Hey All, I'm new to EDH although I've wanted to start playing for some time. Anyways, I could use quite a bit of help with this. I want to make a deck that use Celestial Kirin to control the board and basically gets card advantage by getting 2 for 1's via Kirin's ability and a few other Rath effects.
Right now it's pretty rough and has too many cards, but I basically just started typing out cards I thought my work so I could make cuts and additions with your input. Please let me know what you think I should take out and what I should add. Budget isn't much of an issue, although I'm not going to be getting a moat or a Tabernacle anytime soon.
So I'm thinking of trying to reduce my permanent count in order to get the most out of celestial kirin. Maybe I'll take out stuff like oblivion ring. The problem is that white doesn't really have a lot of powerful spells.
I'm also think I'm going to throw in expidition map as a tutor for Emeria, the sky ruin because it's such a bomb. Should I try to add more creatures with soulshift? Do I have the right balance of spirit/arcane mana costs?
I need your help!
Karakas is banned, due to the assumption that you would be using it to bounce your opponent's general indefinitely, thus invalidating them having it. If your playgroup allows it, that's wonderful, but it can be a pain in the butt when used and abused. I would recommend replacing it with another card. Perhaps Windbrisk Heights? I've never found a reason not to play it in monowhite, it's really nice because you can usually find an opponent with an empty field, or attack with a couple fliers and then use the card you got.
Karakas is banned, due to the assumption that you would be using it to bounce your opponent's general indefinitely, thus invalidating them having it. If your playgroup allows it, that's wonderful, but it can be a pain in the butt when used and abused. I would recommend replacing it with another card. Perhaps Windbrisk Heights? I've never found a reason not to play it in monowhite, it's really nice because you can usually find an opponent with an empty field, or attack with a couple fliers and then use the card you got.
The two Elspeths are a great thesis on women in general. When you first meet one, she costs a decent amount to attract, makes you stronger and gives you the feeling that you're flying. She also goes to great lengths to protect her loved ones from harm. After a while, she gets more expensive to maintain, gives birth like a sow, becomes less loyal after doing so, and tops it all off by wrecking crap around the house. Except hers, of course.
Make people cry. Switch Scout's Warning for Eldrazi Monument to sweep everyone's board but yours.
Also, your general counts against the 100 card limit. A minor thing, but as it stands, you run a 101-card deck.
That's a nice idea. I'm gonna have to mull over it. It's always tough to cut cards and I still have to make room for stonecloaker and take out another card because I have one too many.
Alright, here's a quick update on the things I've been thinking about:
1) I need to make one cut to get my list down to 100
2) I really want to fit stonecloaker in for it's synergy with the rest of the deck and because I should pack at least some graveyard hate.
3) I wondering if I should include more enchantment recursion such as crystal chimes or mine excavation
4) I'm worried I might not have enough wincons, which makes eldrazi monument somewhat attractive, although I'm not sure I want to take out scout's warning for it.
5) Are there any other cards I could include to create a soft lock?
6) for every thing I add I need to cut something
2) I really want to fit stonecloaker in for it's synergy with the rest of the deck and because I should pack at least some graveyard hate.
As far as Graveyard Hate in White goes, personally I think Jotun Grunt is far superior to Stonecloaker. But I guess that is a personal decision.
4) I'm worried I might not have enough wincons, which makes eldrazi monument somewhat attractive, although I'm not sure I want to take out scout's warning for it.
The beauty of Jotun Grunt is that it is both Graveyard hate AND a win condition
Also, if you could, would you please organize your deck list a little better. The way it is currently organized it is a headache to read (At least for me).
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
As far as Graveyard Hate in White goes, personally I think Jotun Grunt is far superior to Stonecloaker. But I guess that is a personal decision.
The beauty of Jotun Grunt is that it is both Graveyard hate AND a win condition
Also, if you could, would you please organize your deck list a little better. The way it is currently organized it is a headache to read (At least for me).
Keep in mind that stonecloaker has another useful ability. I can return creatures to my hand to bomb stuff or return them to avoid blowing them up.
How is jotun grunt a wincon?
How would you recommend organizing it? To me it looks the same as everyone elses. Is it because I seperated the spirits by converted mana cost?
Keep in mind that stonecloaker has another useful ability. I can return creatures to my hand to bomb stuff or return them to avoid blowing them up.
How is jotun grunt a wincon?
How would you recommend organizing it? To me it looks the same as everyone elses. Is it because I seperated the spirits by converted mana cost?
