[Official Thread] Red Deck Wins

[Johm000]

This thread is for the discussion of the Red Deck Wins (RDW) archetype ONLY.

Sample decklist:

Red Deck Wins, by Zach Barker, SCG 5k Philly
Creatures 4 Ball Lightning 4 Goblin Guide 4 Hell's Thunder 4 Hellspark Elemental 4 Plated Geopede 1 Obsidian Fireheart Spells 4 Burst Lightning 4 Lightning Bolt 3 Earthquake 3 Elemental Appeal 1 Resounding Thunder	Lands 12 Mountain 4 Arid Mesa 4 Scalding Tarn 4 Teetering Peaks	Sideboard 4 Goblin Ruinblaster 4 Unstable Footing 2 Act Of Treason 2 Chandra Nalaar 2 Mark Of Mutiny 1 Earthquake

As per the forum rules, any other threads created to discuss this archetype will be locked and infracted.

[taj_gooba]

I will be the first to post here!
I hate mono red. I hate aggro. I am not a Spike player and could care less about Pro tour players. BUT , I do like to test against top tier decks (so my rouge decks can try to beat them).
I have two mono red decks I have been testing against. The first Gobos and the second looks alot like the deck posted here. So I offer them as discussion pieces.


The Gobos deck annoys me to no end. It pulls out turn four kills 50% of the time and wins out of nowhere. it wins games it should not win. I think there are 3 reason for this. Quest for Pure Flame is off the wall. It is easy to set up and doubles everything - inducing Lighting bolt. Warren Instigator - left unanswered- is ********. Goblin Bushwhacker makes surprise plays. Honorable mention in the deck: Ball lighting. Lighting Bolt and Howling Mine. Howling mine is almost always good in a fast red deck. Red empty's it's hand faster than any other color, on the flip side of that, Howing ming can give control and mid range the land drops that they need. Omitting Howling Mine for more threats is not a bad option. I am not sure why Goblins are not often found in the top tier, I suspect it is because of Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout. But those cards are useless against Jund so they may fall out of favor in the future.

BTW -I once got a turn 3 win with this list- 19 points (his one fetch land did him him on his second turn)

Mono Red Gobos
Lands 17 Mountain 4 Teetering Peaks Creatures 4 Goblin Guide 4 Goblin Bushwhacker 4 Warren Instigator 4 Goblin Chieftain 4 Ball Lightning 4 Siege-Gang Commander	Spells 4 Lightning Bolt 3 Burst Lightning Enchantments and Artifacts 4 Quest for Pure Flame 4 Howling Mine

This second deck I offer because there are some good choices here. I give the fast game away for a mid range approach. Electropotence may seem like a bad card, but it answers the problem of fist strikers and gives you more game after turn five. Example turn 6-7 drop ball lighting to eliminate Baneslayer Angel and roll in for 6 damage. Additionally, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle is ridiculously good mid and late game (especially in multiples - Die! Baneslayer! die!!!). In this deck, I not only run Howling Mine, but a pair of Font of Mythos. This is because the deck lacks any board presence.

Ball Lighting.dec
Lands 4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle 12 Mountain 4 Arid Mesa 4 Scalding Tarn Creatures 4 Ball Lightning 4 Hellspark Elemental 3 Hell's Thunder Artifacts and Enchatments 4 Howling Mine 2 Font of Mythos 3 Electropotence	Spells 4 Burst Lightning 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Earthquake 4 Elemental Appeal

Good luck with this! And please know I hate you for playing mono red. Try control some time, it requires more thought!

[Lady Jaid'N]

@ Sample Decklist -- Not feeling Obsidian Fireheart. Seems too slow. Also not a big fan of Resounding Thunder, but with Flame Javelin gone.. might be the only choice.

@ Taj -- Why post here if you hate aggro/RDW and don't care about Pro Tour? Seems just like a waste of time.

I believe goblin is just a whole other deck that probably doesn't really fit here. As for the other deck, Font of Mythos is just bad for this deck, imo. Because the later the game goes the uglier its looking for this deck. Speed is key and Mythos just doesn't work with that in mind.

Here's what I'll be testing.

RDW
Creatures: 4x Goblin Guide 4x Plated Geopede 4x Hellspark Elemental 4x Ball Lightning 4x Hell's Thunder Spells: 4x Lightning Bolt 4x Burst Lightning 3x Howling Mine 4x Elemental Appeal 3x Earthquake	Lands: 10x Mountain 4x Teetering Peaks 4x Scalding Tarn 4x Arid Mesa	Sideboard: 4x Magma Spray 3x Act of Treason 3x Unstable Footing 2x Manabarbs 2x Pithing Needle 1x Banefire

I put in the Howling Mine cuz we do run out of steam. I'll test and see how it goes.

Edit:

Vs. Boros [2-1] - It's real close against this deck. First game he pretty much had a perfect hand and my hand was full of 3-4cc stuff. Next 2 games I sided in Magma Spray and it was GG.

Vs. Jund Aggro [2-1] - Won G1, Goblin Guide and P.Geo stomping face and him with no removal. G2 he won with Bolt, Terminate, Blightning x2, more Bolt, BBE > Leach and I had no answer due to loss of hand. G3 I sided in Magma Spray and took it with Goblin, Hellspark, Thunder, Appeal, Bolt.

[taj_gooba]

M'lady, sorry if you fail to follow your logic. I explained all and yes
1. The vacumme sound you hear is the the Font of Mythos giving far too many cards to your non mono red deck opponent to play.

2. I am shocked gobos is not listed in top results. I gave my reasons and understanding of this. There is NO~~~ zero!~~~ deck that can pull off as many turn 4 wins as Gobos. None. XZXero. Thus, I read the meta-game from my rouge chair and I flipped out. The world is upside down.

But I don't live in a Spike world. ( But maybe you do...lol...lets see." IS four/five color control is still relevant? Lol. Snort. So many Spikes believed this. Another. Think now some Spikes believe Doran still exists as a deck type.. OPPS what a joke! Sometimes they even call it "Rock") BTW mocking is not trolling. People need to learn that old archetypes are simply that - OLD. If you want to explore that old style , fine but don't think you have a cat in the bag based on the old deck build.


Test the Gobos deck and then come attack me.

[panda]

it is faster then r/w bushwaker but not as fun here is my list and yes warren instigator is amazing

Deck
Lands 13 Mountain 4 scalding tarn 4 Teetering Peaks Creatures 4 Goblin Guide 4 Goblin Bushwhacker 4 Warren Instigator 4 Goblin Chieftain 4 Ball Lightning 4 Siege-Gang Commander	Spells 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Burst Lightning 4 dragon fodder 3 magmaspray

[taj_gooba]

Agreed Panda, it is faster. Please explain why your deck is relevant to the meta game. Look at Extended and Vintage forums... posting "my deck is awesome" does not fly.

[Lady Jaid'N]

@ Taj: First of all, I wasn't attacking you. I was giving suggestions. While it is your opinion that goblins should be here it is my opinion that they should not be. As for the rest of your tangent, it has nothing to do with this deck nor is it anything I care about. If you wish to ramble on about incoherent things we have private messaging for that.


Continuing on! I'm really not feeling Howling Mine for this deck. Every time I draw it I wish it was something else so maybe Resounding Thunder? I'm also running 2 less lands then the sample deck list and haven't had any land problems yet so I'm thinking 24 is a tad excessive.

[panda]

Goblin Chieftain makes it resilient to fallout effects, magmaspray for the mirror and the r/w and also ww,vamps,jund,grixis,bant, its just a very revelent burn that should be used instead of a bolt instead. dragon fodder chump block or a turn 4 with a bushwaker is pretty dope, especially if there is a lord out on the field. fetch land to thin it out more and greater change of a threat to be drawn.

[MonsieurJuneau]

Originally Posted by panda

Goblin Chieftain makes it resilient to fallout effects, magmaspray for the mirror and the r/w and also ww,vamps,jund,grixis,bant, its just a very revelent burn that should be used instead of a bolt instead. dragon fodder chump block or a turn 4 with a bushwaker is pretty dope, especially if there is a lord out on the field. fetch land to thin it out more and greater change of a threat to be drawn.

Actually, if you only have 1 Goblin Chieftain out, it doesn't protect your creatures from Pyroclasm/Volcanic Fallout/Jund Charm. You need multiples to build up resilience against those sweepers.

[taj_gooba]

Again, I suggested, if you want more threats so be it. I think you can throw more cards weairng red than any other color. Thus you will benefit more from Howling Mine. I will not fight you more on this. I agree that more threats is faster. But, not all games draw out to a turn 4-5 kill. Howling gives a back up plan. 'nough said. Run it the way you choose. Try gobos. They lay in wait in this meta. As I said, Pyroclams and Fallout are on their way out . If 60% of the players run Jund, would you main deck those cards? Hell no you wouldn't! trust me, Gobos is faster than Boros and suffers only from lingering mindset.

MonsieurJuneau is correct. pyro and fallout kill gobos. my argument is: why will people continue to play those cards?? They helped against faeries.. and now against a half cocked deck called Boros.
Gobos is faster than any deck out there.

[panda]

true sir ! Volcanic Fallout is very difficult to cast turn 3 on the play for most decks such as there running min of 3 colors and Jund Charm is 3 colors biggest problem for most decks. and Pyroclasm who runs that ?
this will be the deck to beat coming next moth when ppl see how powerful it is, and it can recover incredibly fast and also pretty easy to build.

[subrosian]

Originally Posted by panda

true sir ! Volcanic Fallout is very difficult to cast turn 3 on the play for most decks such as there running min of 3 colors and Jund Charm is 3 colors biggest problem for most decks. and Pyroclasm who runs that ?
this will be the deck to beat coming next moth when ppl see how powerful it is, and it can recover incredibly fast and also pretty easy to build.

Some of the developing RB aggro decks are maindecking 4 Earthquake and 4 Volcanic Fallout. If aggro continues to dominate tournaments, it's likely you'll encounter more of that sort of play.

[taj_gooba]

So right sir! and lets pretend Gobos dosent exist. Then there is Boros. Fail. Inconsistent.
Everybody, let's build deck against jund, mid-range and control! Opps! I forgot about Gobos or Boros! These decks could sweep in a situation like that. Gobos helps define the meta. Forget and you will lose to it.

[baxter]

Taj: the problem I've seen Gobbos have is that if I can sweep and follow it up with an x/4, you cant come back in time. Not having any help but Howling Mine will not allow "recovery" in any way that people normally take the term to mean. This deck can win turn 3 or 4 consistently but anything that keeps a board presence starting turn 2 and can keep it coming will be dropping bigger, better cards.
That being said, hastey beats sucks, agreed :P As a Jund player it sucks to tap out to sweep to have 2-8 swinging at me the following turn.

[gigafish]

k lets stop with the incoherent rambling, its dumb.

zektar shrine expedition?

Seems like it can add a blocker if needed and can hit for as much as appeal if needed.