It seems like you have a bit too much mana accel for a deck who's general makes so much mana. It doesn't even seem like your deck is too mana hungry
Hmmm.....too much mana accel? The point is to ramp up Rofellos as fast as possible, and play huge stuff. I don't really understand how you can say the deck isn't mana hungry - the list has an entire section labeled "infinite mana utilization" (however, that doesn't mean I need infinite mana to use them.)
I switched Reap and Sow for Rites of Flourishing. I would rather use Rites in this deck since it fills two of this decks most basic needs, and considering the automatic advantage that I have by playing Rofellos, the benefit it gives my opponents is negligable.
Oh, he was banned, and for good reason; but he's legal now, and absolutely ridiculous. I've only played two games with him so far, but I won both of them.
The first game I played was four players, and despite they're efforts to team up on me, I still killed all three of them.
The second game was five players, and I went infinite on turn 5 and played Verdeloth making 600 saprolings.
The question went around the table in turn order, "Do you have an answer?"
The answer each time was, "Nope."
Turn six win.
Ridiculous.
Hypothetically, you could kill someone on turn three with just 3 forests and an Umbral Mantle.
To say he is "broken" is an understatement.
I actually felt bad for playing him, because it felt like I was cheating.
The stupid part is that when Rofellos was unbanned as a general, Metalworker was banned at the same time. That makes absolutely no sense to me, but whatever.
Rofellos is even worse in 1v1 play. With only one person to worry about, you have an excellent shot of untapping with Rofellos and three forests in play, leading to some crazy insanity. The Rofellos player can also load up their deck with heavy disruption like Plow Under, Stunted Growth, and spells that blow up lands while mana ramping such as Mwonvuli Acid-Moss and Reap and Sow, which is all backed up by a good deal of recursion spells.
Pretty frustrating when you're trying to test out a new general on MWS, and you run into the seemingly endless Rofellos decks.
Of course people always say "Rofellos is so easy to kill he dies to all removal in the game!!!111" Problem is that Rofellos hits play on turn 2 virtually every single time. I should not be FORCED to have an answer for Rofellos before they untap with him in on their turn 3, especially in the format of EDH. He's not as devastaing as Braids was, but if you can't stop Rofellos in 1-2 turns, you're in for an agonizing game.
The stupid part is that when Rofellos was unbanned as a general, Metalworker was banned at the same time. That makes absolutely no sense to me, but whatever.
Not to derail, but the point is that Metalworker could produce 14 mana the turn after he comes into play (even more in a good blue deck with card drawing spells, Rofellos will get 3 or 4 the turn after he hits play. Rofellos as a general also limits your color choices to only green.
Not to derail, but the point is that Metalworker could produce 14 mana the turn after he comes into play (even more in a good blue deck with card drawing spells, Rofellos will get 3 or 4 the turn after he hits play. Rofellos as a general also limits your color choices to only green.
You're forgetting the main thing though: Rofellos hits play on turn 2 virtually every single time with extreme consistency. Metalworker can produce more potential mana, but he is far less consistent than Rofellos because you will not always have him at your disposal.
Rofellos can also keep coming back again and again being a general. Green is definately amazing when it comes to mana ramp, and this allows the Rofellos player to replay him continously should he get killed/countered, which eventually leads to your opponent's resources getting exhausted.
Not to derail, but the point is that Metalworker could produce 14 mana the turn after he comes into play (even more in a good blue deck with card drawing spells, Rofellos will get 3 or 4 the turn after he hits play. Rofellos as a general also limits your color choices to only green.
Alright, name 1 non-Karn, non-Sharuum deck that's going to draw an opening hand of 7 artifacts most of the time (Sharuum probably wouldn't even hit that). 14 mana is an exaggeration; in a deck with a generous amount of artifacts, you're probably getting somewhere between 4 and 8 mana. And Rofellos is guaranteed X mana on turn X (X>2 and X~<~6), as long as you're running a decent amount of Forests. Also, as the guy above me said, he's pretty much unkillable, apart from bottom of library tricks. Rofellos is teh pwnage (I don't run him and I'll admit it).
I feel that the strength of Rofellos is being greatly exaggerated (not just in this thread, but in general). While I cannot speak for his strength in multiplayer, as I never play multiplayer EDH, Rofellos is certainly manageable in duels. He is one of the better generals, but has bad match-ups, and at least as of now should not be considered for re-banning.
People need to learn to adjust for new generals entering the metagame, especially one as popular as Rofellos. If you feel that your deck is the type that needs to immediately deal with Rofellos (and not all of them do) than add more removal, and/or silver bullets to handle the elf, there are numerous options in every color. I for one am glad Rofellos was un-banned, as there is now another competitive general without blue or black in it's mana cost.
Mono green can be very limiting, Rofellos is far from unbeatable, if you are actively trying to beat Rofellos and failing you are most likely:
1. Not playing sufficient removal/silver bullets in duels and expecting every game to go to turn 20. Or have not adjusted your deck for Rofellos entering the meta.
2. Playing a weak general that would also lose to many other strong generals.
3. Playing a weak deck.
4. Are playing a general that is just a bad match-up for Rofellos (every deck has a few bad matchups), and there are much less of these than people would have you believe.
I play EDH competitively and have played against many Rofellos lists, including turbo-fat.dec, land destruction/prison builds, mana ramp, and even elf themed builds and would consider myself at least even in the match-up. I was losing often to Rofellos, but after making a few adjustments to my deck I was able to turn the match-up around, without losing ground in others. There are many generally useful cards that hate Rofellos effectively, it just requires a little effort on your part to figure out what is the best configuration of hate for your deck.
Now onto the topic of Metalworker being banned and Rofellos being unbanned. I am in agreement with Surging Chaos that Rofellos (as a general of course) is much better than having metalworker in your deck. I strongly feel that metalworker should not have been banned, it is the most fragile permanent in the game, an artifact creature and really only truly shined in a few decks. The best argument I have heard in this debate in favor of worker was that worker made great decks better (Sharuum for example) while unbanning Rofellos created an entirely new archetype. However, there are many better cards that are still legal, and every color had many ways to deal with Metalworker before it got active, not to mention the constraints it put on deck building to truly abuse. In short Rofellos is better, but both are fine.
I haven't played this deck ever but it just seems like if you've already got 6 mana on turn 3 and 8 mana on turn 4 virtually every time it seems like you're rather draw another theat than a far wanderings or rampant growth.
I haven't played this deck ever but it just seems like if you've already got 6 mana on turn 3 and 8 mana on turn 4 virtually every time it seems like you're rather draw another theat than a far wanderings or rampant growth.
Mana ramp exponentially increases your total mana with Rofellos. This means you can play big Timmy cards like Crush of Wurms effortlessly and get more bang for you buck on spells that want tons of mana pumped into them like Wurmcalling, Nemata, Grove Guardian, and Centaur Glade.
Plus, you need a nice amount of mana to play these spells should Rofellos be killed. The moment he resolves, there's a huge bullseye on him for good reason. The extra lands are good so you can continously replay Rofellos.
Updated the list with my newest changes. I took out the elf sub-theme, and focused on making Rofellos just as nasty and efficient as he can possibly be. Plow Under is amazing; that and all of the other land destruction I've added makes this deck incredibly difficult to keep up with. As I mention in the top post, the list is tweaked for multiplayer.
How about Deadwood Treefolk? He's like a fatter Witness and can therefore serve 2 purposes!
As well, I find that a good way to keep up with some of the scarier artifact decks out there is Molder Slug. These are cards I have in my Rofellos deck.
Also, Tsabo's Web has always been a favourite of my personal tech, and in a deck with not a single nonbasic, it shines!
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
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Six mana on turn three......every game.
It's like cheating.
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
---- ROFLSTOMP ----
1 Staff of Domination
1 Sword of the Paruns
1 Umbral Mantle
---- Infinite Mana Utilization ----
1 Verdeloth the Ancient
1 Nemata, Grove Guardian
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Ant Queen
1 Killer Bees
1 Centaur Glade
---- Fat ----
1 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
1 Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
1 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Primalcrux
1 Verdant Force
1 Silklash Spider
1 Crush of Wurms
---- Other Creatures ----
1 Dosan, the Falling Leaf
1 Ohran Viper
1 Multani's Acolyte
1 Masked Admirers
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Harmonize
1 Beacon of Creation
1 Howl of the Night Pack
---- Tutor ----
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Natural Order
1 Chord of Calling
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Primal Command
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Sylvan Tutor
---- Recursion ----
1 Genesis
1 Eternal Witness
1 Regrowth
1 Reclaim
1 Revive
1 Restock
1 Recollect
1 Squall Line
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Desert Twister
1 Acidic Slime
1 Creeping Mold
1 Feast of Worms
1 Reap and Sow
1 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1 Plow Under
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Mold Shambler
---- Mana Accel ----
1 Gaea's Bounty
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Rites of Flourishing
1 Mana Reflection
---- Land ----
40 Forest
This deck is designed for multiplayer; if I wanted to tweak the list for duels, I would add three more Stone Rains.
Intelligent comments and constructive suggestions are welcome.
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Hmmm.....too much mana accel? The point is to ramp up Rofellos as fast as possible, and play huge stuff. I don't really understand how you can say the deck isn't mana hungry - the list has an entire section labeled "infinite mana utilization" (however, that doesn't mean I need infinite mana to use them.)
I switched Reap and Sow for Rites of Flourishing. I would rather use Rites in this deck since it fills two of this decks most basic needs, and considering the automatic advantage that I have by playing Rofellos, the benefit it gives my opponents is negligable.
Then again the "new site" doesn't ban anything ATM except braids.
The first game I played was four players, and despite they're efforts to team up on me, I still killed all three of them.
The second game was five players, and I went infinite on turn 5 and played Verdeloth making 600 saprolings.
The question went around the table in turn order, "Do you have an answer?"
The answer each time was, "Nope."
Turn six win.
Ridiculous.
Hypothetically, you could kill someone on turn three with just 3 forests and an Umbral Mantle.
To say he is "broken" is an understatement.
I actually felt bad for playing him, because it felt like I was cheating.
Rofellos is even worse in 1v1 play. With only one person to worry about, you have an excellent shot of untapping with Rofellos and three forests in play, leading to some crazy insanity. The Rofellos player can also load up their deck with heavy disruption like Plow Under, Stunted Growth, and spells that blow up lands while mana ramping such as Mwonvuli Acid-Moss and Reap and Sow, which is all backed up by a good deal of recursion spells.
Pretty frustrating when you're trying to test out a new general on MWS, and you run into the seemingly endless Rofellos decks.
Of course people always say "Rofellos is so easy to kill he dies to all removal in the game!!!111" Problem is that Rofellos hits play on turn 2 virtually every single time. I should not be FORCED to have an answer for Rofellos before they untap with him in on their turn 3, especially in the format of EDH. He's not as devastaing as Braids was, but if you can't stop Rofellos in 1-2 turns, you're in for an agonizing game.
Yes, Upheaval is still banned.
Banned list is here: http://edh.truespace.ca/EDH_Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=261&sid=becd5c61d6adcacc6893ce0301f26c6e
Not to derail, but the point is that Metalworker could produce 14 mana the turn after he comes into play (even more in a good blue deck with card drawing spells, Rofellos will get 3 or 4 the turn after he hits play. Rofellos as a general also limits your color choices to only green.
You're forgetting the main thing though: Rofellos hits play on turn 2 virtually every single time with extreme consistency. Metalworker can produce more potential mana, but he is far less consistent than Rofellos because you will not always have him at your disposal.
Rofellos can also keep coming back again and again being a general. Green is definately amazing when it comes to mana ramp, and this allows the Rofellos player to replay him continously should he get killed/countered, which eventually leads to your opponent's resources getting exhausted.
...fix'd. Seriously, I have no idea why the heck they even tried to unban this guy...
Alright, name 1 non-Karn, non-Sharuum deck that's going to draw an opening hand of 7 artifacts most of the time (Sharuum probably wouldn't even hit that). 14 mana is an exaggeration; in a deck with a generous amount of artifacts, you're probably getting somewhere between 4 and 8 mana. And Rofellos is guaranteed X mana on turn X (X>2 and X~<~6), as long as you're running a decent amount of Forests. Also, as the guy above me said, he's pretty much unkillable, apart from bottom of library tricks. Rofellos is teh pwnage (I don't run him and I'll admit it).
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
People need to learn to adjust for new generals entering the metagame, especially one as popular as Rofellos. If you feel that your deck is the type that needs to immediately deal with Rofellos (and not all of them do) than add more removal, and/or silver bullets to handle the elf, there are numerous options in every color. I for one am glad Rofellos was un-banned, as there is now another competitive general without blue or black in it's mana cost.
Mono green can be very limiting, Rofellos is far from unbeatable, if you are actively trying to beat Rofellos and failing you are most likely:
1. Not playing sufficient removal/silver bullets in duels and expecting every game to go to turn 20. Or have not adjusted your deck for Rofellos entering the meta.
2. Playing a weak general that would also lose to many other strong generals.
3. Playing a weak deck.
4. Are playing a general that is just a bad match-up for Rofellos (every deck has a few bad matchups), and there are much less of these than people would have you believe.
I play EDH competitively and have played against many Rofellos lists, including turbo-fat.dec, land destruction/prison builds, mana ramp, and even elf themed builds and would consider myself at least even in the match-up. I was losing often to Rofellos, but after making a few adjustments to my deck I was able to turn the match-up around, without losing ground in others. There are many generally useful cards that hate Rofellos effectively, it just requires a little effort on your part to figure out what is the best configuration of hate for your deck.
Now onto the topic of Metalworker being banned and Rofellos being unbanned. I am in agreement with Surging Chaos that Rofellos (as a general of course) is much better than having metalworker in your deck. I strongly feel that metalworker should not have been banned, it is the most fragile permanent in the game, an artifact creature and really only truly shined in a few decks. The best argument I have heard in this debate in favor of worker was that worker made great decks better (Sharuum for example) while unbanning Rofellos created an entirely new archetype. However, there are many better cards that are still legal, and every color had many ways to deal with Metalworker before it got active, not to mention the constraints it put on deck building to truly abuse. In short Rofellos is better, but both are fine.
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make money for free online.
Looking for Karakas, Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Aether Vials and more
Mana ramp exponentially increases your total mana with Rofellos. This means you can play big Timmy cards like Crush of Wurms effortlessly and get more bang for you buck on spells that want tons of mana pumped into them like Wurmcalling, Nemata, Grove Guardian, and Centaur Glade.
Plus, you need a nice amount of mana to play these spells should Rofellos be killed. The moment he resolves, there's a huge bullseye on him for good reason. The extra lands are good so you can continously replay Rofellos.
---
1 Creeping Mold
1 Harmonize
1 Howl of the Night Pack
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Natural Order
1 Restock
1 Spellbane Centaur
1 Unyaro Bees
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Worldly Tutor
---
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
WUB Sharuum, the Hegemon
UGEdric, Spymaster of Trest
As well, I find that a good way to keep up with some of the scarier artifact decks out there is Molder Slug. These are cards I have in my Rofellos deck.
Also, Tsabo's Web has always been a favourite of my personal tech, and in a deck with not a single nonbasic, it shines!