Edit 9/27/09: I've decided that red adds little to my deck beyond Sunforger. Numot is nice, but I believe I have only connected with him once against my friend's Sedris deck. Even then, I didn't use his ability. Direct damage effects, characteristic of red, are not effective in a control deck playing in a format with life totals of 40 and reusable creatures. And as good as Sunforger is, it doesn't give me card advantage that is reliable enough to warrant keeping red. So, I'm going to give this deck one last edit as it looks now, and then I'm switching over to Rafiq of the Many. (Gasp!) I think green will complement blue and white better with mana acceleration, Life from the Loam, Spitting Image, recursion like Eternal Witness, and great finishers like Simic Sky Swallower. I'll make a thread for that deck when I complete it.
I've had this deck for maybe a month. It's built mainly for 1v1, but I want it to be good in free for alls, too. One of my friends has a Sedris deck, and the other has a Uril deck that is not really tuned (but still, it's Uril). So hopefully it will be a little meta-d against them.
Lands (39) Coastal Tower Battlefield Forge Azorius Chancery Calciform Pools Kher Keep Strip Mine Academy Ruins Ancient Den Tolaria West Izzet Boilerworks Skycloud Expanse Boreal Shelf Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion Terramorphic Expanse Boros Garrison Ancient Ampitheater 9 Island 8 Plains 6 Mountain
The deck tries to control the board, gaining card advantage from virtually all of its creatures and spells, until it can safely get out Numot, preferably with Lightning Greaves, and win through general damage.
Themes:
CIP effects: this one has diminished since I first made the deck, although virtually all of my creatures have CIP effects. I took out Mistmeadow Witch, Turn to Mist (which is surprisingly good), Crystal Shard, and Whitemane Lion because they didn't really do anything if I had no creatures in play. Stonecloaker is still in because it's great against Sedris and any other graveyard-based effects. I want to play Body Double in addition to Karmic Guide but am unsure of what to cut.
Sunforger: this card is nuts, and I want to fit more UW/UR counterspells. I have a Double Negative but am not sure of what to take out. Absorb would arguably be better, but I don't own it. I'm also thinking about including Urza's Rage, but again, I don't know what to take out. I also found that Fireball and Illuminate are bad, soo maybe Urza's Rage is bad, too?
Does it need more win conditions, or are Numot and a few other creatures enough? Are there any resilient win cons I should be playing (Tunnel Vision, maybe)?
Those are my main questions, but any comments and suggestions are appreciated.
Galepowder Mage I really like; my concern is that it doesn't do much when it comes into play and that it'll do very little if I have no other creatures. I'll have to get one and try it out.
I don't really like Reito Lantern as I have no way to search for Tunnel Vision or anything I put on the bottom of my library, for that matter. Brine Elemental is better but has the same problem.
Time Stretch is a good idea, but Time Warp doesn't do enough without more Howling Mines or planeswalkers. Kiki-Jiki should be good in my deck, but I have a lot of legendary creatures =(.
I can't say I have tried Lightning Angel, but I don't think she has a place in this deck. With life totals of 40, she becomes just a small-ish beater that dies to about everything. I may need beaters, but she doesn't end the game fast enough. I'm also not overly concerned about stopping aggro strategies with her since I have so many board sweepers already.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm having more trouble figuring out what to take out than I am finding cards to put in.
Reito isn't for you, really. It targets a card in a graveyard, thus target any nonland card in anther plays grave and then set Tunnel Vision to that card. Then it's just a matter of surviving a turn. On the other hand you could use it on your own graveyard targeting PtE and Search it out with a Sunforger.
. That's 17 of the 23 creature you have, that's a pretty good number. And Don't Forget Kiki owns all with Pestermite or Sky Hussar.(think about it), Or you could run Draining Whelk for nutty 1v1 shenigans.
As far as beaters go Akroma, Angel of Wrath, Akroma, Angel of Fury are always good choices. Other then that pick a dragon any dragon thrown it in and let it pound face, or there's U goodness if the form of Tidal Kraken and his Timespiral Buddy. If your getting your face pounded on the ground try Teferi's Moat or Magus of the Moat for that matter.
. That's 17 of the 23 creature you have, that's a pretty good number. And Don't Forget Kiki owns all with Pestermite or Sky Hussar.(think about it), Or you could run Draining Whelk for nutty 1v1 shenigans.
Hm, maybe you are right about Kiki-Jiki. I had Sky Hussar in my deck a while back, mainly for the card draw, but I forgot about the infinite combo. Draining Whelk is probably worth playing, too.
As far as beaters go Akroma, Angel of Wrath, Akroma, Angel of Fury are always good choices. Other then that pick a dragon any dragon thrown it in and let it pound face, or there's U goodness if the form of Tidal Kraken and his Timespiral Buddy. If your getting your face pounded on the ground try Teferi's Moat or Magus of the Moat for that matter.
See, the problem I'm having is that if I play one of those cards (excluding the red Akroma), my friend can just pay 2 mana for Essence Scatter, Remove Soul, etc. Then not only does he gain a massive mana advantage, I'm tapped out and he can do whatever he wants on his turn. Maybe Storm Herd is worth it though? Because then in case he doesn't answer it, he has 1-2 turns to live.
I like some of these... but I find the acceleration that the Bauble gives me is more useful than Armillary Sphere, which I did play at one point. The lower mana cost of Fact or Fiction is a bigger advantage than it seems. I think the same is true with Compulsive Research, not sure. What I like about cheaper card draw is that it gets me to my lands faster, whereas if I'm playing stuff like Tidings and Opportunity I should probably go with a higher land count. Maybe if I'm going to play Opportunity I should use Mind Spring instead?
Ethereal Usher and Drift of Phantasms fit my deck. Usher could be clutch if someone Condemns my Numot, and Drift of Phantasms searches up Sunforger, which is good. Plus they both work with Tunnel Vision, yay!
Well as far as Mind Spring goes i don't know your budget but if you have a little extra to spend I would go with Stroke of Genius, If your worried about counters that is
I agree that kiki-jiki and tunnel vision should definitely be in the deck.
Crystal shard also seems very powerful incremental advantage engine. It allows you to save your creatures from death, to recycle CIP effects, kills tokens, forces your opponent to leave mana open, and bounces their creatures. Basically any creature + crystal shard gives you a powerful engine to carry you into the later game. It's the exact kind of sunforgeresch card that you want to play.
Artifact acceleration is almost always a good thing to have: it allows you to get your spells online faster (important against Uril) and play more powerful spells/engines in the later game (important against Sedris). In EDH, mana is often the limiting factor, not cards. More mana means more powerful effects. Even if you get flooded, you can use your mana to play, activate and replay numot.
Crystal shard also seems very powerful incremental advantage engine. It allows you to save your creatures from death, to recycle CIP effects, kills tokens, forces your opponent to leave mana open, and bounces their creatures. Basically any creature + crystal shard gives you a powerful engine to carry you into the later game. It's the exact kind of sunforgeresch card that you want to play.
Hi, Dan.
I agree that it is powerful, yet in practice it never seems to work that way. Maybe I have just never drawn it with a Mulldrifter. Maybe it's that it does nothing for me on its own, or maybe I don't like paying four mana + the creature's mana cost for one additional CIP effect. In any case, I'd really like to fit it in; I just don't know what to take out. I removed it for the Austere Command.
Artifact acceleration is almost always a good thing to have: it allows you to get your spells online faster (important against Uril) and play more powerful spells/engines in the later game (important against Sedris). In EDH, mana is often the limiting factor, not cards. More mana means more powerful effects. Even if you get flooded, you can use your mana to play, activate and replay numot.
Some of those, like Bribery and Gilded Lotus, are just too good not to include, but again, I'm stumped on what to take out.
Edit:
Quote from lilianavess33 »
Well as far as Mind Spring goes i don't know your budget but if you have a little extra to spend I would go with Stroke of Genius, If your worried about counters that is
Stroke of Genius would surely be within my budget except that I own Mind Spring and don't own Stroke of Genius. Basically my budget is any card that I can reasonably get, plus I'm not going for shock and dual lands.
I used to run Numot a while back but my deck was based on his ability not RWU good stuff or whatever so I could give you suggestions if you want but your deck would be a lot different and was also designed for multiplayer.
Dan: 'cloaker will probably stay in as long as my friend is playing Sedris
hedge-mage can go
clone kills uril and copies cip effects therefore is good
wing shards kills uril
pte is nice to have for sunforger so it stays until I get stp
o-ring can go though I'd like to have some direct damage I can search off of Sunforger to kill planeswalkers, I dunno
Honden is absurd and must stay
Kite is good but may end up being too slow; it's gonna stay for now
Final Judgment kills Uril, and I really like mass removal
Jace is, now that I think about it, a worse source of continuous card advantage, even though it doesn't get attacked often when I play it, so it can go
Yagami: yeah, I don't have the cards to make it a multiplayer land destruction deck (if I'm reading your post right). Stuff like Armageddon is hard to make work here, since I usually don't have a board advantage. Maybe if I add a lot of artifact accel it could work. Then stuff like Wildfire would be good.
I've had this deck for maybe a month. It's built mainly for 1v1, but I want it to be good in free for alls, too. One of my friends has a Sedris deck, and the other has a Uril deck that is not really tuned (but still, it's Uril). So hopefully it will be a little meta-d against them.
Coastal Tower
Battlefield Forge
Azorius Chancery
Calciform Pools
Kher Keep
Strip Mine
Academy Ruins
Ancient Den
Tolaria West
Izzet Boilerworks
Skycloud Expanse
Boreal Shelf
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Terramorphic Expanse
Boros Garrison
Ancient Ampitheater
9 Island
8 Plains
6 Mountain
Themes:
CIP effects: this one has diminished since I first made the deck, although virtually all of my creatures have CIP effects. I took out Mistmeadow Witch, Turn to Mist (which is surprisingly good), Crystal Shard, and Whitemane Lion because they didn't really do anything if I had no creatures in play. Stonecloaker is still in because it's great against Sedris and any other graveyard-based effects. I want to play Body Double in addition to Karmic Guide but am unsure of what to cut.
Sunforger: this card is nuts, and I want to fit more UW/UR counterspells. I have a Double Negative but am not sure of what to take out. Absorb would arguably be better, but I don't own it. I'm also thinking about including Urza's Rage, but again, I don't know what to take out. I also found that Fireball and Illuminate are bad, soo maybe Urza's Rage is bad, too?
Does it need more win conditions, or are Numot and a few other creatures enough? Are there any resilient win cons I should be playing (Tunnel Vision, maybe)?
Those are my main questions, but any comments and suggestions are appreciated.
Cards I hope to include:
Body Double
Bribery
Gilded Lotus
Storm Herd
Sky Hussar
Draining Whelk
Drift of Phantasms
Ethereal Usher
Crystal Shard
Future Sight
Maybe:
Galepowder Mage
Time Stretch
Planar Portal
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
1. Galepowder Mage You Should Check This out, With all Those CITP Abilities he's Great.
2. I Personally am a Big Fan of Tunnel Vision, but if you are Going to Run it, I Would Consider Reito Lantern Also.
3. Since you Have a Vesuvan Shapeshifter in your Deck Already why not add a Brine Elemental, Just for the Occasional Lock?
4. If you are the Infinite Turn Taking Type, Add Anarchist, Kiki-Jiki The Mirror Breaker, and Anything that lets you Take an Extra Turn or Two (also goes well with the Izzet Chronarch)
Trade Thread
I don't really like Reito Lantern as I have no way to search for Tunnel Vision or anything I put on the bottom of my library, for that matter. Brine Elemental is better but has the same problem.
Time Stretch is a good idea, but Time Warp doesn't do enough without more Howling Mines or planeswalkers. Kiki-Jiki should be good in my deck, but I have a lot of legendary creatures =(.
I can't say I have tried Lightning Angel, but I don't think she has a place in this deck. With life totals of 40, she becomes just a small-ish beater that dies to about everything. I may need beaters, but she doesn't end the game fast enough. I'm also not overly concerned about stopping aggro strategies with her since I have so many board sweepers already.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm having more trouble figuring out what to take out than I am finding cards to put in.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
As far as Kiki and Time Warp go I was saying they're only really good if your going for a Infinite Turn Combo, see?
Also Kiki hits
- Stonecloaker, Court Hussar, Trinket Mage, Duergar Hedge-Mage, Solemn Simulacrum, Clone, Sower of Temptation
- Izzet Chronarch, Vesuvan Shapeshifter, Reveillark, Karmic Guide, Aeon Chronicler, Siege-Gang Commander, Mulldrifter, Duplicant, Eternal Dragon, Bogardan Hellkite
. That's 17 of the 23 creature you have, that's a pretty good number. And Don't Forget Kiki owns all with Pestermite or Sky Hussar.(think about it), Or you could run Draining Whelk for nutty 1v1 shenigans.As far as beaters go Akroma, Angel of Wrath, Akroma, Angel of Fury are always good choices. Other then that pick a dragon any dragon thrown it in and let it pound face, or there's U goodness if the form of Tidal Kraken and his Timespiral Buddy. If your getting your face pounded on the ground try Teferi's Moat or Magus of the Moat for that matter.
