The purpose of this round is to introduce you to the format; you'll be competing in the regular format of 5CB - no special rules this round - but against fellow newcomers. Use this thread to discuss strategies or ask questions. Decklists are due in a week, and results will be posted shortly thereafter. Then, you're welcome to join in a regular round and see how you do.
For this round, I encourage you to avoid netdecking, or even researching the format beyond bateleur's article. This is far from my general stance – if a deck fits the metagame, use it – but I doubt anyone can metagame without understanding why decks work, and that takes experimentation.
EDIT: My apologies to bateleur; I noticed that the wording of rule 2.2 allowed a player to circumvent it by taking extra turns. I did a quick fix, and bateleur obliged me with an edit. But my hasty rewrite, which appears in bateleur's article, had the unintended effect of stopping wins before turn 4 (when it should be turn 3). Edited as follows (and included below in the rules): "A player may not submit a deck that can, against any deck, win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn."
Rules are posted below. When you PM me your deck, please indicate that you are submitting for this round. Submission deadline is May 27th, 8:00 pm PST.
Rules
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator (Mogg).
2.1a. The moderator acknowledges submissions and informs players of mistakes in a timely manner.
2.1b. A player may submit multiple decks, but only the most recent is counted.
2.1c. If a player's final deck is illegal, the moderator replaces cards in the deck with Library of Alexandria until the deck is made legal. Replacements are made such that the revised deck functions as closely as possible to the original.
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can, against any deck, win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn.
For example, Cabal Therapy + Swamp x4 is illegal because an opponent's deck may have duplicates of a card, but Cabal Therapy + Subterranean Hangar x4 is legal because Cabal Therapy can't be played until the third turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1), with the exception of the following banned cards:
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
2.5a. For each match, a player earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, a player that wins one game and loses the other earns only 2 points. Results assume perfect information and play.
2.5b. A table of match results is posted each round. Its rows represent players and its columns represent opponents. Match results reflect the combined result of both games played in a match; 3 is a game win, 1 a drawn game, and 0 a game loss. A player's points are listed at the end of his or her row.
How is the game handled as to knowledge of the opponent's deck? I say this because the article has some cards that are a lot more effective if you know what the opponent is packing. For instance, one of the decks in the article uses Voidstone Gargoyle, and can play it on the first turn. If they don't know the opponent's deck, that's a shot in the dark. That makes it better for the voidstone gargoyle containing deck to play first in the second game and second in the first game.
From the Overview, "Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information."
As one of the basic ideas of 5CB is that games should have no variance, you always play with all the information that you need. Which game a player starts in will never have an effect on the outcome.
Thank you for your submission. It is preferable, though, that you submit to me via PM (click on my name to send me a message). That way, other players won't see what deck you are playing until all after entering their own. If you want to resubmit, just send me a message.
a few questions about how this is played.
So 5 cards are submitted I get that. but how does it actually play??
I see a lot in the article regarding black lotus for a mana source which makes sense, but as an example say I go with a
Black Lotus
elvish champion
dark banishing
(only three cards needed for the question)
now with these cards, I can play an elvish champion, or a black lotus, but say, my opponent has a terror, does he just kill my champion and I'm toast, or do next turn I have the same 5 cards again to continue my next turn, burn through them all, and next turn again the same 5 cards, so basically every turn I could be playing an elvish champion?
So 5 cards are submitted I get that. but how does it actually play?
It plays as a game of Magic would if you had those five cards in your hand and no cards in your library...
...but with a few minor differences like you can't get decked.
So as Wesso says, if you want to cast Elvish Champion and Dark Banishing you're going to need more than just one Black Lotus.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
Rules are posted below. When you PM me your deck, please indicate that you are submitting for this round. Submission deadline is May 27th, 8:00 pm PST.
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
From your point of view all your have to to is design a deck, send it by Private Message to Mogg, then wait. Sometime soonish after the deadline a new thread will be posted in this forum containing the tournament results. (I say "soonish" because the results processing takes longer the more players there are, so this particular tournament may take rather longer than usual.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
From your point of view all your have to to is design a deck, send it by Private Message to Mogg, then wait. Sometime soonish after the deadline a new thread will be posted in this forum containing the tournament results. (I say "soonish" because the results processing takes longer the more players there are, so this particular tournament may take rather longer than usual.)
Oh, I see. So we don't actually "play" per se.
That's fine, this format makes it pretty obvious who wins based on the decks alone. I'm totally in.
(I say "soonish" because the results processing takes longer the more players there are, so this particular tournament may take rather longer than usual.)
Already 21 players. This is going to be a great round. The results are more meaningful when there are many players.
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
The purpose of this round is to introduce you to the format; you'll be competing in the regular format of 5CB - no special rules this round - but against fellow newcomers. Use this thread to discuss strategies or ask questions. Decklists are due in a week, and results will be posted shortly thereafter. Then, you're welcome to join in a regular round and see how you do.
For this round, I encourage you to avoid netdecking, or even researching the format beyond bateleur's article. This is far from my general stance – if a deck fits the metagame, use it – but I doubt anyone can metagame without understanding why decks work, and that takes experimentation.
EDIT: My apologies to bateleur; I noticed that the wording of rule 2.2 allowed a player to circumvent it by taking extra turns. I did a quick fix, and bateleur obliged me with an edit. But my hasty rewrite, which appears in bateleur's article, had the unintended effect of stopping wins before turn 4 (when it should be turn 3). Edited as follows (and included below in the rules): "A player may not submit a deck that can, against any deck, win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn."
Rules are posted below. When you PM me your deck, please indicate that you are submitting for this round. Submission deadline is May 27th, 8:00 pm PST.
Rules
0. Overview
Five Card Blind (5CB) is a weekly Magic tournament, run entirely within this forum. To compete, players submit five-card decks which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
1. Game Rules
1.1. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules.
1.2. Players' decks contain exactly five cards, which begin the game in hand. Players do not mulligan or sideboard.
1.3. Players' libraries begin the game empty. A player does not lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.4. A random effect produces the result that least benefits the owner of the source of the effect.
2. Tournament Rules
2.1. Players submit their decks to the 5CB moderator (Mogg).
2.2. A player may not submit a deck that can, against any deck, win the game or force more than one card in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn.
2.3. A deck may include any number of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1), with the exception of the following banned cards:
2.4. Each player plays one match, consisting of two games, against each other player. Each player is the starting player once per match.
2.5. Points determine tournament standings. Players are ranked, first to last, in order of decreasing number of points.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Edit- Nevermind, reading the FIRST paragraph is tech.
As one of the basic ideas of 5CB is that games should have no variance, you always play with all the information that you need. Which game a player starts in will never have an effect on the outcome.
I hope this helps.
EDIT: I'm a fan of the Chomsky quote.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Black Lotus
Black lotus
meddling mage
meddling mage
meddling mage
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
I've played 3cb a bit on other forums, and that was very fun.
I have my deck submitted
If you need to contact me, don't use PM's, use my IM handle or Email
EDIT: reading is tech
I will be working something.
So 5 cards are submitted I get that. but how does it actually play??
I see a lot in the article regarding black lotus for a mana source which makes sense, but as an example say I go with a
Black Lotus
elvish champion
dark banishing
(only three cards needed for the question)
now with these cards, I can play an elvish champion, or a black lotus, but say, my opponent has a terror, does he just kill my champion and I'm toast, or do next turn I have the same 5 cards again to continue my next turn, burn through them all, and next turn again the same 5 cards, so basically every turn I could be playing an elvish champion?
It plays as a game of Magic would if you had those five cards in your hand and no cards in your library...
...but with a few minor differences like you can't get decked.
So as Wesso says, if you want to cast Elvish Champion and Dark Banishing you're going to need more than just one Black Lotus.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
you only get one turn, and then let it play out from there?
I believe that because Black Lotus is restricted, this would be illegal.
You play a totally normal game. For example, you could play the following:
1x Plateau
1x Wild Nacatl
1x Path to Exile
1x Monstrous Growth
If you need to contact me, don't use PM's, use my IM handle or Email
If you need to contact me, don't use PM's, use my IM handle or Email
/crossesfingers
If you need to contact me, don't use PM's, use my IM handle or Email
^
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Oh, I see. So we don't actually "play" per se.
That's fine, this format makes it pretty obvious who wins based on the decks alone. I'm totally in.
Somewhat obvious.
Some matches take a bit longer to figure out.
Already 21 players. This is going to be a great round. The results are more meaningful when there are many players.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
To quote myself "I hate Smokestack". It can be VERY hard to work out what the optimal course of play is with a deck that can cast Smokestack.