Flameblast would have been cool, but I'm fine with Shivan staying. I really wanted the FTV art, though. I was hoping Dragon Whelp would be back with FTV art as well...
I thought that we could only have 'flavour-neutral' cards in M10, seeing as ShivanDragon is from Shiv.
unless i'm missing something.
They are trying to get back to get back to the original fantasy flavor. Every good fantasy game has a setting that helps give the cards extra flavor other than "big red dragon." Dominaria is that setting for Magic. The only difference between now and when Alpha was printed is that, back then, the only descriptions for Shiv lived in our imaginations. Now there are actual descriptions of the place.
As far as flavorful traditional dragons go...this guy is king. Exactly the tradition western themed dragon: Flies, breathes fire, and is a force to be reckoned with.
Just because this core set has new cards people are feeling like it is a brand new set. It is still aimed at new players. It will bring back the "color cards". The cards that say "I am a black card because I deal with the graveyard." Shivan Dragon is a perfect card to say "I am red. Just read what I do."
Why? this card has done nothing for standard ever, or really any format. It has no meaning beyond the fact that its an iconic but terrible card. They should have taken this opportunity to make a good dragon that is core set material.
@ Dano well at least it would be black bordered 7th edition... haha
Terrible? Really? I mean it certainly isn't a 6/5 flying haste for 6 mana, but it isn't inefficient, either. It's a 5/5 flyer with another ability, for 6. It's been outclassed by some more modern cards but certainly isn't terrible, and has seen competitive play.
I'm happy to see it, but would have really preferred new artwork, or even better, the original Melissa Benson artwork. I would really like it if Nightmare had the original Benson artwork, which is after all these years one of my favorite arts of all time.
I just got my first promo material for M10 and it shows overlapping images of the Intro Packs. Most of the foil cards are not visible, but the red foil is clearly Shivan Dragon with the art by Donato G.
Edit: On closer inspection it is pretty clear that the black foil is Nightmare.
The white Intro Pack - which is the first pack in the row - has what appears to be a brand new card. The resolution is too low to read clearly, but I believe it is a paladin.
It's not. It is a brand new card.
Paladin is the second word in the name.
the first word is "Lightwielder" or something like that (as I said, the image is too small to read clearly). cost is ?WW (maybe 3WW)
Seriously folks, why all the Shivan hate? This makes a significant part of the Magic crowd happy (I only play limited and casual). He is a windmill slam first pick and casual beast. What kind of card you would rather see in his place? 4RR 9/9 Flying Trample?
So people like me who started playing back in Beta and Revised can feel all warm and fuzzy inside. If you didn't play then you wouldn't understand.
Magic owes a lot of its success to that "bad" card. Think of him as the "Babe Ruth" of magic.
I agree completely. I started literally just before 4th was released. All my buddies that got me into were Revised guys.
There was nothing more awe-inspiring than seeing huge a Shivan Dragon flying around. Back then it was hard to come across those power rares...and a friend of mine managed to acquire three for his red deck.
Those were good memories....the days of Red Sligh, Stasis-Lock decks, the reign of terror of Jester's Cap and Icy Manipulator...
I'm glad to see it in. So is the art Giancola's? I wish it was Benson's.
I still remember when some people would trade a couple of Shivans for any given Mox
Hindsight is an absolute *****.
Don't you mean - a couple of Moxes for a Shivan?
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DCI L2 Judge GP:Madrid 2010 45th GP:Amsterdam 2011 74th GP:London 2013 67th Bazaar of Moxen 2013 32nd
I'm a competitive player (750th out of 150.000 players in limited worldwide). However I'm pretty tired to read ALL THE TIME on this website : WOW this card SUUUCKS !! as soon as it isn't a tournament staple. C'mon guys, You all should realize that Magic is not for Tournament/Pro players ONLY.
Magic has to be FUN and must have big dragons and big fatties.
It's certainly not us (more advanced players) who spend the most money on Magic.
And believe me, a Card like Bitterblossom or Pithing Needle for Kids or Casual players means NOTHING and basically SUCKS.
Oh and one last thing, Shivan dragon ROCKS in limited.
@ Dano well at least it would be black bordered 7th edition... haha
Black bordered, new-framed Seventh Edition. Everything from that set that was relevant, I already have 4x foil of, most of which have better art now (Birds being the most important). If this set's reprints are going to be mostly 7th stuff, I'll pass, and I'm pretty sure I'd say that even if I didn't have all that stuff.
Edit: The opposite of Serra Angel. I thought it used to be rare and was uncommon now. Wow, my head's in my butt.
Serra Angel was originally uncommon and is now back to where it started. Back in the day, Serra was bomby enough to make Limited fun, but not completely degenerate. Last time it was uncommon, in Fourth Edition, the only viable answers to it were Swords to Plowshares, Terror, and (a very distant third) Fissure.
If you want to see complete degeneracy in Limited (which WotC thought Serra was when they took it out of the Core), try a core set with TWO X-burn spells that can hit players. At common. In the same set as Channel. Can we look forward to more of that kind of fun, or is M10 going to be something that existing players will mostly ignore? I'm pretty sure we already know the answer.
Seriously folks, why all the Shivan hate? This makes a significant part of the Magic crowd happy (I only play limited and casual). He is a windmill slam first pick and casual beast. What kind of card you would rather see in his place? 4RR 9/9 Flying Trample?
I don't think it is hate so much as a resounding yawn. It is a perfect classic red card for an intro set, but people aren't going to get excited about it. Why? It gets printed all the time and isn't used by anyone that posts a lot on here (At least in any of the competitive forums).
I didn't even know it was in Xth to be honest. Because I don't care at all.
Yay!!!! another new spoiled card and more rants on why magic reprinted a bad tournie card. Im guessing everyone wants a set where every rare is tournie playable uh? I will admit when I open a Shivan in a pack of M10 im going to think Blah could of been much better. I also know that it could of been a lot worse. I would call myself a spike player I only play in PTQ's,GP's and FNM but I am also resonable enough to know they have to print cards that I know I will never play.
I don't think it is hate so much as a resounding yawn. It is a perfect classic red card for an intro set, but people aren't going to get excited about it. Why? It gets printed all the time and isn't used by anyone that posts a lot on here (At least in any of the competitive forums).
I didn't even know it was in Xth to be honest. Because I don't care at all.
Ditto for Nightmare. Maybe they'll surpise us with some super way to drop lands at an appalling rate to make these two relevant.
Well, OWN also made it into sideboards and even got used maindeck, IIRC, and we all know that's a great card.
Shiv is only nice because it's a dragon and because it's a classic MTG rare. A lot of junk is good in limited, but that doesn't make it something I want to pull from a booster pack.
I'm glad to see Shivan back, because of one reason only - nostalgia.
I remember the days of Fourth Edition - where Shivan Dragon and Royal Assassin were the #1 and #2 rares in the set, and both were considered a pretty fair trade for a Revised dual.
New players tend to LOVE Shivan, and the fact that it's no longer the best 6 mana red finisher simply means that these players can get their Shivans for $1-2 each. Perfect.
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It's a bummer if they never use them again.
unless i'm missing something.
IIRC, Shivan Dragon has been in every core set. Including Alpha. I dont think they had a set storyline then, so its just a generic dragon.
They are trying to get back to get back to the original fantasy flavor. Every good fantasy game has a setting that helps give the cards extra flavor other than "big red dragon." Dominaria is that setting for Magic. The only difference between now and when Alpha was printed is that, back then, the only descriptions for Shiv lived in our imaginations. Now there are actual descriptions of the place.
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
Terrible? Really? I mean it certainly isn't a 6/5 flying haste for 6 mana, but it isn't inefficient, either. It's a 5/5 flyer with another ability, for 6. It's been outclassed by some more modern cards but certainly isn't terrible, and has seen competitive play.
I'm happy to see it, but would have really preferred new artwork, or even better, the original Melissa Benson artwork. I would really like it if Nightmare had the original Benson artwork, which is after all these years one of my favorite arts of all time.
My guess is on the paladin being Paladin en Vec
Standard
GW Elf Combo GW
RGB Mana Ramp RGB
UW MerfolkUW
Member Of
Team Fail Factory
Stop complaining about how "bad" Standard is right now. If anything, its a lot better than what it used to be:
Affinity
Affinity
Affinity
Affinity
Affinity
Affinity
Affinity
Affinity
Affinity
Affinity
Affinity
So people like me who started playing back in Beta and Revised can feel all warm and fuzzy inside. If you didn't play then you wouldn't understand.
Magic owes a lot of its success to that "bad" card. Think of him as the "Babe Ruth" of magic.
It's not. It is a brand new card.
Paladin is the second word in the name.
the first word is "Lightwielder" or something like that (as I said, the image is too small to read clearly). cost is ?WW (maybe 3WW)
I agree completely. I started literally just before 4th was released. All my buddies that got me into were Revised guys.
There was nothing more awe-inspiring than seeing huge a Shivan Dragon flying around. Back then it was hard to come across those power rares...and a friend of mine managed to acquire three for his red deck.
Those were good memories....the days of Red Sligh, Stasis-Lock decks, the reign of terror of Jester's Cap and Icy Manipulator...
I'm glad to see it in. So is the art Giancola's? I wish it was Benson's.
Hindsight is an absolute *****.
Don't you mean - a couple of Moxes for a Shivan?
DCI L2 Judge
GP:Madrid 2010 45th
GP:Amsterdam 2011 74th
GP:London 2013 67th
Bazaar of Moxen 2013 32nd
Magic has to be FUN and must have big dragons and big fatties.
It's certainly not us (more advanced players) who spend the most money on Magic.
And believe me, a Card like Bitterblossom or Pithing Needle for Kids or Casual players means NOTHING and basically SUCKS.
Oh and one last thing, Shivan dragon ROCKS in limited.
Garrh! See? hehe...
Also, LETRIS is right. Imagine being at the release events for M10 and cracking a Shivan or even two. You'd j!zz in your deckbox.
Black bordered, new-framed Seventh Edition. Everything from that set that was relevant, I already have 4x foil of, most of which have better art now (Birds being the most important). If this set's reprints are going to be mostly 7th stuff, I'll pass, and I'm pretty sure I'd say that even if I didn't have all that stuff.
Serra Angel was originally uncommon and is now back to where it started. Back in the day, Serra was bomby enough to make Limited fun, but not completely degenerate. Last time it was uncommon, in Fourth Edition, the only viable answers to it were Swords to Plowshares, Terror, and (a very distant third) Fissure.
If you want to see complete degeneracy in Limited (which WotC thought Serra was when they took it out of the Core), try a core set with TWO X-burn spells that can hit players. At common. In the same set as Channel. Can we look forward to more of that kind of fun, or is M10 going to be something that existing players will mostly ignore? I'm pretty sure we already know the answer.
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I don't think it is hate so much as a resounding yawn. It is a perfect classic red card for an intro set, but people aren't going to get excited about it. Why? It gets printed all the time and isn't used by anyone that posts a lot on here (At least in any of the competitive forums).
I didn't even know it was in Xth to be honest. Because I don't care at all.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Ditto for Nightmare. Maybe they'll surpise us with some super way to drop lands at an appalling rate to make these two relevant.
I can dream right....
From Zvi's Sideboard, Day 2 deck from PT Hollywood 2008
1 Cloudthresher
2 Firespout
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Primal Command
1 Shivan Dragon
2 Squall Line
1 Sulfurous Blast
June 3rd 2009 - Ranked 70th Globally in Total Rating
Well, OWN also made it into sideboards and even got used maindeck, IIRC, and we all know that's a great card.
Shiv is only nice because it's a dragon and because it's a classic MTG rare. A lot of junk is good in limited, but that doesn't make it something I want to pull from a booster pack.
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I remember the days of Fourth Edition - where Shivan Dragon and Royal Assassin were the #1 and #2 rares in the set, and both were considered a pretty fair trade for a Revised dual.
New players tend to LOVE Shivan, and the fact that it's no longer the best 6 mana red finisher simply means that these players can get their Shivans for $1-2 each. Perfect.