Meh-in the end, at least I won't be lynched while I'm at school. Unless anyone feels like pulling another MoT or SorryGuy "accidental" lynching like what happened in 8-bit. This is my second mafia.
Why did you claim so early?
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Dude, no one was even voting you. And you claim. That makes little sense. And a bad claim/ Throw in the end day and I do not think we are voting for pressure, we are voting for the kill. I mean.....What can we pressure him for? AD can you confirm him mafia?
And what about the name thing. Jon M. Smith? Hm.....
Vote:Xyre
I asked for AD to confirm. That is a reference to High School Mafia. Sorry. I have little less to say at this point.
At this point, I'm going to throw a Vote: Xyre out there, because:
Unprovoked claim
Vanilla claim
No Lynch wagon
Claim feels... wrong
Overdefensive
All added up, that spells out scum to me. Particularly the unprovoked vanilla claim. At best, he's a townie who doesn't know what he's doing. At worst, he's a mafia or SK. It seems either way that keeping him around is more dangerous to the town than lynching him.
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Ambivalent owner of nan's soul. Proud worshipper of TFE.
well, since I'm being annoyed about posting, here's my current take on the game: Xyre claimed way too early, with much too little pressure. We shouldn't rush a lynch. One question we should ask is this: Xyre claimed some random guy that armlx made up, does anyone else have a role name that isn't a reference to something else?
Other than that, the game has been complete nonsense thus far.
Look, I was assigned an absolutely vanilla character. Apparently, I was sucked in while watching Reality Television. Happy now? I'm useless. There's no reason to vote for me because I don't pose any threat. I'm just a vanilla townie!
It really sucks to have that happen to you if you're telling the truth, because claiming vanilla is a really easy false claim for scum to make (very small to no risk of being counterclaimed), and so its sorta scummy to claim it, expecially when your role is hard to counterclaim as well. Based on flavor, I doubt that Armlx would assign someone just a completely made up, vanilla role. Although it would be random.
Quote from Xyre Claiming is what I use as a safety valve-personal opinion. Lynch me if you want, but you will regret it when you discover I was right. FOS Jobie for leading the "Lynch Xyre" mob.[/QUOTE »
Being so defensive isn't really helping. It looks like you're trying to deflect suspicion onto Jobie and myself.
Try and defend yourself, rather than blindly attacking your attackers.
For reference, the main points against you:
Why did you vote no lynch, especially considering that if I recall correctly, someone did it - and was called out for it - in 8-bit, which you played in?
Why did you claim with so little (ie no) pressure?
[QUOTE=Xyre Oh, sorry, my mistake. Jobie's not the only ringleader of this hit parade. FOS Rhinocero. It's been two games now that I've been with you, and you're really starting to get on my nerves. Stop pointing fingers and calling me out for scapegoating.
If you're scummy, ima attack you. If you're not scummy, I'm not. That's how you play mafia. Remember, this is my third game, I'm not actually that much more experienced than you are.
Claiming is what I use as a safety valve-personal opinion. Lynch me if you want, but you will regret it when you discover I was right. FOS Jobie for leading the "Lynch Xyre" mob.
Being so defensive isn't really helping. It looks like you're trying to deflect suspicion onto Jobie and myself.
Try and defend yourself, rather than blindly attacking your attackers.
For reference, the main points against you:
Why did you vote no lynch, especially considering that if I recall correctly, someone did it - and was called out for it - in 8-bit, which you played in?
Why did you claim with so little (ie no) pressure?
Quote from Xyre »
Oh, sorry, my mistake. Jobie's not the only ringleader of this hit parade. FOS Rhinocero. It's been two games now that I've been with you, and you're really starting to get on my nerves. Stop pointing fingers and calling me out for scapegoating.
If you're scummy, ima attack you. If you're not scummy, I'm not. That's how you play mafia. Remember, this is my third game, I'm not actually that much more experienced than you are.
At this point, I'm going to throw a Vote: Xyre out there, because:
Unprovoked claim
Vanilla claim
No Lynch wagon
Claim feels... wrong
Overdefensive
All added up, that spells out scum to me. Particularly the unprovoked vanilla claim. At best, he's a townie who doesn't know what he's doing. At worst, he's a mafia or SK. It seems either way that keeping him around is more dangerous to the town than lynching him.
Don't ask me why he did it, but I'm serious on this one. I know what I'm doing, and I have reasons for claiming. At the very least, this gets it out on the table, which will make me a) not a death target, because now everyone knows I'm harmless, and b) I won't be lynched. So what if my claim isn't real? THE HOST IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO MAKE THIS GAME THE SAME AS THE LAST ONE. SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE WERE NO VANILLA CHARACTERS IN THE FIRST RANDOM MAFIA DOES UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES MEAN THAT THE SAME RULES APPLY TO ARMLX, WHO IS NOT CARRION PIGEONS (pigeons hosted the first one, right?).
*end vent* Look, I understand why this looks suspicious, especially because it makes me look normal, but I have significant reasons for revealing my identity. I did the same thing in 8-bit, and that's what I do. At the very least, nobody probably remembers why you voted for me in the first place.:p
So stop attacking me for simply saying who I am. Think of it this way-that's one fewer person who could be mafia. And that's good, right?
Look, show of faith, because I'm just as confused as most of you: how about everyone claim Real, Fictional, or Generic? That will help everyone understand what's going on. I'm Generic (i.e. doesn't exist and isn't a known Fictional character).
Don't ask me why he did it, but I'm serious on this one. I know what I'm doing, and I have reasons for claiming. At the very least, this gets it out on the table, which will make me a) not a death target, because now everyone knows I'm harmless, and b) I won't be lynched. So what if my claim isn't real? THE HOST IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO MAKE THIS GAME THE SAME AS THE LAST ONE. SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE WERE NO VANILLA CHARACTERS IN THE FIRST RANDOM MAFIA DOES UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES MEAN THAT THE SAME RULES APPLY TO ARMLX, WHO IS NOT CARRION PIGEONS (pigeons hosted the first one, right?).
*end vent* Look, I understand why this looks suspicious, especially because it makes me look normal, but I have significant reasons for revealing my identity. I did the same thing in 8-bit, and that's what I do. At the very least, nobody probably remembers why you voted for me in the first place.:p
So stop attacking me for simply saying who I am. Think of it this way-that's one fewer person who could be mafia. And that's good, right?
You are TOO scummy I was going to hold back but now I'm more convinced your not town. vote xyre. We have no insurance your town, and if you aren’t Mafia the fact that you wont be targeted at night is BAD for the town because now we could lose a power role instead of a vanilla townie.
Look, show of faith, because I'm just as confused as most of you: how about everyone claim Real, Fictional, or Generic? That will help everyone understand what's going on. I'm Generic (i.e. doesn't exist and isn't a known Fictional character).
