Here is my mono R Akroma, Angel of Fury EDH deck. This deck was built primarily because pro blue and white is incredibly relevant in most EDH circles and because I wanted to build a deck that incorporated the game-winning Breath of Fury + Insurrection combo, even if it only worked once or twice. Turns out Akroma is pretty dang good at winning the game herself very quickly. Also, just so you are aware, Akroma can be played for her face-down cost from the general zone. However, my groupl plays that her face-down cost increases by two for each time she is replayed this way from the general zone. Her mana cost (5RRR) is otherwise unaffected unless she was played without morphing. Here goes.
I see Obliterate in there, but why no Magus of the Moon or Blood Moon (or possibly Both)? They seem really good in this type of deck. Also you might want to consider Greater Gargadon as a sack outlet when you use things like Word of Seizing, and Threaten. It makes it so the opponent never gets the creature you stole back
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I see Obliterate in there, but why no Magus of the Moon or Blood Moon (or possibly Both)? They seem really good in this type of deck. Also you might want to consider Greater Gargadon as a sack outlet when you use things like Word of Seizing, and Threaten. It makes it so the opponent never gets the creature you stole back
You'll also notice no Wasteland or Strip Mine because of the local banlist here. Moon effects were banned along with Back to Basics etc. Even "Gasp" Avalance Riders and Dust Bowl because a bunch of people were *****ing about nonbasic land hate being unfair or some nonsense. So much for that element of the game.
You know, I thought I had Gargadon in, but apparently I gave him the axe at some point, he may find his way back in.
You'll also notice no Wasteland or Strip Mine because of the local banlist here. Moon effects were banned along with Back to Basics etc. Even "Gasp" Avalance Riders and Dust Bowl because a bunch of people were *****ing about nonbasic land hate being unfair or some nonsense. So much for that element of the game.
I keep hearing people claiming that non-basic land hate or land hate in general is "unfair" or "unfun" and while this may have some merit... There is usually so much that can be done against these strategies it isn't even funny. If you are concerned about a form of land destruction people, you need to run some form of prevention, such as Time Stop, Cryptic Command, or any number of other answers in each color that stops the land hate in its tracks. Or you could just run enough lands in your deck that land hate doesn't really affect you.
Truth be told I am really getting pissed by people arguing that Land Destruction is unfun. I would be really annoyed if I couldn't play these cards in my Malfegor deck, especially since some of the lands I am facing with my Malfegor deck, tend to be more "unfun" than the land destruction (i.e. Maze of Ith, or Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale) and having answers for these cards is the difference between victory and defeat.
Note: this is intended more for anyone and everyone who argues that non-basic land hate is a problem than it is for the OP.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I would suggest some repeatable fling effects like that Cyclops (Bloodrock I think?). These work really well with your threaten effects as well as some of your other cards.
Firemaw Kavu(deals 2), Fling him (deals 4), Leaves play (deals 4). It is also a good way to put Homura into your graveyard.
If we weren't considering your play groups rules about playing Akroma's morph cost, could you otherwise always play her for 3 and unmorph her regardless of how many times she had died?
You are thinking of Bloodshot Cyclops, yeah he's good. The problem is finding room at this point.
I originally incorporated the likes of Savage Beating, Rage Reflection, Aggravated Assault, etc. but decided they were mostly win more cards. Akroma will essentially end the game in two attack phases if unanswered anyhow.
Thank you guys for your help I will probably be re-testing many of your suggestions.
