Been play-testing and the main problem is wrath effects. Tried to run a decent amount of reanimating effects, but never seem to have them at the right time. Vesuva and Terrain Generator have been sub-par and would like to replace with standard swamps or other good utility lands.
There hasn't really been many problems recovering from wrath effects other than just not having many rats after a wrath or two (usually a wrath effect every 4 - 5 turns on average with my edh group). I also try to play the rats sparingly, but I seem to run out regardless after trying to recover once or twice.
I thought about Black Market, but mana shortage hasn't really been an issue, but if I do put the Altar in then I could see using it to just fuel a card drawing engine each turn.
I like the Lab Rats, but I'd like it a whole lot better if it were an instant. I'll try subbing it in and trying it out for a while though. I also like the Rats of Wrath suggestion. I didn't really think of the usefulness of their ability till I thought of all the remove from game/put on the bottom of library effects that would be tossed at all my best creatures.
holy hell you zomg needz some black market! Must need....also, it kind of goes hand in hand, sprout swarm does me some wicked good, and it always starts out slow, Lab Rats will do the same for you. I have no idea why I am typeing this instead of you just tell you face to face.....awkward.
holy hell you zomg needz some black market! Must need....also, it kind of goes hand in hand, sprout swarm does me some wicked good, and it always starts out slow, Lab Rats will do the same for you. I have no idea why I am typeing this instead of you just tell you face to face.....awkward.
The English.....They do nothingz!!! Heh, just kidding dude.
I think I could get my hands on Lab Rats, the the Black Market, though cheap, will be a problem. I'll probably have to wait till the Tampa Grand Prix to get a hold on some of these cards.
Oh yea, I almost forgot. It's probably due to the fact that you love Pizza Hut so much that you have to spend your time there.
Isn't there a card where every playerd chooses a creature type and everyone returns all creatures of tha type to play?? Anyone recall?
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Cubes:
360 Powered Cube
400 Common/Uncommon Cube
Edh Decks:
Uril, The Miststalker RGW
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G
Norin, The Wary R
Retired Generals
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa G
Maaga, Traitor To Mortals B
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails W
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs R
Savra, Queen of the Golgari BG
Stonebrow, Krosan Hero RG
Kemba, Kha Regent W
Captain Sisay GW
Darien, King of Kheldor W
Geth, Lord of the Vault B
Thought about Patriarch's Bidding, but the major problem is that I'd get crushed by the people that I play with (whole lot of tribal action in the player pool), but it is a good suggestion.
Edit: Another problem is the fact that after you Patriarch's Bidding, wouldn't I run into the problem of sitting there and receiving the bonus from it last due to it being a sorcery especially due to there being a lot of tribal in my pool?
Edit: Fixed tags. Nath'd anywho, so it doesn't really matter.
Also, Relentless Rats can't be used in multiples in singleton formats. I am pretty sure the format rules override the card text.
on the official EDH forum that the rule commitee posts at I think they said that Relentless rats can be played in multiples, but also they said its house rules so people can decide not to allow it if they dont want to
these are the forums incase you were wondering, saw a question about relentless rats about a month ago, shouldnt be too hard to find http://forum.dragonhighlander.net/EDH_Forum/
I'm sure that the players in my area would allow it (I think someone is actually building that now) but I personally dislike that deck idea just because it seems rather boring.
A card that I have had a lot of sucess with is Skull Collector. Combined with Chittering Rats, you can soft lock your opponent (it is also fun to reccur ravenous rats or any of your ninjas). I also do not see Ratcatcher! how can you say no to a free rat tutor every turna
I didn't really like the Pestilence Rats or the Infected Vermin due to their large cost and bad utilities, so if I can sub them out for better rats/FREE TUTORS! I'll go for it.
IDK, dude has a point with this Skull Collector thing. Look at it like this...
A) You can tell that a wrath is coming down after your turn because of things the other players have done. Skull Collector bounce something you want to save to keep your engine going. Hopefully the Martial coup or something and he can Regen past the wrath.
B) Chittering Rats soft lock is nothing to laugh at. It can be a huge pain in the ass to get around. Pretty much someone else has to save them. But beware, once you soft lock someone, there going to try and kill you...So basically this tactic is only used when you are ahead...and you are trying to stay ahead.
