, if it was beneficial to the town to day 1 name claim - how come it's not done as a common practice?
Name claim is not a great idea in general. Leave it for when we can use behaviour to tease out some facts.
Let's be an a-hole and stop the random stage before it even happens. Who is up for a mass name-claim ?
The last game I played, the first person who suggested a flavor-based claim ended up being scum. Besides, it's just gaming the mod, so it likely won't give us any information. And even if it does, that would give the scum enough information to generate a false claim later if they need to. Let's actually play the game instead of hunt by claim.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
That's more the kind of things you do with role claims, and sometimes (but only sometimes) name claims when you know there are "scummy" names (but here we don't know that, and that makes me curious).
That's more the kind of things you do with role claims, and sometimes (but only sometimes) name claims when you know there are "scummy" names (but here we don't know that, and that makes me curious).
Besides, it's just gaming the mod, so it likely won't give us any information. And even if it does, that would give the scum enough information to generate a false claim later if they need to. Let's actually play the game instead of hunt by claim.
How is hunting by claim not actually playing the game?
Well in other games a name claim could point you to who is scum. Now in this game how is that possible? I don't like chocolate so you must be scum! No, theres no way to determine that based on ice cream flavor. So while this claim hunting is playing the game, all it is accomplishing at this point is to stall it out. It looks like it will not happen at the moment so I suggest we put it to rest and move on.
I like how you went from a purely contingent reason to oppose an early mass name claim (you have never done it before and deduced it was *probably* because of the *possibility* of it being too revealing), to having a rule of thumb. How great.
I provided reasons for why it's a bad idea when you asked me for them. I'm not making up a rule of thumb by employing your words and extrapolating on the fact that day one mass name-claim is not practiced anywhere I know.
The mason argument proves my whole point, so, thank you. The reason why you did not want to claim in Dictionary was directly related to the specific aspects of that game, not some "oh noes it's new aahh my eyes they burn" crap. Whereas here, you didn't show any sign of taking the specifics of this game into account, at all.
No one here has taken any specifics of the game into account when mentioning their opposition to mass-claim.
As for why claiming is not a more common practice, that's most certainly because every game is different and must be treated as such. Many games have specific reasons why it is not a good idea to claim in them, and some other times it simply doesn't pop to anyone's mind. In this game however, there is no valid reason why claiming is bad.
*open palm, insert face*
Tell me one, just one (maybe two if one is that easy for you to find) game that day one name claimed to the town's benefit. I dare you, because seriously, I know of none. However, what I can say is that in many of the games I played in (Batman, Doomsday, Harry Potter, just to name 3), day 1 mass name claimed would have wrecked the town. Why do you feel it would be better to do it now with almost no behavioral analyses to formulate a claim order than to do it in the future when there is enough behavioral analysis to formulate a claim order? Furthermore, how do you know the specifics of this game enable there to be no valid reason for claiming to be bad? What makes you certain it's fine to name claim in this game without being detrimental to the town?
@ ZDS - why the double standard? How is my logic different or worse than anyone else's? If you are calling me scum, why aren't you calling everyone else scum, it's not like I'm the only one who doesn't like your idea? - I'm just the only one elaborating the most about why I feel it's a bad idea.
Like Some One. Vote : Some One. Who seems to imply we can actually find scum through such a claim, as otherwise he wouldn't care about the order, and wouldn't care about Ace's support of the claim. That in turn implies scummy inside knowledge of the flavour given to scums.
@ ZDS - why the double standard? How is my logic different or worse than anyone else's? If you are calling me scum, why aren't you calling everyone else scum, it's not like I'm the only one who doesn't like your idea? - I'm just the only one elaborating the most about why I feel it's a bad idea.
I'm wondering ZDS, you accuse SO of impling we can find scum this way and vote him. Why would you want a claim then? Also you do just point fingers at SO for going against it. I feel you chose one and latched on to them in order to get a wagon going on that person. I'm also starting to think that you knowing a name claim would prove nothing in this game and could jump on a player that voted against it, swaying the town early into thinking Some One is trying to hide from something. Vote ZDS
Not for name claim. At this point there is no gain that I can see, and while I can't see any harm in it at all either, I'd rather not do something that may or may not hurt us without further information.