Wish I would have seen this before posting. I feel no desire to help the mafia any further in developing false claims. Are you trying to help them out before getting lynched?
Sending out prods to those with less then 5 posts. Leilani is the exception due to his current circumstances, but may be prodded at a later time.
Her, actually. I'm a female, but hey, i'm just like one of the guys IRL, so why not here too? :tongue2: and thanks for the understanding.
Quote from silicon »
Other than that, the game has been complete nonsense thus far.
I agree.
Alright, so after reading the 15-ish pages of this insanity that you people call a mafia game.. [ ].....
.....I really have no clue who to vote for, if I should even vote at this point.
I DO think that Xyre [sorry if I totally mutilate your name] is a bit suspicious, 'cause who claims on day 1, ESPECIALLY when you've got no votes on you? [at least, I don't think he had any votes on him when he claimed..] Really now. No Lynch is generally a bad idea on day 1, at least from my experience.
For now, FOS: Xyre for all the reasons people have already said. [I see no reason to repeat them again, unless someone would like me to.]
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*sigh* Xyre, I made five points about why I voted for you, not one. Five. You quoted all five, but only referred to one. Allow me to break my points down for you.
Quote from swinkee »
1. Unprovoked claim
You claim without provocation. You had one vote, I believe, and you claim. That's not a good move. It's as though you wanted to test a claim to see how it would go. I know the feeling, but I've only ever had it as scum.
Quote from swinkee »
2. Vanilla claim
This seems to be what you think the entire case against you is. Not true. However, a vanilla claim does not help the town. Allow me to demonstrate: 12 players, 3 mafia, 1 doc, 1 cop. One person claims vanilla, town has 11 people to sort through to find mafia, mafia has 8 people to sort through for cop and doc. If the claimer is as they say, town has only slightly greater than 1/4 chance to find scum. If claimer is scum, town has less than 1/5 chance to find scum. As there is nothing to test, this claim is easy for scum to make.
Quote from swinkee »
3. No Lynch wagon
I can think of few situations where no lynch is better than a lynch: 1 mafia, 1 town, 1 sk left at end of game (prisoner's dilemma); all town is cops or copish; no lynch means instant town win. I think I had another, but I don't remember what it was. Notice that day one is not there.
Quote from swinkee »
4. Claim feels... wrong
This one's just gut instinct. Nothing else to say with this.
Quote from swinkee »
5. Overdefensive
You don't seem to be taking suspicion very well. Your defense (claiming) was unecessary, and all told, you look like a pretty safe scum to me.
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Wow Xyre seems really scummy since he did at least 5 things wrong. (Great list Swinkee). I would vote but I want discussion to keep up since I think this is really helping us, so vote count please. If Xyre is not at like 10 votes where the next gets him lynched I will not vote but if he is at like 8 I will.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
I may regret saying this, but I'm begining to think we've got another MoT style lynch on our hands, except we lack a Puzzle-like (or Puzzle himself) defending Xyre. (Crap, I just psuedo defended him...oh well). My vote remains on him.
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Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
I may regret saying this, but I'm begining to think we've got another MoT style lynch on our hands, except we lack a Puzzle-like (or Puzzle himself) defending Xyre. (Crap, I just psuedo defended him...oh well). My vote remains on him.
That could be, but that lynch was primarily based, IIRC, on the insanity of his posts and the inability to tell what he was really saying.
Quote from creampuffeater »
Wow Xyre seems really scummy since he did at least 5 things wrong. (Great list Swinkee). I would vote but I want discussion to keep up since I think this is really helping us, so vote count please. If Xyre is not at like 10 votes where the next gets him lynched I will not vote but if he is at like 8 I will.
Okay, fine. Allow me to answer your questions, Swinkee.
1. I claimed because everyone jumped on me for voting No Lynch. I didn't see any common trends, and I would prefer to wait for night to get some information. Voting No Lynch would help ensure that nothing unwanted happened during the day. I still have no suspicions, so I'm standing my ground on my vote. It's all personal preference.
2. Well, sorry, but I recieved a vanilla role. I can't claim anything else without lying.
3. Sorry again. I asked who was with me, but I didn't want to start a wagon. Azrael jumped on an invisible wagon. It doesn't look like a wagon to me-if anything, this entire trend of "Vote Xyre" is a wagon! There are two people on "No Lynch", and I trust Azrael enough to have enough judgement to choose what he wants.
4. Instincts aren't reasons. I'm going myself. If you watched 8-bit go out, you would notice that I did the same thing. It's not n00bish tendencies-it's just how I roll.
5. Personal approach to bandwagons. Sorry, but that's my action.
So I've responded to your points. I either a) have no other choice but to claim that way, b) am going of personal strategy, or c) haven't done anything at all. Keep voting, but you won't get anywhere. Notes for individual players, except for swinkee, who already got his explanation (try reading them all, though: I make some pretty general statements throughout which may assist other people):
SorryGuy and MoT (together): You both know how this works. So why are you joining the mob mentality? You obviously don't trust me (at least SorryGuy doesn't) but you drew suspicion to yourselves in 8-bit, and you were both townies. So how about backing me up?
Magician of Thought (personally): Thank you for taking my side on this. I owe you a bottle of wine.
SorryGuy (personally): History repeats itself. Don't point fingers at me when you were in this same situation last time.
Creampuffeater: That was fast. I've already pointed out how Swinkee is incorrect, so why are you bandwagoning. You know what, just FOS Creampuffeater. You're falling for the bandwagon, so I'm thinking you have malicious intentions.
Leilani: I think you're just misinterpreting this. Again, see the explanation above.
chamber: Sheesh. You think I would start that to gain anything? How could asking for type of character help to do anything but exonerate me? Good job at proposing useful information to back up claims, by the way. You could actually TRY to pay attention to what I've done to protect myself.
Rhinocero: You're an instigator; the first rock thrown, the first angry voice that starts the riot. You get away with this too much. Try to be nicer, please.
Silicon: You're right-this is nonsense. Exactly why I'm going No Lynch.
Fayul: The persuader. Again, you don't say anything except to vote. Give me three good reasons why I need to go that HAVEN'T been refuted, and I'll listen.
Azrael: Why did you follow me, and how did you get away from falling into this abyss? I'm confused about how I'm the fallguy.
Axelrod: Sure, fine. Bandwagons are bad. So please, everyone, have a reason before you follow me. I'm not willing to be the leader of blind sheep. And thanks for making random votes on me. Next time, give me a reason.
Sgdre: Sez you. I'm going my way-I don't care what you think helps the mafia.
Jobie: Not much to say, except to review what I've said. Thanks for backing off somewhat.
Hawkeye: I've tried answering your questions. Thanks for staying away temporarily. Just try to get where I'm coming from.
CropCircle: Again, THERE IS NO REASON WHY I NEED TO BE A REAL CHARACTER! YOU'RE DRAWING CONCLUSIONS FROM A GAME WHICH WAS NOT THE SAME!
Puzzle: Not much to say, except bluffing daykills isn't working.
Okay, that's everyone from the last few pages. Please try to understand where I'm coming from. If I'm gone by tomorrow, let me say this: To everyone voting for me: You're wrong. Sorry to say it that way, but it had to be said. I'm town, I'm vanilla, and that's how it will stand. So please back off.
If I'm gone soon, let me say, armlx, nice job with hosting. Let the chaos begin. If this is the town, then I predict a redux of 8-bit: killing townies for no reason. Good luck to everyone, although I guess the mafia won't have much trouble, considering where this is going.
*Xyre gives Magician of Thought a bottle of wine.
Hmm...I goto work, and then this. I completly belive that Xyre is BSing us all. I read the "Jon M. Smith" thing and laughed for a min. As most people know, John Smith is the most common english name in history, and it being vinilla would make sense, for a bs claim. I think that he was BS claiming Jon smith, and it trying to have some kind of idiotic plan to either root out mafia, or some kind of power role. so I will SLAPofSuspicion: Xyre.
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*Xyre slaps WellOfLostGnomes.
Heh. None of you get it. Oh well. I had fun...I guess. I'd quote armlx if I thought I'd get away with it, without being modkilled. May I, armlx? Or must I roil in the town's disbelief?
Hmm...I goto work, and then this. I completly belive that Xyre is BSing us all. I read the "Jon M. Smith" thing and laughed for a min. As most people know, John Smith is the most common english name in history, and it being vinilla would make sense, for a bs claim. I think that he was BS claiming Jon smith, and it trying to have some kind of idiotic plan to either root out mafia, or some kind of power role. so I will SLAPofSuspicion: Xyre.
Taking a page from my book and pointing out information that shouldn't be eh? Now, if he’s Mafia he can claim a power role and try and bait one of ours into the open. Not that he couldn't have done it before, but he may not have thought of claiming a power role. And if its the first by pointing out that it was a plan you could have ruined it. (In your defense I don’t see how this could be some sort of genius plan). fos wolg
Taking a page from my book and pointing out information that shouldn't be eh? Now, if he’s Mafia he can claim a power role and try and bait one of ours into the open. Not that he couldn't have done it before, but he may not have thought of claiming a power role. And if its the first by pointing out that it was a plan you could have ruined it. (In your defense I don’t see how this could be some sort of genius plan). fos wolg
Taking a page from my book and pointing out information that shouldn't be eh? Now, if he’s Mafia he can claim a power role and try and bait one of ours into the open. Not that he couldn't have done it before, but he may not have thought of claiming a power role. And if its the first by pointing out that it was a plan you could have ruined it. (In your defense I don’t see how this could be some sort of genius plan). fos wolg (i don't know why it is all bolded)
Okay, fine. Allow me to answer your questions, Swinkee.
1. I claimed because everyone jumped on me for voting No Lynch. I didn't see any common trends, and I would prefer to wait for night to get some information. Voting No Lynch would help ensure that nothing unwanted happened during the day. I still have no suspicions, so I'm standing my ground on my vote. It's all personal preference.
2. Well, sorry, but I recieved a vanilla role. I can't claim anything else without lying.
3. Sorry again. I asked who was with me, but I didn't want to start a wagon. Azrael jumped on an invisible wagon. It doesn't look like a wagon to me-if anything, this entire trend of "Vote Xyre" is a wagon! There are two people on "No Lynch", and I trust Azrael enough to have enough judgement to choose what he wants.
4. Instincts aren't reasons. I'm going myself. If you watched 8-bit go out, you would notice that I did the same thing. It's not n00bish tendencies-it's just how I roll.
5. Personal approach to bandwagons. Sorry, but that's my action.
So I've responded to your points. I either a) have no other choice but to claim that way, b) am going of personal strategy, or c) haven't done anything at all. Keep voting, but you won't get anywhere.
Sorry, man, but I still think that the available evidence makes you look like you are scum.
I guess its something that can't be refuted except by saying yes it is vs. no it isn't.
Quote from Xyre »
Rhinocero: You're an instigator; the first rock thrown, the first angry voice that starts the riot. You get away with this too much. Try to be nicer, please.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to call them like I see them.
I'm not trying to bandwagon randomly; I'm calling you on this one because you look scummy.
I'm sorry if I'm being mean; I'm just trying to help the town out here.
Quote from Xyre »
Azrael: Why did you follow me, and how did you get away from falling into this abyss? I'm confused about how I'm the fallguy.
I thought Az' vote was sort of a joke, looking at it.
Quote from Xyre »
Axelrod: Sure, fine. Bandwagons are bad. So please, everyone, have a reason before you follow me. I'm not willing to be the leader of blind sheep. And thanks for making random votes on me. Next time, give me a reason.
I have stated the reason that I'm voting for you.
Quote from Xyre »
CropCircle: Again, THERE IS NO REASON WHY I NEED TO BE A REAL CHARACTER! YOU'RE DRAWING CONCLUSIONS FROM A GAME WHICH WAS NOT THE SAME!
I agree that you being so vanilla makes your claim doubtful, but not because Armlx didn't do it; rather, because it is something that seems unlikely in this game.
@ Chamber: I was saying that he might be a basic town attempting to root out mafia, or a mafia attempting to root out a power role.
After post #236 I think that Xyre is either really truthful about being basic, or that he is attempting to look truthful betting agaist odds that say that Armix wouldn't respond to that without him actually qouting it. Armix cannot confirm his role in the open forum, the only thing he can do is modkill Xyre if he actually quotes his role...If Xyre does quote his role and get's modkilled, regardless of what his role says, he is obv. not pro-town.
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@ Chamber: I was saying that he might be a basic town attempting to root out mafia, or a mafia attempting to root out a power role.
After post #236 I think that Xyre is either really truthful about being basic, or that he is attempting to look truthful betting agaist odds that say that Armix wouldn't respond to that without him actually qouting it. Armix cannot confirm his role in the open forum, the only thing he can do is modkill Xyre if he actually quotes his role...If Xyre does quote his role and get's modkilled, regardless of what his role says, he is obv. not pro-town.
miss read your original post to mean you thought he was trying to root out Mafia, or was a power role.
miss read your original post to mean you thought he was trying to root out Mafia, or was a power role.
I see now. I miss read your original post to mean you thought he was trying to rout out Mafia, or was a power role.
(Didn't copy whole post from word after I used spell check.)
Thanks for the tenative vote of confidence, WoLG. I forgot to post on your behavior, because in the last five pages, you've only been observant. Take that as a compliment.