@Dalkon: I agree completely with you in terms of the stupidity of barring nonbasic land hate. Ban Avalance Riders? Come on. The best thing my playgroup could come up with was "you can blink it and it is really good". Yeah, too bad Momentary Blink and Riders can only really be played in 1 deck (Numot) besides 5-color and they won't bother to waste the slots on that jank. I am a huge subscriber to the notion that it is your duty as a respectable EDH player to be able to deal with land hate to a certain extent. Sure, if someone is playing Land-D.deck it can be very annoying/debilitating, but those people that do are quickly and routinely hated out of play circles. Admittely, some cards deserve to be banned, imo Back to Basics and Blood Moon, but to ban anything that even remotely resembles them is wrong. You take a whole aspect of the game away by taking away specific cards that have a specific role (dealing with Maze of Ith and/or Tabernacle like you mentioned). What people fail to notice is cards like Wasteland, Strip Mine, and Dust Bowl are all symmetrical effects (unless Crucible is involved). I don't see the logic in banning them.
@Dalkon: I agree completely with you in terms of the stupidity of barring nonbasic land hate. Ban Avalance Riders? Come on. The best thing my playgroup could come up with was "you can blink it and it is really good". Yeah, too bad Momentary Blink and Riders can only really be played in 1 deck (Numot) besides 5-color and they won't bother to waste the slots on that jank. I am a huge subscriber to the notion that it is your duty as a respectable EDH player to be able to deal with land hate to a certain extent. Sure, if someone is playing Land-D.deck it can be very annoying/debilitating, but those people that do are quickly and routinely hated out of play circles. Admittely, some cards deserve to be banned, imo Back to Basics and Blood Moon, but to ban anything that even remotely resembles them is wrong. You take a whole aspect of the game away by taking away specific cards that have a specific role (dealing with Maze of Ith and/or Tabernacle like you mentioned). What people fail to notice is cards like Wasteland, Strip Mine, and Dust Bowl are all symmetrical effects (unless Crucible is involved). I don't see the logic in banning them.
Um.... Riders and Momentary Blink can be run in a great many decks (any Red / White General) including Razia, Oros, and Rith. However that is aside from the point. Why would a person waste a momentary Blink on an Avalanche Riders is my question? Momentary Blink is better used on things like Red Akroma to mitigate the cost of playing the card, or other "big comes into play effects" such as Bogardan Hellkite.
As for Back to Basics and Blood Moon, I disagree. Those cards are incredibly useful for weakening 5c-infinite-combo. One of the single most degenerate decks in the format. I would much rather have access to them, than to lose that access to them. Try playing a 5c-infinite combo deck in your play group that wins on turn... 3 or 4 against an entire table... see how quickly they unban Blood Moon and Back to Basics after that.
And honestly, I would ban the cards that break the Land Destruction, sooner than I would ban the Land Destruction. If you have a problem with Momentary Blinking an Avalanche Riders, don't ban the Riders, ban the Momentary Blink. Likewise if you have a problem with people recurring Strip Mine, Dust Bowl, or Wasteland, don't ban those, ban the Crucible that is recurring them. It is actually quite simple.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
Due to the U in the flashback cost, a deck needs to have access to RWU to be able to run both Momentary Blink and Avalanche Riders. I'm certain on that.
The problem with B2B and Blood Moon is that they don't just hose 5C Combo/Control. They hose most any deck that isn't mono-colored. I know a great many people that are in bi and/or tri-colored decks that run very few basics and would be screwed by either of these two cards. The problem is that these two cards discourage the format for what it is (Highlander) as a singleton format, forcing everyone to run a high percentage of basic lands in place of potentially cooler/more interactive nonbasics.
I also agree that they should have never unbanned Crucible, I'm waiting till someone pulls that crap on me with Wasteland/Strip Mine lock. I'm afraid I'm going to have to pull them across the table by their collar and proceed to beat them senseless for the sake of principle.
If your deck gets hosed by Moon effects then too damn bad. There's no way cards like that should be banned. Even EDH decks should have enough basic lands to be able to operate somewhat under a Moon. Or, they should have answers to the Moon effect.
If not, then they are most likely 5-color cheese and they deserve it.
Seriously though, I have 3 EDH decks (a 3-color, a 2-color, and a mono-color) and am working on a 4th, and none of them get owned by Blood Moon.