Name claim is stupid. Scum have no reason to fake claim, since there aren't any ice cream flavor names that indicate evilness, or role, or anything else scum want to lie about.
@ ZDS - in every game I've been in, there has either been a type of soft-claim Day 1 or a mass claim when the game has almost ended. During the mass claim, full names are revealed (along with roles), and during the soft-claim, just a hint at your role name is revealed, such as first letter of name, gender, etc (for those who have no idea what's going on I'm spelling things out clearly). I haven't been in a game that name claimed day 1, as a result of it probably being a bad idea for many reasons from possibly revealing power rules to letting the scum know if they need to false claim or not to overall revealing more information the town has that the scum don't need to know.
Well in other games a name claim could point you to who is scum.
This is assuming the scum wouldn't be lying. With a mass name claim, the scum can simply sit back and wait for a few other townies to claim, see a possible trend, and then they have a fake claim. In other words, mass claim of any kind would gain the town nothing and give the scum a whole lot of info.
Now, whether or not that info would be useful, I don't know. But the whole situation is gaming the mod, so it's kinda moot.
Vote: ZDS
Everyone, go read Chess. This is starting out eerily similar.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Let's be an a-hole and stop the random stage before it even happens. Who is up for a mass name-claim ?
Why are you so anxious to kill the random stage? Isn't the random stage supposed to be a little fun at the start at a game that is normally rather intense and scrutinizing. I also thought it was a needed really. It establishes a pattern. This strikes me as very scummy. Jumping on a point and then you jumped right on Some One. Why? Your attack on him seems random in itself.
This is assuming the scum wouldn't be lying. With a mass name claim, the scum can simply sit back and wait for a few other townies to claim, see a possible trend, and then they have a fake claim. In other words, mass claim of any kind would gain the town nothing and give the scum a whole lot of info.
Now, whether or not that info would be useful, I don't know. But the whole situation is gaming the mod, so it's kinda moot.
This seems like the most relevent reason to not mass claim. Why should we make scum's job any easier?
The way he said "sure" to the claim, then turned around and argued against it, doesn't resemble an honest opinion in the least.
Yet I said it wouldn't help in the slightest. Mmmkay'.
Like Dragoon said, go check out Chess Newbie Mafia, where town thought they could game the mod. They were wrong, because I made it so they could not. This is 99% likely with this mod, and will be 99% likely with every mod in the future. A name claim couldn't do any truly catastrophic damage, but it binds us to a decision so early in the game. Name claims would hardly bother scum, as they are more than likely to willingly give their name, and give a fake claim. Ice-cream flavours are kind of hard to get any flavour out of (ha!).
, where town thought they could game the mod. They were wrong, because I made it so they could not. This is 99% likely with this mod, and will be 99% likely with every mod in the future. A name claim couldn't do any truly catastrophic damage, but it binds us to a decision so early in the game. Name claims would hardly bother scum, as they are more than likely to willingly give their name, and give a fake claim. Ice-cream flavours are kind of hard to get any flavour out of (ha!).
Thanks for telling me precisely what I was arguing a page ago.
I disagree that Ace turned around. His opinion evolved naturally through reading the other player's arguments, especially Dragoon's. He's not making any sudden turn.
How can Dragoon have helped change Ace's mind when he changed it before Dragoon's first post?
More to the point, his opinion didn't "evolve". Look at his most recent post: he's citing a past example, from a game he modded no less, that backs up his current anti-claim position. There is no reason for him not to have had this example in mind when you proposed the claim. This, among other things, tells me that he knew the claim was bad to begin with and was passively trying to blend in - then town opposes the claim, so whoops, he was actually against the claim but he just worded it poorly. That's not evolution, that's going with the flow.
Nameclaiming's good because we have no idea what the scums can be. Either they have a coherent theme and then we're happy, or they don't and then we don't care. I also don't see how power roles could be revealed this way.
And it's bad because if the scum do have a coherent theme, they are going to be able to slip through the cracks by false-claiming.
But, truly, the claim is only the tip of the iceberg. It's more of a lure than anything else. My real interest here is seeing how you guys react, and quite frankly, SO's reaction is scummy as hell.
You could have latched on to anyone in the same way you latched on to me.
It's quite obvious that they did, to anyone who is town.
Though times are tough and this local shop is having problems. Ever since there have been problems with the economy there were fewer and fewer customers visiting the shop. The store owner took it upon himself to design and make new and fun flavors that would rival the famous brands that are found in the supermarket.
He spent about a month adding, subtracting and mixing to come up with unique flavors for his shop. This was his first time he went to these drastic measures to save his shop. His shop was his life and if it fails so does he. After creating 13 new flavors for his store he decided that he was done and let the ice cream speak for itself
That is me taking the game specifics into account by realizing there is probably some type of theme whereby the scum are more likely than not going to have to false-claim, but are unaware of what exactly the townies would be. EZ clearly didn't do this in his post 24.
In any case, I fail to see your point. Once again you use a general and out of context argument to answer a specific and in-context question.
EZ didn't.
In this game, a townie's typical reaction to such a proposition should go along the lines of "what's the point ?", since it doesn't seem like our names give any clue about our roles or alignments.
First, I wasn't the only one who opposed it. Second, just because it "doesn't SEEM" doesn't mean "definitely." It's normal for me to ere on the side of caution.
But SO said the exact opposite, as if he wasn't aware that townie rolenames are not indicative of anything. He further proves it when he says "No one here has taken any specifics of the game into account when mentioning their opposition to mass-claim."
Why do you keep twisting things on me when it appears I am the only one who actually analyzed the flavor of the first post and realized the scum are probably going to have to false claim as a result of scum (in my experience ALWAYS) having to false claim?
Is this on purpose ? Ice Phoenix is the one whose opinion is clear cut. All answers are informative. Learn to read. Gosh.
Umm, you aren't aware. You said all three answers before mine were informative. However, mine just wasn't for you :rolleyes:.
Lastly, face+palm at the votes. You guys need to pay attention to the right things. Like Some One's blatant scumminess.
I do applaud your expertly crafted plan. You latch on to one player, fail to address the points how you bring about a double standard, force that player to name claim first by twisting every single word against them (parading noobs), and then you and your scumbuddies soon know the theme of the town and what to false claim. Vote ZDS - twisting words, double standard, and not answering questions.
In gaming the mod, when looking at his noob 27 (NES) - we can see a name claim would have outed masons aside from doing (iirc) nothing. As a result, I believe being cautious is the way to go.
I don't see how that makes it bad. Perhaps it makes its utility questionable, but it doesn't make it "bad".
We'll cover why it's bad later, but you just admitted that information gathered from a mass claim might not be useful. Why on earth would you be in favor of something that isn't useful for the town?
So, you are basically claiming scum ? Since, you know, my point kind of is that you, as scum, don't know what to claim to look townie (or, even more likely, don't know if you can safely claim your true name).
No, that's logic. There are two possible outcomes for a mass name-claim:
1) We discover there is a pattern to the names. That can greatly benefit the scum because if there does happen to be some sort of pattern with the roles, the scum could potentially find the power roles. And before you say that's bull, if there's a pattern to alignment, there can just as easily be a pattern to roles. On top of that, the scum are going to be able to fake claim names and flavor, giving the town a harder time to find them when someone gets down to L-2 or whatever. In short, the scum gain a lot of information and the town gets nothing. Now, I don't think this is the case, but if it were, mass name-claim would be anti-town.
2) There is no pattern and this entire thought process is a waste of time. More often than not, flavor is thrown in to make the game more interesting and enjoyable, not to serve as sub-game in determining a alignment and roles. If you try to game the mod, you will likely be way off base. This is the more likely scenario, so this whole discussion is moot.
If you truly believed that, and were town, then you would be strongly in favour of a claim, since forcing the scums to false claim that early is extremely beneficial to the town.
This makes absolutely no sense. How does forcing the scum to false claim benefit the town? How would we even know the scum is false-claiming? You seem to be making these statements from the perspective of knowing more than you're letting on.
@ ZDS - why the double standard? How is my logic different or worse than anyone else's? If you are calling me scum, why aren't you calling everyone else scum, it's not like I'm the only one who doesn't like your idea? - I'm just the only one elaborating the most about why I feel it's a bad idea.
