:symb::symb::symb: Sorcery Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Search target player's library for up to three cards, exile them, then that player shuffles his or her library. If Sadistic Sacrament was kicked, instead search that player's library for up to fifteen cards, exile them, then that player shuffles his of her library.
I think the flavour text for this card should be: C-C-C-Combo Breaker!
How is this more of a combo-breaker than Denying Wind?
(And have you *ever* seen a list with that in it? Admittedly this is over twice as large for 1 more mana, but kicker costs are usually cheaper than non-kicker versions ... aren't they? Oh)
For one, its blue, they are the ones that already get counter spells to stop many combos. Secondly, that one is 9 total mana, the new one is only 3 (3 for 3, or 15 for 10), so you can get it off early, before some even get a chance to tutor.
For one, its blue, they are the ones that already get counter spells to stop many combos. Secondly, that one is 9 total mana, the new one is only 3 (3 for 3, or 15 for 10), so you can get it off early, before some even get a chance to tutor.
At the time the Wind was printed, that was an impressive effect. Rootwater Thief was the only card with a repeatable search and exile ability, and the Jester's cards were the only ones that let your exile stuff from library.
That was years ago, and the ability has been buffed considerably, and at some point became black.
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At the time the Wind was printed, that was an impressive effect. Rootwater Thief was the only card with a repeatable search and exile ability, and the Jester's cards were the only ones that let your exile stuff from library.
That was years ago, and the ability has been buffed considerably, and at some point became black.
I never said the other was bad, it's a nice one too, but if you need to get something done fast, the lower cost one works better I think.
I think combo decks will have to consider the this card. I could see this card having impact on some metagames by simply existing, especially in the color of tutor. Play it once or twice, and you may never have to play it again.
How is this more of a combo-breaker than Denying Wind?
(And have you *ever* seen a list with that in it? Admittedly this is over twice as large for 1 more mana, but kicker costs are usually cheaper than non-kicker versions ... aren't they? Oh
I honestly don't really get your comparison.
Sadistic Sacrament is BBB for 3 cards or 7BBB for 15 cards.
Denying Wind is 7UU for seven cards.
Why would kicker cards be cheaper than non-kicker? Kicker adds versatility, it must comes at a cost. And the versatility is what makes this black card hard to direct compare to this blue card (let alone the fact that they are different colors).
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I rolled 5 D6's and got 3 fours. They must have changed the odds of getting a 4!
If I'm paying ten mana for a spell, don't I just want to play Time Stretch and combo out myself? This ones doesn't seem all THAT spicy.
Your problem in the line of thought is that "I have to play this for 10 mana". That is wrong. Simply casting it for three mana can already get rid of a few serious threats, and the most often used combo pieces, from your opponent's library.
Casting this for 10 mana is just another option if it happens that you have the mana to spare.
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Also, can people say whether it's the 3-cards early on or the 15-card massive-cast that they think is so powerful?
I'm of the opinion that anything with a kicker cost is amazing. I really hate drawing late game 1-3 drops when I'm trying desperately to survive. I know this shouldn't happen often I'm playing correctly, but if my oponents goal is to draw out a game and put me in top deck, then kicker cards really start to shine.
the general idea is that if on turn 3-5 you have nothing better to do than tap 3-black for this, do it. first of all, it allows you to SEARCH THEIR LIBRARY, in the same way that duress means you see their hand and know what is coming at you in the next few turns, this means that you know everything they have coming at you for the rest of your match (also, when you play it again game 2 or 3, you know what they side boarded in). It also allows you to deal with any 1 2 or 3 ofs completely. this means that their game ending baneslayer, planeswalker, legendary creature, is gone before it is played, and at a time when they are probably not going to be countering. Now lategame, if you and your opponent are in top deck mode, you have the chance to make it so that all they will be drawing are 1 - 3 drops and land. you essentially have the power to end the game now as the rate that you draw finishers is going up as turns go by (especially if you are blue) and their chance of drawing finishers has probably just been reduced to 0.
I really can't stress enough how much of a bargain this is at 3 for control. You now know, game 1, what to medling mage, pithing needle, counter, duress, tidehollow, etc. as you are sure of what they are playing. Other search your opponents library cards are usually very expensive and hard to get off late game.
For sure this will see play in mill decks, doing this after a mind funeral or a few archive traps will insure they are not going to be doing much against you.
My favorite color combo has always been black green, so when I saw this I thought "hey, now I have something else to ramp into" I know this is not the intention of this card, and not how it will be played, but wouldn't it be fun in casual game play to do some super-ramping shenanigans and pull the kicker off turn 3 or 4, you could then search your opponents deck for all of their land and then watch as you are playing a ramp deck against an esper control deck that is running 5 lands (preferably all fetches or swamps or something). At that point you could throw a few of those mill traps in your sideboard and have an alternative mill win condition against other ramp decks.
Your problem in the line of thought is that "I have to play this for 10 mana". That is wrong. Simply casting it for three mana can already get rid of a few serious threats, and the most often used combo pieces, from your opponent's library.
Right, but even un-kicked, I still don't think this card is that exciting, especially since it's BBB. It might be a little better than Cranial Extraction, which isn't even all that hot. Unless you really fear combo decks I guess.
Right, but even un-kicked, I still don't think this card is that exciting, especially since it's BBB. It might be a little better than Cranial Extraction, which isn't even all that hot. Unless you really fear combo decks I guess.
Ways in which this card > cranial extraction:
1. you don't have to name the card first. You get to look through your opponent's library, decide the strategy of their deck, then take out those cards that break that strategy. This means this card is great mainboard instead of relying on figuring out your opponent's deck through regular gameplay (something that can be hard to do by turn 3).
2. Cranial extraction can be useless late game, and against 1 or 2 ofs. This card is amazing in both of those situations.
3. It isn't just about combos. non-combo decks may still rely on finishers. 1 of these can deal with at least 1 finisher. multiple in one game can severely weaken your opponent's deck.
4. kicker is an awesome mechanic that makes games fun.
5. You can get this card by opening packs of zendikar, a set which looks to be fun have lots of good, useful, expensive, cards in it. Cranial extraction is from a set which, in my opinion, was none of these things (yes ninja decks, I'm looking at you).
My point: comparing this to cranial extraction does not work. it's like comparing shock to burst lightning.
EDIT: I forgot that this card also does not say non-land. this can get rid of mutavaults, gargoyle towers, fetch lands, reflecting pools, etc. or even just a few basics if you see your opponent is mana screwed for a certain color.
Right, but even un-kicked, I still don't think this card is that exciting, especially since it's BBB. It might be a little better than Cranial Extraction, which isn't even all that hot. Unless you really fear combo decks I guess.
It is _3 cranial extractions_. Remember, it's the EDH we're talking about in here. It's thrice as good, and that is not counting the points in the previous post.
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
The new card doesn't let you look at their hand and if there is a key card and it is in their hand the new card can't hit it. Plus Cranial Extraction is much more splashable. I think this new card is overall more powerful but I don't think New Card >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cranial Extraction.
It is _3 cranial extractions_. Remember, it's the EDH we're talking about in here. It's thrice as good, and that is not counting the points in the previous post.
I'm aware of where I'm posting. The EDH decks I play with and against are pretty resilient against getting three cards swiped...not to mention I still won't know what's in my opponent's hand, which is pretty valuable information. And it's mana cost is still kind of awkward outside a two-color deck.
I'm not saying this card is the worst thing ever, my point is the card isn't all that much better than Cranial Extraction, and the fact of the matter is neither card is very exciting in the format. I'll stick with cards that actively contribute to winning the game..unless I build that UB mill deck one day...
Eh not bad way to break a combo. Im not sure if it'll be an auto EDH staple or anything, but for combo haters, it does what it does quite well.
Also, if your using it to break up an infinite combo, remember u dont need kicker. Few combos have a part with more then 3 redundant parts. There aint 3 replacements to Kiki-Jiki in the Pestermite combo, take him out and they aint comboing. Its FAR better then extraction.\
And then you get the versatility of the kicker. If you dont have it early, but draw it late, suddenly you have a sweet way to make an opponents deck signifigantly worse.
This is a great way to stop combos by Exiling (need to get used to that) cards from library, best one imo.
:symb::symb::symb: Sorcery Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Search target player's library for up to three cards, exile them, then that player shuffles his or her library. If Sadistic Sacrament was kicked, instead search that player's library for up to fifteen cards, exile them, then that player shuffles his of her library.
Pretty much my reaction.
I know this looks good for EDH, but I can't decide if it's actually good enough to play in a deck.
EDH
Azami (video)
:symw::symb::symg: Teneb (video)
Drana (video) (retired)
:symw::symr: Brion (video)
:symb::symr: Wort (video)
Arcum (video) (retired)
:symr::symg: Stonebrow (video)
B Shirei (video)
WU Rasputin (video) (retired)
R Urabrask (video)
WUR Zedruu (video) (retired)
W Isamaru
UB Grimgrin
U Mistform Ultimus (video)
UBR Gwendlyn (video)
URG Animar (video)
RG Thromok
WB Selenia
Standard
WU Geist of Saint Traft standard EDH (video) (retired)
WUB Battle of Wits!
Well it seems better than Cranial Extraction, which I use to get rid of combo's I see coming, before they hit the field.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
For one, its blue, they are the ones that already get counter spells to stop many combos. Secondly, that one is 9 total mana, the new one is only 3 (3 for 3, or 15 for 10), so you can get it off early, before some even get a chance to tutor.
Hmm... I didn't even realize Nightmare Incursion... Will have to consider that card sometime.
At the time the Wind was printed, that was an impressive effect.
Rootwater Thief was the only card with a repeatable search and exile ability, and the Jester's cards were the only ones that let your exile stuff from library.
That was years ago, and the ability has been buffed considerably, and at some point became black.
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I never said the other was bad, it's a nice one too, but if you need to get something done fast, the lower cost one works better I think.
Sadistic Sacrament is BBB for 3 cards or 7BBB for 15 cards.
Denying Wind is 7UU for seven cards.
Why would kicker cards be cheaper than non-kicker? Kicker adds versatility, it must comes at a cost. And the versatility is what makes this black card hard to direct compare to this blue card (let alone the fact that they are different colors).
Your problem in the line of thought is that "I have to play this for 10 mana". That is wrong. Simply casting it for three mana can already get rid of a few serious threats, and the most often used combo pieces, from your opponent's library.
Casting this for 10 mana is just another option if it happens that you have the mana to spare.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I'm of the opinion that anything with a kicker cost is amazing. I really hate drawing late game 1-3 drops when I'm trying desperately to survive. I know this shouldn't happen often I'm playing correctly, but if my oponents goal is to draw out a game and put me in top deck, then kicker cards really start to shine.
the general idea is that if on turn 3-5 you have nothing better to do than tap 3-black for this, do it. first of all, it allows you to SEARCH THEIR LIBRARY, in the same way that duress means you see their hand and know what is coming at you in the next few turns, this means that you know everything they have coming at you for the rest of your match (also, when you play it again game 2 or 3, you know what they side boarded in). It also allows you to deal with any 1 2 or 3 ofs completely. this means that their game ending baneslayer, planeswalker, legendary creature, is gone before it is played, and at a time when they are probably not going to be countering. Now lategame, if you and your opponent are in top deck mode, you have the chance to make it so that all they will be drawing are 1 - 3 drops and land. you essentially have the power to end the game now as the rate that you draw finishers is going up as turns go by (especially if you are blue) and their chance of drawing finishers has probably just been reduced to 0.
I really can't stress enough how much of a bargain this is at 3 for control. You now know, game 1, what to medling mage, pithing needle, counter, duress, tidehollow, etc. as you are sure of what they are playing. Other search your opponents library cards are usually very expensive and hard to get off late game.
For sure this will see play in mill decks, doing this after a mind funeral or a few archive traps will insure they are not going to be doing much against you.
My favorite color combo has always been black green, so when I saw this I thought "hey, now I have something else to ramp into" I know this is not the intention of this card, and not how it will be played, but wouldn't it be fun in casual game play to do some super-ramping shenanigans and pull the kicker off turn 3 or 4, you could then search your opponents deck for all of their land and then watch as you are playing a ramp deck against an esper control deck that is running 5 lands (preferably all fetches or swamps or something). At that point you could throw a few of those mill traps in your sideboard and have an alternative mill win condition against other ramp decks.
Right, but even un-kicked, I still don't think this card is that exciting, especially since it's BBB. It might be a little better than Cranial Extraction, which isn't even all that hot. Unless you really fear combo decks I guess.
Ways in which this card > cranial extraction:
1. you don't have to name the card first. You get to look through your opponent's library, decide the strategy of their deck, then take out those cards that break that strategy. This means this card is great mainboard instead of relying on figuring out your opponent's deck through regular gameplay (something that can be hard to do by turn 3).
2. Cranial extraction can be useless late game, and against 1 or 2 ofs. This card is amazing in both of those situations.
3. It isn't just about combos. non-combo decks may still rely on finishers. 1 of these can deal with at least 1 finisher. multiple in one game can severely weaken your opponent's deck.
4. kicker is an awesome mechanic that makes games fun.
5. You can get this card by opening packs of zendikar, a set which looks to be fun have lots of good, useful, expensive, cards in it. Cranial extraction is from a set which, in my opinion, was none of these things (yes ninja decks, I'm looking at you).
My point: comparing this to cranial extraction does not work. it's like comparing shock to burst lightning.
EDIT: I forgot that this card also does not say non-land. this can get rid of mutavaults, gargoyle towers, fetch lands, reflecting pools, etc. or even just a few basics if you see your opponent is mana screwed for a certain color.
It is _3 cranial extractions_. Remember, it's the EDH we're talking about in here. It's thrice as good, and that is not counting the points in the previous post.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I'm aware of where I'm posting. The EDH decks I play with and against are pretty resilient against getting three cards swiped...not to mention I still won't know what's in my opponent's hand, which is pretty valuable information. And it's mana cost is still kind of awkward outside a two-color deck.
I'm not saying this card is the worst thing ever, my point is the card isn't all that much better than Cranial Extraction, and the fact of the matter is neither card is very exciting in the format. I'll stick with cards that actively contribute to winning the game..unless I build that UB mill deck one day...
Also, if your using it to break up an infinite combo, remember u dont need kicker. Few combos have a part with more then 3 redundant parts. There aint 3 replacements to Kiki-Jiki in the Pestermite combo, take him out and they aint comboing. Its FAR better then extraction.\
And then you get the versatility of the kicker. If you dont have it early, but draw it late, suddenly you have a sweet way to make an opponents deck signifigantly worse.
This is a great way to stop combos by Exiling (need to get used to that) cards from library, best one imo.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios!
I'm confused as to what this had to do with anything here in the thread? Door to Nothingness = Win too.