Both Jotun Grunt and Stonecloaker are often run in a legacy deck that is very similar to this one (along with another card known as Samurai of the Pale Curtain) this legacy deck is known as "Death and Taxes" and features a strategy aimed at bouncing and replaying a particular legendary creature quite frequently. They each serve a different vital role in that deck. Jotun Grunt serves as an alternate win condition for the deck, that also happens to function as a form of graveyard hate. Stonecloaker serves as an alternate bounce effect (alternate to Karakas). Meanwhile Samurai of the Pale Curtain's primary purpose is as a form of Graveyard Hate first and foremost.
As for how Jotun Grunt is a finisher, simply put, it is a 4/4 creature that costs 2 mana. It is in effect an extremely undercoasted beatstick who in a multi-player game can remain out for quite a long time unless disrupted somehow.
Honestly, if I had to choose, I would run BOTH stonecloaker AND Jotun Grunt in your deck as they serve different roles, but are both incredibly useful and diverse in what they do.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
Both Jotun Grunt and Stonecloaker are often run in a legacy deck that is very similar to this one (along with another card known as Samurai of the Pale Curtain) this legacy deck is known as "Death and Taxes" and features a strategy aimed at bouncing and replaying a particular legendary creature quite frequently. They each serve a different vital role in that deck. Jotun Grunt serves as an alternate win condition for the deck, that also happens to function as a form of graveyard hate. Stonecloaker serves as an alternate bounce effect (alternate to Karakas). Meanwhile Samurai of the Pale Curtain's primary purpose is as a form of Graveyard Hate first and foremost.
As for how Jotun Grunt is a finisher, simply put, it is a 4/4 creature that costs 2 mana. It is in effect an extremely undercoasted beatstick who in a multi-player game can remain out for quite a long time unless disrupted somehow.
Honestly, if I had to choose, I would run BOTH stonecloaker AND Jotun Grunt in your deck as they serve different roles, but are both incredibly useful and diverse in what they do.
What would you recommend taking out for either of them? Also, what is it that you would like me to change about the way that the decklist was formatted?
Right now it's pretty rough and has too many cards, but I basically just started typing out cards I thought my work so I could make cuts and additions with your input. Please let me know what you think I should take out and what I should add. Budget isn't much of an issue, although I'm not going to be getting a moat or a Tabernacle anytime soon.
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Blessed Breath
CMC=2 - 4
1 Kami of Ancient Law
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Otherworldly Journey
1 Shining Shoal
CMC=3 - 4
1 Mirror Entity
1 Twilight Drover
1 Crib Swap
1 Terashi's Grasp
CMC= 4 - 5
1 Blinking Spirit
1 Celestial Crusader
1 Wall of Reverence
1 Moonlit Strider
1 Windborn Muse
CMC = 5 - 5
1 Belfry Spirit
1 Karmic Guide
1 Horizon Seed
1 Hundred Talon Kami
1 Torii Watchward
CMC = 6 - 3
1 Kami of the Palace Fields
1 Spirit of the Hearth
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
CMC = 7/8 - 4
1 Kami of the Honored Dead
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens
1 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
1 Twilight Shepherd
1 Reveillark
1 Magus of the Tabernacle
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Academy Rector
Removal - 7
1 Return to Dust
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Condemn
1 Wrath of God
1 Austere Command
1 Martial Coup
Other Spells - 7
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Decree of Justice
1 Scout's Warning
1 Replenish
1 Ghostway
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
Enchantments - 6
1 Enduring Renewal
1 Sigil of the New Dawn
1 Fanatical Devotion
1 Land Tax
1 Aura of Silence
1 Luminarch Ascension
Artifacts - 11
1 Sol Ring
1 Extraplanar Lense
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Scroll rack
1 Mind's Eye
1 Expedition Map
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Shield of Kaldra
1 Drifting Meadow
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Forbidding Watchtower
1 High Market
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Kor Haven
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Winding Canyons
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Windbrisk Heights
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Dust Bowl
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Vesuva
1 Mistveil Plains
18 Plains
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Farsight Mask
1 Smokestack
1 Arena of the Ancients
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Shield of Kaldra
1 Relic of the Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pteron Ghost
1 Terashi's Verdict
1 Hikari, Twilight Guardian
1 Innocence Kami
1 Runed Halo
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Open the Vaults
1 Second Thoughts
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Death or Glory
1 dawn charm
1 dust to dust
1 mine excavation
1 Oblation
1 Day of Judgement
1 Mass Calcify
1 Storm Herd
So I'm thinking of trying to reduce my permanent count in order to get the most out of celestial kirin. Maybe I'll take out stuff like oblivion ring. The problem is that white doesn't really have a lot of powerful spells.
I'm also think I'm going to throw in expidition map as a tutor for Emeria, the sky ruin because it's such a bomb. Should I try to add more creatures with soulshift? Do I have the right balance of spirit/arcane mana costs?
I need your help!
Try to abuse the Kirin's ability by having your spirits and arcanes not match the casting costs of your other permanents.
Use creatures that persist, are indescrutible, otherwise recur themselves, or have cool effects when they die (Ivory Gargoyle, Konda, Lord of Eiganjo, Twilight Shepherd, Archon of Justice, Myojin of Cleansing Fire, Reveillark).
Be super annoying: Run Proclamation of Rebirth and Martyr of Sands (along with other good targets).
Tokens don't have a casting cost, so they are immune to Kirin. Run good token generators coupled with anthem effects and equipment (Spectral Procession, Cloudgoat Ranger, Mobilization, Honor of the Pure, Elspeth, Knight-Errant).
Eliminate some of your weaker spirits: Pteron Ghost, Harsh Deceiver, Kami of the Palace Fields.
Good luck with this deck. It's a cool general choice.
Cheers,
rant
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Thanks, I took out karakas and added windbrisk heights
How many global sweepers should I play? Also, how much creature, artifact, and enchantment spot removal should I play?
I still could use help with this people.
Posts Merged, Warning Issued — DC
Well, I finally cut it down to 100. Is 37 lands enough? Let me know if you would make any additions/subtractions.
Are you yoyoyo on the EDH boards? If so I don't need to repeat my advice!
Commander BLOG: The Crazy 99
Gonti ; Sissay
Anyone have any other suggestions?
I also took out ghost-lit redeemer because there aren't many one-drops in EDH and replaced it with Elspeth, Knight Errant. I'd really like to fit stonecloaker in and maybe even scrabbling claws. Any suggestions as to what I should take out?
Also, your general counts against the 100 card limit. A minor thing, but as it stands, you run a 101-card deck.
That's a nice idea. I'm gonna have to mull over it. It's always tough to cut cards and I still have to make room for stonecloaker and take out another card because I have one too many.
1) I need to make one cut to get my list down to 100
2) I really want to fit stonecloaker in for it's synergy with the rest of the deck and because I should pack at least some graveyard hate.
3) I wondering if I should include more enchantment recursion such as crystal chimes or mine excavation
4) I'm worried I might not have enough wincons, which makes eldrazi monument somewhat attractive, although I'm not sure I want to take out scout's warning for it.
5) Are there any other cards I could include to create a soft lock?
6) for every thing I add I need to cut something
Any help would be appreciated!
As far as Graveyard Hate in White goes, personally I think Jotun Grunt is far superior to Stonecloaker. But I guess that is a personal decision.
The beauty of Jotun Grunt is that it is both Graveyard hate AND a win condition
Also, if you could, would you please organize your deck list a little better. The way it is currently organized it is a headache to read (At least for me).
Keep in mind that stonecloaker has another useful ability. I can return creatures to my hand to bomb stuff or return them to avoid blowing them up.
How is jotun grunt a wincon?
How would you recommend organizing it? To me it looks the same as everyone elses. Is it because I seperated the spirits by converted mana cost?
Both Jotun Grunt and Stonecloaker are often run in a legacy deck that is very similar to this one (along with another card known as Samurai of the Pale Curtain) this legacy deck is known as "Death and Taxes" and features a strategy aimed at bouncing and replaying a particular legendary creature quite frequently. They each serve a different vital role in that deck. Jotun Grunt serves as an alternate win condition for the deck, that also happens to function as a form of graveyard hate. Stonecloaker serves as an alternate bounce effect (alternate to Karakas). Meanwhile Samurai of the Pale Curtain's primary purpose is as a form of Graveyard Hate first and foremost.
As for how Jotun Grunt is a finisher, simply put, it is a 4/4 creature that costs 2 mana. It is in effect an extremely undercoasted beatstick who in a multi-player game can remain out for quite a long time unless disrupted somehow.
Honestly, if I had to choose, I would run BOTH stonecloaker AND Jotun Grunt in your deck as they serve different roles, but are both incredibly useful and diverse in what they do.
What would you recommend taking out for either of them? Also, what is it that you would like me to change about the way that the decklist was formatted?
Any more suggestions for cuts/additions?