C) This guy was the early kind of answer you seem to want. Skull Collector is only 3 mana and can Regen after blocks to keep your life total up in the early parts of the game. T1 Rat, T2 Utility, T3 Skull Collector....live a while.
D) I also like this guy because he almost forces you not to over extend. With him bouncing a guy every turn, that means, to over extend you would have to play something like 3 guys in 1 turn to over extend, maybe even 4 guys. And well, if you do that...you deserve to be wraith-ed.
On side notes: There is 2 tribal decks, Scarecrows and Elemental s. So P. Bidding would be a very scary play sometimes, but it would also win you the game in others.
Also, Yes, I do put this much thought into every single card I play. That way if one of you silly people laughs at me for playing it...I can back it up on why its better then whatever peice of trash you "think" I should be playing, and well you've seen Doran in action. The deck speaks for itself.:p
Both cards have been draws where I just go "Damn, I drew this thing". I mean, the rings I can see becoming broken, and I have a few questions on how the abilities resolve when duplicated. The Altar is just too slow, eats too many of my turns mana and just does not function.
As for the Ring's ability, I have to pay costs for both abilities. Which means that I have to have a minimum of 3 rats to play (which is the same number needed to get any real effect at all for marrow's ability other than fizzling spells).
So it would start with me activating Marrow's ability and sacrificing a rat and putting that on the stack and copying with the rings. At that point I have to sacrifice another rat and then the copy resolves first correct? Which gives me two rats (Marrow and token) and then the first activation resolves and gives me 4 rats (Marrow and 3 tokens).
I can see this getting better with the more rats that I have (roughly a net gain of about 2 rat tokens for every rat you have over 3).
Ex: (original ability): 7 - 1 = 6 * 2 = 12 rats
(original with copy): 7 - 1 = 6 - 1 = 5 * 2 = 10 * 2 = 20 rats
So I don't really want to cut the rings, but they have not performed very well in any of the games that I've played them in.
Anyway, if anyone sees a good cut for the bidding and skull collector, feel free to suggest away and I'll take everything into consideration.
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01 Marrow-Gnawer
Legendary Creatures (7):
02 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
03 Chainer, Dementia Master
04 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
05 Ascendant Evincar
06 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
07 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
08 Ashling, the Extinguisher
Creatures (23):
09 Throat Slitter
10 Muck Rats
11 Diseased Vermin
12 Nezumi Graverobber
13 Kuro's Taken
14 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
15 SkullSnatcher
16 Chittering Rats
17 Crypt Rats
18 Pestilence Rats
19 Bog Rats
20 Swarm of Rats
21 Nezumi Cutthroat
22 Nezumi Shortfang
23 Skeletal Changeling
24 Ravenous Rats
25 Infected Vermin
26 Bane of the Living
27 Reiver Demon
28 Coffin Queen
29 Avatar of Woe
30 Solemn Simulacrum
31 Cairn Wanderer
32 Beacon of Unrest
33 Sign in Blood
34 Rise from the Grave
35 Plague Wind
36 Barter in Blood
37 Decree of Pain
38 Demonic Tutor
39 Diabolic Tutor
40 Profane Command
41 Damnation
42 Victimize
43 Consume Spirit
Artifacts (14):
44 Eldrazi Monument
45 Extraplanar Lens
46 Skullclamp
47 Sensei's Divining Top
48 Mind's Eye
49 Coat of Arms
50 Soul Foundry
51 Thousand-Year Elixir
52 Thornbite Staff
53 Rings of Brighthearth
54 Gauntlet of Power
55 Sol Ring
56 Riptide Replicator
57 Altar of Shadows
Enchantments(5):
58 Grave Pact
59 Animate Dead
60 Oversold Cemetery
61 Necromancy
62 Phyrexian Arena
63 Liliana Vess
64 Sorin Markov
Lands (36):
65 Cabal Coffers
66 Crypt of Agadeem
67 Swarmyard
68 Miren, the Moaning Well
69 Thawing Glaciers
70 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
71 Temple of the False God
72 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
73 Volrath's Stronghold
74 Ghost Quarter
75 Strip Mine
76 Vesuva
77 Terrain Generator
78 Swamp
79 Swamp
80 Swamp
90 Swamp
91 Swamp
92 Swamp
94 Swamp
95 Swamp
96 Swamp
97 Swamp
98 Swamp
99 Swamp
100 Swamp
Been play-testing and the main problem is wrath effects. Tried to run a decent amount of reanimating effects, but never seem to have them at the right time. Vesuva and Terrain Generator have been sub-par and would like to replace with standard swamps or other good utility lands.
Edit: Also subbed out some cards for the new stuff from Zendikar (Sorin Markov, Eldrazi Monument, etc.)
Feel free to suggest/critique. Could always use good input.
As for draw effects for this problem, I have Skullclamp, Mind's Eye, and Phyrexian Arena as lasting effects. I was thinking of putting in an Carnage Altar but wasn't sure about that just yet.
I thought about Black Market, but mana shortage hasn't really been an issue, but if I do put the Altar in then I could see using it to just fuel a card drawing engine each turn.
I like the Lab Rats, but I'd like it a whole lot better if it were an instant. I'll try subbing it in and trying it out for a while though. I also like the Rats of Wrath suggestion. I didn't really think of the usefulness of their ability till I thought of all the remove from game/put on the bottom of library effects that would be tossed at all my best creatures.
The English.....They do nothingz!!! Heh, just kidding dude.
I think I could get my hands on Lab Rats, the the Black Market, though cheap, will be a problem. I'll probably have to wait till the Tampa Grand Prix to get a hold on some of these cards.
Oh yea, I almost forgot. It's probably due to the fact that you love Pizza Hut so much that you have to spend your time there.
360 Powered Cube
400 Common/Uncommon Cube
Edh Decks:
Uril, The Miststalker RGW
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G
Norin, The Wary R
Retired Generals
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa G
Maaga, Traitor To Mortals B
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails W
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs R
Savra, Queen of the Golgari BG
Stonebrow, Krosan Hero RG
Kemba, Kha Regent W
Captain Sisay GW
Darien, King of Kheldor W
Geth, Lord of the Vault B
throw in swarmyard, patriarchs bidding and some card fetchers.
R Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
BG Varolz, the scar-striped
Edit: Fixed tags. Nath'd anywho, so it doesn't really matter.
Also, Relentless Rats can't be used in multiples in singleton formats. I am pretty sure the format rules override the card text.
Edit: Another problem is the fact that after you Patriarch's Bidding, wouldn't I run into the problem of sitting there and receiving the bonus from it last due to it being a sorcery especially due to there being a lot of tribal in my pool?
Would there be any real problem with running both Eldrazi Monument and Akroma's Memorial, or is that really just overkill?
on the official EDH forum that the rule commitee posts at I think they said that Relentless rats can be played in multiples, but also they said its house rules so people can decide not to allow it if they dont want to
these are the forums incase you were wondering, saw a question about relentless rats about a month ago, shouldnt be too hard to find
http://forum.dragonhighlander.net/EDH_Forum/
A card that I have had a lot of sucess with is Skull Collector. Combined with Chittering Rats, you can soft lock your opponent (it is also fun to reccur ravenous rats or any of your ninjas). I also do not see Ratcatcher! how can you say no to a free rat tutor every turna
I'm not so sure about Skull Collector. It just seems to be a little eh, but I don't see a reason why I can't give it a try.
01 Marrow-Gnawer
Legendary Creatures (7):
02 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
03 Chainer, Dementia Master
04 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
05 Ascendant Evincar
06 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
07 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
08 Ashling, the Extinguisher
Creatures (23):
09 Throat Slitter
10 Muck Rats
11 Diseased Vermin
12 Nezumi Graverobber
13 Kuro's Taken
14 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
15 SkullSnatcher
16 Chittering Rats
17 Crypt Rats
18 Rats of Rath
19 Bog Rats
20 Swarm of Rats
21 Nezumi Cutthroat
22 Nezumi Shortfang
23 Skeletal Changeling
24 Ravenous Rats
25 Ratcatcher
26 Bane of the Living
27 Reiver Demon
28 Coffin Queen
29 Avatar of Woe
30 Solemn Simulacrum
31 Cairn Wanderer
32 Beacon of Unrest
33 Lab Rats
34 Rise from the Grave
35 Plague Wind
36 Barter in Blood
37 Decree of Pain
38 Demonic Tutor
39 Diabolic Tutor
40 Profane Command
41 Damnation
42 Victimize
43 Consume Spirit
Artifacts (14):
44 Eldrazi Monument
45 Extraplanar Lens
46 Skullclamp
47 Sensei's Divining Top
48 Mind's Eye
49 Coat of Arms
50 Soul Foundry
51 Thousand-Year Elixir
52 Thornbite Staff
53 Rings of Brighthearth
54 Gauntlet of Power
55 Sol Ring
56 Riptide Replicator
57 Altar of Shadows
Enchantments(6):
58 Grave Pact
59 Animate Dead
60 Oversold Cemetery
61 Necromancy
62 Phyrexian Arena
63 Black Market
63 Liliana Vess
64 Sorin Markov
Lands (35):
65 Cabal Coffers
66 Crypt of Agadeem
67 Swarmyard
68 Miren, the Moaning Well
69 Thawing Glaciers
70 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
71 Temple of the False God
72 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
73 Volrath's Stronghold
74 Ghost Quarter
75 Strip Mine
76 Vesuva
78 Swamp
79 Swamp
80 Swamp
90 Swamp
91 Swamp
92 Swamp
94 Swamp
95 Swamp
96 Swamp
97 Swamp
98 Swamp
99 Swamp
100 Swamp
Took out:
Sign in Blood for the Lab Rats
Pestilence Rats for the Rats of Rath
Infected Vermin for Ratcatcher
Terrain Generator for Black Market
I didn't really like the Pestilence Rats or the Infected Vermin due to their large cost and bad utilities, so if I can sub them out for better rats/FREE TUTORS! I'll go for it.
A) You can tell that a wrath is coming down after your turn because of things the other players have done. Skull Collector bounce something you want to save to keep your engine going. Hopefully the Martial coup or something and he can Regen past the wrath.
B) Chittering Rats soft lock is nothing to laugh at. It can be a huge pain in the ass to get around. Pretty much someone else has to save them. But beware, once you soft lock someone, there going to try and kill you...So basically this tactic is only used when you are ahead...and you are trying to stay ahead.
C) This guy was the early kind of answer you seem to want. Skull Collector is only 3 mana and can Regen after blocks to keep your life total up in the early parts of the game. T1 Rat, T2 Utility, T3 Skull Collector....live a while.
D) I also like this guy because he almost forces you not to over extend. With him bouncing a guy every turn, that means, to over extend you would have to play something like 3 guys in 1 turn to over extend, maybe even 4 guys. And well, if you do that...you deserve to be wraith-ed.
On side notes: There is 2 tribal decks, Scarecrows and Elemental s. So P. Bidding would be a very scary play sometimes, but it would also win you the game in others.
Also, Yes, I do put this much thought into every single card I play. That way if one of you silly people laughs at me for playing it...I can back it up on why its better then whatever peice of trash you "think" I should be playing, and well you've seen Doran in action. The deck speaks for itself.:p
One thing that I'm thinking of taking out is the Rings of Brighthearth and the Altar of Shadows
Both cards have been draws where I just go "Damn, I drew this thing". I mean, the rings I can see becoming broken, and I have a few questions on how the abilities resolve when duplicated. The Altar is just too slow, eats too many of my turns mana and just does not function.
As for the Ring's ability, I have to pay costs for both abilities. Which means that I have to have a minimum of 3 rats to play (which is the same number needed to get any real effect at all for marrow's ability other than fizzling spells).
So it would start with me activating Marrow's ability and sacrificing a rat and putting that on the stack and copying with the rings. At that point I have to sacrifice another rat and then the copy resolves first correct? Which gives me two rats (Marrow and token) and then the first activation resolves and gives me 4 rats (Marrow and 3 tokens).
I can see this getting better with the more rats that I have (roughly a net gain of about 2 rat tokens for every rat you have over 3).
Ex: (original ability): 7 - 1 = 6 * 2 = 12 rats
(original with copy): 7 - 1 = 6 - 1 = 5 * 2 = 10 * 2 = 20 rats
So I don't really want to cut the rings, but they have not performed very well in any of the games that I've played them in.
Anyway, if anyone sees a good cut for the bidding and skull collector, feel free to suggest away and I'll take everything into consideration.