That's more the kind of things you do with role claims, and sometimes (but only sometimes) name claims when you know there are "scummy" names (but here we don't know that, and that makes me curious).
There's also the off chance that it actually is possible to identify scums by their names.
For someone claiming to be more interested in the reaction than the claim itself, you certainly like to bring up the pros of name-claiming. You also seem to forget the fact that scum can lie. (gasp!)
The argument Some One gave against mass claiming is way too broad and generic. I can agree with someone who doesn't see a clear benefit in claiming. I can also understand how someone could have a "rule of thumb" about mass claims in general.
But when Some One says he doesn't want to because he's never done it before and because it might hint at power roles (how so ? Is the doc supposed to be a health-flavoured ice cream or something ?), no, I call bull ****. This is the type of answer you give when you are afraid of claiming, not when you have actually pondered and concluded the cons outweighed the pros.
These two statements don't jive. The possibility of hinting at power roles is a completely legitimate concern. And like I said earlier, if you think you can determine alignment based on names (which you obviously believe) then determining roles based on names should not be completely far-fetched.
Just curious, but you made this statement after less than three pages of content and only 5 posts by Ace. What specifically did he say to make you believe so early that he is town?
I like how you went from a purely contingent reason to oppose an early mass name claim (you have never done it before and deduced it was *probably* because of the *possibility* of it being too revealing), to having a rule of thumb. How great.
So his contingent reason lead to a rule of thumb. You talk about how each game is different and must be treated so. Going into this game, we don't know how much information can be revealed in our names, so it makes perfect sense to have a rule of thumb based on his reason.
As for why claiming is not a more common practice, that's most certainly because every game is different and must be treated as such. Many games have specific reasons why it is not a good idea to claim in them, and some other times it simply doesn't pop to anyone's mind. In this game however, there is no valid reason why claiming is bad.
Yes there is. And again, you act like you know more than you're letting on.
(and don't tell me I'm overthinking things ; I'm probably wrong as far as the small details are concerned, but SO recently "confirmed" he saw names as a way to tell alignment. Then why did he give such a neutral answer ?)
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
If power-roles have a theme, we still need to identify it.
...really...REALLY?
I'm going to end this with ZDS right here and now. I'm not going to go back and forth with him any more because all it seems to be accomplishing is a major thread de-rail superimposed onto the random voting phase. This discussion is getting nowhere (with his selective quotes, inability to answer questions in regards to the double standard, really listen to what I'm saying, and etc.) and I lack the energy to make this Some One vs. Kpaca 2.0 (see noob 25).
Basically, I feel the same thing that is happening here happened in noob 25 and it was a horrendous error on my part to let it massively de-rail the thread, and I'm not going to let it happen again.
If people seriously believe I am scum and want my dispute with ZDS to continue, make it known and I will happily throw out more walls of text to further support my position. However, that was the incorrect thing for me to have done in noob 25 and it is the incorrect thing for me to do here because it discourages scum hunting (in the other 9 individuals in the thread), makes the game less fun, and just wrecks it when two people (who were the power roles in noob 25) go at each others' throats and consume the entirety of the game's thread.
I just want to hunt some !@#$ing scum - I need practice because I'm so damn bad at it in real games, and all this is just getting us no where.
Nice backing off Some One. Just two things: - Do you still think I'm scum ? If not, and even if yes, who (else) do you think is ? - Can you turn off invisibility ?
I can't say I get townie vibes from you based on the arguments, however (cough *noob 25* cough) we can see that's not always indicative of allignment.
I really don't know, 2 pages into the game. Ace was a little weird, but I think there are still many people who haven't posted more than just a couple times.
EBWOS - Do you still think I'm scum ? If not, and even if yes, who (else) do you think is ?
Right, move on. We can review and revisit later on in game days. Good question ZDS. I was going to ask you both if your getting anything from other players, things that might be discussed pertaining to them.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They hate us cause they ain't us.
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Though times are tough and this local shop is having problems. Ever since there have been problems with the economy there were fewer and fewer customers visiting the shop. The store owner took it upon himself to design and make new and fun flavors that would rival the famous brands that are found in the supermarket.
He spent about a month adding, subtracting and mixing to come up with unique flavors for his shop. This was his first time he went to these drastic measures to save his shop. His shop was his life and if it fails so does he. After creating 13 new flavors for his store he decided that he was done and let the ice cream speak for itself.
However this isn't your normal Ice cream parlor.. the ice cream here has a mind of it's own. And change isn't always a good thing. Some welcomed the change, others repulsed and some even so don't quite understand what changed with them. The first day after all 13 flavors were placed inside the freezer there was an "accident". The flavor now known as ButterMintz (A combinations of Butterscotch and peppermint ice cream) was found all over the kitchen floor and eventually down the floor drain.
No one important - ButterMintz Neutral Hazard has been found melted.
The owner didn't know how or why this happened, cleaned up the mess and continued with his remaining 12 flavors. The remaining ice cream knew that the changes that were made were the reason. And that those in the freezer were responsible for the "accident". They have gotten together to figure things out as they themselves don't want to find themselves licking the floor.
Welcome to Ice Cream Parlor Mafia.
Fun Flavors (1/12)
Someone - Sugar free Vanilla - Mafia Godfather lives to sell himself.
Floor Lickers: (11/12)
No one important - ButterMintz Neutral Hazard- pre game death.
IcePhoenix - Kiwi Strawberry - Vanilla Townie tossed out of the freezer Day 1.
Dragoon26 - Reese’s Minty Explosion - Loaded Candy Cream (Ooze) Townie stabbed to death night 1.
Ace - Death by White Chocolate - townie creamer (Doctor) thrown to his death Day 2.
EvilZak - Double Cookie dough delight - vanilla townie found dead with a sweet powerdy substance Night 2
Mad Mat - Cookies, Cream and Bananas - Mafia Goon tossed overboard Day 3.
Gubbins - Cherry Mocha - Vanilla Townie dead by strange powder Night 3.
Oni Kuma - Vanilla Fudge Walnut Brownie - mafia roleblocker. Beaten and thrown overboard Day 4.
Kpaca - Peanut Butter & Dulce de Leche -town Flavor identifier (cop) choked to death by white powder night 4.
J-Effe IV - Gummy Rocky Road - vanilla townie Knocked out owner Day 5.
ZeDorkSlipeur - Frosted Cake Batter - Vanilla townie died from Some One's wrath Day 5.
Archmage Eternal - Peach Sorbet -vanilla townie died from Some One's Wrath Day 5.
Replacements:
Current Status:
Game Over. Mafia WIN!
1. Bold your votes and unvotes please, this makes it easier for us. They should look like this: Vote Roja
2. If you are unvoting, I request that you write Unvote Roja
rather than just Unvote as this makes the vote counts easier and more accurate.
3. Any votes or unvotes not in bold will not be counted.
4. Do not communicate at night or day unless your role PM says otherwise.
5. Do not quote PM's or you will be modkilled. You can discuss the flavor and paraphrase it in your own words, but do not quote me.
6. Unvote before casting a new vote. Failure to unvote may result in the vote not being counted.
7. You may vote No lynch, and a majority of these votes will end the day without a death.
8. Please do not edit or delete your posts no matter how stupid a mistake you made. This will get you modkilled. This is your only warning.
9. Once you’re dead, you’re dead, so stop posting please. A single ‘bah’ post is permissible.
10. Even after you are dead, please refrain from discussing the game or your role with anyone, even other players who have also been eliminated. If you have any questions about this rule, please ask.
11. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 72-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Otherwise, you may be prodded or replaced.
12. If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you – if you do not submit a choice to me, tough! No choice will be made.
13. Lynches will require a simple majority of votes. Once a player has reached the necessary majority, his pleas are useless and any attempts to unvote will go unheeded.
14. If you are requesting a mod prod or vote count, please bold you request so that we can see it more clearly.
15. In order to keep this game moving, everyone is expected to post at least once every two to three days and if you don't, you may be replaced or modkilled. WITHOUT WARNING, whatever your side.
16. HAVE FUN. This is not optional.
17. Lastly and most importantly. Respect us and the rest of the players; I hope I do not have to modkill anyone.
************************************************** *****************************
I would highly recommend this tutorial if if you need to learn/remind yourself of the basics of play.