Thanks for the tenative vote of confidence, WoLG. I forgot to post on your behavior, because in the last five pages, you've only been observant. Take that as a compliment.
[Is confused]Tenative vote of confidence? Posting on what behavior?(Yeah, working a 7 hour shift is Tech! {Would you like to add chips and a drink to make that a fresh value meal?})
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Just die Xyre. Please just die. You are being so defensive it makes it worse for you. Then you prove you are not just a bad player but also scum when you ask for charecter information. Good job trying to trcik a few people into helping your scum pals as you die but no one is that stupid I hope.
As for helping you because I also screwed up in the last game I played, why would I do that? Even though I was town I had even said I would have voted for me had I been in your guy's situation. I screwed up and deserved a lynch. You do too. If anything I incourage doing so now.
Also as a wanring to I have been getting this game confused with High School for two reasons:
Similiar Player Base
And the fact I can not say what I want about that game because I dead and currently we kind of hae similiar situations.
So sorry if I post anything screwed up. With that, XYre, would you like to sell out any of your scum pals as you die?
Actually, I think Xyre's claim is relatively solid: at least, I think it would make sense.
Calling for no lynch, however, is such a scummy activity that it cannot be overlooked.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Unvote. Guys, we really, really need to slow this down. There's too much momentum building way too fast for me to comfortable with this, and I'm worried that xyre seems to be genuinely inexperienced.
There's no rush, so let's take the time to get some more in-depth analysis here. He made the mistake of voting no lynch, and then was frightened by 3-5 consecutive attacks, and claimed slightly early. That's incriminating, but not enough to auto-lynch him.
Unvote. Guys, we really, really need to slow this down. There's too much momentum building way too fast for me to comfortable with this, and I'm worried that xyre seems to be genuinely inexperienced.
There's no rush, so let's take the time to get some more in-depth analysis here. He made the mistake of voting no lynch, and then was frightened by 3-5 consecutive attacks, and claimed slightly early. That's incriminating, but not enough to auto-lynch him.
All that is probably good enough for a lynch but I do give him newbie credit. Regardless this post more or less sealed the deal for me:
Look, show of faith, because I'm just as confused as most of you: how about everyone claim Real, Fictional, or Generic? That will help everyone understand what's going on. I'm Generic (i.e. doesn't exist and isn't a known Fictional character).
I agree that some good discussion can be had today before a lynch I do believe that Xyre is today's lynch, eventully at least.
Unvote. Guys, we really, really need to slow this down. There's too much momentum building way too fast for me to comfortable with this, and I'm worried that xyre seems to be genuinely inexperienced.
There's no rush, so let's take the time to get some more in-depth analysis here. He made the mistake of voting no lynch, and then was frightened by 3-5 consecutive attacks, and claimed slightly early. That's incriminating, but not enough to auto-lynch him.
Az, unless Im mistaken, the only thing you were voting for was a big ol no lynch.
I would agree that it is very possible that Xyre is n00bing it up, but there are some important things to consider...
a) His claim was in response to one (maybe two) votes along with me responding to n00bish actions, NOT 3-5 attacks (well, I guess 3, but still, not that much attacking)
b) He has done just about every scummy thing that someone can do (see the list of the 5 things he has done wrong)
c) Bad play should not be an acceptable excuse. Voting players who play poorly will force people to begin to play better, much like lynching liars will stop townies from lieing (I hate this argument, but it is true).
So, while I dont have any issues with talking it out, I dont think that Xyre should live through the day unless something extremely odd happens.
All that is probably good enough for a lynch but I do give him newbie credit. Regardless this post more or less sealed the deal for me:
I agree that some good discussion can be had today before a lynch I do believe that Xyre is today's lynch, eventully at least.
This reminds me very much of the imhungry situation in blind mafia: silly, but not scum. The errors he's made are damaging to him alone, they haven't done much of anything to harm the town. Yes, following the no lynch plan would have been "special", but for anyone to suggest a no lynch at this stage is pure inexperience, whether they're noob or scum. And the overreaction to a quickly mounting wagon is also understandable, in the context of inexperience and being shocked by a quick, hostile response to his no lynch comment.
So I'd be more inclined to leave him be for a while longer, and keep an eye or two on him. He has points against him, but the town has been reckless pushing him so close to a lynch, this quickly. I strongly suspect mafia involvement in that.
b) He has done just about every scummy thing that someone can do (see the list of the 5 things he has done wrong)
Hardly.
Let's take a look at this list:
1. Unprovoked claim
Not unprovoked, just early. He seems to have problems wrapping his head around the idea of confidential townie role information, in general. For instance, his call for a claim of generic, fictional, real.
Vanilla
This isn't even a scum tell, unless the setup doesn't allow for it. And even then, mods sometimes love to plant a single random vanilla claim in order to screw up the town. It's not a strong claim, but it's pushing it quite a bit to call it a tell.
No lynch
This is scummy.
Claim...feels wrong
This really isn't worth listing or considering, at all. Blind intuition usually favors lynching poor players, but not necessarily mafia.
Overdefensive
I disagree. He's been under assault from all sides, and become subject to a very quickly developing bandwagon. A vigorous defense is warranted in such a situation.
And as for committing every scum tell in the book, he's still missing OMGUS voting, bandwagoning, fishing for modkills, fishing for power roles, avoiding responsibility, and a whole host of other mistakes. Very little I've seen from him has actually posed a threat to us.
Quote from sgdre »
c) Bad play should not be an acceptable excuse. Voting players who play poorly will force people to begin to play better, much like lynching liars will stop townies from lieing (I hate this argument, but it is true).
Bad play is not an excuse for scummy actions, but bad play in itself is also not a reason to lynch. Also, trying to "teach people a lesson" is a sure-fire path for a townie loss. If the town wastes its lynches on townies, even poor ones, they will lose.
Wow, I used 4 parentheses in 3 points (I = teh c00l)
Please do not spam. Fadeblue and/or Armlx will ask you not to do it again. Do not spam again.
This reminds me very much of the imhungry situation in blind mafia: silly, but not scum. The errors he's made are damaging to him alone, they haven't done much of anything to harm the town.
Had any of the other newer players in the game followed him then it would have been. You go on to say:
Yes, following the no lynch plan would have been "special", but for anyone to suggest a no lynch at this stage is pure inexperience, whether they're noob or scum.
Which is indeed true however it is more likely scum would propose it than not. Also that is not the more scummy action, in my opinion, as I said above. You say he has done no harm yet people giving the role information he asked for would have done the the town damage.
And the overreaction to a quickly mounting wagon is also understandable, in the context of inexperience and being shocked by a quick, hostile response to his no lynch comment.
Yes, maybe, but was it that harsh and quick? I think he should have known better than claim just due to what had came on him.
So I'd be more inclined to leave him be for a while longer, and keep an eye or two on him. He has points against him, but the town has been reckless pushing him so close to a lynch, this quickly. I strongly suspect mafia involvement in that.
I doubt that he will do anything more. In my opinion he will probably start lurking for a while now. I mean what more can he do that is scummy? Inexpirence is one thing however this is just....bad. I mean even if he is town right now he is working alot more in favor of the mafia than the town. Do we want him even if he is town? And he is nott hat close to a lynch, he still needs a few votes. A smart mafia would not put all their votes now, they might put two to wagon it and then two more to end it later. I doubt you will find scum in those who voted for him.
Also do we have any other targets worth pursueing right now. Puzzle, maybe? His unexplained Ikerr crusade possibly? Where should we go if we do not lynch Xyre. Also if we do lynch Xyre I do not think Az looks good in light of his last post. I know it is only one post but if they were both scum then I could very well see Az make that post to stop the bleeding. Frankly I think it will work well wither Az is or is not scum.
Wise words Az. I had been thinking similar thoughts, but I am worried about what the game turns into if we leave Xyre alive (him getting accused every day). Also, I am worried about discussion lessening in response to long game days. I already have to refresh several times to get some new material to read!
O well, where to look now? I assume we should take a glance at people who joined towards the middle of the wagon?
Actually, I think Xyre's claim is relatively solid: at least, I think it would make sense.
Calling for no lynch, however, is such a scummy activity that it cannot be overlooked.
What is the strange attraction of the no lynch that causes so much early game trouble? How many newer players have fallen victim to it's deceptive allure?
At this point in the game Xyre strikes me as a newer player who has either paniced and claimed early or a newer player who tried an ill-concieved plan of some kind. A mafia member could have made a mistake like that but he has acted since his claim more like a cornered townie then a cornered mafia.
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Had any of the other newer players in the game followed him then it would have been. You go on to say:
Sure. But they didn't.
Quote from Sorryguy »
Which is indeed true however it is more likely scum would propose it than not. Also that is not the more scummy action, in my opinion, as I said above. You say he has done no harm yet people giving the role information he asked for would have done the the town damage.
This is true. That's part of why he's suspicious. But there are also mitigating circumstances involved.
Quote from Sorryguy »
Yes, maybe, but was it that harsh and quick? I think he should have known better than claim just due to what had came on him.
Obviously, he didn't. From his perspective, absolute submission and compliance with the town would be his best option of defusing the situation. Of course, being inexperienced, he would fail to realize that this would only make his situation worse, otherwise he would have acted differently.
This proves he was attempting to save his own neck, but not much more than that, given the role he claimed.
Quote from Sorryguy »
I doubt that he will do anything more. In my opinion he will probably start lurking for a while now. I mean what more can he do that is scummy? Inexpirence is one thing however this is just....bad. I mean even if he is town right now he is working alot more in favor of the mafia than the town. Do we want him even if he is town? And he is nott hat close to a lynch, he still needs a few votes. A smart mafia would not put all their votes now, they might put two to wagon it and then two more to end it later. I doubt you will find scum in those who voted for him.
A vote isn't all that's required to push a wagon. Sometimes silence or FOSes do just fine.
Quote from Sorryguy »
Also do we have any other targets worth pursueing right now. Puzzle, maybe? His unexplained Ikerr crusade possibly? Where should we go if we do not lynch Xyre. Also if we do lynch Xyre I do not think Az looks good in light of his last post. I know it is only one post but if they were both scum then I could very well see Az make that post to stop the bleeding. Frankly I think it will work well wither Az is or is not scum.
So um....okay one of my longer posts.
Sure we do. Those who have been the driving force behind this wagon.
I like the way you call my motives into question, though.
Not unprovoked, just early. He seems to have problems wrapping his head around the idea of confidential townie role information, in general. For instance, his call for a claim of generic, fictional, real.
I think it is more likely that in his first mafia game he was town, made an early claim, and believed to be town. I think he thoguht it would work again here as mafia and tryed it. I think he does not have issue and it is just his straegy. Also I hope he explaisn the real/generic/fictional thing. That is what is really annoying me
This isn't even a scum tell, unless the setup doesn't allow for it. And even then, mods sometimes love to plant a single random vanilla claim in order to screw up the town. It's not a strong claim, but it's pushing it quite a bit to call it a tell.
Okay it is not a tell but it is not a good sign either. Also he is right in saying that this game does not have to be like Random number one and a random vanilla player may make sense as it is random mafia I just do not see it.
This is scummy.
Indeed.
This really isn't worth listing or considering, at all. Blind intuition usually favors lynching poor players, but not necessarily mafia.
Really I think this should not even be on the list. It is just one player's justifaction and that is what it is. I also have a bad feeling for the claim but eh. Also your reasoning breaks down here. His Intution has to do with if something is a lie or not. Poor town players do not lie. Did that make sense?
I disagree. He's been under assault from all sides, and become subject to a very quickly developing bandwagon. A vigorous defense is warranted in such a situation.
And as for committing every scum tell in the book, he's still missing OMGUS voting, bandwagoning, fishing for modkills, fishing for power roles, avoiding responsibility, and a whole host of other mistakes. Very little I've seen from him has actually posed a threat to us.
Agreed. I find it very possible for the guy to be town, just not as likely. Also as said above, even if he is town, I rather not have him around if he will be this reckless.
Bad play is not an excuse for scummy actions, but bad play in itself is also not a reason to lynch. Also, trying to "teach people a lesson" is a sure-fire path for a townie loss. If the town wastes its lynches on townies, even poor ones, they will lose.
You may be correct. I would try and argue the point buit there are only two players in this game who i think can do so and seeing as my name is not Axelrod or Puzzle I do not have the expirence to agree with you. At any rate I think for the future lynching bad play can help. I screwed up playing town in 8-Bit and in this game I believe my play will be much better.
Just for the record, I was typing my unvote while axel posted his response to my previous post, so i hadnt seen it. Also, while Xyre didnt OMGUS vote, he did OMGUS FOS 3 different people. Im not convinced that he is town, but I don't feel a pressing need to vote for him.
I think it is more likely that in his first mafia game he was town, made an early claim, and believed to be town. I think he thoguht it would work again here as mafia and tryed it. I think he does not have issue and it is just his straegy. Also I hope he explaisn the real/generic/fictional thing. That is what is really annoying me.
Well, problem is, townies and mafias sometimes try the same things to get out of lynches. If it worked with him as a townie in one game, it's equally possible he would try it as a townie again.
Quote from sorryguy »
Okay it is not a tell but it is not a good sign either.
Agreed.
Quote from sorryguy »
Really I think this should not even be on the list. It is just one player's justifaction and that is what it is. I also have a bad feeling for the claim but eh. Also your reasoning breaks down here. His Intution has to do with if something is a lie or not. Poor town players do not lie. Did that make sense?
Sorta. What I was trying to say is that intuition usually leads people to disbelieve poor players, and to lynch them first. We have a kind of mob instinct which pushes us to cull the weakest from among us first. The more you rely on logic instead of that, the better you can get as a player, I think.
Quote from Sorryguy »
Agreed. I find it very possible for the guy to be town, just not as likely. Also as said above, even if he is town, I rather not have him around if he will be this reckless.
Every warm townie body has value. Every wasted lynch is another step closer to defeat.
Quote from Sorryguy »
You may be correct. I would try and argue the point buit there are only two players in this game who i think can do so and seeing as my name is not Axelrod or Puzzle I do not have the expirence to agree with you. At any rate I think for the future lynching bad play can help. I screwed up playing town in 8-Bit and in this game I believe my play will be much better.
In theory, maybe it can. But our object is to win this game, not future ones. And I think he's probably learned his lesson by now, anyways.
Why did you claim so early?
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No Lynch- 2 (Xyre, Azrael)
Jobie- 1 (Hawkeye)
Xyre- 5 (Fayul, Rhinocero, Sgdre, Sorryguy, Jobie)
Chamber- 1 (Enigma)
Azrael- 1 (CropCircles)
Not Voting: Leilani, Swinkee, Silicon, Creampuffeater, MoT, Axelrod, WoLG, Ikerr, Puzzle, Chamber
20 Alive, 11 to lynch
Sending out prods to those with less then 5 posts. Leilani is the exception due to his current circumstances, but may be prodded at a later time.
Out of curiosity, how does one check to see how many posts a user has is a given thread?
/me bows to almight mod
I asked for AD to confirm. That is a reference to High School Mafia. Sorry. I have little less to say at this point.
Proud worshipper of TFE.
Other than that, the game has been complete nonsense thus far.
It really sucks to have that happen to you if you're telling the truth, because claiming vanilla is a really easy false claim for scum to make (very small to no risk of being counterclaimed), and so its sorta scummy to claim it, expecially when your role is hard to counterclaim as well. Based on flavor, I doubt that Armlx would assign someone just a completely made up, vanilla role. Although it would be random.
If you're scummy, ima attack you. If you're not scummy, I'm not. That's how you play mafia. Remember, this is my third game, I'm not actually that much more experienced than you are.
Being so defensive isn't really helping. It looks like you're trying to deflect suspicion onto Jobie and myself.
Try and defend yourself, rather than blindly attacking your attackers.
For reference, the main points against you:
Why did you vote no lynch, especially considering that if I recall correctly, someone did it - and was called out for it - in 8-bit, which you played in?
Why did you claim with so little (ie no) pressure?
If you're scummy, ima attack you. If you're not scummy, I'm not. That's how you play mafia. Remember, this is my third game, I'm not actually that much more experienced than you are.
Don't ask me why he did it, but I'm serious on this one. I know what I'm doing, and I have reasons for claiming. At the very least, this gets it out on the table, which will make me a) not a death target, because now everyone knows I'm harmless, and b) I won't be lynched. So what if my claim isn't real? THE HOST IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO MAKE THIS GAME THE SAME AS THE LAST ONE. SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE WERE NO VANILLA CHARACTERS IN THE FIRST RANDOM MAFIA DOES UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES MEAN THAT THE SAME RULES APPLY TO ARMLX, WHO IS NOT CARRION PIGEONS (pigeons hosted the first one, right?).
*end vent* Look, I understand why this looks suspicious, especially because it makes me look normal, but I have significant reasons for revealing my identity. I did the same thing in 8-bit, and that's what I do. At the very least, nobody probably remembers why you voted for me in the first place.:p
So stop attacking me for simply saying who I am. Think of it this way-that's one fewer person who could be mafia. And that's good, right?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
You are TOO scummy I was going to hold back but now I'm more convinced your not town. vote xyre. We have no insurance your town, and if you aren’t Mafia the fact that you wont be targeted at night is BAD for the town because now we could lose a power role instead of a vanilla townie.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Wish I would have seen this before posting. I feel no desire to help the mafia any further in developing false claims. Are you trying to help them out before getting lynched?
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Her, actually. I'm a female, but hey, i'm just like one of the guys IRL, so why not here too? :tongue2: and thanks for the understanding.
I agree.
Alright, so after reading the 15-ish pages of this insanity that you people call a mafia game.. [ ].....
.....I really have no clue who to vote for, if I should even vote at this point.
I DO think that Xyre [sorry if I totally mutilate your name] is a bit suspicious, 'cause who claims on day 1, ESPECIALLY when you've got no votes on you? [at least, I don't think he had any votes on him when he claimed..] Really now. No Lynch is generally a bad idea on day 1, at least from my experience.
For now, FOS: Xyre for all the reasons people have already said. [I see no reason to repeat them again, unless someone would like me to.]
I know it seems that I don't care,
but something in me does I swear.
[gaymers]
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'tar/banner by R&Doom.
You claim without provocation. You had one vote, I believe, and you claim. That's not a good move. It's as though you wanted to test a claim to see how it would go. I know the feeling, but I've only ever had it as scum.
This seems to be what you think the entire case against you is. Not true. However, a vanilla claim does not help the town. Allow me to demonstrate: 12 players, 3 mafia, 1 doc, 1 cop. One person claims vanilla, town has 11 people to sort through to find mafia, mafia has 8 people to sort through for cop and doc. If the claimer is as they say, town has only slightly greater than 1/4 chance to find scum. If claimer is scum, town has less than 1/5 chance to find scum. As there is nothing to test, this claim is easy for scum to make.
I can think of few situations where no lynch is better than a lynch: 1 mafia, 1 town, 1 sk left at end of game (prisoner's dilemma); all town is cops or copish; no lynch means instant town win. I think I had another, but I don't remember what it was. Notice that day one is not there.
This one's just gut instinct. Nothing else to say with this.
You don't seem to be taking suspicion very well. Your defense (claiming) was unecessary, and all told, you look like a pretty safe scum to me.
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That could be, but that lynch was primarily based, IIRC, on the insanity of his posts and the inability to tell what he was really saying.
I think he's at 7, but don't quote me on that.
Yes he is/was just as irrational there as he is here, pre-emptive out of the blue claim, etc. (Including his personal hate towards myself and Rhino)
@Rhino: Oh I know thay lynch had reasons, just as this one does, I'm just saying they have parallel's too.
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1. I claimed because everyone jumped on me for voting No Lynch. I didn't see any common trends, and I would prefer to wait for night to get some information. Voting No Lynch would help ensure that nothing unwanted happened during the day. I still have no suspicions, so I'm standing my ground on my vote. It's all personal preference.
2. Well, sorry, but I recieved a vanilla role. I can't claim anything else without lying.
3. Sorry again. I asked who was with me, but I didn't want to start a wagon. Azrael jumped on an invisible wagon. It doesn't look like a wagon to me-if anything, this entire trend of "Vote Xyre" is a wagon! There are two people on "No Lynch", and I trust Azrael enough to have enough judgement to choose what he wants.
4. Instincts aren't reasons. I'm going myself. If you watched 8-bit go out, you would notice that I did the same thing. It's not n00bish tendencies-it's just how I roll.
5. Personal approach to bandwagons. Sorry, but that's my action.
So I've responded to your points. I either a) have no other choice but to claim that way, b) am going of personal strategy, or c) haven't done anything at all. Keep voting, but you won't get anywhere.
Notes for individual players, except for swinkee, who already got his explanation (try reading them all, though: I make some pretty general statements throughout which may assist other people):
SorryGuy and MoT (together): You both know how this works. So why are you joining the mob mentality? You obviously don't trust me (at least SorryGuy doesn't) but you drew suspicion to yourselves in 8-bit, and you were both townies. So how about backing me up?
Magician of Thought (personally): Thank you for taking my side on this. I owe you a bottle of wine.
SorryGuy (personally): History repeats itself. Don't point fingers at me when you were in this same situation last time.
Creampuffeater: That was fast. I've already pointed out how Swinkee is incorrect, so why are you bandwagoning. You know what, just FOS Creampuffeater. You're falling for the bandwagon, so I'm thinking you have malicious intentions.
Leilani: I think you're just misinterpreting this. Again, see the explanation above.
chamber: Sheesh. You think I would start that to gain anything? How could asking for type of character help to do anything but exonerate me? Good job at proposing useful information to back up claims, by the way. You could actually TRY to pay attention to what I've done to protect myself.
Rhinocero: You're an instigator; the first rock thrown, the first angry voice that starts the riot. You get away with this too much. Try to be nicer, please.
Silicon: You're right-this is nonsense. Exactly why I'm going No Lynch.
Fayul: The persuader. Again, you don't say anything except to vote. Give me three good reasons why I need to go that HAVEN'T been refuted, and I'll listen.
Azrael: Why did you follow me, and how did you get away from falling into this abyss? I'm confused about how I'm the fallguy.
Axelrod: Sure, fine. Bandwagons are bad. So please, everyone, have a reason before you follow me. I'm not willing to be the leader of blind sheep. And thanks for making random votes on me. Next time, give me a reason.
Sgdre: Sez you. I'm going my way-I don't care what you think helps the mafia.
Jobie: Not much to say, except to review what I've said. Thanks for backing off somewhat.
Hawkeye: I've tried answering your questions. Thanks for staying away temporarily. Just try to get where I'm coming from.
CropCircle: Again, THERE IS NO REASON WHY I NEED TO BE A REAL CHARACTER! YOU'RE DRAWING CONCLUSIONS FROM A GAME WHICH WAS NOT THE SAME!
Puzzle: Not much to say, except bluffing daykills isn't working.
Okay, that's everyone from the last few pages. Please try to understand where I'm coming from. If I'm gone by tomorrow, let me say this:
To everyone voting for me: You're wrong. Sorry to say it that way, but it had to be said. I'm town, I'm vanilla, and that's how it will stand. So please back off.
If I'm gone soon, let me say, armlx, nice job with hosting. Let the chaos begin. If this is the town, then I predict a redux of 8-bit: killing townies for no reason. Good luck to everyone, although I guess the mafia won't have much trouble, considering where this is going.
*Xyre gives Magician of Thought a bottle of wine.
Xyre out.:jam:
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Heh. None of you get it. Oh well. I had fun...I guess. I'd quote armlx if I thought I'd get away with it, without being modkilled. May I, armlx? Or must I roil in the town's disbelief?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Taking a page from my book and pointing out information that shouldn't be eh? Now, if he’s Mafia he can claim a power role and try and bait one of ours into the open. Not that he couldn't have done it before, but he may not have thought of claiming a power role. And if its the first by pointing out that it was a plan you could have ruined it. (In your defense I don’t see how this could be some sort of genius plan). fos wolg
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Taking a page from my book and pointing out information that shouldn't be eh? Now, if he’s Mafia he can claim a power role and try and bait one of ours into the open. Not that he couldn't have done it before, but he may not have thought of claiming a power role. And if its the first by pointing out that it was a plan you could have ruined it. (In your defense I don’t see how this could be some sort of genius plan). fos wolg (i don't know why it is all bolded)
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Sorry, man, but I still think that the available evidence makes you look like you are scum.
I guess its something that can't be refuted except by saying yes it is vs. no it isn't.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to call them like I see them.
I'm not trying to bandwagon randomly; I'm calling you on this one because you look scummy.
I'm sorry if I'm being mean; I'm just trying to help the town out here.
I thought Az' vote was sort of a joke, looking at it.
I have stated the reason that I'm voting for you.
I agree that you being so vanilla makes your claim doubtful, but not because Armlx didn't do it; rather, because it is something that seems unlikely in this game.
More later, dinnertime.
After post #236 I think that Xyre is either really truthful about being basic, or that he is attempting to look truthful betting agaist odds that say that Armix wouldn't respond to that without him actually qouting it. Armix cannot confirm his role in the open forum, the only thing he can do is modkill Xyre if he actually quotes his role...If Xyre does quote his role and get's modkilled, regardless of what his role says, he is obv. not pro-town.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
miss read your original post to mean you thought he was trying to root out Mafia, or was a power role.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
I see now. I miss read your original post to mean you thought he was trying to rout out Mafia, or was a power role.
(Didn't copy whole post from word after I used spell check.)
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
[Is confused]Tenative vote of confidence? Posting on what behavior?(Yeah, working a 7 hour shift is Tech! {Would you like to add chips and a drink to make that a fresh value meal?})
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
As for helping you because I also screwed up in the last game I played, why would I do that? Even though I was town I had even said I would have voted for me had I been in your guy's situation. I screwed up and deserved a lynch. You do too. If anything I incourage doing so now.
Also as a wanring to I have been getting this game confused with High School for two reasons:
Similiar Player Base
And the fact I can not say what I want about that game because I dead and currently we kind of hae similiar situations.
So sorry if I post anything screwed up. With that, XYre, would you like to sell out any of your scum pals as you die?
Calling for no lynch, however, is such a scummy activity that it cannot be overlooked.
There's no rush, so let's take the time to get some more in-depth analysis here. He made the mistake of voting no lynch, and then was frightened by 3-5 consecutive attacks, and claimed slightly early. That's incriminating, but not enough to auto-lynch him.
All that is probably good enough for a lynch but I do give him newbie credit. Regardless this post more or less sealed the deal for me:
I agree that some good discussion can be had today before a lynch I do believe that Xyre is today's lynch, eventully at least.
Az, unless Im mistaken, the only thing you were voting for was a big ol no lynch.
I would agree that it is very possible that Xyre is n00bing it up, but there are some important things to consider...
a) His claim was in response to one (maybe two) votes along with me responding to n00bish actions, NOT 3-5 attacks (well, I guess 3, but still, not that much attacking)
b) He has done just about every scummy thing that someone can do (see the list of the 5 things he has done wrong)
c) Bad play should not be an acceptable excuse. Voting players who play poorly will force people to begin to play better, much like lynching liars will stop townies from lieing (I hate this argument, but it is true).
So, while I dont have any issues with talking it out, I dont think that Xyre should live through the day unless something extremely odd happens.
This reminds me very much of the imhungry situation in blind mafia: silly, but not scum. The errors he's made are damaging to him alone, they haven't done much of anything to harm the town. Yes, following the no lynch plan would have been "special", but for anyone to suggest a no lynch at this stage is pure inexperience, whether they're noob or scum. And the overreaction to a quickly mounting wagon is also understandable, in the context of inexperience and being shocked by a quick, hostile response to his no lynch comment.
So I'd be more inclined to leave him be for a while longer, and keep an eye or two on him. He has points against him, but the town has been reckless pushing him so close to a lynch, this quickly. I strongly suspect mafia involvement in that.
Hardly.
Let's take a look at this list:
Not unprovoked, just early. He seems to have problems wrapping his head around the idea of confidential townie role information, in general. For instance, his call for a claim of generic, fictional, real.
This isn't even a scum tell, unless the setup doesn't allow for it. And even then, mods sometimes love to plant a single random vanilla claim in order to screw up the town. It's not a strong claim, but it's pushing it quite a bit to call it a tell.
This is scummy.
This really isn't worth listing or considering, at all. Blind intuition usually favors lynching poor players, but not necessarily mafia.
I disagree. He's been under assault from all sides, and become subject to a very quickly developing bandwagon. A vigorous defense is warranted in such a situation.
And as for committing every scum tell in the book, he's still missing OMGUS voting, bandwagoning, fishing for modkills, fishing for power roles, avoiding responsibility, and a whole host of other mistakes. Very little I've seen from him has actually posed a threat to us.
Bad play is not an excuse for scummy actions, but bad play in itself is also not a reason to lynch. Also, trying to "teach people a lesson" is a sure-fire path for a townie loss. If the town wastes its lynches on townies, even poor ones, they will lose.
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Had any of the other newer players in the game followed him then it would have been. You go on to say:
Which is indeed true however it is more likely scum would propose it than not. Also that is not the more scummy action, in my opinion, as I said above. You say he has done no harm yet people giving the role information he asked for would have done the the town damage.
Yes, maybe, but was it that harsh and quick? I think he should have known better than claim just due to what had came on him.
I doubt that he will do anything more. In my opinion he will probably start lurking for a while now. I mean what more can he do that is scummy? Inexpirence is one thing however this is just....bad. I mean even if he is town right now he is working alot more in favor of the mafia than the town. Do we want him even if he is town? And he is nott hat close to a lynch, he still needs a few votes. A smart mafia would not put all their votes now, they might put two to wagon it and then two more to end it later. I doubt you will find scum in those who voted for him.
Also do we have any other targets worth pursueing right now. Puzzle, maybe? His unexplained Ikerr crusade possibly? Where should we go if we do not lynch Xyre. Also if we do lynch Xyre I do not think Az looks good in light of his last post. I know it is only one post but if they were both scum then I could very well see Az make that post to stop the bleeding. Frankly I think it will work well wither Az is or is not scum.
So um....okay one of my longer posts.
Wise words Az. I had been thinking similar thoughts, but I am worried about what the game turns into if we leave Xyre alive (him getting accused every day). Also, I am worried about discussion lessening in response to long game days. I already have to refresh several times to get some new material to read!
O well, where to look now? I assume we should take a glance at people who joined towards the middle of the wagon?
What is the strange attraction of the no lynch that causes so much early game trouble? How many newer players have fallen victim to it's deceptive allure?
At this point in the game Xyre strikes me as a newer player who has either paniced and claimed early or a newer player who tried an ill-concieved plan of some kind. A mafia member could have made a mistake like that but he has acted since his claim more like a cornered townie then a cornered mafia.
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Sure. But they didn't.
This is true. That's part of why he's suspicious. But there are also mitigating circumstances involved.
Obviously, he didn't. From his perspective, absolute submission and compliance with the town would be his best option of defusing the situation. Of course, being inexperienced, he would fail to realize that this would only make his situation worse, otherwise he would have acted differently.
This proves he was attempting to save his own neck, but not much more than that, given the role he claimed.
A vote isn't all that's required to push a wagon. Sometimes silence or FOSes do just fine.
Sure we do. Those who have been the driving force behind this wagon.
I like the way you call my motives into question, though.
I think it is more likely that in his first mafia game he was town, made an early claim, and believed to be town. I think he thoguht it would work again here as mafia and tryed it. I think he does not have issue and it is just his straegy. Also I hope he explaisn the real/generic/fictional thing. That is what is really annoying me
Okay it is not a tell but it is not a good sign either. Also he is right in saying that this game does not have to be like Random number one and a random vanilla player may make sense as it is random mafia I just do not see it.
Indeed.
Really I think this should not even be on the list. It is just one player's justifaction and that is what it is. I also have a bad feeling for the claim but eh. Also your reasoning breaks down here. His Intution has to do with if something is a lie or not. Poor town players do not lie. Did that make sense?
I disagree. He's been under assault from all sides, and become subject to a very quickly developing bandwagon. A vigorous defense is warranted in such a situation.
Agreed. I find it very possible for the guy to be town, just not as likely. Also as said above, even if he is town, I rather not have him around if he will be this reckless.
You may be correct. I would try and argue the point buit there are only two players in this game who i think can do so and seeing as my name is not Axelrod or Puzzle I do not have the expirence to agree with you. At any rate I think for the future lynching bad play can help. I screwed up playing town in 8-Bit and in this game I believe my play will be much better.
Well, problem is, townies and mafias sometimes try the same things to get out of lynches. If it worked with him as a townie in one game, it's equally possible he would try it as a townie again.
Agreed.
Sorta. What I was trying to say is that intuition usually leads people to disbelieve poor players, and to lynch them first. We have a kind of mob instinct which pushes us to cull the weakest from among us first. The more you rely on logic instead of that, the better you can get as a player, I think.
Every warm townie body has value. Every wasted lynch is another step closer to defeat.
In theory, maybe it can. But our object is to win this game, not future ones. And I think he's probably learned his lesson by now, anyways.