Hello, I´m sure that this combo is familiar to all of you. You must start the game with Layline of the Void and accelerate your game until you are able to activate the Helm of Obedience for an instant mill. This should be relatively easy to achieve on turn two or three.
I´m having some troubles to make the combo base more consistent. I´m trying to keep it monoblack because splashing blue (which is an obvious improve in order to get advantage of counters and control) will imply to buy the expensive original duals that by the moment I am not able to afford.
I think that the swamps should be replaced but I am not sure of what lands to play. I'm searching for fetchlands (Polluted Delta) and also for an Imperial Seal.
what about cabal ritual? if you run enough rits and sacrifical mana sources, you should be able to get threshhold easily enough. also, i don't think chrome mox is a very good idea here. you'd be better off with simian spirit guide or somesuch. it's a common and only one mana if you need it as such, which is about all you'll need the mox for, too.
wow, this deck seems surprisingly viable. It runs into null rod trouble, but its a stable combo deck, good luck with it. Maybe run a single tendrils for a back up plan.
Yeah, you need to deal with the fact that your deck straight-up loses if Null Rod is resolved before you activate the Helm... but otherwise this looks like a very good start.
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Yeah this combo is used in some competitive Vintage decks' sideboards. The big problem with it I think is that Null Rod is good right now vs Tezz so it sees plenty of play. This combo also falls victim to Null Rod, is slower to assemble, and unlike Tezz it has no answer to a Null Rod other than discard (no bounce, no counters).
There was a shop deck my friend created that ran this combo and won the bluebell event.
here is his list
1 Black Lotus
3 Chalice Of The Void
3 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Helm Of Obedience
1 Mana Crypt
2 Mindlock Orb
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere Of Resistance
3 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
2 Triskelion
4 Leyline Of The Void
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
Lands
2 Bazaar Of Baghdad
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
4 Underground River
4 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
Sideboard:
1 Chalice Of The Void
2 Jester's Cap
3 Pithing Needle
2 Powder Keg
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
1 Duplicant
2 In The Eye Of Chaos
Please format your posts correctly using card and deck tags.
Back to the original post - suggestion - drop Diabolic Tutor for Demonic Tutor, it's reasonably affordable and soooo much better.
I guess my big issues with is it that it is slower then most powered decks out there so it loses to them and it will have trouble with budget decks as they often focus around cards like Null Rod, counters and disruption like Gaddock Teeg/Qasali Pridemage.
Well, if you're going to add tarmogoyf, why wouldn't you add bob and if you already have tarmogoyf and tarmogoyf, null rod seems like the next logical card to add... so basicly what I am saying is that if you're going to add goyf you're better of scrapping the deck and playing weenies with rods.
Another thing you should add blue, underground seas, and better draw spells. Running blue would give you access to
As for your terrible reason of adding blue, like mana fixers do not exist in the forms of lotus petal, watery grave (i think they are like 6 dollars now...), undergound river, terrible t2 filters, m10 lands, basic islands (especially if your looking for fetches...)
But as it stands right now, your deck has too many holes and if you're looking for cheap combo to play, you might as well play belcher or elves, both decks which are budget decks. If you go to starcitygames and look up the articles of Matt Elias or Steven Menedian, he will give you some good examples of cheap budget combo decks.
EDIT:Look at the formating YAY! YAY!, its like whackin it with kitten blood! YAY!
After reading through this whole thread I was wondering what you're trying to build? I've seen this combo only once, and it was 1x Helm, 4x Leyline of the Void in a guys sideboard. This was brought in to out right beat Ichorid, and since then I haven't seen anyone trying to build aroung this unstable {kinda slow} combo.
Food for thought,... wouldn't the PCR {painter's grindstone} builds provide a smoother archtype for milling?
After reading through this whole thread I was wondering what you're trying to build? I've seen this combo only once, and it was 1x Helm, 4x Leyline of the Void in a guys sideboard. This was brought in to out right beat Ichorid, and since then I haven't seen anyone trying to build aroung this unstable {kinda slow} combo.
Food for thought,... wouldn't the PCR {painter's grindstone} builds provide a smoother archtype for milling?
S.M.
I think the combo's pretty cool, and it's really not that slow, or doesn't have to be at least. You get to play the Leyline for free and then it just requires you to play a 4-mana card.
Perhaps adding in white and 4x Enlightened Tutor would help here? Then it's pretty easy to mulligan into a hand with a Leyline and a Helm/Enl Tutor/Black Tutor. Seems like it might be pretty consistent. Anyone think that might be a good idea?
what about cabal ritual? if you run enough rits and sacrifical mana sources, you should be able to get threshhold easily enough. also, i don't think chrome mox is a very good idea here. you'd be better off with simian spirit guide or somesuch. it's a common and only one mana if you need it as such, which is about all you'll need the mox for, too.
Cabal Rituals are nice but I don´t think that one in the initial hand is fast enought.
About the Chrome Mox, I think that they are needed because I still need black mana to play dark ritual in turn one. If I add the two mana lands (City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb) it will be harder to cast an important number of spells even if running the green or red spirit guide.
Yeah, you need to deal with the fact that your deck straight-up loses if Null Rod is resolved before you activate the Helm... but otherwise this looks like a very good start.
Thanks for the advice. What should I run in the sideboard to deal with things like Null Rod? Maybie more Thoughtsieze, something like Pithing Needle, artifact distruption?
Thanks to all of you for your colaboration.
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Legacy:
Dark Zoo
Dredge
Mono Blue Control
Reanimator
Eva Green
I would like to say right off Enlightened Tutor hasn't helped a vintage deck before this, and probably wouldn't help this deck out now. White isn't the choice for this kind of deck.
Me and buddy just got through testing something that should give you a fighting chance, and it was kinda fun to test.......but not as effective ofcourse missing the power. You should really try to get those proxy's in this deck. Most tourney's allow like 100 now......ok that was a bit much, but most events allow 10, and sometimes up to 25 more for just a buck each.
To note the Tendrils just fit in nicely after a few rounds, but it can be replaced with a Cabal Ritual..... it's a nice alt kill.
I´m having some troubles to make the combo base more consistent. I´m trying to keep it monoblack because splashing blue (which is an obvious improve in order to get advantage of counters and control) will imply to buy the expensive original duals that by the moment I am not able to afford.
Here is the decklist:
Combo:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Helm of Obedience
4 Serum Powder
Tutor:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
Draw Engine:
1 Yawgmoth Bargain
1 Necropotence
4 Infernal Contract
4 Street Wraith
Mana Accel:
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Lion´s Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Chrome Mox
Defense:
4 Duress
2 Thoughtsieze
Classic Card:
1 Yawgmoth´s Will
Lands:
16 Swamps
I think that the swamps should be replaced but I am not sure of what lands to play. I'm searching for fetchlands (Polluted Delta) and also for an Imperial Seal.
Suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks.
Dark Zoo
Dredge
Mono Blue Control
Reanimator
Eva Green
1 Leyline of the Void
1 City of Traitors
1 Lotus Petal or mox jet
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic tutor
Obviously black for petal and proceed from that point.
Currently Playing:
Retired
--welt
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
EDIT: Dammit Binary ninja'd me
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Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
here is his list
1 Black Lotus
3 Chalice Of The Void
3 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Helm Of Obedience
1 Mana Crypt
2 Mindlock Orb
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere Of Resistance
3 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
2 Triskelion
4 Leyline Of The Void
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
Lands
2 Bazaar Of Baghdad
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
4 Underground River
4 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
Sideboard:
1 Chalice Of The Void
2 Jester's Cap
3 Pithing Needle
2 Powder Keg
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
1 Duplicant
2 In The Eye Of Chaos
Please format your posts correctly using card and deck tags.
currently playing:
LEGACY
loam/depthsBG
Sneak showUR
LED DredgeUBR
ReanimatorUB
landsBURG
EDH
DoranWBG
JhoiraUR
I guess my big issues with is it that it is slower then most powered decks out there so it loses to them and it will have trouble with budget decks as they often focus around cards like Null Rod, counters and disruption like Gaddock Teeg/Qasali Pridemage.
so you kill the rod or the person holding it?
Thanks Darth Monkey
Well, if you're going to add tarmogoyf, why wouldn't you add bob and if you already have tarmogoyf and tarmogoyf, null rod seems like the next logical card to add... so basicly what I am saying is that if you're going to add goyf you're better of scrapping the deck and playing weenies with rods.
Another thing you should add blue, underground seas, and better draw spells. Running blue would give you access to
1x Tinker
1x Thirst for knowlege
1x ponder
1x mystical tutor
As for your terrible reason of adding blue, like mana fixers do not exist in the forms of lotus petal, watery grave (i think they are like 6 dollars now...), undergound river, terrible t2 filters, m10 lands, basic islands (especially if your looking for fetches...)
But as it stands right now, your deck has too many holes and if you're looking for cheap combo to play, you might as well play belcher or elves, both decks which are budget decks. If you go to starcitygames and look up the articles of Matt Elias or Steven Menedian, he will give you some good examples of cheap budget combo decks.
EDIT:Look at the formating YAY! YAY!, its like whackin it with kitten blood! YAY!
Food for thought,... wouldn't the PCR {painter's grindstone} builds provide a smoother archtype for milling?
S.M.
I think the combo's pretty cool, and it's really not that slow, or doesn't have to be at least. You get to play the Leyline for free and then it just requires you to play a 4-mana card.
Perhaps adding in white and 4x Enlightened Tutor would help here? Then it's pretty easy to mulligan into a hand with a Leyline and a Helm/Enl Tutor/Black Tutor. Seems like it might be pretty consistent. Anyone think that might be a good idea?
¨
City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb definately are good land options. Thanks for the suggestion.
My bad. I was thinking on Demonic Tutor and typing Diabolic Tutor.
Cabal Rituals are nice but I don´t think that one in the initial hand is fast enought.
About the Chrome Mox, I think that they are needed because I still need black mana to play dark ritual in turn one. If I add the two mana lands (City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb) it will be harder to cast an important number of spells even if running the green or red spirit guide.
Thanks for the advice. What should I run in the sideboard to deal with things like Null Rod? Maybie more Thoughtsieze, something like Pithing Needle, artifact distruption?
Thanks to all of you for your colaboration.
Dark Zoo
Dredge
Mono Blue Control
Reanimator
Eva Green
Me and buddy just got through testing something that should give you a fighting chance, and it was kinda fun to test.......but not as effective ofcourse missing the power. You should really try to get those proxy's in this deck. Most tourney's allow like 100 now......ok that was a bit much, but most events allow 10, and sometimes up to 25 more for just a buck each.
To note the Tendrils just fit in nicely after a few rounds, but it can be replaced with a Cabal Ritual..... it's a nice alt kill.
Give this a Whirl
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
4x Chrome Mox
1x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Helm of Obedience
3x Dark Confidant
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Dark Ritual
4x Duress
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Tendril's of Agony
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
1x Mystical Tutor
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
1x Misdirection
1x Repeal
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Tinker
1x Merchant Scroll
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
1x Tolarian Academy
2x Island
1x Swamp
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Sower of Temptation
1x DarkBlast
2x Smother
2x Pithing Needle
3x Spell Snare
3x Extripate
1x Inkwell levaithan