Also, Strip Mine/Wasteland + Crucible isn't a "lock" unless they Armageddon/Catastrophe first or they have Fastbond. Then it is pretty lame but so are a million other plays in EDH. I know my friends get a bit annoyed when I ramp into a big turn 3 / turn 4 Mind Twist on someone, but hey, it's EDH. Plus, we usually always play smaller multiplayer games, and SOMEONE at the table usually have an answer for the cheese.
Truth be told I am really getting pissed by people arguing that Land Destruction is unfun. I would be really annoyed if I couldn't play these cards in my Malfegor deck, especially since some of the lands I am facing with my Malfegor deck, tend to be more "unfun" than the land destruction (i.e. Maze of Ith, or Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale) and having answers for these cards is the difference between victory and defeat.
Note: this is intended more for anyone and everyone who argues that non-basic land hate is a problem than it is for the OP.
True, true. Many people have some preconceived notion of what 'fair' is, and it generally has nothing to do with the actual rules of the game. Magic is about presenting your opponent with situations that will cause them to lose the game should they not do anything to stop it. As such, it becomes each player's responsibility to know how to deal with those situations. Granted, it's not very fun to get your land blown up, but that's just one of the strategies of this game.
Sorry, I don't mean to derail your thread Risk.
Have they banned Price of Progress yet? You should give them a reason to.
Follow it up with a Fork and a Reiterate; that should help convince them.
Have they banned Price of Progress yet? You should give them a reason to.
Follow it up with a Fork and a Reiterate; that should help convince them.
Ha, that or Anathemancer which is sick in this format.
I haven't pulled out the Price of Progress but I will tell you what I did do not so long ago.
First some background info...I have been playing EDH for going on two years strong so I know the format really well and take a lot of pride in it...well I moved to Phoenix and this local store just so happened to be starting up EDH...perfect...until I saw their banlist which they had bastardized into mirroring the Dan Gray ban list which is really quite extensive (and includes almost all of the nonbasic land hate) as it promotes control archetypes and discourages combo...but I persuaded them into replacing a few of those key cards fallen victim to the banhammer. For whatever unholy reason they kept trying to argue with me that Kokusho, the Evening Star was far from broken and certainly not "banworthy". So for the next week I made a Mono-Black Kokusho deck with plenty of reanimation/sac effects and beat the snot out of unsuspecting "new-to-EDH" players. The jewel of that deck...Helldozer...which they forgot on their precious banlist, which was taking out 4 to 5 lands per turn from Cabal Coffers. Bloody brilliant.
I should seriously stop playing there though, so far I have gotten 4 cards banned personally:
Bravo. If they didn't respect the power of Kokusho, then I say they had that one coming.
They banned Genesis? No land destruction/moons? What's the name of the store where you play? "Blue Mage's Paradise"?
Must say though.....I can see the argument for Myojin. He was banned for a short time at my store (after an especially irritating game). Still, people are far too quick to declare something 'unfair' just because it makes baby jesus cry (and lose a match).
Oh, and about the deck - you should drop the Arc-Slogger for Heartless Hidetsugu....he'll make them want to ban the color red. Also, a little Anger and Lightning Greaves action would help out Akroma; it has always irritated me that she doesn't have haste. She's red...come on! White Akroma has haste, but red Akroma doesn't?
I play all 5 colors because it's more fun, anyone can play a blue deck with 30 counterspells or a red burn deck or even a land destruction in a 1 on 1 format, they're so much fun. This format is spose to be fun! Keep it that way!
Typically the aforementioned store runs 2HG with EDH...don't ask me why :-/, but thats what they do. I agree that point land removal, i.e. Stone Rain, even Sinkhole, is rather weak in this format, multiplayer especially. But there are cards like Helldozer that are just absolutely broken, 1v1 or otherwise. Likewise for cards like Wasteland and/or Strip Mine that give you an answer to broken lands without really taking up wasted space in your deck.
