Vintage Sligh

[Yug]

Is there a Vintage Sligh thread around? I seem to find a bunch of Burn threads...and their is a decent RGb beats competitive thread with a similar build to my Vintage Sligh deck. If I am posting in the wrong place, or someone knows of a better thread, please point me in the right direction.

Anyway, here is my build of Vintage Sligh; comments and suggestions appreciated.

Vintage Sligh
Lands 6 Mountain 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Wasteland 4 Wooded Foothills 1 Strip Mine Creatures 4 Grim Lavamancer 4 Simian Spirit Guide 4 Jackal Pup 3 Magus of the Moon 2 Goblin Cadets 2 Gorilla Shaman	Spells 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Null Rod 4 Price of Progress 3 Chalice of the Void 2 Shattering Spree 2 Red Elemental Blast 2 Pyroblast 1 Mox Ruby	Sideboard 4 Volcanic Fallout 4 Tormod's Crypt 4 Smash to Smithereens 3 Pyrostatic Pillar

The spot I keep toying over in my head is Goblin Cadets...I like Hellspark Elemental too.

[mondu_the_fat]

At what number do you set chalice to? While 0 is an option, isn't 11 cards that kill moxen a bit much?

[Yug]

Chalice is a metagame choice. I just recently added the Shattering Spree to stop Chalice at 1 against me. Now that I have Spree main I could drop Chalice out completely I guess. Probably adding 3 Hellspark!?!?

[LastManStanding]

make sure you focus more on the hate then they speed. That's my advise....

oh, gathan raiders is really good

[burek]

LastManStanding made an excellent point: turn 1 cadets may seem exciting, but just won't cut it in Vintage. You have to focus on being able to keep the four main decks (Drain, Ritual, Bazaar and Workshop) in check long enough to allow your cheap, efficient creatures to win the game. You'll need artifact-, grave- and combo-hate to do that. You can handle the artifacts (though that artifact destroy spell with flashback could be interesting), but the other three decks will destroy you. 4 Tormod's Crypt isn't enough to beat Ichorid, you should add some Pithing Needles or something as well. You'll need more disruption to beat Ritual decks and something to beat Drain.

[D00msday]

I think the reason there are no Vintage Sligh threads is that it just isn't viable in Vintage nowadays. To help out properly I think we need to know:

1) Are you trying to build a competitive deck or is this more for theme/fun?
2) Will you be playing in tournaments or against friends? What's your meta like?
3) Are you committed to this deck? Would you be willing to try more competitive mono-red decks?

[S.M.]

How do you stop a CoV set at 1 with Shattering Spree a card with converted mana cost of 1?

There's a Goblin that's hybrid but I can't put my finger on it........Half red/Green and he must attack each turn if able 2/1.......he's a must over the Cadets.

Those Simian's seem like a waste of 4 slots, and this is sleigh so you might not ever need the mana {Your hand drops fast regradless}........or there over costed body frame.

I can understand the Null Rod's, but find a way to get Black Lotus in the deck.

Price of Progress
Pyroblast
Shattering Spree
Chalice of the Void {this one is pointless to main considering your deck}
are all sideboard cards at best, but I do like the 2x Red Elemental Blast and I did run 2 of those towards the end of my sleigh days.

With that in mind you open alot of room up for cards that would give you a competitive chance in vintage bud.

S.M.

Originally Posted by Yug

Chalice is a metagame choice. I just recently added the Shattering Spree to stop Chalice at 1 against me. Now that I have Spree main I could drop Chalice out completely I guess. Probably adding 3 Hellspark!?!?

[weltkrieg]

depending on how powered your meta is, you should probably be packing more gorilla shamans aka mox monkeys maindeck. they are really good against affinity, too. also, why aren't there any fireblasts maindeck? that card used to be the backbone of sligh..it's what gives you the t4 win. that would probably be my choice over the prices of progresses (unless you see a lot of 43 land variants...or whatever the equivalent is in vintage). also, quite a few versions run mishra's workshops to get thru counters. mutavaults are something to consider, too. I'm not sure how effective magi of the moons are in vintage. try maindecking pyrostatic pillar if you have a lot of drain combo...they'll have to deal with it to go off, and you're packing an awful lot of speed to otherwise smack them with.

--welt

[S.M.]

Very good points.
I think the Moon's are a good choice these days with all the Non-basic being played {I know I hate it when my buddy sports them}.
The Shaman idea is perfect. Why not run 4 mox monkeys and own control over the board.......nice
The main reason I'm replying is for this key point:,
I'm glad someone else remembers Fireblast and how powerful that sneeky card is for delivering that final blow......when they least expect it! I don't know what a good number would be for today's meta, but I used to run 4.........and probably still would today I guess.

Originally Posted by weltkrieg

depending on how powered your meta is, you should probably be packing more gorilla shamans aka mox monkeys maindeck. they are really good against affinity, too. also, why aren't there any fireblasts maindeck? that card used to be the backbone of sligh..it's what gives you the t4 win. that would probably be my choice over the prices of progresses (unless you see a lot of 43 land variants...or whatever the equivalent is in vintage). also, quite a few versions run mishra's workshops to get thru counters. mutavaults are something to consider, too. I'm not sure how effective magi of the moons are in vintage. try maindecking pyrostatic pillar if you have a lot of drain combo...they'll have to deal with it to go off, and you're packing an awful lot of speed to otherwise smack them with.

--welt

[Binary]

Originally Posted by S.M.

How do you stop a CoV set at 1 with Shattering Spree a card with converted mana cost of 1?

You pay the replicate cost once, and target the Chalice with the copy as well. The Chalice will only counter the Shattering Spree that was played, not the copy created by Replicate.

[S.M.]

There would be far better options looking at it from that point of view {Smash to smitherens} SP since he stated the shatterings are in the deck to HANDLE CoV's that're set @ 1 {kinda didn't make sense then or now seeing 2 is what he still needs to spend in that situation regradless to break CoV}.
I might be the only one who see's this, but

Thanks for anwsering that question for me Binary.

Originally Posted by Binary

You pay the replicate cost once, and target the Chalice with the copy as well. The Chalice will only counter the Shattering Spree that was played, not the copy created by Replicate.

[Sad Clown Bad Dub]

Originally Posted by Yug

Is there a Vintage Sligh thread around? I seem to find a bunch of Burn threads...and their is a decent RGb beats competitive thread with a similar build to my Vintage Sligh deck. If I am posting in the wrong place, or someone knows of a better thread, please point me in the right direction.

Anyway, here is my build of Vintage Sligh; comments and suggestions appreciated.


The spot I keep toying over in my head is Goblin Cadets...I like Hellspark Elemental too.

This is part of a list taken from a recent top eight list, which made third place.

About the chalices: They may seem out of place here, but really, their only purpose is to be set at zero. If u dont have null rod, u can play this which will shut down a fatal yawg will or burst of eccel. Even if it isnt played on turn 1 it can be a decent eccel stopper for future moxen and lotus. Not to mention that if it is played on the first turn, will only leave key, time vault, mana vault, and top as the only sac outlets for tinker, which will slw down the drain playerès victory, shattering spree just doesnt cut it.

About the jackals and cadets: I too was skeptical at first, but testing showed their usefullness. Combined with the mana disruption of null rod and chalice, this deck showed to be able to race a drain player with a combination of burn via price of prog and bolt and the weenies with only two land out. Raiders is a too slow for this deck. Magus isnt that great either as he canèt effectively race the opponent or deny them mana accumulation. While he can mana skrew them, he is only really that good vs shop or ichorid, and is even then, a little slow for ichoird, as most decks run alot more basics now.

[Yug]

Originally Posted by Sad Clown Bad Dub

This is part of a list taken from a recent top eight list, which made third place.

About the chalices: They may seem out of place here, but really, their only purpose is to be set at zero. If u dont have null rod, u can play this which will shut down a fatal yawg will or burst of eccel. Even if it isnt played on turn 1 it can be a decent eccel stopper for future moxen and lotus. Not to mention that if it is played on the first turn, will only leave key, time vault, mana vault, and top as the only sac outlets for tinker, which will slw down the drain playerès victory, shattering spree just doesnt cut it.

About the jackals and cadets: I too was skeptical at first, but testing showed their usefullness. Combined with the mana disruption of null rod and chalice, this deck showed to be able to race a drain player with a combination of burn via price of prog and bolt and the weenies with only two land out. Raiders is a too slow for this deck. Magus isnt that great either as he canèt effectively race the opponent or deny them mana accumulation. While he can mana skrew them, he is only really that good vs shop or ichorid, and is even then, a little slow for ichoird, as most decks run alot more basics now.

Yep. I did net deck this list awhile back and have made a few changes to it while testing. I liked the Magus in my meta, but your right he is just too damn slow to even be a bother. The Chalices at zero are a must too. Once I removed them I started losing more often. This deck nearly relies on getting Null Rod or Chalice in play on turn one. The Simian Spirit Guides are the "power" in this deck and shouldn't be removed. CoV at one is tough against this deck and I have considered both StS and Spree. But Spree is usually more versatile. However I use StS maindeck in my Legacy Burn...so I am torn. Maybe I should just keep it with the StS in the board and not worry too much about first game CoV's at one. I would run Fireblast in the deck if I ran a burn deck. This isn't burn, this is sligh, and having only 6 mountains MD makes Fireblast nearly useless. Pup > Cadets > Tattermunge too, read the drawbacks one more time and you'll see why. the Main finisher for this deck is PoP and thats it. Relies on little crits/Grim/Bolt to get through enough times to hit a lethal PoP. Board Control of artifacts is needed throughout even to race. the deck comes out of nowhere and surprises the crap outta people.

Here is the orginal deck and i have seen it top 8 myself in several powered metas (this is the deck I want to try to make better...not sure how to do that though):

Mono Red Beats
Creatures (21) 3 Goblin Cadets 2 Gorilla Shaman 4 Grim Lavamancer 4 Jackal Pup 4 Mogg Fanatic 4 Simian Spirit Guide Instants (12) 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Price of Progress 2 Pyroblast 2 Red Elemental Blast	Artifacts (8) 3 Chalice of the Void 1 Mox Ruby 4 Null Rod Lands (19) 4 Bloodstained Mire 6 Mountain 1 Strip Mine 4 Wasteland 4 Wooded Foothills	Sideboard (15) 4 Smash to Smithereens 4 Volcanic Fallout 3 Pyrostatic Pillar 4 Tormod's Crypt

[Binary]

Originally Posted by S.M.

There would be far better options looking at it from that point of view {Smash to smitherens} SP since he stated the shatterings are in the deck to HANDLE CoV's that're set @ 1 {kinda didn't make sense then or now seeing 2 is what he still needs to spend in that situation regradless to break CoV}.

Odds are if they're playing Chalice they're playing other artifacts as well, and Shattering Spree can hit multiple targets.

[Yug]

I couldnt get my hands around the Ruby...so this is what I am rolling with so far, and it is nasty. I am thinking about changing the name to HaterRed. I am still debating between Fanatic/Hellspark/Magus of the Moon. They all work, but all seem underpowered against various decks.

Vintage Sligh
Lands 6 Mountain 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Wasteland 4 Wooded Foothills 1 Strip Mine Creatures 4 Grim Lavamancer 4 Simian Spirit Guide 4 Jackal Pup 3 Goblin Cadets 2 Mogg Fanatic 2 Gorilla Shaman	Spells 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Null Rod 4 Price of Progress 3 Chalice of the Void 3 Shattering Spree 2 Red Elemental Blast 2 Pyroblast	Sideboard 4 Volcanic Fallout 4 Tormod's Crypt 4 Smash to Smithereens 3 Pyrostatic Pillar