Sample Vanilla Townie PM:
Once again if anyone has any questions please feel free to PM me. I have no problems answering questions.
Currently I am looking at Monday the 6th as our start date.
Level 1 DCI Judge
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They hate us cause they ain't us.
Day 1 has begun. With 12 players alive it will take 7 to lynch.
Sure, but I have no faith in it helping whatsoever.
I think you just answered your own question.
I personally don't care much for the random stage either. So long as people talk, there are things to discuss. I would rather discuss serious stuff than jokes.
@ Ace - why do you support doing something you have no faith will help?
Your asking whos up for one. Are you up for one? You haven't stated.
I haven't been involved in one yet. I tend to disagree with them for the reason of giving scum clearer choices of who to target. But in this game I don't see how that could happen so could care less one way or the other.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
It's a complete and comprehensive answer compared to those given by basically all the others.
And that's basically me.
This is contradictory for your first sentence where you agree with a "rule of thumb" but disagree because I have "never done it before." I have never done it before because of the "rule of thumb."
Ever hear of masons? Obviously we can't say for sure if they exist, but they are likely power roles to be revealed by name-claiming (they would have two closely related names that make sense as a cohesive unit). Look at dictionary mafia, a name claim was guaranteed to reveal me and WoD as mason partners (which is why I opposed it there). Certainly, this isn't the only reason to oppose mass name-claiming, but nonetheless, it is still a factor.
Pretty damn sure I've pondered the cons outweigh the pros because the town is put into a situation that can only hurt them and help the scum. Sure, it could do nothing for neither party, but it won't be beneficial to the town. Seriously, ask yourself, if it was beneficial to the town to day 1 name claim - how come it's not done as a common practice?
It won't help, but it won't harm. I probably should have said "Sure, but I have no faith it's relevant whatsoever."
You have it right when you say:
Name claim is not a great idea in general. Leave it for when we can use behaviour to tease out some facts.
Poor choice of words on my part. Basically you would use behaviour in combination with claims to clear people or not.
Who? Whoever we think is scummy
The last game I played, the first person who suggested a flavor-based claim ended up being scum. Besides, it's just gaming the mod, so it likely won't give us any information. And even if it does, that would give the scum enough information to generate a false claim later if they need to. Let's actually play the game instead of hunt by claim.
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fos: Zds
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So you want to claim out of curiosity?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
.
Well in other games a name claim could point you to who is scum. Now in this game how is that possible? I don't like chocolate so you must be scum! No, theres no way to determine that based on ice cream flavor. So while this claim hunting is playing the game, all it is accomplishing at this point is to stall it out. It looks like it will not happen at the moment so I suggest we put it to rest and move on.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I provided reasons for why it's a bad idea when you asked me for them. I'm not making up a rule of thumb by employing your words and extrapolating on the fact that day one mass name-claim is not practiced anywhere I know.
No one here has taken any specifics of the game into account when mentioning their opposition to mass-claim.
*open palm, insert face*
Tell me one, just one (maybe two if one is that easy for you to find) game that day one name claimed to the town's benefit. I dare you, because seriously, I know of none. However, what I can say is that in many of the games I played in (Batman, Doomsday, Harry Potter, just to name 3), day 1 mass name claimed would have wrecked the town. Why do you feel it would be better to do it now with almost no behavioral analyses to formulate a claim order than to do it in the future when there is enough behavioral analysis to formulate a claim order? Furthermore, how do you know the specifics of this game enable there to be no valid reason for claiming to be bad? What makes you certain it's fine to name claim in this game without being detrimental to the town?
@ ZDS - why the double standard? How is my logic different or worse than anyone else's? If you are calling me scum, why aren't you calling everyone else scum, it's not like I'm the only one who doesn't like your idea? - I'm just the only one elaborating the most about why I feel it's a bad idea.
I'm wondering ZDS, you accuse SO of impling we can find scum this way and vote him. Why would you want a claim then? Also you do just point fingers at SO for going against it. I feel you chose one and latched on to them in order to get a wagon going on that person. I'm also starting to think that you knowing a name claim would prove nothing in this game and could jump on a player that voted against it, swaying the town early into thinking Some One is trying to hide from something.
Vote ZDS
They hate us cause they ain't us.
We have 3 opposers -
ZDS responds as such -
I respond to his question regarding my opposition -
He responds as such -
Heck, IP didn't give a reason, I elaborated on Skander's reason, and EZ just speculated.
In other words, how is what I said not clear-cut and informative when what Skander said, for example, was clear cut and informative?
This is assuming the scum wouldn't be lying. With a mass name claim, the scum can simply sit back and wait for a few other townies to claim, see a possible trend, and then they have a fake claim. In other words, mass claim of any kind would gain the town nothing and give the scum a whole lot of info.
Now, whether or not that info would be useful, I don't know. But the whole situation is gaming the mod, so it's kinda moot.
Vote: ZDS
Everyone, go read Chess. This is starting out eerily similar.
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Why are you so anxious to kill the random stage? Isn't the random stage supposed to be a little fun at the start at a game that is normally rather intense and scrutinizing. I also thought it was a needed really. It establishes a pattern. This strikes me as very scummy. Jumping on a point and then you jumped right on Some One. Why? Your attack on him seems random in itself.
This seems like the most relevent reason to not mass claim. Why should we make scum's job any easier?
Vote: Ace
The way he said "sure" to the claim, then turned around and argued against it, doesn't resemble an honest opinion in the least.
Yet I said it wouldn't help in the slightest. Mmmkay'.
Like Dragoon said, go check out Chess Newbie Mafia, where town thought they could game the mod. They were wrong, because I made it so they could not. This is 99% likely with this mod, and will be 99% likely with every mod in the future. A name claim couldn't do any truly catastrophic damage, but it binds us to a decision so early in the game. Name claims would hardly bother scum, as they are more than likely to willingly give their name, and give a fake claim. Ice-cream flavours are kind of hard to get any flavour out of (ha!).
Read a thousand posts in a game I'm not invested in? For evidence that won't even be statistically significant? Yeah, that's not happening.
Thanks for telling me precisely what I was arguing a page ago.
How can Dragoon have helped change Ace's mind when he changed it before Dragoon's first post?
More to the point, his opinion didn't "evolve". Look at his most recent post: he's citing a past example, from a game he modded no less, that backs up his current anti-claim position. There is no reason for him not to have had this example in mind when you proposed the claim. This, among other things, tells me that he knew the claim was bad to begin with and was passively trying to blend in - then town opposes the claim, so whoops, he was actually against the claim but he just worded it poorly. That's not evolution, that's going with the flow.
The I cannot beleive that there wasen't a randomstage Votecount:
ZeDorkSlipeur - 2 - Dragoon26, Archmage_Eternal
Ace - 1 - EvilZak
Some One - 1 - ZeDorkSlipeur
Everyone else isn't voting. (For real or for random.)
12 flavors alive, 7 to lynch.
And it's bad because if the scum do have a coherent theme, they are going to be able to slip through the cracks by false-claiming.
You could have latched on to anyone in the same way you latched on to me.
That is me taking the game specifics into account by realizing there is probably some type of theme whereby the scum are more likely than not going to have to false-claim, but are unaware of what exactly the townies would be. EZ clearly didn't do this in his post 24.
EZ didn't.
First, I wasn't the only one who opposed it. Second, just because it "doesn't SEEM" doesn't mean "definitely." It's normal for me to ere on the side of caution.
Why do you keep twisting things on me when it appears I am the only one who actually analyzed the flavor of the first post and realized the scum are probably going to have to false claim as a result of scum (in my experience ALWAYS) having to false claim?
Umm, you aren't aware. You said all three answers before mine were informative. However, mine just wasn't for you :rolleyes:.
I do applaud your expertly crafted plan. You latch on to one player, fail to address the points how you bring about a double standard, force that player to name claim first by twisting every single word against them (parading noobs), and then you and your scumbuddies soon know the theme of the town and what to false claim. Vote ZDS - twisting words, double standard, and not answering questions.
In gaming the mod, when looking at his noob 27 (NES) - we can see a name claim would have outed masons aside from doing (iirc) nothing. As a result, I believe being cautious is the way to go.
We'll cover why it's bad later, but you just admitted that information gathered from a mass claim might not be useful. Why on earth would you be in favor of something that isn't useful for the town?
No, that's logic. There are two possible outcomes for a mass name-claim:
1) We discover there is a pattern to the names. That can greatly benefit the scum because if there does happen to be some sort of pattern with the roles, the scum could potentially find the power roles. And before you say that's bull, if there's a pattern to alignment, there can just as easily be a pattern to roles. On top of that, the scum are going to be able to fake claim names and flavor, giving the town a harder time to find them when someone gets down to L-2 or whatever. In short, the scum gain a lot of information and the town gets nothing. Now, I don't think this is the case, but if it were, mass name-claim would be anti-town.
2) There is no pattern and this entire thought process is a waste of time. More often than not, flavor is thrown in to make the game more interesting and enjoyable, not to serve as sub-game in determining a alignment and roles. If you try to game the mod, you will likely be way off base. This is the more likely scenario, so this whole discussion is moot.
We're talking about mass-claiming right now, day one, which he is obviously against. Are you just trying to start a wagon?
This makes absolutely no sense. How does forcing the scum to false claim benefit the town? How would we even know the scum is false-claiming? You seem to be making these statements from the perspective of knowing more than you're letting on.
I believe he is referring to this :
And now to respond to a few other comments:
For someone claiming to be more interested in the reaction than the claim itself, you certainly like to bring up the pros of name-claiming. You also seem to forget the fact that scum can lie. (gasp!)
These two statements don't jive. The possibility of hinting at power roles is a completely legitimate concern. And like I said earlier, if you think you can determine alignment based on names (which you obviously believe) then determining roles based on names should not be completely far-fetched.
Just curious, but you made this statement after less than three pages of content and only 5 posts by Ace. What specifically did he say to make you believe so early that he is town?
Not necessarily true. Remember Rook and me in Chess? We were both town.
So his contingent reason lead to a rule of thumb. You talk about how each game is different and must be treated so. Going into this game, we don't know how much information can be revealed in our names, so it makes perfect sense to have a rule of thumb based on his reason.
Yes there is. And again, you act like you know more than you're letting on.
You yourself suggested the same thing in 25.
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Trying to figure out the arguments and counterarguments in this whole name claim business. Right now I'm not getting scum on either SomeOne or ZDS.
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Eh, scratch that. You're right, that was Rook's idea. I was thinking of the silly hypothetical situation MP put forward.
I guess that makes me look stupid...
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I don't like this. Why would the town want their themed power roles identified? This would just help out the mafia immensely.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
...really...REALLY?
I'm going to end this with ZDS right here and now. I'm not going to go back and forth with him any more because all it seems to be accomplishing is a major thread de-rail superimposed onto the random voting phase. This discussion is getting nowhere (with his selective quotes, inability to answer questions in regards to the double standard, really listen to what I'm saying, and etc.) and I lack the energy to make this Some One vs. Kpaca 2.0 (see noob 25).
Basically, I feel the same thing that is happening here happened in noob 25 and it was a horrendous error on my part to let it massively de-rail the thread, and I'm not going to let it happen again.
If people seriously believe I am scum and want my dispute with ZDS to continue, make it known and I will happily throw out more walls of text to further support my position. However, that was the incorrect thing for me to have done in noob 25 and it is the incorrect thing for me to do here because it discourages scum hunting (in the other 9 individuals in the thread), makes the game less fun, and just wrecks it when two people (who were the power roles in noob 25) go at each others' throats and consume the entirety of the game's thread.
I just want to hunt some !@#$ing scum - I need practice because I'm so damn bad at it in real games, and all this is just getting us no where.
I can't say I get townie vibes from you based on the arguments, however (cough *noob 25* cough) we can see that's not always indicative of allignment.
I really don't know, 2 pages into the game. Ace was a little weird, but I think there are still many people who haven't posted more than just a couple times.
As for the invisibility, why do you ask?
Right, move on. We can review and revisit later on in game days. Good question ZDS. I was going to ask you both if your getting anything from other players, things that might be discussed pertaining to them.
They hate us cause they ain't us.