Here's some things to make it more EDH ish:
Compulsive Research ----> Tidings
Wayfarer's Bauble --------> Armillary Sphere
Fact or Fiction -----------> Opportunity
Annex -------------------> Anything at all
Counterspell -------------> Forbid
Exclude -----------------> Spell Burst
That's all I got right now.
Oh and as far as tutors go you have access to Muddle the Mixture, Drift of Phantasms, Ethereal Usher, Dizzy Spell, and Tolaria West
You got me wanting to make a W/U/R deck now, hmmmm..............................
Trade Thread
Right but that's pretty hard to set up with my deck.
Hm, maybe you are right about Kiki-Jiki. I had Sky Hussar in my deck a while back, mainly for the card draw, but I forgot about the infinite combo. Draining Whelk is probably worth playing, too.
See, the problem I'm having is that if I play one of those cards (excluding the red Akroma), my friend can just pay 2 mana for Essence Scatter, Remove Soul, etc. Then not only does he gain a massive mana advantage, I'm tapped out and he can do whatever he wants on his turn. Maybe Storm Herd is worth it though? Because then in case he doesn't answer it, he has 1-2 turns to live.
I like some of these... but I find the acceleration that the Bauble gives me is more useful than Armillary Sphere, which I did play at one point. The lower mana cost of Fact or Fiction is a bigger advantage than it seems. I think the same is true with Compulsive Research, not sure. What I like about cheaper card draw is that it gets me to my lands faster, whereas if I'm playing stuff like Tidings and Opportunity I should probably go with a higher land count. Maybe if I'm going to play Opportunity I should use Mind Spring instead?
Ethereal Usher and Drift of Phantasms fit my deck. Usher could be clutch if someone Condemns my Numot, and Drift of Phantasms searches up Sunforger, which is good. Plus they both work with Tunnel Vision, yay!
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
Trade Thread
Crystal shard also seems very powerful incremental advantage engine. It allows you to save your creatures from death, to recycle CIP effects, kills tokens, forces your opponent to leave mana open, and bounces their creatures. Basically any creature + crystal shard gives you a powerful engine to carry you into the later game. It's the exact kind of sunforgeresch card that you want to play.
Artifact acceleration is almost always a good thing to have: it allows you to get your spells online faster (important against Uril) and play more powerful spells/engines in the later game (important against Sedris). In EDH, mana is often the limiting factor, not cards. More mana means more powerful effects. Even if you get flooded, you can use your mana to play, activate and replay numot.
I would find room for artifact mana like (coldsteel heart, prismatic lens and others like fellwar stone possibly stuff like darksteel ingot and gilded lotus. I'd estimate that you want 10 mana accelerants minimum, 25 maximum. You can find the right number through experiment.
Other possibilities: enlightened tutor, bribery, mystical tutor, tunnel vision, time stretch, planar portal, sword of fire and ice
Hi, Dan.
I agree that it is powerful, yet in practice it never seems to work that way. Maybe I have just never drawn it with a Mulldrifter. Maybe it's that it does nothing for me on its own, or maybe I don't like paying four mana + the creature's mana cost for one additional CIP effect. In any case, I'd really like to fit it in; I just don't know what to take out. I removed it for the Austere Command.
Some of those, like Bribery and Gilded Lotus, are just too good not to include, but again, I'm stumped on what to take out.
Edit:
Stroke of Genius would surely be within my budget except that I own Mind Spring and don't own Stroke of Genius. Basically my budget is any card that I can reasonably get, plus I'm not going for shock and dual lands.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
Stonecloaker
Duergar Hedge-Mage
Clone
Wing Shards
Path to Exile
Oblivion Ring
Honden of Seeing Winds
Journeyer's Kite
Final Judgment
Jace Beleren
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
hedge-mage can go
clone kills uril and copies cip effects therefore is good
wing shards kills uril
pte is nice to have for sunforger so it stays until I get stp
o-ring can go though I'd like to have some direct damage I can search off of Sunforger to kill planeswalkers, I dunno
Honden is absurd and must stay
Kite is good but may end up being too slow; it's gonna stay for now
Final Judgment kills Uril, and I really like mass removal
Jace is, now that I think about it, a worse source of continuous card advantage, even though it doesn't get attacked often when I play it, so it can go
Yagami: yeah, I don't have the cards to make it a multiplayer land destruction deck (if I'm reading your post right). Stuff like Armageddon is hard to make work here, since I usually don't have a board advantage. Maybe if I add a lot of artifact accel it could work. Then stuff like Wildfire would be good.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH