Jhoira's one of those generals everyone thinks is broken - but no one seems to mind that much when I swear I won't suspend 5 fatties and cast Obliterate, Jokulhaups, etc - and, quite frankly, I wanted to do something more ...oblique with Jhoira. In fact, the deck functions fine without Jhoira, but using her to suspend certain things doesn't create huge problems and in fact sometimes allows me to do hilarious things with table politics.
Case in point: I suspended Thought Reflection and Wheel of Fortune. For some reason, everyone got all excited about 7 new cards...but Niv-mizzet freaked out because he knows what giving me 14 cards will do. So everyone else at the table killed Niv-Mizzet so they could get the cards...and then I just crushed everyone that was left once I got the draw. fun stuff
The Primary Object of the deck is to do the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Just yell/sing "Let's do the Time Warp again!!!"
Any tweaks or suggestions would be welcome, though I think it's fairly solid for the time being. Various subtleties after the deck...
"On the fence" Cards in the deck currently
1) Niv-Mizzet, the firemind. He's cool and all, but rarely does much for me. I'll admit he is a cool additional win-con with future sight - top - sculpter though.
2) Trinket Mage - I know, he gets top, sol ring, and junk like that. But...after that he's pretty lame at best. Not at all sure he's worth a spot here. I've got other ways to dig for Top and Top really isn't vital to this deck, it's just nice to have.
Random things recently dropped or tested and didn't really like
1) Mirari - just not quite helpful enough, costing 5 is also an issue
2) paradox haze - I mean, yeah, it's really good, but with mana crypt it feels like burning. Also, my group has been doing planechase EDH...and double upkeep is REALLY god-awful for so many planes.
3) Palinchron - simply not built around generating infinite mana with this guy. The only way I can do it currently is with tolarian academy and it's just not worth the slot for the time being.
4) Mana Flare - too dangerous, oftentimes helps my opponents more than myself.
5) Detritivore - seems really sick with jhoira and being able to destroy some lands for cheap, but the deck is packed as it is, and I'm not sure I need the effect.
6) Memnarch - (1) I don't make infinite mana (2) people play bribery, acquire, etc (3) bad idea.
7) Sundering Titan - not really in the mood to be incredibly asinine with this card. Play it and then everyone flips out and goes after you. It's just not worth the hate it generates. It's not like I have a sea of blockers.
8) Nucklavee - too expensive for what it does, further, I want to get a blue sorcery back (Time Warp, et al), so it's not helpful.
9) Tidespout Tyrant - I like it, but almost strictly "win-more"
10) Dominus of Fealty - is really fun tech, but it just draws tons and tons of hate.
Cards to Test
1) Mind's Eye - really want to stick this in here somewhere, more draw would be nice.
2) Insurrection - well, I can recur it, and it might be funny as a surprise a couple times. Want to give it a shot.
3) Reverberate - another fork. I'm not sure I really need it at this point but I should at least check that out.
4) Eternal Domination - really beyond mildly hilarious. At least it will be funny.
5) Thada Adel, Acquisitor - stops other annoying combos. Problem - everyone will try to steal this to take my artifacts more often than I'll get good use out of it. At least that's what will happen after they see me play it once.
List of a few of the various combinations
(1) Infinite turns via kiki-jiki + return sorcery effect + time warps
(2) academy ruins + mindslaver lockdown
(3) planar portal + beacon of tomorrows
(4) crystal shard / arcane lab + izzet chronarch (anarchist with shard only) + time warp
(5) future sight, top, sculpter combo (add niv-mizzet for more fun)
(6) kiki-jiki - pestermite
I really want to find a way to get the dominus of fealty and memnarch in there somehow if only for humor value though I'm torn on what comes out. I definitely agree on the Dominus as cool tech, it's sort of cool to steal all sorts of useful stuff ranging from someone else's Arcanis to stealing their Platinum Angel.
Any further tweaks or suggestions would be appreciated.
The deck works exceptionally well provided you can politic your way into not getting bum rushed by everyone at the table in the 1st couple turns. The suspension of extra turns, thought reflection, etc with jhoira has worked really well because no one gets scared of extra turns like they would if they saw 4-5 big fatties. Why, I don't know, but the extra turns are definitely more dangerous.
I am currently running the "lame" Jhoira edh deck, and am also trying to sideboard a few cards when I play with a certain play group. One card I suggest would be Insurrection.
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Dark Confident: Heh isn't that (Panoptic Mirror) banned? What you do mean you imprint Timewarp? i imprint my foot on your face!
Cool - I was thinking about tossing that one in for larger games. "So, I'll go ahead and take all of your junk and kill you with it" - just in case someone actually shuts down my 4-5 turns engines.
I'll add that to the testing list.
In terms of WWK cards I'm considering
1) Jace the Mind Sculpter - really good, um, especially with Madblind Mountain active.
2) Comet Storm - some burn to finish things off is always pretty fun.
3) Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs - prevents people from wildly swinging in, but it's still a little "meh"
--- and really not sure if I even want to test out anything else.
I'll give some kind of update once I work with some of that junk
In my opinion if you have cash, you are not a bum, you are an adventurer. Bums are poor and eat dead birds on the side of the road cuz they have no other options.
I eat dead birds at the side of the road, they call it KFC over here.
so you should definitly try the enclave chronologist guy from rise of the eldrazi he seems way to good its like your turn my turn your turn my turn your turn my turn if i didnt get the name right hes a blue mythic rare from rise of the eldrazi
Lighthouse Chronologist is the card you're thinking of. He's a major lightning rod, but very very cool for multi-player.
With some topdeck manipulation, Time Sifter is completely broken. You should have lots of huge casting cost stuff for Jhoira to suspend that other players can't win a clash with.
Stich in Time doesn't guaruntee you the extra turn, but for 3 it might be worth risking a coin flip to have a dead card for a chance to take an extra turn for 3.
And if you're willing to skip a turn, and save it for later, time vault it gone but there's this: Magosi the Waterveil. It makes BLUE mana! I like it because you can store a turn on it while your opponent are hating on one another, and then use it when you have stuff suspended and want to hurry them onto the board. Returning to your hand can also be good if you do run cards like Apocalypse, Decree of Annihilation, Obliterate...
I'll be posting my version of Jhoira soon. Hope ya'll get a chance to check it out
I'll try to get on updating the list sometime this week.
I've had this one off to the side for a bit since it was starting to turn into 'I don't care if he looks helpless, he's got 5 cards in hand and can make 10 mana' pretty quickly after I pulled some zaney wins out of nowhere.
I tried doing a Jhoira sans Obliterate build... After one game, once Jhoira began suspending stuff I had 3 turns to live.
Not saying don't try, but she does tend to be an explosive "Hey look, I win!" general.
Well, right - I often don't suspend anything of value.
Or, I'll suspend hilarious stuff for no reason to see what happens. Couple months ago, I suspended Wheel of Fortune + Thought Reflection just to see what would happen. Niv-Mizzet tried to kill me and everyone killed him because they wanted 7 cards. Boy did I teach them why you don't let blue (red) mage draw 14 cards...
I often go without suspending anything on Jhoira or I'll suspend something that's relatively non-threatening by itself. Or I'll just sit Jhoira out on the field with a fist full of cards and leave mana open to suspend in response to threaten suspending in response to removal. I run Jhoira as a decoy a huge amount of the time.
The whole idea here is you don't suspend anything that's remotely threatening unless you have some tricks. Fury Charm to knock out two suspend counters at instant speed...or a way to take a turn or two that people don't expect. If you just suspend and giggle, that's really a bad idea. Even more so if you're playing the obliterate version.
so you should definitly try the enclave chronologist guy from rise of the eldrazi he seems way to good its like your turn my turn your turn my turn your turn my turn if i didnt get the name right hes a blue mythic rare from rise of the eldrazi
Yeah, he's going to need a spot if only because (1) that's hilarious to get extra turns like that and (2) he'll draw out spot removal that might be used on my other little critters.
i personally like to suspend Reality Strobe and use it to bounce things back to my hand for effects that trigger on comes into play or casting, in one of the iterations had grip of chaos and hivemind
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My EDH Decks WUB Zur's Silver Bullets WUB UR Jhoira's Apocalyptic Decree UR
i personally like to suspend Reality Strobe and use it to bounce things back to my hand for effects that trigger on comes into play or casting, in one of the iterations had grip of chaos and hivemind
Yeah, I've actually updated the list (not on the website) and included strobe. Randomly discovered it and the repeatable bounce is pretty solid!
I've ended up deconstructing this for the time being because...well....in 1v1 it's just not optimal and in group settings it often became "frantically search for counterspells and sit on Jhoira to do anything" while someone else wins with a random combo because everyone is too busy focusing on what I might be able to do. Very unfun for everyone. X v 1 isn't what EDH is about.
Yeah, I've actually updated the list (not on the website) and included strobe. Randomly discovered it and the repeatable bounce is pretty solid!
I've ended up deconstructing this for the time being because...well....in 1v1 it's just not optimal and in group settings it often became "frantically search for counterspells and sit on Jhoira to do anything" while someone else wins with a random combo because everyone is too busy focusing on what I might be able to do. Very unfun for everyone. X v 1 isn't what EDH is about.
something i found is very effective is mixing braid of fire, lets you use jhoira's ability during your upkeep while keeping your normal mana open for other spells
i suggest making room for card draw in the deck it makes things work alot smoother Gush is pretty much amazing as is izzet chronarch in my version of the deck i have refined it so i hold big threats off for diplomatic reasons i just show them what i have and make sure they understand the repercussions of the resulting problems
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My EDH Decks WUB Zur's Silver Bullets WUB UR Jhoira's Apocalyptic Decree UR
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Case in point: I suspended Thought Reflection and Wheel of Fortune. For some reason, everyone got all excited about 7 new cards...but Niv-mizzet freaked out because he knows what giving me 14 cards will do. So everyone else at the table killed Niv-Mizzet so they could get the cards...and then I just crushed everyone that was left once I got the draw. fun stuff
The Primary Object of the deck is to do the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Just yell/sing "Let's do the Time Warp again!!!"
Any tweaks or suggestions would be welcome, though I think it's fairly solid for the time being. Various subtleties after the deck...
1 Jhoira of the Ghitu
Soceries
2 Time Warp
3 Capture of Jingzhou
4 Temporal Manipulation
5 Walk the Aeons
6 Time Stretch
7 Beacon of Tomorrows
9 Timetwister
10 Time Spiral
11 Wheel of Fortune
12 Call to Mind
Creatures
13 Willbender
14 Etherium Sculptor
15 Pestermite
16 Trinket Mage
17 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
18 Akroma, Angel of Fury
19 Izzet Chronarch
20 Mnemonic Wall
21 Arcanis the Omnipotent
22 Aeon Chronicler
23 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
24 Magus of the Future
25 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
62 Lighthouse Chronologist
8 Echo Mage
Instants
27 Trickbind
28 Stifle
29 Fury Charm
30 Hinder
31 Mana drain
32 Fork
33 Twincast
34 Force of Will
35 Reiterate
36 Intuition
37 Cryptic command
38 Fact or Fiction
39 Mystical Tutor
40 Impulse
41 Brainstorm
42 Evacuation
43 Capsize
44 Tezzeret the Seeker
59 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts
26 Expedition Map
45 Crystal ball
46 Crystal shard
47 Lotus Bloom
48 Sensei's Divining Top
49 Scroll Rack
50 Planar Portal
51 Memory Jar
52 Mindslaver
53 Mana Crypt
54 Gilded Lotus
55 Sol Ring
56 Coalition Relic
57 Fellwar Stone
58 Nevinyrral's Disk
Enchantments
60 Mystic Remora
61 Rhystic Study
63 Future Sight
64 Thought Reflection
Lands
65 Academy Ruins
66 Volcanic Island
67 Steam Vents
68 Riptide Laboratory
69 Tolarian Academy
70 Scalding Tarn
71 Vesuva
72 Shivan Reef
73 Cascade Bluffs
74 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
75 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
76 Remote Isle
77 Lonely Sandbar
78 Forgotten Cave
79 Reliquary Tower
80 Deserted temple
81 Tolaria West
82 Madblind Mountain
"On the fence" Cards in the deck currently
1) Niv-Mizzet, the firemind. He's cool and all, but rarely does much for me. I'll admit he is a cool additional win-con with future sight - top - sculpter though.
2) Trinket Mage - I know, he gets top, sol ring, and junk like that. But...after that he's pretty lame at best. Not at all sure he's worth a spot here. I've got other ways to dig for Top and Top really isn't vital to this deck, it's just nice to have.
Random things recently dropped or tested and didn't really like
1) Mirari - just not quite helpful enough, costing 5 is also an issue
2) paradox haze - I mean, yeah, it's really good, but with mana crypt it feels like burning. Also, my group has been doing planechase EDH...and double upkeep is REALLY god-awful for so many planes.
3) Palinchron - simply not built around generating infinite mana with this guy. The only way I can do it currently is with tolarian academy and it's just not worth the slot for the time being.
4) Mana Flare - too dangerous, oftentimes helps my opponents more than myself.
5) Detritivore - seems really sick with jhoira and being able to destroy some lands for cheap, but the deck is packed as it is, and I'm not sure I need the effect.
6) Memnarch - (1) I don't make infinite mana (2) people play bribery, acquire, etc (3) bad idea.
7) Sundering Titan - not really in the mood to be incredibly asinine with this card. Play it and then everyone flips out and goes after you. It's just not worth the hate it generates. It's not like I have a sea of blockers.
8) Nucklavee - too expensive for what it does, further, I want to get a blue sorcery back (Time Warp, et al), so it's not helpful.
9) Tidespout Tyrant - I like it, but almost strictly "win-more"
10) Dominus of Fealty - is really fun tech, but it just draws tons and tons of hate.
Cards to Test
1) Mind's Eye - really want to stick this in here somewhere, more draw would be nice.
2) Insurrection - well, I can recur it, and it might be funny as a surprise a couple times. Want to give it a shot.
3) Reverberate - another fork. I'm not sure I really need it at this point but I should at least check that out.
4) Eternal Domination - really beyond mildly hilarious. At least it will be funny.
5) Thada Adel, Acquisitor - stops other annoying combos. Problem - everyone will try to steal this to take my artifacts more often than I'll get good use out of it. At least that's what will happen after they see me play it once.
List of a few of the various combinations
(1) Infinite turns via kiki-jiki + return sorcery effect + time warps
(2) academy ruins + mindslaver lockdown
(3) planar portal + beacon of tomorrows
(4) crystal shard / arcane lab + izzet chronarch (anarchist with shard only) + time warp
(5) future sight, top, sculpter combo (add niv-mizzet for more fun)
(6) kiki-jiki - pestermite
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
I really want to find a way to get the dominus of fealty and memnarch in there somehow if only for humor value though I'm torn on what comes out. I definitely agree on the Dominus as cool tech, it's sort of cool to steal all sorts of useful stuff ranging from someone else's Arcanis to stealing their Platinum Angel.
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
Strifle, Trickbind, Dragon Tyrant, Swerve, Willbender, Etherium Sculpter, Capsize, Evacuation, Terferi, mage of zhalfir.
Any further tweaks or suggestions would be appreciated.
The deck works exceptionally well provided you can politic your way into not getting bum rushed by everyone at the table in the 1st couple turns. The suspension of extra turns, thought reflection, etc with jhoira has worked really well because no one gets scared of extra turns like they would if they saw 4-5 big fatties. Why, I don't know, but the extra turns are definitely more dangerous.
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
In terms of adds - Definitely going to be - prophetic bolt and + new Jace when WWK comes out.
Any other comments?
Nuck really hasn't done a lot for me in testing, doesn't get what I want - and I don't much care about recurring Wheel of Fortune.
Scrivener might be a cheaper alternative if I really decide I want to recur instants, though I'm not sure it's necessary yet.
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
I'll add that to the testing list.
In terms of WWK cards I'm considering
1) Jace the Mind Sculpter - really good, um, especially with Madblind Mountain active.
2) Comet Storm - some burn to finish things off is always pretty fun.
3) Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs - prevents people from wildly swinging in, but it's still a little "meh"
--- and really not sure if I even want to test out anything else.
I'll give some kind of update once I work with some of that junk
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
URGIntet EDHGRU
WUBRGMy StackGRBUW
Currently Playing
STANDARD:
UBBLUE/BLACK CONTROLUB
ETERNAL CENTAL BEST ETERNAL SITE ON THE WEB
Or a "Hey look, kill me!"
With some topdeck manipulation, Time Sifter is completely broken. You should have lots of huge casting cost stuff for Jhoira to suspend that other players can't win a clash with.
Stich in Time doesn't guaruntee you the extra turn, but for 3 it might be worth risking a coin flip to have a dead card for a chance to take an extra turn for 3.
And if you're willing to skip a turn, and save it for later, time vault it gone but there's this: Magosi the Waterveil. It makes BLUE mana! I like it because you can store a turn on it while your opponent are hating on one another, and then use it when you have stuff suspended and want to hurry them onto the board. Returning to your hand can also be good if you do run cards like Apocalypse, Decree of Annihilation, Obliterate...
I'll be posting my version of Jhoira soon. Hope ya'll get a chance to check it out
~Hangman
Definitely, though, of course, I've not really updated this deck in a long time (not since zendikar...).
Mnemonic Wall is also strictly better than Anarchist...
I'll try to get on updating the list sometime this week.
I've had this one off to the side for a bit since it was starting to turn into 'I don't care if he looks helpless, he's got 5 cards in hand and can make 10 mana' pretty quickly after I pulled some zaney wins out of nowhere.
Well, right - I often don't suspend anything of value.
Or, I'll suspend hilarious stuff for no reason to see what happens. Couple months ago, I suspended Wheel of Fortune + Thought Reflection just to see what would happen. Niv-Mizzet tried to kill me and everyone killed him because they wanted 7 cards. Boy did I teach them why you don't let blue (red) mage draw 14 cards...
I often go without suspending anything on Jhoira or I'll suspend something that's relatively non-threatening by itself. Or I'll just sit Jhoira out on the field with a fist full of cards and leave mana open to suspend in response to threaten suspending in response to removal. I run Jhoira as a decoy a huge amount of the time.
The whole idea here is you don't suspend anything that's remotely threatening unless you have some tricks. Fury Charm to knock out two suspend counters at instant speed...or a way to take a turn or two that people don't expect. If you just suspend and giggle, that's really a bad idea. Even more so if you're playing the obliterate version.
Yeah, he's going to need a spot if only because (1) that's hilarious to get extra turns like that and (2) he'll draw out spot removal that might be used on my other little critters.
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
WUB Zur's Silver Bullets WUB
UR Jhoira's Apocalyptic Decree UR
Yeah, I've actually updated the list (not on the website) and included strobe. Randomly discovered it and the repeatable bounce is pretty solid!
I've ended up deconstructing this for the time being because...well....in 1v1 it's just not optimal and in group settings it often became "frantically search for counterspells and sit on Jhoira to do anything" while someone else wins with a random combo because everyone is too busy focusing on what I might be able to do. Very unfun for everyone. X v 1 isn't what EDH is about.
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
something i found is very effective is mixing braid of fire, lets you use jhoira's ability during your upkeep while keeping your normal mana open for other spells
i suggest making room for card draw in the deck it makes things work alot smoother Gush is pretty much amazing as is izzet chronarch in my version of the deck i have refined it so i hold big threats off for diplomatic reasons i just show them what i have and make sure they understand the repercussions of the resulting problems
WUB Zur's Silver Bullets WUB
UR Jhoira's Apocalyptic Decree UR