I too like 5 color, but I hate it when I sit accross from Progenitus.deck knowing damn well that my opponent probably has little or no intention whatsoever to play him and is only using the deck to have access to all of the best cards in their respective colors. Imo EDH is about flavor, and those decks have none of it...just broken card after broken card and typically a shaky ass mana base.
On a separate note: How do you guys feel about people not playing their general ever? It seems to me like it should be a requirement of some sort to play it at some point, or have it in play to win the game. Afterall your whole deck is typically built around that 1 card which ultimately defines your card choices or, at the very least, your colors. Thoughts?
I too like 5 color, but I hate it when I sit accross from Progenitus.deck knowing damn well that my opponent probably has little or no intention whatsoever to play him and is only using the deck to have access to all of the best cards in their respective colors. Imo EDH is about flavor, and those decks have none of it...just broken card after broken card and typically a shaky ass mana base.
On a separate note: How do you guys feel about people not playing their general ever? It seems to me like it should be a requirement of some sort to play it at some point, or have it in play to win the game. Afterall your whole deck is typically built around that 1 card which ultimately defines your card choices or, at the very least, your colors. Thoughts?
I've got a deck that fits the bill here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=160807
However, I very often cast my general after generating infinite mana, then make infinite tokens and then ideally cast Time Warp. Building a deck where you have no realistic ability to cast your general is poor deck design IMO. My manabase is pretty rock solid BTW.
Yeah thats fine with me as long as that sucker sees play. The way I figure, why bother playing EDH in the first place if you never play your general? I just don't get it. I guess maybe its just my local "meta" but 5 color good stuff is getting really monotonous .
Well the way that we interpreted the rules was that for every time you played Akroma face down, she would cost 2 more. Likewise if you hardcasted her, the same rules would apply. The cost to flip her, however, remained the same.
1x Akroma, Angel of Fury
Creatures (24)
1x Magus of the Scroll
1x Ashling the Pilgrim
1x Stigma Lasher
1x Keldon Vandals
1x Taurean Mauler
1x Viashino Heretic
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Changeling Berserker
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Keldon Champion
1x Shard Phoenix
1x Arc-Slogger
1x Kumano, Master Yamabushi
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Duplicant
1x Firemaw Kavu
1x Ryusei, the Falling Star
1x Flameblast Dragon
1x Homura, Human Ascendant
1x Hamletback Goliath
1x Knollspine Dragon
1x Dragon Mage
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Chandra Nalaar
Artifacts (14)
1x Sol Ring
1x Mind Stone
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Forisian Totem
1x Extraplanar Lens
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Staff of Domination
1x Vedalken Orrery
1x Illuminated Folio
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
Enchantments (4)
1x Braid of Fire
1x Breath of Fury
1x Pyrohemia
1x Dragon Roost
Spells (20)
1x Banefire
1x Demonfire
1x Fault Line
1x Starstorm
1x Unwilling Recruit
1x Threaten
1x Grab the Reins
1x Word of Seizing
1x Urza's Rage
1x Shattering Pulse
1x Hammer of Bogardan
1x Pillage
1x Aftershock
1x Wild Ricochet
1x Beacon of Destruction
1x Fissure
1x Incendiary Command
1x Wildfire
1x Obliterate
1x Insurrection
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Urza's Factory
1x Shivan Gorge
1x Spinerock Knoll
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mishra's Factory
30x Mountain
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
You'll also notice no Wasteland or Strip Mine because of the local banlist here. Moon effects were banned along with Back to Basics etc. Even "Gasp" Avalance Riders and Dust Bowl because a bunch of people were *****ing about nonbasic land hate being unfair or some nonsense. So much for that element of the game.
You know, I thought I had Gargadon in, but apparently I gave him the axe at some point, he may find his way back in.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I keep hearing people claiming that non-basic land hate or land hate in general is "unfair" or "unfun" and while this may have some merit... There is usually so much that can be done against these strategies it isn't even funny. If you are concerned about a form of land destruction people, you need to run some form of prevention, such as Time Stop, Cryptic Command, or any number of other answers in each color that stops the land hate in its tracks. Or you could just run enough lands in your deck that land hate doesn't really affect you.
Truth be told I am really getting pissed by people arguing that Land Destruction is unfun. I would be really annoyed if I couldn't play these cards in my Malfegor deck, especially since some of the lands I am facing with my Malfegor deck, tend to be more "unfun" than the land destruction (i.e. Maze of Ith, or Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale) and having answers for these cards is the difference between victory and defeat.
Note: this is intended more for anyone and everyone who argues that non-basic land hate is a problem than it is for the OP.
Firemaw Kavu(deals 2), Fling him (deals 4), Leaves play (deals 4). It is also a good way to put Homura into your graveyard.
If we weren't considering your play groups rules about playing Akroma's morph cost, could you otherwise always play her for 3 and unmorph her regardless of how many times she had died?
EDIT: Also, Savage Beating
I originally incorporated the likes of Savage Beating, Rage Reflection, Aggravated Assault, etc. but decided they were mostly win more cards. Akroma will essentially end the game in two attack phases if unanswered anyhow.
Thank you guys for your help I will probably be re-testing many of your suggestions.
@Dalkon: I agree completely with you in terms of the stupidity of barring nonbasic land hate. Ban Avalance Riders? Come on. The best thing my playgroup could come up with was "you can blink it and it is really good". Yeah, too bad Momentary Blink and Riders can only really be played in 1 deck (Numot) besides 5-color and they won't bother to waste the slots on that jank. I am a huge subscriber to the notion that it is your duty as a respectable EDH player to be able to deal with land hate to a certain extent. Sure, if someone is playing Land-D.deck it can be very annoying/debilitating, but those people that do are quickly and routinely hated out of play circles. Admittely, some cards deserve to be banned, imo Back to Basics and Blood Moon, but to ban anything that even remotely resembles them is wrong. You take a whole aspect of the game away by taking away specific cards that have a specific role (dealing with Maze of Ith and/or Tabernacle like you mentioned). What people fail to notice is cards like Wasteland, Strip Mine, and Dust Bowl are all symmetrical effects (unless Crucible is involved). I don't see the logic in banning them.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Um.... Riders and Momentary Blink can be run in a great many decks (any Red / White General) including Razia, Oros, and Rith. However that is aside from the point. Why would a person waste a momentary Blink on an Avalanche Riders is my question? Momentary Blink is better used on things like Red Akroma to mitigate the cost of playing the card, or other "big comes into play effects" such as Bogardan Hellkite.
As for Back to Basics and Blood Moon, I disagree. Those cards are incredibly useful for weakening 5c-infinite-combo. One of the single most degenerate decks in the format. I would much rather have access to them, than to lose that access to them. Try playing a 5c-infinite combo deck in your play group that wins on turn... 3 or 4 against an entire table... see how quickly they unban Blood Moon and Back to Basics after that.
And honestly, I would ban the cards that break the Land Destruction, sooner than I would ban the Land Destruction. If you have a problem with Momentary Blinking an Avalanche Riders, don't ban the Riders, ban the Momentary Blink. Likewise if you have a problem with people recurring Strip Mine, Dust Bowl, or Wasteland, don't ban those, ban the Crucible that is recurring them. It is actually quite simple.
The problem with B2B and Blood Moon is that they don't just hose 5C Combo/Control. They hose most any deck that isn't mono-colored. I know a great many people that are in bi and/or tri-colored decks that run very few basics and would be screwed by either of these two cards. The problem is that these two cards discourage the format for what it is (Highlander) as a singleton format, forcing everyone to run a high percentage of basic lands in place of potentially cooler/more interactive nonbasics.
I also agree that they should have never unbanned Crucible, I'm waiting till someone pulls that crap on me with Wasteland/Strip Mine lock. I'm afraid I'm going to have to pull them across the table by their collar and proceed to beat them senseless for the sake of principle.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
If not, then they are most likely 5-color cheese and they deserve it.
Seriously though, I have 3 EDH decks (a 3-color, a 2-color, and a mono-color) and am working on a 4th, and none of them get owned by Blood Moon.
Also, Strip Mine/Wasteland + Crucible isn't a "lock" unless they Armageddon/Catastrophe first or they have Fastbond. Then it is pretty lame but so are a million other plays in EDH. I know my friends get a bit annoyed when I ramp into a big turn 3 / turn 4 Mind Twist on someone, but hey, it's EDH. Plus, we usually always play smaller multiplayer games, and SOMEONE at the table usually have an answer for the cheese.
True, true. Many people have some preconceived notion of what 'fair' is, and it generally has nothing to do with the actual rules of the game. Magic is about presenting your opponent with situations that will cause them to lose the game should they not do anything to stop it. As such, it becomes each player's responsibility to know how to deal with those situations. Granted, it's not very fun to get your land blown up, but that's just one of the strategies of this game.
Sorry, I don't mean to derail your thread Risk.
Have they banned Price of Progress yet? You should give them a reason to.
Follow it up with a Fork and a Reiterate; that should help convince them.
Ha, that or Anathemancer which is sick in this format.
I haven't pulled out the Price of Progress but I will tell you what I did do not so long ago.
First some background info...I have been playing EDH for going on two years strong so I know the format really well and take a lot of pride in it...well I moved to Phoenix and this local store just so happened to be starting up EDH...perfect...until I saw their banlist which they had bastardized into mirroring the Dan Gray ban list which is really quite extensive (and includes almost all of the nonbasic land hate) as it promotes control archetypes and discourages combo...but I persuaded them into replacing a few of those key cards fallen victim to the banhammer. For whatever unholy reason they kept trying to argue with me that Kokusho, the Evening Star was far from broken and certainly not "banworthy". So for the next week I made a Mono-Black Kokusho deck with plenty of reanimation/sac effects and beat the snot out of unsuspecting "new-to-EDH" players. The jewel of that deck...Helldozer...which they forgot on their precious banlist, which was taking out 4 to 5 lands per turn from Cabal Coffers. Bloody brilliant.
I should seriously stop playing there though, so far I have gotten 4 cards banned personally:
Helldozer
Myojin of Night's Reach
Survival of the Fittest
Genesis
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
They banned Genesis? No land destruction/moons? What's the name of the store where you play? "Blue Mage's Paradise"?
Must say though.....I can see the argument for Myojin. He was banned for a short time at my store (after an especially irritating game). Still, people are far too quick to declare something 'unfair' just because it makes baby jesus cry (and lose a match).
Oh, and about the deck - you should drop the Arc-Slogger for Heartless Hidetsugu....he'll make them want to ban the color red. Also, a little Anger and Lightning Greaves action would help out Akroma; it has always irritated me that she doesn't have haste. She's red...come on! White Akroma has haste, but red Akroma doesn't?
I too like 5 color, but I hate it when I sit accross from Progenitus.deck knowing damn well that my opponent probably has little or no intention whatsoever to play him and is only using the deck to have access to all of the best cards in their respective colors. Imo EDH is about flavor, and those decks have none of it...just broken card after broken card and typically a shaky ass mana base.
On a separate note: How do you guys feel about people not playing their general ever? It seems to me like it should be a requirement of some sort to play it at some point, or have it in play to win the game. Afterall your whole deck is typically built around that 1 card which ultimately defines your card choices or, at the very least, your colors. Thoughts?
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I've got a deck that fits the bill here:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=160807
However, I very often cast my general after generating infinite mana, then make infinite tokens and then ideally cast Time Warp. Building a deck where you have no realistic ability to cast your general is poor deck design IMO. My manabase is pretty rock solid BTW.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
With official EDH rules does the morph cost of [3] increase with each time you play Akroma?
In other words, can she technically be played for the same cost every time?
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary