So I've put together a fun little Savra deck and have been in the process of tweaking it. What you see is my current list. I'll walk you through it a little bit.
Savra's abalities let you control creatures if you build around it, so thats what I did. The majority of time, if I can keep Savra in play, I can keep the board clear of threats that are creatures. That worked great, but I found 2 problems with my initial versions of my deck. The first was that I wasn't disruptive enough to whatever my opponents were doing that wasn't creature based. I rectified that primarily with the discard. If I can keep my drill down my opponents to an empty hand and force them into playing from their topdeck, I'm in good shape. The bonus is that the majority of my discard effects work with Savra (the mindwarper works with enough other things to be a neat other option). The other problem I had was I'd take control and then the game would still drag on forever, I upped my threat count in the hopes of speeding things up.
Since its a green/black deck that runs alot of creatures and sends them to the grave often, the Survival Toolbox and Oversold/Oath of Ghouls engines just screamed for inclusion. From there it was finding neat interactions with Savra, building card advantage and filling out the deck. Some things were brutal - evoke is a sacrifice effect so Mournwhelk is nasty; Somethings were alot weaker in practice- Green Creatures and Tokens are surprisingly worthless, I expected great things from Deranged Hermit and was dissapointed. Other things just weren't powerful/versatile enough (see Nantuko Husk and analogues).
The other thing I've stressed with this deck is finding ways for cards to be useful in multiple ways. The Cemetary Reaper not only generates Black Creature tokens to sacrifice, but it also fights other recursion strategies and maintains Oath superiority. Phyrexian Processor can generate black tokens to Sac, or just plain end the game with a stream of 10/10s. This deck loves all 3 of Liliana's abilities.
Any thoughts on the things I can do to improve this?
BRG Xira Arien BRG UR Melek, Izzet Paragon UR WUG Jenara, Asura of War WUG WRG Mayael the Anima WRG WB Triad of Fates WB BG Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots BR WR Aurelia the Warleader WR WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores WBG WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
Granted there is a built-in gravepact with Savra... having both down is pretty brutal as well.. Mind slash looks sick in a savra deck especially since it hits lands too.
I thought about Mind Slash, but I had decided against it initially. It had 3 strikes against it in my estimation.
1. By itself, it does nothing. That's a huge minus right there. All my other discard effects knock cards out, or beat, or something. Mind Slash lets me do something with my other cards, but does nothing by itself.
2. It's a noncreature permananent that has to sit in play. With how many sweepers I see in this format, cards have to be pretty powerful to rely on them sitting out there unmolested. If Oversold Cemetary is allowed to sit in play for a few turns, it generates me a huge advantage, and one I can't easily get elsewhere. Does mind Slash give me the same benefit? It doesn't seem like it.
3. It's not a creature. With the tools available in this deck currently, it's much easier to get a creature out of my deck then a noncreature. It's also much easier to get multiple uses out of a creature in case of targetted removal than the limited recursion that I have for noncreatures.
It's not a terrible idea, certainly allowing me to pick and choose as to what I can pull out of thier hands is worth something. But that's why I hadn't initially included Mind Slash.
I really hate discussion Grave Pact, but I suppose it's unavoidable.
There are a few key points.
If I have Savra, I don't need Grave Pact. I really don't. If Savra is active, it's ridiculously hard for my opponents to keep creatures on the board. I have several card advantage engines and they are pretty versatile. Hell, the 2 multicolored, dredging, self sacrificing creatures can each keep Savra in business by their lonesome. Since Savra is my general, accessing her is easy and pretty much always an option. The primary 2 ways in getting ahead of my Savra based board control are mass reanimation (withered wretch and cemetary reaper are there to combat) or token generation. I'd rather attack the token generation directly (Viridian Zealot, Acidic Slime or targetted removal like Visara, Master of the Wild Hunt, Plaguelord) then try and simple double my sac benefits and brute force it. Besides, If I'm falling so behind that Savra cannot keep up, I'd benefit more from a sweeper effect (Deed, Boiler, Stone) than the pact.
But that's in situations where I do have Savra active. Doesn't Grave Pact shore up weaknesses when Savra isn't active? Not Really.
I'd have to draw the pact, which means tutor for it. Since the best thing an opponent can do to take Savra away from me is hide her in my deck, and it's easier for this deck to tutor out Savra than gravepact, it's not a better option there. I have better ways to get out of Meddling Mage locks or other silliness than hoping to draw a same casting cost analygous card.
The only situation I can think of where I would be happy to have Grave Pact instead of Savra is when I lack the life to pay Savra's trigger. In those cases however, I'd be better off getting life gain (Gutless Ghoul, my green creatures,token generators or mass sac effects) than the Pact.
It's like if you have a coat with a magic pocket. Everytime you reach into that pocket, you pull out a handful of money. Everytime, no matter what, it's basically a bottomless inexhaustable supply of money. That's what the Savra is. But to add an extra pocket on the same coat that does the same thing (Grave Pact) serves little to no benefit.
Or am I missing a major situation where I'd be locked out of Savra and the deck would be better off trying to force through the Grave Pact rather than combat the lock in the first place?
I agree with a lot of your points i just thought that a no-life-needed forced sac is better along with the fact that creatures are the most commonly dealt with factor in the game with the massive sweeps and spot removal. Pact would almost surely stick around longer than Savra. And there's never anything wrong with doubling up the forced sac effect and making the deck that much more efficient seems good IMO. But nonetheless it is your choice and deck... those are just my thoughts:P
The thing with Pact is if I need it, I'm going to have to tutor for it. If I'm going to be blowing a tutor, I'd rather tutor for something like the Greaves to protect Savra, or a discard effect to leave my opponent handless and therefor helpless.
As for life, it's not a concern. I'm almost always comfortable making a processor for 10+ life, rarely worry about my life total dipping too low, and frankly, have a habit of using it as a weapon with Magus of the Mirror.
So after playing with this deck for a bit, I've made some changes, particularly after learning alot about it. That, and we have Zendikar cards that can be helpful.
First, the deck is too slow and too mana intensive. I never want to miss a land drop with this thing. While there some nice mana development tools, there needs to be more. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt aren't considerations, becuase I don't feel like adding something to this deck that is quasi-banned. So I cut a few of the slower and clunkier cards for more mana tools.
Rampant Growth is a whole turn of acceleration, its got no recursion value, but a turn matters. The ranger is civic wayfarer #2 and The Oracle is just beyond powerful. While the Oracle doesn't have synnergy with the general, theres enough toys in here that cuase shuffling of the deck, as well as what Scroll Rack can accomplish with him in play. He seriously gives a huge advantage.
As for what was cut, those are all things that don't have any effect early game, and were either clunky/ineffective, or too risky.
Taking out a beater with no synnergy with the deck and replacing it with a beater that uses synnergy to generate massive card advantage, for the same mana cost. Yes Please.
Still attacking the hand, but one of these creatures is slow and deliberate. The other is a tactical nuke. Other creatures can fill the role of the warper, but the slicer can get it done fast when collarateral damage isnt a concern.
The rotwurm is dissapointing, and frankly Cabal Archon does it's job better. Augur speeds the deck up and is another creature that can be in play before Savra.
I do love the Ancient, but I was playing it becuase I liked it more then becuase it was good. Especially with Mindwarper gone, it can get cut. Shriekmaw gives me a quick answer to most of the power generals (not Zur, but Arcum and Roffelos) and has synnergy.
Zendikar upgrade that speaks for itself. Not playing other workable fetches becuase life loss matters enough with this deck to make them not worth it, likewise the CIPT of the expanse makes it an easy cut.
That leaves my hard choice, which is my graveyard manipulation tools. Currently, I'm running the following two:
Wretch has no synnergy, but is very powerful and quick. the Reaper is much slower, but creates black creature tokens (always nice) and if given time is very threatening. Other cards that I've considered for these slots are:
Or am I missing a major situation where I'd be locked out of Savra and the deck would be better off trying to force through the Grave Pact rather than combat the lock in the first place?
Hinder, Bant Charm, and Hallowed Burial usually mess up my plans whenever I'm playing a deck that wants it's general in play.
Grave Pact should be an auto include; it compliments your general very well and with Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth the BBB casting cost isn't that bad.
Wood Elves is a good choice. I'll replace the Ranger with that. That way, I still have 2 accelerators, but they are functionally different. I'm a fan.
Endrekh Sahr, not so much. He's does nothing for me for the first turn, and then once he starts spitting out tokens, I still need a sac outlet. I think everytime I see him, I'd have rather drawn the Creakwood Leige, who's tokens are multicolored and makes all my other creatures more threatening.
Archdemon of Unx seems like a bad version of Doomgape for this deck.
Tortured Existence seems rather low on the powerlevel scale. I have many better recursive options. I just can't see wanting it, when I would have better options to return creatures to my hand, and have plenty of options to return creatures to play.
Greater Good doesn't seem that great to me. Most of the creatures I'd be sacrificing are 3 power or less (ussually less). Even with being able to use cards out of my graveyard, its less than ideal.
Regarding, Grave Pact - Again, in situations where my general gets sent to the bottom of my library, its easier to tutor for the general then it is to tutor for Pact. I'm not worried about Savra getting shuffled into my library.
And if I was, grave pact is a pretty poor answer to those situations, becuase I'd have to draw it.
Allow me to give my side for the archdemon of unx, it's not bad 6/6 flying trample for 7, and you sac a creature to him on your upkeep, and he gives you back a 2/2 zombie that you can block or sac to something else for. He can turn janky green tokens into useful black tokens, or even those 0/1 thrulls into 2/2 zombies.
Rampant growth seems so underwhelming, in a environment of big and bigger. Maybe change it for a Kodama's reach.
Rampant Growth does seem underwhelming. In terms of pure power, it's lacking. There are a lot of different options for mana search/ramp, but I think it's the right choice. Or, if I was going to cut it, I think I would use the slot for something else, rather then mana ramp. The key thing with Rampant Growth, is it lets me get Savra out a turn earlier. That's big. Dropping Savra on turn 3, and then being able to use turn 4 for some sort of self-sacrificing creatures is huge. Late game, Rampant is a poor card, but honestly, any ramping sorcery would be poor late game. I have my card advantage engines of Tusker and Yavimaya Elder for recusive advantage in the longer game. But that initial first couple of turns burst, letting me get Savra killing things a turn faster is a huge mark in favor of Rampant Growth.
I won't disagree with you on the Archdemon. In your own words, "its not bad". But I want better then simply, "not bad". I have Doomgape and Xathrid Demon as my giant beaters with sacrificing as drawbacks. Doomy is huge and gains me life, and did I mention he is huge? Xathrid is bigger, cheaper and drains all my opponents (yes, he drains multiple opponents). I like both of them better then the Unx, and can't see myself running all 3. Which do you think he should replace?
One thing I learned when I first started putting this deck together was very simply "Synnergy isn't enough". It's not enough that the cards work together, although you always want them to. They have to be good on their own. The other thing I found was I have to stop thinking about cards in their best case scenario. You only draw so many cards, and they have to be worthwhile even when you don't have the best case scenario for them.
Marrow Chomper was actually in my decklist when I first started testing this deck out. Every time I drew it, I was pissed. It was just bad. I have better ways to gain life, better sacrifice engines, and better creatures that swing through combat. It made me unhappy.
Likewise, abyssal gatekeeper just was undewhelming too. Best case it lets me wreak havoc, but I found it failing to perform too often. It just sorta required a little too much setup to have its desired effect.
Other cards seem like good ideas but just didn't do much for me. Golgari germination creates green tokens, which I found to be a colossal waste (My one source of green tokens uses its tokens as creature kill without Savra). Breeding Pit was just so costly (2 mana every single turn). And on top of that, I need something else for those tokens to matter. Creating a token every turn is nice, but often I'd have that and no good use for the tokens. I cut alot of cards becuase they had synnergy, but didnt do enough on their own. Now most of the cards do stuff on their own. I'm perfectly happy to Sac the Sadistic Hypnotist to itself, rather then rely on outside fodder. Likewise, life chisel gains me life, if I have creatures, but Gutless ghoul does the same without worrying about IF. Phyrexian Vault was tested and found so underwhelming, I havent even considered the new zendikar version thats better.
That leaves Damnation, and the Innocent/Barter Blood Cards.
Damnation was originally left out for budget reasons. I didnt have one, didnt feel like spending 15+ on it (or whatever the price) and felt I could get by without it. It's not a bad card to have. I could see trying to squeeze it and Barter in Blood in. I really don't worry about my opponents having a slight creature advantage, but occasionally due to something like mass reanimation, I can see my defenses getting overrun. I put in the 3 sweepers I have, and I like them becuase they deal with noncreature problems in addition to creatures, but I dunno. Deed, O-stone and the boiler may be enough.
Bitterblossom just seems annoying more then anything else. I'm already spending alot of my own life, it just makes me spend more. Plus, I need something else to Sac the tokens to.
Rendclaw Trow is just a weak card. Being able to sac something twice is not enough reason for inclusion.
I did make a change, removing Undead Gladiator and replacing it with Dimir House Guard. The Gladiator was just underwhelming. I could cycle it, but i rarely used it to dig, and when I did, it didn't work well. The House guard can fill a similar function, and so many of the ridiculously good cards in this deck cost 4 mana. On top of that, its another Sac outlet. Too good to pass up.
You already have talked about a lot of the cards I run, but I dont know if you have thought about Vulturous Zombie. He is evil. He get a +1/+1 for every card that goes in an opponents graveyard and the cards can go there from anywhere. I killed some one one game with him cause he was a 61/61 flier.
He is just another big threat for your deck and he works good in Savra.
I run Savra too, and I have to say the best card in my deck is dawn of the dead, it effectively will gain you 9 life a turn if you pull back doomgape, and other stuff too. 1 life for a creature a turn that won't get removed eot because you sacrifice it is ridiculous.
combo doesn't work chief- doomgape doesn't trigger if it wasn't in play at the start of the upkeep. However, if Doomgape was already in play, then you can feed it the creature Dawn got; meaning you can feed it the same creature every turn.
I dont really like your discard suite. It just doesn't seem effective enough in a multiplayer game. I suggest Myojin of Night's Reach. You get to strip everyone's hand with one card. And as you said, it's probably easier to get this creature in your hand than any one of the discard spells.
Have you looked into Grim Harvest? It seems very strong. Especially with Shiekmaw. . .
I assume your lack of Bloodghast in your (updated) list is an oversight? Bloodghast is nearly as good for this deck as Nether Traitor.
You know. . . Hmm. . .Maybe Contamination could be good for you? You are most likely to gain a majority of board hate when you start making all of you opponents sac their creatures. So contamination just might make it so that your opponents may be hard pressed to try to mount any defense/resistance to your plans. . . You would have to change your mana accelerants to artifatcs to ensure you still had access to green mana, but that's not difficult to do. And of course you do have a lot of recursion creatures, so a sacrifice every turn shouldn't be too difficult to satisfy.
I assume your lack of Bloodghast in your (updated) list is an oversight? Bloodghast is nearly as good for this deck as Nether Traitor.
You know. . . Hmm. . .Maybe Contamination could be good for you? You are most likely to gain a majority of board hate when you start making all of you opponents sac their creatures. So contamination just might make it so that your opponents may be hard pressed to try to mount any defense/resistance to your plans. . . You would have to change your mana accelerants to artifatcs to ensure you still had access to green mana, but that's not difficult to do. And of course you do have a lot of recursion creatures, so a sacrifice every turn shouldn't be too difficult to satisfy.
I really like the idea of Contamination. I have no problem putting it in the deck. I don't think I need to change the deck much for it, as I can function relatively well underneath it. Besides, it's a card thats sort of icing, lettting me carry a lead to the finish line.
Regarding my discard suite, it's a mixed bag really. The myojin is simply way too expensive. By the time that comes done, I should have probably either won or lost already. Also, it has minimal to no synnergy with the deck. I already have the 2 nuclear options of Mindslicer (all hands gone) or Sadistic Hypnotist and Nath (everyones hands gone but mine, plus I get more tokens and life if Savra's on the board). The other discard creatures may be a bit underwhelming in the abstract, but they are great options for getting Savra to wipe the board very cheaply, plus they put pressure on hands. They are probably more 1 vs 1 focused cards, but with the amount of recursion, they work.
Bloodghast is definitly not an oversight. Both it, and Nether Traitor have deliberately left out of the deck. The fundamental reason is that they don't do anything. Sure, they keep bouncing back from the graveyard, but I don't have alot of trouble recurring my creatures. Sure, I can sac them over and over, but I have other things that I sac over and over. Besides, they don't put much pressure on my opponents, nor are they useful for defense.
As for Vulturous Zombie, I had thought about him. He was originally left off my list becuase the local card store was sold out. But after some careful consideration, I decided that I would probably be dissapointed with him. For him to be really good, he has to be in play while Savra is doing her thing. I don't want to cast my beater first. I want to destroy my opponents ability to fight then drop my beater and crush him. So I decided to try Lord of Extinction instead, replacing Spiritmonger in the deck. I'll let you know how that goes.
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Creatures (38)
Savra's Favorites
1 Shambling Shell
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
1 Mindwhip Sliver
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Mindwarper
1 Mournwhelk
1 Dauthi Mindripper
1 Thrull Surgeon
1 Nezumi Bone-Reader
1 Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Civic Wayfinder
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Gutless Ghoul
1 Acidic Slime
1 Phyrexian Plaguelord
1 Golgari Rotwurm
1 Withered Wretch
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Cabal Archon
1 Undead Gladiator
1 Eternal Witness
1 Hell's Caretaker
1 Doomed Necromancer
1 Apprentice Necromancer
1 Genesis
1 Golgari Guildmage
1 Magus of the Mirror
1 Visara the Dreadful
1 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
1 Forgotten Ancient
1 Creakwood Liege
1 Cemetary Reaper
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Xathrid Demon
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
Tutor/Manipulation (6)
1 Scroll Rack
1 Buried Alive
1 Pattern of Rebirth
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Demonic Tutor
More Recursion (5)
1 Oath of Ghouls
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Regrowth
1 Recollect
1 Dread Return
Board Control (3)
1 Pernicious deed
1 Plague Boiler
1 Oblivion Stone
Additional Goodies (8)
1 Infernal Tribute
1 Phyrexian Processor
1 Skullclamp
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Minion Reflector
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Liliana Vess
1 Bayou
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Tainted Wood
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 High Market
1 Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Treetop Village
1 Mosswart Bridge
14 Swamp
11 Forest
So I've put together a fun little Savra deck and have been in the process of tweaking it. What you see is my current list. I'll walk you through it a little bit.
Savra's abalities let you control creatures if you build around it, so thats what I did. The majority of time, if I can keep Savra in play, I can keep the board clear of threats that are creatures. That worked great, but I found 2 problems with my initial versions of my deck. The first was that I wasn't disruptive enough to whatever my opponents were doing that wasn't creature based. I rectified that primarily with the discard. If I can keep my drill down my opponents to an empty hand and force them into playing from their topdeck, I'm in good shape. The bonus is that the majority of my discard effects work with Savra (the mindwarper works with enough other things to be a neat other option). The other problem I had was I'd take control and then the game would still drag on forever, I upped my threat count in the hopes of speeding things up.
Since its a green/black deck that runs alot of creatures and sends them to the grave often, the Survival Toolbox and Oversold/Oath of Ghouls engines just screamed for inclusion. From there it was finding neat interactions with Savra, building card advantage and filling out the deck. Some things were brutal - evoke is a sacrifice effect so Mournwhelk is nasty; Somethings were alot weaker in practice- Green Creatures and Tokens are surprisingly worthless, I expected great things from Deranged Hermit and was dissapointed. Other things just weren't powerful/versatile enough (see Nantuko Husk and analogues).
The other thing I've stressed with this deck is finding ways for cards to be useful in multiple ways. The Cemetary Reaper not only generates Black Creature tokens to sacrifice, but it also fights other recursion strategies and maintains Oath superiority. Phyrexian Processor can generate black tokens to Sac, or just plain end the game with a stream of 10/10s. This deck loves all 3 of Liliana's abilities.
Any thoughts on the things I can do to improve this?
And where is Grave Pact?
Currently running:
BRG Xira Arien BRG
UR Melek, Izzet Paragon UR
WUG Jenara, Asura of War WUG
WRG Mayael the Anima WRG
WB Triad of Fates WB
BG Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots BR
WR Aurelia the Warleader WR
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores WBG
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
1. By itself, it does nothing. That's a huge minus right there. All my other discard effects knock cards out, or beat, or something. Mind Slash lets me do something with my other cards, but does nothing by itself.
2. It's a noncreature permananent that has to sit in play. With how many sweepers I see in this format, cards have to be pretty powerful to rely on them sitting out there unmolested. If Oversold Cemetary is allowed to sit in play for a few turns, it generates me a huge advantage, and one I can't easily get elsewhere. Does mind Slash give me the same benefit? It doesn't seem like it.
3. It's not a creature. With the tools available in this deck currently, it's much easier to get a creature out of my deck then a noncreature. It's also much easier to get multiple uses out of a creature in case of targetted removal than the limited recursion that I have for noncreatures.
It's not a terrible idea, certainly allowing me to pick and choose as to what I can pull out of thier hands is worth something. But that's why I hadn't initially included Mind Slash.
I really hate discussion Grave Pact, but I suppose it's unavoidable.
There are a few key points.
If I have Savra, I don't need Grave Pact. I really don't. If Savra is active, it's ridiculously hard for my opponents to keep creatures on the board. I have several card advantage engines and they are pretty versatile. Hell, the 2 multicolored, dredging, self sacrificing creatures can each keep Savra in business by their lonesome. Since Savra is my general, accessing her is easy and pretty much always an option. The primary 2 ways in getting ahead of my Savra based board control are mass reanimation (withered wretch and cemetary reaper are there to combat) or token generation. I'd rather attack the token generation directly (Viridian Zealot, Acidic Slime or targetted removal like Visara, Master of the Wild Hunt, Plaguelord) then try and simple double my sac benefits and brute force it. Besides, If I'm falling so behind that Savra cannot keep up, I'd benefit more from a sweeper effect (Deed, Boiler, Stone) than the pact.
But that's in situations where I do have Savra active. Doesn't Grave Pact shore up weaknesses when Savra isn't active? Not Really.
I'd have to draw the pact, which means tutor for it. Since the best thing an opponent can do to take Savra away from me is hide her in my deck, and it's easier for this deck to tutor out Savra than gravepact, it's not a better option there. I have better ways to get out of Meddling Mage locks or other silliness than hoping to draw a same casting cost analygous card.
The only situation I can think of where I would be happy to have Grave Pact instead of Savra is when I lack the life to pay Savra's trigger. In those cases however, I'd be better off getting life gain (Gutless Ghoul, my green creatures,token generators or mass sac effects) than the Pact.
It's like if you have a coat with a magic pocket. Everytime you reach into that pocket, you pull out a handful of money. Everytime, no matter what, it's basically a bottomless inexhaustable supply of money. That's what the Savra is. But to add an extra pocket on the same coat that does the same thing (Grave Pact) serves little to no benefit.
Or am I missing a major situation where I'd be locked out of Savra and the deck would be better off trying to force through the Grave Pact rather than combat the lock in the first place?
As for life, it's not a concern. I'm almost always comfortable making a processor for 10+ life, rarely worry about my life total dipping too low, and frankly, have a habit of using it as a weapon with Magus of the Mirror.
R Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
BG Varolz, the scar-striped
First, the deck is too slow and too mana intensive. I never want to miss a land drop with this thing. While there some nice mana development tools, there needs to be more. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt aren't considerations, becuase I don't feel like adding something to this deck that is quasi-banned. So I cut a few of the slower and clunkier cards for more mana tools.
-1 Infernal Tribute
-1 Phyrexian Processor
-1 Minion Reflector
+1 Rampant Growth
+1 Borderland Ranger
+1 Oracle of Mul Daya
Rampant Growth is a whole turn of acceleration, its got no recursion value, but a turn matters. The ranger is civic wayfarer #2 and The Oracle is just beyond powerful. While the Oracle doesn't have synnergy with the general, theres enough toys in here that cuase shuffling of the deck, as well as what Scroll Rack can accomplish with him in play. He seriously gives a huge advantage.
As for what was cut, those are all things that don't have any effect early game, and were either clunky/ineffective, or too risky.
-1 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
+1 Gleancrawler
Taking out a beater with no synnergy with the deck and replacing it with a beater that uses synnergy to generate massive card advantage, for the same mana cost. Yes Please.
-1 Mindwarper
+1 Mindslicer
Still attacking the hand, but one of these creatures is slow and deliberate. The other is a tactical nuke. Other creatures can fill the role of the warper, but the slicer can get it done fast when collarateral damage isnt a concern.
-1 Golgari Rotwurm
+1 Augur of skulls
The rotwurm is dissapointing, and frankly Cabal Archon does it's job better. Augur speeds the deck up and is another creature that can be in play before Savra.
-1 Magus of the Mirror
+1 Doomgape
Magus is clunky, unweildly, and doesn't necessarily do what you want it to. Doomgape is huge and has some nice synnergy with everything.
-1 Forgotten Ancient
+1 Shriekmaw
I do love the Ancient, but I was playing it becuase I liked it more then becuase it was good. Especially with Mindwarper gone, it can get cut. Shriekmaw gives me a quick answer to most of the power generals (not Zur, but Arcum and Roffelos) and has synnergy.
-1 Terramorphic Expanse
+1 Verdant Catacombs
Zendikar upgrade that speaks for itself. Not playing other workable fetches becuase life loss matters enough with this deck to make them not worth it, likewise the CIPT of the expanse makes it an easy cut.
That leaves my hard choice, which is my graveyard manipulation tools. Currently, I'm running the following two:
Withered Wretch
Cemetary Reaper
Wretch has no synnergy, but is very powerful and quick. the Reaper is much slower, but creates black creature tokens (always nice) and if given time is very threatening. Other cards that I've considered for these slots are:
Crypt Creeper
Martyr of Bones
Offalsnout
All have more synnergy, but are at a much lower powerlevel. I can't really decide.
So here's what I have currently, any suggestions?
Creatures (40)
Savra's Favorites
1 Shambling Shell
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
1 Mindwhip Sliver
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Augur of skulls
1 Mournwhelk
1 Dauthi Mindripper
1 Thrull Surgeon
1 Nezumi Bone-Reader
1 Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
1 Mindslicer
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Civic Wayfinder
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Borderland Ranger
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Gutless Ghoul
1 Acidic Slime
1 Phyrexian Plaguelord
1 Shriekmaw
1 Withered Wretch
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Cabal Archon
1 Eternal Witness
1 Hell's Caretaker
1 Doomed Necromancer
1 Apprentice Necromancer
1 Genesis
1 Golgari Guildmage
1 Spiritmonger
1 Gleancrawler
1 Visara the Dreadful
1 Doomgape
1 Creakwood Liege
1 Cemetary Reaper
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Xathrid Demon
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
Tutor/Manipulation (7)
1 Scroll Rack
1 Buried Alive
1 Pattern of Rebirth
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Rampant Growth
More Recursion (5)
1 Oath of Ghouls
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Regrowth
1 Recollect
1 Dread Return
1 Pernicious deed
1 Plague Boiler
1 Oblivion Stone
Additional Goodies (5)
1 Skullclamp
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Liliana Vess
Lands (39)
1 Bayou
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Tainted Wood
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 High Market
1 Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Treetop Village
1 Mosswart Bridge
14 Swamp
11 Forest
I think you should put in Greater Good. Someone is going to be wrathing the board with all the good stuff you're playing, and card advantage rules!
Hinder, Bant Charm, and Hallowed Burial usually mess up my plans whenever I'm playing a deck that wants it's general in play.
Grave Pact should be an auto include; it compliments your general very well and with Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth the BBB casting cost isn't that bad.
Endrekh Sahr, not so much. He's does nothing for me for the first turn, and then once he starts spitting out tokens, I still need a sac outlet. I think everytime I see him, I'd have rather drawn the Creakwood Leige, who's tokens are multicolored and makes all my other creatures more threatening.
Archdemon of Unx seems like a bad version of Doomgape for this deck.
Tortured Existence seems rather low on the powerlevel scale. I have many better recursive options. I just can't see wanting it, when I would have better options to return creatures to my hand, and have plenty of options to return creatures to play.
Greater Good doesn't seem that great to me. Most of the creatures I'd be sacrificing are 3 power or less (ussually less). Even with being able to use cards out of my graveyard, its less than ideal.
Regarding, Grave Pact - Again, in situations where my general gets sent to the bottom of my library, its easier to tutor for the general then it is to tutor for Pact. I'm not worried about Savra getting shuffled into my library.
And if I was, grave pact is a pretty poor answer to those situations, becuase I'd have to draw it.
Allow me to give my side for the archdemon of unx, it's not bad 6/6 flying trample for 7, and you sac a creature to him on your upkeep, and he gives you back a 2/2 zombie that you can block or sac to something else for. He can turn janky green tokens into useful black tokens, or even those 0/1 thrulls into 2/2 zombies.
Rampant growth seems so underwhelming, in a environment of big and bigger. Maybe change it for a Kodama's reach.
I won't disagree with you on the Archdemon. In your own words, "its not bad". But I want better then simply, "not bad". I have Doomgape and Xathrid Demon as my giant beaters with sacrificing as drawbacks. Doomy is huge and gains me life, and did I mention he is huge? Xathrid is bigger, cheaper and drains all my opponents (yes, he drains multiple opponents). I like both of them better then the Unx, and can't see myself running all 3. Which do you think he should replace?
One thing I learned when I first started putting this deck together was very simply "Synnergy isn't enough". It's not enough that the cards work together, although you always want them to. They have to be good on their own. The other thing I found was I have to stop thinking about cards in their best case scenario. You only draw so many cards, and they have to be worthwhile even when you don't have the best case scenario for them.
Marrow Chomper was actually in my decklist when I first started testing this deck out. Every time I drew it, I was pissed. It was just bad. I have better ways to gain life, better sacrifice engines, and better creatures that swing through combat. It made me unhappy.
Likewise, abyssal gatekeeper just was undewhelming too. Best case it lets me wreak havoc, but I found it failing to perform too often. It just sorta required a little too much setup to have its desired effect.
Other cards seem like good ideas but just didn't do much for me. Golgari germination creates green tokens, which I found to be a colossal waste (My one source of green tokens uses its tokens as creature kill without Savra). Breeding Pit was just so costly (2 mana every single turn). And on top of that, I need something else for those tokens to matter. Creating a token every turn is nice, but often I'd have that and no good use for the tokens. I cut alot of cards becuase they had synnergy, but didnt do enough on their own. Now most of the cards do stuff on their own. I'm perfectly happy to Sac the Sadistic Hypnotist to itself, rather then rely on outside fodder. Likewise, life chisel gains me life, if I have creatures, but Gutless ghoul does the same without worrying about IF. Phyrexian Vault was tested and found so underwhelming, I havent even considered the new zendikar version thats better.
That leaves Damnation, and the Innocent/Barter Blood Cards.
Damnation was originally left out for budget reasons. I didnt have one, didnt feel like spending 15+ on it (or whatever the price) and felt I could get by without it. It's not a bad card to have. I could see trying to squeeze it and Barter in Blood in. I really don't worry about my opponents having a slight creature advantage, but occasionally due to something like mass reanimation, I can see my defenses getting overrun. I put in the 3 sweepers I have, and I like them becuase they deal with noncreature problems in addition to creatures, but I dunno. Deed, O-stone and the boiler may be enough.
Junk Tokens WBG
Rendclaw Trow is just a weak card. Being able to sac something twice is not enough reason for inclusion.
I did make a change, removing Undead Gladiator and replacing it with Dimir House Guard. The Gladiator was just underwhelming. I could cycle it, but i rarely used it to dig, and when I did, it didn't work well. The House guard can fill a similar function, and so many of the ridiculously good cards in this deck cost 4 mana. On top of that, its another Sac outlet. Too good to pass up.
He is just another big threat for your deck and he works good in Savra.
RWFurious AngelsRW
1RUJhoira of the Ghitu1RU
2BG Savra, Queen of the Golgari 2BG
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[url]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5301342#post5301342"]What kind of Magic Player are you?
Probably the most brokenly created commander deck ever:http://deckstats.net/decks/811/1859-ubr-teps-desire-commander
combo doesn't work chief- doomgape doesn't trigger if it wasn't in play at the start of the upkeep. However, if Doomgape was already in play, then you can feed it the creature Dawn got; meaning you can feed it the same creature every turn.
Have you looked into Grim Harvest? It seems very strong. Especially with Shiekmaw. . .
I assume your lack of Bloodghast in your (updated) list is an oversight? Bloodghast is nearly as good for this deck as Nether Traitor.
You know. . . Hmm. . .Maybe Contamination could be good for you? You are most likely to gain a majority of board hate when you start making all of you opponents sac their creatures. So contamination just might make it so that your opponents may be hard pressed to try to mount any defense/resistance to your plans. . . You would have to change your mana accelerants to artifatcs to ensure you still had access to green mana, but that's not difficult to do. And of course you do have a lot of recursion creatures, so a sacrifice every turn shouldn't be too difficult to satisfy.
I have a Savra deck and want to second the call for Contamination. Once you have any repeatable source of tokens in play (Cemetary Reaper, Creakwood Liege, Necrogenesis, Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII, Mycoloth, Skeletal Vampire, Sproutswarm with a green creature out for the convoke, etc.), Contamination locks out your opponents from producing the colors they need. In a lot of cases, that will be game over right there. It's an awesome card.
As for Bloodghast, I actually find him significantly inferior to Nether Traitor and don't run him in my deck.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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Regarding my discard suite, it's a mixed bag really. The myojin is simply way too expensive. By the time that comes done, I should have probably either won or lost already. Also, it has minimal to no synnergy with the deck. I already have the 2 nuclear options of Mindslicer (all hands gone) or Sadistic Hypnotist and Nath (everyones hands gone but mine, plus I get more tokens and life if Savra's on the board). The other discard creatures may be a bit underwhelming in the abstract, but they are great options for getting Savra to wipe the board very cheaply, plus they put pressure on hands. They are probably more 1 vs 1 focused cards, but with the amount of recursion, they work.
Bloodghast is definitly not an oversight. Both it, and Nether Traitor have deliberately left out of the deck. The fundamental reason is that they don't do anything. Sure, they keep bouncing back from the graveyard, but I don't have alot of trouble recurring my creatures. Sure, I can sac them over and over, but I have other things that I sac over and over. Besides, they don't put much pressure on my opponents, nor are they useful for defense.
As for Vulturous Zombie, I had thought about him. He was originally left off my list becuase the local card store was sold out. But after some careful consideration, I decided that I would probably be dissapointed with him. For him to be really good, he has to be in play while Savra is doing her thing. I don't want to cast my beater first. I want to destroy my opponents ability to fight then drop my beater and crush him. So I decided to try Lord of Extinction instead, replacing Spiritmonger in the deck. I'll let you know how that goes.